Kerry’s Salute

John Kerry’s convention “salute” brought out some amusing comparisons:

Steven Taylor‘s PoliBlog(TM)

Jeff Goldstein‘s Protein Wisdom

Jeff Jarvis‘ BuzzMachine

Tanya‘s Red Sugar Muse

FILED UNDER: 2004 Election, Humor, , , ,
James Joyner
About James Joyner
James Joyner is Professor and Department Head of Security Studies at Marine Corps University's Command and Staff College. He's a former Army officer and Desert Storm veteran. Views expressed here are his own. Follow James on Twitter @DrJJoyner.


  1. dc says:

    Kerry’s salute looked perfect. This is the kind of salute a real warrior uses. One who knows both the battle weary tedium of protocol and the polished brass esprit of a first class navel officer.

  2. DC — put the pipe down and avoid operating heavy machinery.

    That salute was Kerry’s version of Dukakis’ tank moment.

  3. Bill says:

    He held it O.K., but when he dropped it, he did it like a “zoomie.” NOT the kind of salute they teach you in the Navy. You think someone who harps about his military service would at least remember how to salute.

  4. tbrosz says:

    Kerry probably hasn’t thrown a real salute for decades. I really don’t think the Democratic idea of pretending Kerry just got discharged from Vietnam last year and is now running for office is going to work very well. I’m sure some people still remember he was a Senator.

    Is a navel officer one that spends too much time in self-reflection?

  5. Jim B says:

    I’m sure it wasn’t intentional, but in calling him a “first class navel officer” you’ve just coined the perfect term for the kind of self-centered poseur that John Kerry is…

  6. Lee says:

    This veteran says you’re whack, dc.

  7. Donnie says:

    Pfeh. DC, you’re full of shit.

    Those “battle weary tedium of protocol” salutes generally work out fine on the field of battle, but when reporting in, the parade ground version is expected and rendered.

    Unless, of course, you want to give your new CO a case of the ass right off the bat. First impressions, don’t you know.

  8. Chris Josephson says:

    Great pictures.

    How long was Kerry in the Navy? As we ALL know by now he was in Vietnam for 4 months (and got those purple hearts). But, how long was his total length of service?

  9. Peter says:

    A salute is a greeting between warriors. Exactly whom was he greeting in that crowd?

  10. Kathy says:

    I hate to nitpick here; however, unless you’ve all coined a new term for “navel” gazing, the correct spelling for anything to do with the Navy is NAVAL.

  11. Assistant Village Idiot says:

    Civilians, including veterans out of uniform, do not salute.

    But if the precedent causes Hillary to try it, it’ll be worth it.

  12. Remy Logan says:

    Kerry’s salute is how were doing it the first day of boot camp. Our CC forbade us to even try until we learned how to properly render a salute and show respect. I can still render a proper salute, why can’t Kerry.

    As for DC’s remark — “One who knows both the battle weary tedium of protocol and the polished brass esprit of a first class navel officer.” As a former-sailor it warms my heart to see that the good Senator served in the Navey, rather than the same branch of service in which I proudly served. Even as a lowly Fireman and Petty Officer I knew that any superior officer, from Ensign to Admiral, who reported for duty with a salute like that did not have respect for his rank or service, or those who would be working for him. It doesn’t matter how battle weary you are, a salute is a sign of respect, not a tedium of protocol.

    Finally, you don’t render a salute by jamming your fingers into your forehead. When uncovered, the fingertips should barely touch your eyebrow.

    Senator Kerry, if you want to play to the crowd and pimp your 120 days in Vietnam, that’s fine. After all that is politics. Just don’t expect me to respect you in the morning.

  13. inkling says:

    I was in the Navy. Kerry’s salute sucked.

  14. dc says:

    I see we have a lot of trash talking fools who know better than Kerry how to salute. And just how many bronze stars, silver stars and purple hearts do you all have amongst yourselves? What a bunch of losers. Kerry himself no doubt has more than all of you fools combined.

  15. DaveP. says:

    Dc: Well, he DID have more than us combined… but he threw them over the White House Fence.


