Wednesday’s Forum

James Joyner
About James Joyner
James Joyner is Professor and Department Head of Security Studies at Marine Corps University's Command and Staff College. He's a former Army officer and Desert Storm veteran. Views expressed here are his own. Follow James on Twitter @DrJJoyner.


  1. CSK says:

    We were wondering what would become of the members of Trump’s White House coterie. Kayleigh McEnany is going to work for Fox as a commentator. Here’s what some of the rest are doing:

  2. CSK says:

    The Capitol Police say they’ve received “troubling intelligence” about QAnoners planning to descend on Washington, D.C. tomorrow to mark the alleged inauguration of Donald Trump, when he’ll return to wipe out the Satanic cult of cannibalistic pedophile globalists.

  3. Liberal Capitalist says:


    … return to wipe out the Satanic cult of cannibalistic pedophile globalists.

    And I can absolutely stand behind this initiative. After all, who would oppose that?

    If it were a thing. But it’s not.


  4. They are going to be greeted by the National Guard if they do

  5. CSK says:

    @Liberal Capitalist:
    I could be wrong, but this whole thing will probably fizzle. They were badly mistaken about Trump remaining in power and declaring martial law on January 20, and they won’t want to make fools of themselves again when Trump doesn’t show up to be inaugurated tomorrow. I also think they were alarmed by the numbers of their co-conspiratists who were arrested after January 6. That wasn’t supposed to happen to them.

    Beefing up security is a good idea, though. A small number of very violent freaks could cause some problems.

  6. Jim Brown 32 says:

    @CSK: The true believers wont be deterred. They need this narrative to be true for there psychology

  7. Kathy says:


    Do we get to the part of the movie when disillusioned fanatics turn on their savior when he disappoints them once too many times?

  8. charon says:

    Old news by now, but a good rundown:

    The use of this particular form of this rune, the “serifed” odal, originated in a Nazi Schutzstaffel (S.S.) unit’s flag; the odal rune was meant to assert the unit’s ethnic German identity while stationed abroad in Yugoslavia during World War II. It was based on the standard flag of the Nazi Party, substituting the odal rune for the swastika. The serifed “odal,” is part of the distinctive iconography of the Nazis and their supporters, although non-serif versions of the rune have appeared in far-right contexts as well. This volkisch interpretation of the odal rune has spread among the far-right internationally as a symbol of white power, and white supremacy.

    Just two weeks ago, the Army special operations center at Fort Bragg warned personnel about extremist imagery, including the odal rune, reflecting its rising prominence among the far-right. It is hardly an unknown symbol to those familiar with the far right – which should certainly include CPAC’s organizers and guests, many of whom were only weeks ago in charge of federal law enforcement in the United States.

    Like “very fine people on both sides,” like “stand back and stand by,” like “you’ll never take back our country with weakness,” the question of whether a statement or an image was intended to attract the far right is almost beside the point. These supposed coincidences and gaffes continue happening, and the far-right keeps interpreting them as signals rather than noise.

    The so-called mainstream conservatives of CPAC seem just fine with that.

    Some photos included at the link.

  9. Pete S says:

    @Kathy: I know you aren’t being serious. But if they suffer any disillusionment at all, they can probably be convinced that Trump’s failure to take over again is their fault and if they just send more money and believe a little harder it will work out in the end.

  10. CSK says:

    @Jim Brown 32:
    Oh, there will no doubt be a core of fanatics who’ll simply pick anther date for the triumphal return of Trump, just as the Millerites had to do when Christ didn’t return on the day predicted.

    I’d love to see that.

  11. Jim Brown 32 says:

    @Kathy: No–I scrolled past many of my Trumpie FB friends’ memes this election cycle–and they all frame the narrative that Trump is only ONE MAN against an entire global cabal. Its a built in excuse for failure.

    Their anger will be at the people who aren’t helping him fight.

  12. Jim Brown 32 says:
  13. CSK says:

    @Jim Brown 32:
    Wait a minute. Isn’t John F. Kennedy Jr., who for reasons unbeknownst to me faked his death 22 years ago, helping Trump in this heroic endeavor?

  14. Jim Brown 32 says:

    @CSK: Well he was a Democrat and even though he’s now on the Q side–it’s Lib help.

