Autumnal Equinox Forum

FILED UNDER: Open Forum
James Joyner
About James Joyner
James Joyner is Professor and Department Head of Security Studies at Marine Corps University's Command and Staff College and a nonresident senior fellow at the Scowcroft Center for Strategy and Security at the Atlantic Council. He's a former Army officer and Desert Storm vet. Views expressed here are his own. Follow James on Twitter @DrJJoyner.

Comments

  1. OzarkHillbilly says:

    Covid: Immune therapy from llamas shows promise

    “Spitting and biting are among the known side effects.” s//

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  2. OzarkHillbilly says:

    Reuters
    @Reuters

    Germany will stop paying compensation to unvaccinated workers who are forced into quarantine as it is unfair to ask taxpayers to subsidise those who refuse to get inoculated, Health Minister Jens Spahn said https://reut.rs/3nU1cYt

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  3. OzarkHillbilly says:

    COVID-overwhelmed hospitals in Oregon postpone cancer care and other treatment

    Charlie Callagan looked perfectly healthy sitting outside recently on his deck in the smoky summer air in the small Rogue Valley town of Merlin, in southern Oregon. But Callagan, 72, has a condition called multiple myeloma, a blood cancer of the bone marrow.
    “It affects the immune system; it affects the bones,” he said. “I had a PET scan that described my bones as looking ‘kind of Swiss cheese-like.’”
    …………………….
    A few weeks ago, Callagan was driving the nearly four-hour trek to Oregon Health & Science University in Portland for a bone marrow transplant, a major procedure that would have required him to stay in the hospital for a week and remain in the Portland area for tests for an additional two weeks. On the way, he got a call from his doctor.
    “They’re like, ‘We were told this morning that we have to cancel the surgeries we had planned,’” he said.
    Callagan’s surgery was canceled because the hospital was full. That’s the story at many hospitals in Oregon and in other states where they’ve been flooded with COVID patients.
    ………………………………..
    Such high stakes for delaying treatment at hospitals right now extends beyond cancer care.

    “I’ve seen patients get ready to have their open-heart surgery that day. I’ve seen patients have brain tumor with visual changes, or someone with lung cancer, and their procedures are canceled that day and they have to come back another day,” said Dr. Kent Dauterman, a cardiologist and co-director of the regional cardiac center in Medford, Oregon. “You always hope they come back.”

    In early September, Dauterman said, the local hospital had 28 patients who were waiting for open-heart surgery, 24 who needed pacemakers, and 22 who were awaiting lung surgeries. During normal times, he said, there is no wait.
    …………………..
    “We clearly, even in hindsight, made the right decision of curtailing elective surgery,” said Dr. Brajesh Lal, a professor of surgery at the University of Maryland School of Medicine and the study’s lead author. “But we as a society have not really emphatically asked the question ‘At what price in the long term?’” He said they won’t know that without more long-term research.

    At his home in southern Oregon, Charlie Callagan said he doesn’t consider his bone-marrow transplant as urgent as what some people are facing right now.

    “There’s so many other people who are being affected,” he said. “People are dying waiting for a hospital bed. That just angers me. It’s hard to stay quiet now.”

    He said it’s hard to be sympathetic for the COVID patients filling up hospitals, when a simple vaccine could have prevented most of those hospitalizations.

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  4. Jen says:

    @OzarkHillbilly: This is so upsetting and so very, very wrong. My heart breaks for these people and their families. JFC.

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  5. KM says:

    @OzarkHillbilly:
    This is going to end very badly at some point. Vaxxed people – hell, even unvaxxed people – are getting pissed their loved ones are dying because COVID deniers are taking up space. The violence has always been on the anti-vaxxer side but that can change.

    I’m honestly shocked that in a nation where school shootings are common and people attack workplaces or random locations for whatever nutso reason, no one has tried to take out an ICU of COVID patients. Wouldn’t even need to sneak in a weapon, they’d just run around unplugging vents or messing with machines and the resulting mass code blue would ensure some fatalities. All it would take is one unstable person who loses a loved one to a treatable issue because “there’s no room” for them at the hospital to flip and walk up a few flights of stairs. Perhaps a cancer patient with nothing left to lose and massive chip on their shoulder might decide to strike at a hospital because if they’re not getting care, why should these jerks? It really is a miracle that in a country with as much violence as we have that fate’s been avoided for a year now.