    Dude, you fisk yourself.

  16. Gaius Livius says:

    What a lousy salute. When I was in BCT, there was a poster in the barracks showing all the “wrong” ways to salute, with names to identify them (e.g., “Peekaboo,” “Hi there!” etc.).

    Kerry’s version was, “Hiawatha.”

    Even today, years after I left the service, I can still render a decent salute. If I didn’t know better, from looking at his pitiful attempt I’d say Kerry never served.

  17. dc says:

    davep, So Kerry earns a chest full of medals, you earn none(?) and then you have the audacity to criticize him for what how he salutes? It is people like you that make professional soldiers angry at the stupidity of partisan politics.

  18. Wavey Navey says:


    I think you forgot to mention the blue moons, pink hearts and green clovers. They’re majically deicious!

    Don’t try selling crazy here, we’re all full up.

  19. JohnOlaf says:

    Kerry salute was pathetic, anyone who has been in the service can testify to that.

    In one week we’ve had two Kerry “Dukakis” moments, both displaying the utter lack of stature this clown has.

    First the “Oompa Loompa” re-enactment at NASA, then the clownish salute at the convention.

    This guy should never get within 100 yards of the White House. Restraining order, please.

  20. Tim Higgins says:


    Oh yeah, well I served with Micah Ian Wright in the ImaginArmy Rangers, earning 5 Purple Hearts, 17 thousand Bronze Stars, and 68 kajillion Silver Stars, and Kerry’s salute looked about like what I’d do to mock my boss at work. I’ve never served in the Armed Forces (go easy on me – I’m 23, and haven’t lived through a draft), and obviously haven’t earned any medals, but I know what a sloppy uniform, a poor marksman, and a lazy salute look like.

  21. Douglas von Roeder says:

    I was in the US Army so I don’t know how they salute in the Navy.

    Kerry’s salute looks pathetic. He looks like he’s trying to get his deodorant to dry.

    When saluting in the Army, the upper arm makes a 90 degree angle to the rib cage. The salute creates a straight line from the elbow to the finger tips. The hand is rotated downward to hide the palm from the viewer. The fingers are extended and straight as is the thumb which touches the forefinger and the first tarsal.

    Watch the Old Guard perform or watch the Marines salute President Bush. Those are salutes done by the book.

    As for the Air Force, they just sorta wave!

  22. BJMorris says:

    Liberals are always so ready to compare everything republicans do to Hitler…let’s compare Kerry…

  23. richard says:

    Kerry’s salute was beautiful, an exquisite gesture of patriotism and humility combined. It was an uplifting moment for all of us, and you can try to denigrate it and mock it ’til the cows come home. The man is a hero and a real soldier, and just what we need at this time of conflict. Laugh away; just be ready to accept him as our next commander in chief. And thank God for it!

  24. Reid says:

    Libs believe that Kerry’s service in the big V and the medals he obtained there innoculate him from charges of being soft on defense. They go crazy when anyone questions his credentials.

    You guys are hacking away at the only leg Kerry’s got to stand on. That’s why DC’s going off the rails.

  25. Reid says:

    And Richard, too. (I’ve been reading the comments for about 10 minutes and, he snuck his comment in under me.)

  26. ColoradoConservative says:

    By the way, Kerry was a SAILOR not a SOLDIER. My Dad, who trained men in WWII as a 2nd lieutenant in the Army would spin in his grave at this insult to his infantrymen.

  27. ColoradoConservative says:

    And by the way, my Dad was an old-line FDR ethnic Democrat and he would be horrified to see what his party has become at the Michael Moore DNC convention. Horrified!

  28. Beldar says:

    richard wrote,

    Kerry’s salute was beautiful, an exquisite gesture of patriotism and humility combined.

    Humility? I don’t question the man’s patriotism. I don’t have a military background, so I can’t grade the salute, either. But humility? That’s something I think I can spot — and I’m pretty sure that whatever else John Forbes Kerry may be, it’s not humble.

  29. newshound says:

    So only someone with more medals than Kerry can comment on his saluting ability? Hm. Open question to anyone who says GWB is stupid – he got a Harvard MBA. Where did you get your MBA from?