    He makes Trump warm chamomile tea (sometimes Chai depending on how Trump’s round of golf went that day), and reads him a nice book at story time. Sometimes–if Melania doesn’t go all bitchy–he even gets to tuck Donnie in.

    Libs aren’t to good at actual fighting like Trump doncha know.

  15. Kathy says:

    @Pete S:

    Serious? I hope the Secret Service is up on what to do with obsessed fans who make stalking the object of their devotion their sole goal in life.

  16. wr says:

    @CSK: “they won’t want to make fools of themselves again when Trump doesn’t show up to be inaugurated tomorrow. ”

    Really? I get the feeling there’s nothing they like better…

  17. wr says:

    @Jim Brown 32: “depending on how Trump’s round of golf went that day”

    What the hell do you mean by that??? Are you suggesting that there are some days that Trump’s golf game is less than perfect???? We’re talking Trump, man, Trump!!!! The greatest golfer ever, the golfer Jesus sent down to show us the way!!!

  18. CSK says:

    I don’t know. If people are openly laughing at them the way they are at the Qanon Shaman, that could be off-putting.

    Jenna Ryan, that Dallas realtor who was busted for storming that Capitol, feels very hurt and betrayed that Trump didn’t pardon her. He was supposed to do that, dammit!

  19. CSK says:

    @Jim Brown 32: @wr:

    JFK Jr., through the judicious application of filler and plastic surgery, has disguised himself as a fellow named Vincent Fusca, a Trump superfan residing in Pittsburgh. Look it up, if you wish.

  20. Vaccine update: my wife and I got our second dose of Pfizer yesterday (Alabama is vaccinating educators) and while she only has a sore arm, I feel like I have a mild flu and am super-achy.

    But, the important part is: vaccinated!

    (And there has been a steady increase of vaccine opportunities rolling out).

  21. Kathy says:

    Yesterday evening, the hematologist finally sent me his medical report. Hopefully now the insurance company will approve the PET CT, the Beta 2 blood test, and the doctor’s fees for two visits.

    Regardless, I’ll be calling the surgeon today to see when we can schedule surgery.

    I’ll be taking my laptop along to the hospital. Hopefully I’ll be in shape to post then.

  22. Scott says:

    @Kathy: It would be great if cannibalism was involved.

  23. CSK says:

    @Steven L. Taylor:
    I think the way people react to the shots (any shots) is largely a function of personal body chemistry. Years ago, flu shots bothered me to the extent that I felt very slightly tired and grumpy the following day. Now they don’t bother me at all, nor did the pneumonia vaccine. I haven’t had the Covid shot yet, but my sister reported absolutely no side effects from her first dose of Pfizer.

    Glad you and your wife have had the full course of treatment.

  24. Kathy says:


    You gain the essence of a person if you consume their flesh. Many people say that.

  25. Mister Bluster says:

    When I went under the knife for intestinal surgery in 2008 I was advised not to bring my laptop as the hospital could not be responsible if it vanished while I was there for 7 days. The same applied to the only cell phone I was using then. Since the phone belonged to my employer, Verizon Communications (not Verizon Wireless), I took a chance and brought it. The phone survived the hospital stay, as did I.
    Good luck.

  26. James Joyner says:

    @Steven L. Taylor: I got my first Moderna shot this morning through DoD, since they’ve decided that those delivering in-person instruction are “essential.” So far, so god, but I’m only 90 minutes in.

  27. Kathy says:

    @Mister Bluster:

    Then I should bring the work laptop 😉

    I am bringing the phone. One cannot live in the modern world without a phone.

  28. CSK says:

    @Mister Bluster:
    When I had to be hospitalized in June 2019 (double pneumonia), the doctor offered to call an ambulance. I said, “No, I have to go home and get my laptop and some books.” She replied, “I don’t blame you.” I left the hospital after 4 days with my laptop and books.

  29. CSK says:

    @Doug Mataconis:
    Then they better make damned sure they have more than enough Moderna and Pfizer to meet the needs of the parish.

  30. DrDaveT says:

    @Doug Mataconis:

    This will end up killing people

    The “right to life” always does.