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  6. MarkedMan says:

    Like many of us, I have friends, family members and acquaintances who won’t get vaxed for one reason or another, but who are not mindless raging trumpers either. I’ve been having trouble understanding what is going on, but recently I came up with an analogy that I think is useful. It’s Amway. Hear me out.

    People talk about doing their own research but the reality is that almost none of us does, not least because not many of us are actually qualified to do serious research in anything much less virology. So we are choosing who to listen to. There’s a corollary to that. Few of us understand economics or investment enough to evaluate every investment opportunity de novo, so we look to various sources for advice. Some of us are better at finding good sources of advice then others. For instance some people I’ve known are bad enough at choosing who to listen to that they end up getting involved in multi-level marketing schemes such as Amway. Some of them get excited for a while, fill their basements with $10K worth of crummy shampoo, and then kind of stop talking about it. Others go in all and end up driving all their family and friends away.

    The key is, these people are just really bad at evaluating who is giving good advice and who is spouting nonsense or promoting scams.

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  7. CSK says:

    @MarkedMan:
    When I read the anti-vaxxers over at the right wing nut job sites, “do the research” means “pay heed to every crackpot promoted by The Gateway Pundit.”

    “Do the research” has come to mean “confirm your own biases.”

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  8. Kathy says:

    @OzarkHillbilly:

    Something like this has been going on since last year. Anti-venom formulations are made by injecting horses with small amounts of snake venom. It’s well under a lethal dose, but the animals produce antibodies against it. these are known as polyclonal antibodies, as they are made from various B-cell lines (as opposed to monoclonal antibodies made in a lab from one B-cell line).

    I’ve also read about the camelid immune systems, which produce smaller antibodies than most other mammals, dubbed nanobodies. The principle is the same, except it seems the smaller antibodies bind better to surface proteins on viral particles. I wonder, if this does work, whether it could be used for other viral infections.

    Eventually it’s likely these things can be produced in monoclonal form in laboratories, the better to scale up production.

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  9. Jen says:

    @MarkedMan: Oddly, about a year ago I pointed out to my husband that almost all of the women I am friends with on Facebook who get sucked into MLM schemes are conservatives. These women are from all stages of my life, from childhood friends up to fairly recent neighbors, and with only a handful of exceptions, the ones peddling diet shakes, weird-ass leggings, kitchen gadgets, etc. are conservatives.

    And, the vast majority of them are now expressing vaccine skepticism.

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  10. OzarkHillbilly says:

    @Kathy: Anti-venom formulations are made by injecting horses with small amounts of snake venom.

    Now that you mention it, I remember that.

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  11. KM says:

    @MarkedMan:

    The key is, these people are just really bad at evaluating who is giving good advice and who is spouting nonsense or promoting scams.

    Which wouldn’t necessarily be a problem if those same people didn’t keep doubling down and refusing to listen when people tell them they are being scammed. Stiff-necked pride often goes hand in hand with this trait so the people who think they’re discovered a secret smart people don’t know never stop to think why exactly the smart people didn’t figure it our or why they’re not using it. It appeals to something dark within the human psyche- the “I’m better than you” that underlies the contempt in “Do YoUr ReSeArCH!!!” since only sheep aren’t free-thinkers questioning everything right up to drinking bleach for any reason.

    Society needs to get better at telling people it’s OK to be wrong or make a mistake as long as you accept help or information disproving your point. The difference between facts and beliefs needs to be reinforced as well as the more subtle difference between intuitional beliefs and personal opinions; when facts conflict with these beliefs, the fact wins because it’s a provable fact. It doesn’t mean the belief is necessarily wrong or incorrect but it’s not the correct thing to follow. I know it’s a biological thing to discount competing facts but society can work to instill at least “trust but verify”. It’s OK to look up info and facts but when someone tells you FB isn’t facts, don’t get cranky about it. Being wrong is being human, accepting correction for being wrong is damn near divine.