  30. c.croninger says:


    Pat Robertson has a JD from Yale and we all know how smart he is.

  31. RiverRat says:

    Many of you may not be familiar with Mr. Kerry’s contrived military record and post service treachery. Before making your voting decision I urge you to take the time to study our case.

    Swift Boat Veterans for Truth has been formed to counter the false “war crimes” charges John Kerry repeatedly made against Vietnam veterans who served in our units and elsewhere, and to accurately portray Kerry’s brief tour in Vietnam as a junior grade Lieutenant. We speak from personal experience — our group includes men who served beside Kerry in combat as well as his commanders. Though we come from different backgrounds and hold varying political opinions, we agree on one thing: John Kerry misrepresented his record and ours in Vietnam and therefore exhibits serious flaws in character and lacks the potential to lead.

    We regret the need to do this. Most Swift boat veterans would like nothing better than to support one of our own for America’s highest office, regardless of whether he was running as a Democrat or a Republican. However, Kerry’s phony war crimes charges, his exaggerated claims about his own service in Vietnam, and his deliberate misrepresentation of the nature and effectiveness of Swift boat operations compels us to step forward.

    For more than thirty years, most Vietnam veterans kept silent as we were maligned as misfits, addicts, and baby killers. Now that a key creator of that poisonous image is seeking the Presidency we have resolved to end our silence.

    The time has come to set the record straight.

    Swift Boat Veterans for Truth

    My qualifications for commenting on Mr Kerry’s service are as follows: BM1 USN September 1965 to November 1969. I extended my enlistment and volunteered for Mobile Riverine duty in Vietnam. I served as a Boat Captain and Patrol Officer in US Navy Task Forces CTF 117 and 116 from November of 1968 to November of 1969. River Division 92, Nov of 68 to March of 69 and was a Plankowner in RivDiv 595/153 and served there from March 69 to November 69. I logged about 20 multi-day assault missions and over 140 combat patrols, participating in about 50 firefights. I was a awarded a Silver Star, a Navy Commendation Medal w/ Combat “V”, and a Purple Heart as well as several unit citations including 3 Presidential Unit Citations. I also have a piece of self-inflicted “friendly fire shrapnel” in my stomach for which I was too embarrassed, apparently unlike Mr Kerry, to request a Purple Heart.

    Please do what you can to spread the word about Swift Boat Veterans for Truth.

  32. c.croninger says:

    And on the other side we have a trained pilot who spent a little time flying fast planes over sparsely populated areas of Texas before he sought an early release to seek an MBA from Harvard. Which was the bigger waste of money?

  33. _Jon says:

    Richard, you ask us to “…be ready to accept him as our next commander in chief.”
    I ask you – the people you support don’t accept our current CiC, and treat him with no respect. Why should we do as you ask, when you don’t even do as you ask?

  34. Greg Bair says:

    It’s refreshing to see people actually debating substantive issues.


    At least it’s not as stupid as Bush’s little stunt on that aircraft carrier. Now THAT was appropriate. not.

    oh, and about Bush’s Harvard MBA – it was bought. How else could he get into such a prestigious school when he was rejected from the University of Texas Law School?

  35. Greg Bair says:

    Liberals are always so ready to compare everything republicans do to Hitler…let’s compare Kerry…
    Posted by: BJMorris at August 1, 2004 00:15 Permalink


    I am hereby invoking Godwin’s Law. Any comparison of anyone to Nazis or Hitler automatically ends any argument, and the side that makes the comparison loses by default.

    I have never compared the President to Hitler, and I despise any of my fellow liberals who do. The vast vast vast majority of dems do NOT compare Bush to Hitler, but the mainstream media likes to put these sensational stories on the air.

  36. jrosen says:

    “And on the other side we have a trained pilot who spent a little time flying fast planes over sparsely populated areas of Texas before he sought an early release to seek an MBA from Harvard. Which was the bigger waste of money?

    Posted by: c.croninger at August 1, 2004 02:35 Permalink”

    What poisonous garbage. You must be a Democrat.