  31. Michael Cain says:

    @James Joyner: Seemingly out of nowhere I got e-mail from Kaiser this morning, and they let me schedule my first jab for next Monday. I have to drive an hour to get to the clinic where Monday appointments were available, but I have other business near there that I can also take care of. As of yesterday morning I was still 16-thousandth and some in their queue, so it was a bit of a surprise.

  32. Jim Brown 32 says:

    @wr: Some days the margin of victory isn’t what it should be. Obviously Trump shoots 54 every round–but it feels like losing when the competition occasionally breaks 100. Those are Chai tea days–lololololololololol

  33. MarkedMan says:

    @Doug Mataconis: Perhaps not as many as you would fear. I was raised a Catholic and served my 12 years in Catholic schools and can tell you that the number of Catholics who look to the Bishops or even the priests for moral advice is a very, very small percentage.

  34. Jen says:

    @Doug Mataconis: It’s insanely irresponsible for the Diocese to issue that statement, and it appears to run counter to the Vatican’s directive on this topic.

    There’s already an issue with people thinking the J&J vaccination is not good enough, and some people are even saying they want to “hold off” on getting vaccinated until one of the more effective (Pfizer or Moderna) is available. To heap this nonsense into it is just unreal.

  35. Monala says:

    @Kathy: wishing you well!

  36. Kylopod says:

    @Scott: Well there’s one political commentator who has actually threatened to engage in cannibalism, and he ain’t a Deep Stater.

  37. Stormy Dragon says:

    @Steven L. Taylor:

    Vaccine update: a work a job that involves computers which, for legal reasons, aren’t allowed to be hooked up to the public internet, which means I have had to continue going to work in person through the entire pandemic.

    However, since I don’t interface with the public, I’m in phase 1c and it will probably be months before I can get a vaccine. However, I get to see all the retired boomers around me bragging about their vaccines when they could all easily just stay home as long as necessary, and I’m starting to get pissed that their boredom is considered a higher priority than my safety.

  38. Mister Bluster says:

    @Kathy:..…the work laptop
    I had a work laptop but it would only connect to Verizon Communications’ Local Area Network that was not available at the hospital. It was also junk. Ran some stone age Windows OS. I spent 20-30 minutes almost every morning downloading security patches. Ha!
    One day as I attempted to load job tickets a yellow smiley face popped up on the screen. It proceded to laugh itself from left to right across the black background and disappear in a poof of animated smoke and that was the end of that PC. Had to open and close out my work tickets and turn in my time over the telephone for several days waiting for another PC.

  39. CSK says:

    This is the outfit that designed the CPAC stage:

  40. Scott says:

    @Stormy Dragon: I hear you. I’m vaccinated (because I’m 66), work at home, etc. My wife is a elementary school counselor (age 55) and has been in person since last Aug 4th. Would’ve readily given my shots to her.

  41. Scott says:

    @Kylopod: Well, for Alex Jones, that would be just one serving.

  42. Democrats need to recognize that the filibuster is not going to be eliminated and figure out how to govern based on that fact.

  43. gVOR08 says:

    @Doug Mataconis: I see reporting that the Ds will go for reconciliation for their infrastructure bill. That seems to me to be bad politics. Infrastructure spending polls around 75%. It should be possible to get 10 Rs to vote for it. Otherwise it’s a good bill to call their bluff on bipartisanship. “We’re trying to be bipartisan, and see, even on something so clearly necessary as roads and bridges we’re getting no cooperation.” We desperately need infrastructure improvements, but it’s not something like extending unemployment where delaying a few months, or a year, is unacceptable. We got through the last four years without infrastructure spending, even though every other week seemed to be Infrastructure Week.

    Save reconciliation for something like the minimum wage.

  44. CSK says:

    Delete. The comment to which I was replying vanished.

  45. Kylopod says:

    @Doug Mataconis:

    Democrats need to recognize that the filibuster is not going to be eliminated and figure out how to govern based on that fact.

    Political commentators need to recognize (if they don’t already) that as long as the filibuster remains, the only substantial legislation will be passed through reconciliation, and that the only chance of changing this situation is by ending the filibuster, which is a matter of when, not if.

  46. Stormy Dragon says:

    @Doug Mataconis:

    Typical Republican: sets the building on fire and then complain the Democrats aren’t putting it out quickly enough.