    Vaxxing has become political because personal opinions transmuted into institutional beliefs (in this case, the GQP and QAnon) and thus become “facts” to them. They can be the most anti-Trumper person ever but if they ascribe to the “fact” that came from the institutional beliefs and it validates their own personal bias and inclination, it’s still holding his political belief. They’re being scammed and don’t want to admit it because at this point it would mean some pretty harsh things about their character and worldview.

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  12. CSK says:

    This is a website that calculates the risk in any given activity:

    http://www.microcovid.org

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  13. Just nutha ignint cracker says:

    @CSK:

    “Do the research” has come to mean “confirm your own biases.”

    Isn’t that what it’s always meant in the vernacular? When I was teaching research writing (2nd year comp.), a fair number of teachers simply taught the students how to pick the best cherries rather than just any common ones.

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  14. Mike in Arlington says:

    @KM: I suspect that part of the problem is that if they admit they’ve been scammed, they may feel that would open themselves up to ridicule and criticism, or it may just make them feel foolish. I think it’s easier for them to claim (and feel) that the people pushing the vaccine are the dupes, and they’re the smart ones. And I think the anti-vaxxer influencers are using that feeling (that they are the smart ones) to keep them hooked and soothes any egos wounded by ridicule.

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  15. CSK says:

    @Just nutha ignint cracker:
    It could. I never really thought about the phrase–nor, frankly, even heard or read it–till the right wing began to use it as a mantra. First it meant “whatever Rush Limbaugh says is 100% correct,” and then it came to mean “whatever Donald Trump says is 100% correct.”

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  16. Kathy says:

    @MarkedMan:

    I think, and I may be wrong about this, that division of labor goes back to prehistoric times.

    When I hear “do your own research,” I want to add, “Yeah! And raise your own food, mine your own iron, make your own car, spin your own yarn to make your own clothes, develop your own medications, write your own books, make your own movies, churn your own butter from your own cow that you milked.” And so on.

    Back in late 2020, just before the election, I recall saying I was concerned the tiny don would announce a COVID vaccine, which might or might not be the real thing and might or might not be effective. This didn’t happen. If it had, I would not have rushed to get one on tiny’s say-so, but would wait for people like Fauci and other authorities to weigh in.

    This, IMO, strikes me as reasonable given tiny’s propensity for lying and exaggeration. I had no intention to reject a vaccine because he favored them (does he, BTW?), I just wouldn’t rely on his judgment of them at all. As it turned out, several health authorities, and other health professionals like doctors, confirmed the claimed efficacy of the vaccines.

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  17. CSK says:

    @Kathy:
    I don’t think Trump is opposed t the vaccine–after all, he claims credit for it–but he doesn’t want to alienate his fan club by promoting it.

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  18. Michael Reynolds says:

    @OzarkHillbilly: @Kathy:

    My first thought was, anyone who has a llama better make sure it’s well safe from looney Trumpies.

    But then I thought no, no Michael, we can do better by ourselves and the llamas if we spread the story that llama nanobodies are best obtained through ingestion of the freshest possible llama semen. This could generate many hours of entertaining video clips, as well as a degree of pleasure for lonely incel llamas.

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  19. OzarkHillbilly says:

    @CSK: He wants his cake and to eat it too.

    @KM: . The difference between facts and beliefs needs to be reinforced as well as the more subtle difference between intuitional beliefs and personal opinions; when facts conflict with these beliefs, the fact wins because it’s a provable fact.

    For a large percentage of the American populace, belief is far more important than facts.

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  20. CSK says:

    @Michael Reynolds:
    Llamas treated with Ivermectin for intestinal parasites might have a real problem. Then again, since this appears to be genuine medical research, the Trumpkins will dismiss it as a globalist plot.

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  21. OzarkHillbilly says:

    @Michael Reynolds: You have a sick and twisted mind. I love it.

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  22. Michael Reynolds says:

    @KM:
    I was writing a book that involved a con man, and realized in the course of thinking about it – and doing my research – that the secret superpower of the con man is the shame of his victim. No one wants to admit being taken. More often than not they’ll end up protecting the predator as a way of protecting themselves.