  37. R. Ford Mashburn says:

    Kerry’s salute failed to meet military requirements; however, its more fascinating to see his “rapid response” team of campaign flunkies rush to his defense with the usual non-sequiteurs: ‘who are you to criticize? where are your medals? and Bush is a moron!’ It’s more important to change the subject than it is to address the issues

    For those of you who were “militarily challenged youths”, here is a diagram of a proper military salute:

    Comparing Kerry’s open-hand-thumb-out-cupped-hand salute it looks like one delivered by a cripple, not a crisp salute. Being the ‘first class’ sailor (not soldier) that he was, Kerry should also know that you don’t salute indoors, neither do you salute while uncovered, i.e. without your hat.

    But then Kerry wasn’t interested in demonstrating his attention to detail or military bearing, he was defusing an issue of weakness with regards to his record as a Senator on issues of foreign military intervention. It was more important to appear strong to swing voters than it was to actually be strong. And you know what Sun Tzu says about “appearing strong”…..

  38. Warthog says:

    The salute was a heck of a lot better than the pitch he threw at Fenway Park.

  39. Sissy Willis says:
  40. EJ says:

    Do not forget that Kerry gave a single finger salute to Vietnam vets at the Wall. This is what he really thinks of those who participated in Vietnam.

    Kerry continually reminds us of his Vietnam experience. Somewhat like Benedict Arnold reminding us of his Revolutionary War experience.

  41. Robert W. Trieschmann says:

    ?Keep uppermost in mind that John Kerry is a traitor who led the Vietnam
    Against the War when it voted on a plan in 1971 to assassinate members of
    Congress who
    supported the war. Kerry also betrayed members of the armed forces and the
    U.S. in
    numerous antiwar, anti-American statements and appearances with the likes of
    Jane Fonda
    et al.

  42. Shurnuff says:

    DC…. I just read a story of a young man who has returned from Iraq. Three weeks into his service there, he was wounded by enemy gunfire. Shot once in the head and once in the shoulder. After the first few days in he hospital he begged to go back with his group. After much insistence, doctors and nurses taught him to dress his own wounds and sent him back. He finished his tour of duty.

    Guess he did not know that just one more teeny scratch and he could be watching TV with his family save in the US. There was no honor in how kerry got his wounds (described by doctors as looking like fingernail scratches). Any real soldier would have been ashamed to report them as wounds. He told one buddy he knew if he got three wounds he was “out of there.” And he left!

    Honor? I think not! A true coward is what he is…. just biding his time to build up his resume in Vietnam before going back to his own silk shorts, fluffy bed and cavier.

  43. roger bower says:

    Piloting an Air Force fighter plane takes courage, intellegence, and skill. Try riding in one sometime. I think your respect for President Bush will increase.

  44. jeffs says:

    Jean Effin Keerie served a 16 week “express tour” in Nam, made sure he always had his 8mm camera at his side, racked up 3 Purple Hearts for paper cuts, aced out a mortally wounded gook for a Silver Star, then checked out on a regulation that the brass didn’t even know existed. Yeah, he’s a regular Audie Murphy! This gigolo piece of shit hasn’t worked a day in his life, including the 4 months he spent enhancing his resume in Southeast Asia. And that wife of his is like a Christmas gift I get from an old aunt every year – FRUITCAKE!

  45. DeeDee says:

    Oh, yes, Mr. Kerry is humble and I am sure if you asked him about it, he would venture to say that humility is his best quality!

  46. WSH says:

    All of this talk about Kerry’s salute is a bit nit-picky, isn’t it? What it comes down to is this: would you want the military to dismiss or even court martial a highly decorated officer who witnessed the Iraqi prison scandal, yet did nothing to stop it and even claimed to have participated in it? (Yes) Would you vote for the guy if he ran for elected office? (No).

    Kerry did far worse when he testified DURING the Vietnam war that he witnessed and participated in atrocities in Vietnam. We’re not talking panties on a naked Iraqi’s head, we’re talking torture, murder, and razing of entire villages.