  47. @gVOR08:

    Reconciliation can’t be used for the minimum wage

  48. inhumans99 says:

    @Doug Mataconis:

    It is precisely because the lockdown of D.C. again on the 4th was broadcast well in advance that I feel that tomorrow will be just another ordinary day in the Capitol.

    Of course, if nothing happens then the MAGA crowd will accuse Biden of creating a tempest in a teapot by assuming their would be violence. However, Democrats are basically dammed if they do and dammed if they don’t by the MAGA crowd, if they did not lockdown the Capitol on the 4th and violence happened folks would be screaming at Biden that he should have done a better job providing security for folks in the Capitol, and if tomorrow is just another bog-standard ordinary day in D.C. than folks will go on Fox to chastise Biden for “overreacting” to any perceived threats or expectations of violence from the MAGA crowd.

    Such is life, and of course it is much better to be prepared for violence that never happens than to get caught with your shorts around your ankles.

  49. Kathy says:

    @Doug Mataconis:

    Lots easier to figure out how not to govern, The Republicans have refined that to a fine art.

  50. Stormy Dragon says:

    @Doug Mataconis:

    Reconciliation can’t be used for the minimum wage

    CBO says otherwise. Only person saying it can’t is a Senate Parliamentarian who mysteriously had no problem the GOP doing things like approving oil drilling via reconciliation.

  51. Jax says:

    Sigh…..I really thought before the Trump era that maybe we were making progress, but we seem to be regressing back to barefoot and pregnant, instead.

  52. @Stormy Dragon:

    There are at least two Senate Democrats who oppose this, Manchin and Sinema

  53. MarkedMan says:

    @Stormy Dragon: After I got my shot, I realized this whole vaccine thing was a mixed blessing. I’ve only traveled once since the whole thing started, to a customer that made N95 masks. When I got there I realized there was no state mask requirement and further, the fricking plant was a mask optional plant! I vowed not to travel to any state that had that kind of “We don’t believe in science because.. LIBERALS!” attitude and have made it clear that I wouldn’t ask any of my staff to do the same.” But now that I’ve got my first stick with the second one in just two weeks, I realize that I may be able to travel in less than two months. What if there is a plant in Iowa that needs help? Do I really want to go to a state that is obviously little more than a suicide pact?!

  54. MarkedMan says:

    @gVOR08: They should use reconciliation for everything they possibly can. The very concept of honoring the filibuster where they don’t have to is moronic at this point, since it has moved so very far from its original intent.

    And I’m pretty sure no one will give a single sh*t that Dems “called their bluff on bipartisanship”? Republicans have a long, long history of voting against something and then going back home and campaigning on its benefits when it actually passes. This is the part of lies, the party of nihilism. There is no recipient for any lesson that we would wish them to learn.

  55. MarkedMan says:

    @inhumans99: I agree about significant demonstrations tomorrow. What I’m more concerned about is that we are quickly moving into Timothy McVeigh territory, with the Republicans playing footsie with the domestic terrorists and encouraging them, so they sneak off and build bombs to murder innocents.

    We should have put bullets in the heads of the armed thugs storming the statehouses. We’ve let them get away with too much for too long.

  56. wr says:

    @Steven L. Taylor: “But, the important part is: vaccinated!”

    Road Trip!!!!

  57. Kathy says:


    You shouldn’t travel even after vaccination. Remember it’s still a statistical proposition. Your odds of getting COVID are very low, the odds of getting anything more than a mild case are lower, and the odds of winding up in the hospital are microscopic. But if you do catch it, and even remain asymptomatic, you can still spread it.

    So don’t travel where contagion is more likely.

    Once a sizable percentage of the population gets the vaccine, we should see transmission go way down. When that happens, then it’s safe to travel, perhaps even if you’ve yet to be vaccinated.

    BTW, the wealthy countries better get their act together and do everything possible to get vaccines to poorer countries ASAP. the longer the rest of the world takes to vaccinate everyone, the more variants can arise. That makes the odds of the next pandemic being a SARS-CoV-2 variant rather large.

    This things ins’t SARS, or MERS, or H1N1, or even Ebola. It’s much worse. Maybe vaccines that work against the variants will take far less time to develop, but they still need to be trialed, and that takes months at best. maybe the current vaccine will prove protective in part against new variants, but then again maybe not. Maybe we don’t want to find out by persona experience again.