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  23. OzarkHillbilly says:

    So I took my dog into the vet the other day for his shots and a check up. All is well except for the fact he has hookworms. The vet tech hands me his chewable meds and with a half grin on her face says,

    “This for the dog, not you.”

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  24. charon says:

    @OzarkHillbilly:

    For a large percentage of the American populace, belief is far more important than facts.

    Sincerely held beliefs are the best kind, per SCOTUS they trump inconveniences such as laws, mandates etc.

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  25. OzarkHillbilly says:

    @charon: Yep, enshrined in the constitution.

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  26. CSK says:

    @OzarkHillbilly:
    Enshrined in the Constitution, just as Pence’s right to reject the electoral votes of seven states is enshrined in the Constitution. According to the Trumpkins, anyway. Pence was a traitor, you knows.

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  27. CSK says:

    Melvin Van Peebles, 89, has died. He had a remarkable life. I didn’t know that he’d become a successful options trader (and wrote a book about it) after he retired from movie-making.

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  28. MarkedMan says:

    @CSK: @CSK:

    “Do the research” has come to mean “confirm your own biases.”

    Sometimes, maybe. But I think more often it means, “I am agitated about this topic and I’m looking for an authority that makes me feel like it is understood and handle-able”. The people who are bad at this, whether it be COVID or investments, look to their experts for characteristics like absolute certainty and derisive scorn. They can’t see that the certainty has nothing behind it and the scorn is defensive in nature. No one projects certainty more than a lunatic, a fool or a con man.

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  29. Kathy says:

    Earlier this month, to muted media coverage, another billionaire took a joyride into space, in the form of the Inspiration 4 mission.

    For a flight with so many “firsts,” it was largely unremarkable. What’s special about it is the crew were not NASA astronauts, nor did they train with NASA. SpaceX handled the training, launch, mission control, and splash down. So, the real “first” to notice, or that I noticed, is that this was the first entirely private orbital flight.

    The problem is still that these flights have nowhere to go, except the ISS. There’s also little to do. Inspiration 4 did some experiments and gathered some data on, drum-roll, human physiology in space. Well, that’s nice. I suppose it will add something to the many experiments and observation from long-term crews in the ISS, which number hundreds of people over thousands of days.

    Until we have the means to travel to the Moon (human physiology under low gravity hasn’t been extensively studied; we also know little about long term exposure to the radiation found in space beyond low Earth orbit), there is one thing a billionaire with cash to spare and an enthusiasm for space could do: get into orbit to study a total Solar eclipse.

    The timing is tricky, as the eclipse lasts a short time and you want to be on its path at just the right moment. But the pictures would be spectacular, and there’d be no obstructions at all. Some decades back, a Concorde was used to similar purpose. One thing you can do in orbit regarding an eclipse, is take photos of the Earth as the eclipse progresses.

    If the Crew Dragon capsule can manage it, maybe along with the Falcon 9 Heavy, it would be great to do it from the Earth-Moon Lagrange Point 1.

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  30. Mister Bluster says:

    @OzarkHillbilly:..For a large percentage of the American populace, belief is far more important than facts.

    And feelings are far more important than rational thought…

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  31. flat earth luddite says:

    @OzarkHillbilly:

    “This for the dog, not you.”

    The part of me that’s chuckling is warring with the part that wonders just how many of her patients’ owners are gobbling down the doggie chews. I suspect the same thought went through your brain when she said it.

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  32. Kathy says:

    If the stakes weren’t so high, and the consequences so terrible, I’d say call Mitch’s bluff and let the US default on its sovereign debt (“We have the biggest debt in the world!”) See how the GQP base likes them apples.

    But there’s a big, huge, ginormous chance they’d like it just fine, because they could blame Biden and Pelosi for it (unless they choose to blame Ocasio-Cortez instead). We know how they liked a deadly pandemic with few mitigation measures implemented haphazardly, and how they love to go unvaccinated while scarfing down a useless deworming medication instead. Why wouldn’t they like a global financial collapse that would make the Great Depression look like the Golden Age?