    Now either he did NOT witness and participate in these atrocities, which makes him a liar and perjuror, or he DID, which makes him unfit for command and, in my opinion, unfit for the office of President of the United States.

    THAT is the message the GOP must get across.

  47. anti-DC says:

    … and only a 4 point bounce in the polls. Even Dukakis got a 15 point bounce.

  48. maxx says:

    Leave aside the sloppy, and in the context of the convention, inappropriate (cheap political gimmick) salute, what’s wrong with Kerry’s left eye? It’s almost closed and appears to be not focused. Is he partially blind? Perhaps he’s now released his medical records and we can find out???

  49. roy says:

    Didn’t Kerry say something like, “I actually fought against North Viet Nam before I fought for it.”

    If he didn’t say it, he should have.

    (Yep, I served in ‘Nam and still have my [few] medals.)

  50. I. Marschik says:

    President Bush trained as a pilot on a jet that, upon the completion of his training, had been determined not to be used in the Viet Nam conflict. His landing on the aircraft carrier was more than appropriate and the only persons with a problem are the ones who don’t want to know the truth about the sign hung behind him — that was for the carrier’s personnel only! I have no interest in the way John Kerry salutes; however, I do have an interest in his own personal submission (twice?) of the recommendation for the Purple Heart — it is not necessary for true heroes to write their own — there are so many others with unselfish reasons to describe the events. He apparently is an author of fiction, reinvention and redramatization of events for his own “history.”

  51. charkie johnson says:

    I saluted the way Kerry did when I was in boot camp. I spent the next hour running around the “grinder” with my rifle over held over my head. But I guess I should shut up cause I don’t have any medals.

  52. Dave says:

    1. Forget the “express tour” bullshit. The guy saw some combat and could have been killed there.

    2. No matter how much time he served, it was more than silver-spoon rich-boy destroyed-every-business-he-ever-touched AWOL-now-where-did-the-damn-service-records-go Bush.

    I don’t love Kerry, but Bush is a disaster. And a liar.

    Clinton lied to his wife. Bush lied to everyone else.

  53. ReaganRules says:

    John Kerry is also a self admitted war criminal, he burn villages and killed women and children and when he came back and saw it was an upopular war he changed and became a maggot infested, dope smoking, communist, peacenik

    Sounds like the name flipper was appropriate back then too.

    He is unfit to be our leader and we will see a landslide for Bush as big as Dutch over Wally World in ’84

  54. Dave says:

    Not a chance.

  55. WSH says:

    John McCain is a true war hero … and you RARELY hear him mention it himself. True heroes try NOT to bring attention to it.

  56. newzhawk says:

    My goodness- what vitriole we have going this morning!The libs have infested with their innuendos and attacks on Bush over critiques of Kerry’s symbolic over substance salute. Whatever Kerry does ,it is usually a Clintonesue method of symbolism over substance and designed to fool the people- hence he has amnesia about having a low draft number,getting turned down to study in Paris instead of enlisting, then enlisting in the Navy -his service of choice- and working as hard and fast as he could to use the 3 purple heart medals to get out after 4 months- didn’t want to stay in and had such an agenda his fellow boat captains and commander wanted him transferred to new unit as he was unstable. The stooges he has with him are paid now as they have been in the past with campaign money – all this is fact. Bush had a draft number in the 300’s – wasn’t politically obsessed as Kerry- enlisted in service to fly – flew difficult dangerous plane and served YEARS- not months – Harvard was no one in his familie’s alma mater- and an MBA is difficult in any college.This is all backed by facts – not Kerry fiction or Michael Moore fiction-get your cliche’s out of Lucianne. com or else I will spew my coffee.Oh and Fore got nothing much over C’s and got an easy degree – yet the ranting fool is considered intelligent by libs- we just can’t agree I guess

  57. dc says:

    During his second tour of duty in Vietnam Kerry commanded a Swift Boat on the rivers and canals of the Mekong Delta. This duty was so hazardous that it was said by senior naval officers that there was a 75% chance of being killed or wounded within the first twelve months on duty. Kerry saw enough action that in his first four months he earned three purple hearts, one bronze star and one silver star. His band of brothers stand shoulder to shoulder with him today as he prepares to lead our military as commander in chief.