  58. Jax says:

    @wr: You better bring a camera crew if that happens. 😉

  59. a country lawyer says:

    @Steven L. Taylor: Congratulations, Steven. I got my second Pfizer shot Monday. My wife gets hers next week.

  60. CSK says:

    @a country lawyer:
    Any side effects? I ask only because there seems to be so much fear-mongering about the possibility.

  61. Michael Reynolds says:

    Remake of Grumpy Old Men?

  62. MarkedMan says:

    @Kathy: I hear you, and won’t travel for trivial reasons. But our customers are the plants that make things like N95 masks as well as pharmaceuticals. We have to keep them operational and they have added every last ounce of capacity. As an out of touch director I’m not the first choice, but on the other hand I’ve got only one other person who can interact well with plants. (Don’t get me started on the dangers of letting your typical design engineer spent a lot of unsupervised time with customers

  63. Scott says:

    @CSK: I think it is highly individualized. Had my second shot last Thursday. Nothing. Others had much larger reaction. So the answer is: maybe

  64. CSK says:

    Yes; that’s what I was saying early. It all depends on individual body chemistry and one’s own psychology. There are people who are injection-phobic, and they may be more bothered. And there are a few people who like to dramatize their experiences.

  65. inhumans99 says:


    And if that is the direction the GOP really wants most of the women in the country to go in they better get to work enacting that plan of Romney’s where he would have the Government send all adults in this country with children as a dependent a monthly check so they could choose to work or just stay home and take care of the ankle-biters.

    Enacting Romney’s plan would also help reverse the Baby Bust that Doug M mentioned upthread, if a woman could stay home to take care of kids and not have to go out and work 2 or 3 jobs it would be an incentive for folks to create or extend the size of their family.

    I am not really being flip with my post, if the GOP wants to turn back the clock to what they feel were the “idyllic” 50s where the woman stayed home and the man was the only household member who needed to work to keep the bills and mortgage/rent paid, well…they better come up with a UBI payment for adults with kids in this country because in most households one breadwinner is not going to cut it when it comes to paying the bills and keeping a roof over your head.

  66. Kathy says:


    Yes, but not to trump states.

  67. Kathy says:

    I got a surgery date for March 10th.

    It strikes me as a bit absurd that I first went to see a doctor about this on January 21st. It will be 48 days between initial diagnosis and surgery.

    I look back and wonder where the time went. Partly the detour with the PET CT, which ate up a whole ten days. Partly I hesitated here and there; I blame that on too much work. Partly waiting for medical reports and answers from the insurance company.

  68. Jen says:

    @CSK: Side effects seem to vary dramatically based on the individual. Anecdotally, I’ve heard from friends/family that have had both shots and:

    80 y.o. MIL: no issues with either shot.
    Cousin’s 41 y.o. husband (essential health care worker): flat on his back in bed for 48 hours after the second shot (he’s fine now).
    83 y.o. Father: mild soreness with first shot along with some tiredness, second shot felt like hot garbage the next day but fine after that.

    I do PR work for two facilities that provide health care services, and the second shot so routinely made people feel under the weather that one of the places just instituted a day off after the second dose if you wanted/needed it.

  69. Mikey says:

    Elie Mystal

    * Dems win power.
    * Moderate Dems refuse to let Dems use power.
    * Dems lose power.
    * Moderate Dems blame progressives for being too radical.
    * ad infinitum

    We are at step 2 of the cycle.

  70. CSK says:

    Yes; I suspected as much. The examples you provide really do illuminate the stark differences between people’s reactions. I’ve heard the second shot of Moderna is the worst.

    My sister works for an education foundation, and they’ve instituted a day-after policy similar to the one you describe.

  71. CSK says:

    I’m glad it’s settled. Everyone here is wishing you well. I’m sure it will go fine.

  72. CSK says:

    Biden said today that Texas and Mississippi officials were engaging in “Neanderthal thinking” by reopening businesses to 100% capacity and lifting the mask requirements. While I agree with the sentiment, describing people as cavemen is probably not the best way to win their hearts and minds.

    It sounds like something Trump would say–if he knew the word Neanderthal, which I’m pretty sure he doesn’t. And yes, I know the Neanderthals were quite a bit more intelligent than we give them credit for being. Still, most people will take that as a gross insult.