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  33. KM says:

    @MarkedMan:

    But I think more often it means, “I am agitated about this topic and I’m looking for an authority that makes me feel like it is understood and handle-able”.

    How is that not confirmation of their bias, specifically the bias that conventional sources are too “elite”, hard to understand or otherwise not catering to their worldview? Choosing to seek out a source that breaks things down into digestible chunks of data is looking for a good teacher on a difficult subject; choosing to look for a source that’s a different authority giving a different viewpoint because you don’t like or trust the current one is a separate matter. This isn’t you preferring Ms Jones over Mr Jackson because she makes math fun and easy to understand but because Ms Jones tells you that Mr Jackson is lying about how hard calc is and all you really need to do is One Weird Trick or just feel the numbers, forget being “correct”. Ms Jones, beloved wife and simple homemaker!, makes you feel smart by making Mr Jackson out to be a deceiver and her way is a secret those Ivory Tower Eggheads would never have thought of. It’s an basic appeal to ego and specialness – those jerks smarter than you aren’t smarter than you! What does all that “learning” matter always when common sense tells you bleach kills germs so obviously drinking bleach will kill the COVID in you!

    It’s confirmation bias at it’s finest – deep down, you personally know what’s best and anyone telling you otherwise is a fraud. The ones who believe in you are correct and what they’re telling you resonates down inside your mind as “truth”. Anyone spouting something making you anxious, telling you something hard, scary, difficult to do or complicated by nature must be trying to pull a scam because reality is simple when you want it to be. It’s why you take the advice of a friend on FB rather than a dude from the CDC on TV – they are your friend so clearly your good judgement means they’re not going to give you bad advice while you can’t trust some suit telling you Scary Hard Facts. You choose the authority that feels right, not the one that’s provably right because in the end, bias means it’s all about you and your choices.

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  34. Barry says:

    @CSK: “I don’t think Trump is opposed t the vaccine–after all, he claims credit for it–but he doesn’t want to alienate his fan club by promoting it.”

    He was for it when it would have helped him and against it when it would hurt him.

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  35. MarkedMan says:

    @KM:

    How is that not confirmation of their bias, specifically the bias that conventional sources are too “elite”, hard to understand or otherwise not catering to their worldview?

    Got it. Yes, that makes sense. I was thinking you meant they had some preformed ideas about vaccines and were looking to have those confirmed. But you’re right, a true expert is going to make such people nervous and increase their anxiety because a true expert will also talk about where there are doubts and knowledge gaps.

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  36. charon says:

    @OzarkHillbilly:

    Yep, enshrined in the constitution.

    That is a matter of opinion. Without mind reading abilities, how do you tell if a belief is really sincerely held, or even truly held at all?

    I take the view you would need more than just a letter from some rando preacher

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  37. CSK says:

    Two ideas to which the MAGAs hold firm:

    According to the Trumpkins, if you’re unvaxxed and die of a heart attack, the globalist communists will attribute your death to Covid.

    Also according to the Trumpkins, if you’re vaxxed and die of a heart attack six months later, the vaccine caused your heart attack.

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  38. charon says:

    @charon:

    I also think inventing your own customized religious interpretation that requires you to do what you already want to do is just a bit problematical.

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  39. wr says:

    @CSK: “Melvin Van Peebles, 89, has died. He had a remarkable life”

    Never met the man, but I did work with his son once, who was a formidable talent and incredibly smart. Don’t understand why he’s not a bigger star…

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  40. CSK says:

    @wr:
    And lesser talents are bigger stars. I have no idea why some attain superstardom and some don’t. A lucky break? Connections? Who knows.

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  41. KM says:

    @MarkedMan:
    It’s weird, isn’t it – most people didn’t have an real opinion on vaccines until relatively recently. They’re either something that happens to you before you’re self-aware or as a parent, they’re something to check off the health list the pediatrician or parenting books list. For the most part, folks either had a vague benign “it’s just want you do” feeling towards them or you were part of the underground anti-vax movement that was limited to new parents being weird on the internet.

    Now, there’s a definite political and cultural flavor to anti-vaxxers so any bias would come from that direction, not really about vaccines in general.

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  42. Mike says:

    Researching my a*!. They aren’t researching; they read FB feeds and twitter comments that support their position and think to themselves “yep I was right” b/c see here the drunk guy in the green house two blocks over has a cousin whose brother’s friend died from the vaccine after his testicles fell off. Many believe you can’t be a good Trumpkin unless you are against whatever the libs say is good. With kids having to quarantine out of school more than they have been in school this year b/c covid is everywhere, I simply have no patience left. Never going to get a handle on this with so many anti-vax “scientists” roaming the streets. So frustrating.

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  43. Just nutha ignint cracker says:

    @CSK: True regarding FG, but my recollection is that “El Rushbo” was neutral about FG until he realized that his minions listenership was already drunk on the Kool Ade. Rush, Levin, Beck, whoever. Not a “Profiles in Courage” guy in the bunch.

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  44. CSK says:

    @Just nutha ignint cracker:
    I’m not speaking of Limbaugh vis-a-vis his relation to Trump. (Though I agree with you about Limbaugh’s reasons for glomming on to Trump.)

    What I was speaking of was the worshipful attitude that Limbaugh’s fans had toward Limbaugh, which was identical to the one they had for Trump. If either said something, it was 100% correct.

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  45. Just nutha ignint cracker says:

    @Kathy: #$200,000,000 divided by 72,000 entrants makes the tickets only about $3,000 each. It’s good to know that St. Jude’s has so many big gun donors. I was left off the mailing list for this fundraiser. 🙁

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  46. Kylopod says:

    @Just nutha ignint cracker:

    my recollection is that “El Rushbo” was neutral about FG until he realized that his minions listenership was already drunk on the Kool Ade.

    My recollection is that he didn’t make any sort of endorsement during the primaries, and he did say he liked both Trump and Cruz. Of course I was never a regular listener.

    One thing I did notice was that in the mid-’90s he tried to sort of excommunicate Pat Buchanan from the conservative movement due to Buchanan’s criticisms of free trade–and he received a lot of blowback from parts of his audience for this. He never went after Trump for similar heresies, probably (I suspect) because he’d learned his lesson.

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  47. Just nutha ignint cracker says:

    @CSK: The more interesting feature to me is that Rush figured out that if he talked about FG as anything other than the real deal, he was going to lose his position as “right 101% of the time” guy. It’s interesting that the dittoheads were willing to transfer their trust to FG. Maybe Rush stayed neutral too long. Is it possible that if Rush had spoken up earlier, that we wouldn’t have had the last 4 years? (ehh… Maybe not. Hillary wasn’t likely to win against a normal Republican, and Ted Cruz, for example, would have been just as bad policy wise–and maybe almost as vulgar.)

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  48. Gustopher says:

    @CSK:

    This is a website that calculates the risk in any given activity

    It has nothing on it about blowing llamas, so hardly any activity.

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  49. Just nutha ignint cracker says:

    @Kylopod: I hadn’t remembered the blowup about Buchanan and free trade. Good point. Even the guy whose worshiped as right all the time needs to guard against becoming a heretic. People are mercurial.

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  50. Kingdaddy says:

    A brief summary of the difficulties in bombing targets in Afghanistan, since that’s now how we’re supposed to prevent it from becoming a terrorist haven:

    https://www.19fortyfive.com/2021/09/kill-terrorists-in-afghanistan-from-over-the-horizon-good-luck/

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  51. CSK says:

    @Gustopher:
    I shall inform them of your plaint so that they may promptly address this most grievous omission.

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  52. CSK says:

    @Just nutha ignint cracker:
    I don’t know. I don’t think they transferred their loyalty from Limbaugh to Trump. I think they saw Trump as someone who’d be in a position to DO the things Limbaugh could only talk about.

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  53. Stormy Dragon says:

    @CSK:

    I don’t think Trump is opposed t the vaccine–after all, he claims credit for it–but he doesn’t want to alienate his fan club by promoting it.