  73. Just nutha ignint cracker says:

    @Doug Mataconis: @DrDaveT: These people are their own moral agents. I have no objection to their choice to not be vaccinated. They should continue to shelter in place until the epidemic is declared over, though. It’s the only moral choice available, and I hope the Archbishop is telling them THAT, too.

  74. Kathy says:


    Still, most people will take that as a gross insult.

    It is a gross insult.. to the Neanderthals.

  75. Just nutha ignint cracker says:

    @Doug Mataconis: The link title already explains how Democrats will govern with the filibuster in place: “Senate will be graveyard for Biden agenda.”

  76. Kathy says:



    You know what makes me nervous, though? Procedures.

    When I fly, I commonly run across people who have not the first idea of where to go, or what to do when they get there. I’m going to be one of those at the hospital.

  77. Just nutha ignint cracker says:

    @gVOR08: It would be nice to believe that such a message would resonate, but I experience too many “conservatives” who are willing to forego improvements to even their personal situations as long as it stymies Democrats in accomplishing things. People who vote Republican seem willing to vote against bipartisan cooperation even though the gridlock disrupts them. “Cut of your nose to spite your face.”

  78. Just nutha ignint cracker says:

    @MarkedMan: Serious question: if N95 masks are being manufactured in a non mask facility to what degree is it safe to market those masks compared to the degree that they may represent disease vectors?

  79. CSK says:

    Well, someone ought to be informing you where you should go, Since this will be out-patient surgery–am I correct in thinking that?–probably you should just go to the main desk and inquire there. Surely they’ll notify you of the time you have to show up at the hospital. You’e already been told what you need to do in the way of preparation, right?

  80. Just nutha ignint cracker says:

    @inhumans99: “if a woman could stay home to take care of kids and not have to go out and work 2 or 3 jobs it would be an incentive for folks to create or extend the size of their family.”

    Sure. But if people can readily earn livings without working 2 or 3 jobs, where is the next trillion dollars of value capitalization for Jeff Bezos’ enterprises going to come from? What kind of sick priorities do you have anyway? /s

    ETA: And don’t kid yourself, there were plenty of people barely making ends meet in the 50s, too. So Republicans CAN have the best of both worlds.

  81. Kathy says:


    am I correct in thinking that?

    Don’t I wish. I’m looking at two days in the hospital.

    You’e already been told what you need to do in the way of preparation, right?

    Yes, but that only makes for more complications. The admission letter mentions an ultrasound, without any details. It’s not listed in the pre-op tests. Of course I’ve asked, but email is so sloooooow some times.

    Don’t worry, though. I’ve several relatives with extensive experience in this area. I’ll ask them.

  82. Sleeping Dog says:

    Someone mentioned Romney’s child income plan, which essentially is simply giving people cash. Dems are cool to it because Mittens would do away with the EIC to pay for the program and R’s oppose it because it doesn’t punish the poor for not working and make them jump through hoops for the benefit.

    Stockton, CA has been running a small UBI experiment and the evaluation is in, surprise, surprise, UBI works and doesn’t dissuade people from working.

    Stockton’s Basic-Income Experiment Pays Off

  83. OzarkHillbilly says:

    @Doug Mataconis: Yes, 2 DEMs, and 49 GQPs. Hmmm, I detect an imbalance.

  84. CSK says:

    I know it’s worrisome for you, and that’s understandable, but things will be fine. Don’t forget to bring a few books in case the internet connection fails.

  85. OzarkHillbilly says:

    @CSK: Forget about hearts and minds. Their hearts are shriveled up prunes and their minds are gone.

  86. CSK says:

    Yes, but not so much that they aren’t capable of getting enraged at Sleepy Joe, The Usurper. In fact, rage is their animating emotion.

  87. Kathy says:


    If the internet fails, is there any point in living? 😉

  88. CSK says:

    Not in the current situation, it would seem. I’ve sunk so low as to occupy my time when I’m not reading by watching disaster movies on Youtube. And hanging out at OTB, of course.

  89. a country lawyer says:

    @CSK: None at all.

  90. @wr:

    Road Trip!!!!

    It would be epic, no doubt!

  91. @Stormy Dragon: The system is not exactly logical, I will readily allow.

    For example, in AL higher ed is included in the current round, but in GA only K-12.

    We have been back in person since June (with students coming back in Aug–masked and socially distanced, but still face-to-face) so am hoping faculty and staff are taking advantage of the various opportunities for injections that have emerged.


    My wife is a elementary school counselor (age 55) and has been in person since last Aug 4th. Would’ve readily given my shots to her.

    What state, our of curiosity?

  92. CSK says:

    @a country lawyer:
    That’s great.

  93. Stormy Dragon says:

    @Steven L. Taylor:

    Educators getting doesn’t actually bother me, since they have a need to do their jobs in person (particularly in primary schools). As I said, what rankles me is people who could easily shelter in place (retired, un-employed, etc.) getting it over people who can’t (grocery store workers, emergency services, etc.)

  94. Mikey says:

    Here’s the pointless and stupid self-own that led Elie Mystal to put up the Tweet I posted earlier:

    Moderate Democrats Strip Stimulus Checks From 12 Million Voters for No Reason

    Here are the two big downsides to this measure:

    • It means that 12 million fewer adults and 5 million fewer kids will receive relief checks from the bill. Whereas 91 percent of U.S. households would have received a check under the previous proposal, now only 86 percent will. That’s not a huge difference. But these days, elections are often won in the margins. And Joe Biden’s Electoral College win in 2020 was contingent on the support of affluent, longtime Republicans who decided to cross the aisle. Now, a bunch of these voters will end up receiving less in direct cash assistance from Joe Biden than they did from Donald Trump.

    • Since Democrats chose to narrow eligibility by accelerating the phase down in the value of the checks, they effectively engineered a confiscatory marginal tax rate for a small band of workers: A single taxpayer who earned $80,000 in 2020 will effectively pay a 70 percent tax rate on their last $5,000 of income.

    Seriously, if the purpose of sending out checks is “stimulus,” i. e. stimulating economic activity, you want them to go to MORE people, not chop 12 million off the list for some stupid and arbitrary reason to save–are you ready?–0.63% of the total package cost.

    All to make Trump and the Republicans look MORE generous than the Democrats. It makes no sense at all.

  95. MarkedMan says:

    @Mikey: Bear in mind this is exactly what the Republican right said in CA and OR, gradually driving their Party into irrelevancy.

  96. MarkedMan says:

    @Just nutha ignint cracker: Completely safe. The actual manufacturing is done in a clean environment and no human hands touch them until they are in a package. I don’t actually know that they go in to be sterilized like a medical device, but no matter what I’m certain that humans as a disease vector has been accounted for. COVID isn’t the first or the worst disease that could contaminate such products.

    Despite what Repubs would have you believe, the regulations put in place regarding quality control are there for a reason and I’ve never dealt with a medical device company that didn’t adhere to the process to the letter. The mask manufacturer I deal with the most raises all the same issues and deals with them exactly the same way as the medical device companies I’ve worked for and with in the past.

  97. Kathy says:


    It’s almost as though not observing masking and distancing in general areas merely costs them lives, but not observing cleanliness protocols in manufacturing and packaging would cost them money.

  98. Kurtz says:


    “But, the important part is: vaccinated!”

    Road Trip!!!!

    That has livestream potential.

  99. Just nutha ignint cracker says:

    @MarkedMan: The last time I believed what Republicans say about anything was… well, I can’t even remember. I was just curious because I don’t know how masks are manufactured, so if people working where the masks are made don’t wear them, that might be problematical. I do know from my experience in warehousing with exposure/allergies to mold, that people who work where boxes are stacked and don’t wear masks don’t create a danger to the people who eventually use the contents of the boxes.

  100. Thomm says:

    @Mikey: all to keep ol’ joe manchin happy. I mean…it isn’t like he is from a poor state that could use any cash help it can.

  101. Jax says:

    @Thomm: I honestly never thought I’d see the day that West Virginia decided the future path of the United States of America.

  102. @wr:

    That would make for an awesome Netflix miniseries

  103. wr says:

    @Michael Reynolds: Yes, but without the charm!

  104. Skookum says:

    @James Joyner: Had Moderna 1st dose on Tuesday. Twinges of headache, a little achiness. The big surprise were the black circles under my eyes the next day. Gone now. Probably worse reaction after 2nd dose.