    I think TFG’s current position is that Biden replaced his vaccine, the real one, with the fake murder shot after stealing the election. So people should both not get vaccinated and simultaneously give him credit for developing it

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  54. CSK says:

    @Stormy Dragon:
    Yes. I just remembered that, though has Trump himself actually promoted this notion is so many words? At any rate, they’re calling the vaccine that’s been administered since Jan. 20, 2021 “the Biden poison.”

    Which of course means that all of us have received “the Biden poison.”

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  55. Stormy Dragon says:

    @CSK:

    has Trump himself actually promoted this notion is so many words?

    Trump Floats Pfizer Conspiracy Theory While Blasting Biden For J&J Pause

    Former President Donald Trump on Tuesday, seeking to politicize the decision by U.S. agencies to recommend pausing the rollout of the Johnson & Johnson Covid-19 vaccine, criticized President Joe Biden and called it a “terrible disservice,” while floating a conspiracy theory—without evidence—the distribution was halted to benefit Pfizer and its Covid-19 vaccine.

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  56. CSK says:

    @Stormy Dragon:
    Well, that’s not exactly the same as saying the vaccine is Biden poison. But quite bad enough. Jesus, he’ll stop at nothing in his quest to destroy this country, will he?

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  57. Stormy Dragon says:

    @CSK:

    It’s Trump though, so I’m trying to translate his incoherent word salad back into the twitter conspiracy theory he original heard it from but is now mangling while trying to repeat it.

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  58. Stormy Dragon says:

    Florida Man comes up with predictable counter to the “but you already require other vaccines for schools” play:

    Manny Diaz wants to ‘review’ existing non-COVID-19 vaccine mandates

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  59. Mimai says:

    @Gustopher:
    @Just nutha ignint cracker:

    I’m no John Nash, but I’m seeing a pattern here.

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  60. Han says:

    @Kingdaddy: Well, since we apparently can’t tell the difference between terrorists and civilians, perhaps we shouldn’t be bombing anyone in Afghanistan.

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  61. KM says:

    There’s been a mass shooting in a Kroger in Collierville TN. 1 dead, 12 wounded.

    Christ, not even grocery shopping is safe anymore….

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  62. DrDaveT says:

    @Jen:

    Oddly, about a year ago I pointed out to my husband that almost all of the women I am friends with on Facebook who get sucked into MLM schemes are conservatives.

    Many years ago, at the invitation of a co-worker of mine, my wife and I attended a meeting trying to recruit people to sell term life insurance for Primerica. It was a classic MLM pyramid scheme, and the pitch was pretty smooth. When we left, I told my co-worker that we weren’t interested — but the next day I bought stock in Primerica. They were eventually acquired by Travelers’ Group, and I made a tidy sum.

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  63. Kathy says:

    @Stormy Dragon:

    It’s hard to oppose one vaccine only. The path of least resistance is to oppose all vaccines.

    So, now the Florida GQP is on record as the first that favors a higher child mortality rate.

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  64. Just nutha ignint cracker says:

    @CSK: Yeah, I can see that. During the time I listened, gobs and gobs of callers used to ask why he didn’t run for office. That type of person’s fever riddled mind might well have seen FG as the embodiment of what Rush as candidate would have been. (And considering the “in over his head” factor, they may well have been right.)

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  65. Just nutha ignint cracker says:

    @Mimai: You’re also no Noam Chomsky, apparently. 😉

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  66. Mimai says:

    @Just nutha ignint cracker: Touché! And incomplete.

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  67. Monala says:

    @KM: the lack of knowledge about vaccines despite their ubiquitousness shows how little people have thought about them. People say the Covid vaccines aren’t real because there are breakthrough cases among vaxxed people—despite being told every year that you might still get the flu despite the flu shot, it’ll just be a milder case. People think vaccines should be a force field preventing infection, rather than a defense system to help you fight infection.

    People say the Covid vaccines are not real vaccines if boosters are required—despite boosters for vaccines being common. Most individual childhood vaccines have 2 to 4 shots in the series before a kid is considered fully protected. Several vaccines need ongoing boosters throughput life, like tetanus. Heck, my dog needs regular booster shots for kennel cough and rabies!

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