  58. Dixie says:

    Egads, I can’t stand this poseur. If he happens to win, I’m afraid I’ll have to turn off my TV for four years.

    I think that salute must be the French version–or maybe it just seems creepy with him doing it.

  59. ReaganRules says:

    Bob Dole War Hero…..Chose Younger energetic running mate

    Clinton called liar and cheater and despised by the opposing party.

    Clinton still wins….why? Because need to vote FOR someone not against someone.

    Besides if the dummycrats really thought Bush had misled them on the war they would be calling for impeachment….the fact of the matter is the libs are COWARDS plain and simple afraid to take on the bad guys and they hate anyone else doing it either…..That is right you libs are all yellow COWARDS!!!! go live in France, Switzerland, Belgium or in Canada with the rest of the COWARDS….

    Go Bush!~!!! Go Military and Iran and North Korea….your on deck!

  60. dc says:

    Keep it up guys. The more attention you draw to Kerry’s military record the worse Bush looks in comparison.

  61. Rick in DC says:

    “His band of brothers stand shoulder to shoulder with him today as he prepares to lead our military as commander in chief.”

    Most of his Vietnam contemporaries oppose him as a ticket-punching poseur. As do all thinking Americans.


  62. Bill says:


    I guess you forgot that Clinton was convicted in Federal Court of Perjury, fined some $90,000 and prevented from working as a lawyer in front of the Supreme Court for 5 years… He also agreed to settle the Paula Jones case for ~$850,000 rather than going to trial…

    Just a few things to remember about our last president…


  63. Bland Auxer says:

    If Lurch and his nutty wife become occupants of the White House, it follows that the great unwashed one, Michael Moore, could be appointed
    Secretary of Hate. God Bless America? God Save America!!!!!

  64. GOPDeadhead says:

    Botox Boy’s military service isn’t in question here, neither is W.’s. What the point is, is that Kerry’s salute was piss-poor and unseamanly.
    But since Lurch brings his war record up, it is his duty(something else he forgot from his military service) to tell the whole truth about the matter. Now, all you Bush Haters out there, W. has released his full record, including medical, proving he served his full legal term. Frank Burns hasn’t yet released his full records. Also wasn’t he stationed in France after he scampered off from Viet Nam, leaving his “Band of Brothers” at the first opportunity?
    BTW don’t even give me that “You didn’t serve, so you have no right to criticize.” shit. I’m disabled, you fuckers, and so was FDR and he sent people off to war.

  65. Kerry claimed to have personally committed war crimes and atrocities. What were they? Shouldn’t we know?

  66. I. Marschik says:

    To dc — what “second” tour of duty did Kerry serve? Traveling around the United States as Hanoi John bad-mouthing all of those who had served or WERE serving at the time does not constitute a “second” tour… Evidently difficult for you, try facts rather than fiction…comparing President Bush to Kerry is worse for President Bush? Your entire premise is built from lies, deceit and a record of doing nothing for the last 20 years. One cannot make a silk purse from a pig’s ear and one cannot make a hero out of a sniveling coward…

  67. SHIRLEY says:

    It’s my understanding that Pres. Bush wanted to learn to fly, and that was why he went into the guard. I read somewhere that it would not be possible for him in other branches because of a long wait.

    Also, he volunteered to file in combat, but was not accepted because the plane that he had learned to fly, was not being used, and because of how much more time he had to serve in the guard was not enough time to train him on another plane.

    When he went into the guard he knew that at any time his group could be called up, as many were. He was definitely not running from an obligation.

    It certainly takes alot of skill and knowledge to fly a jet…alot more than to pilot a boat. I can pilot a boat (certified, etc) but I certainly could never fly a jet.

  68. dc says:

    It was during Kerry’s second tour of duty, which he also volunteered for, that Kerry, while injured and under hostile enemy fire saved the life of a Green Beret who was blown off a boat would have died if not for Kerry’s actions.

    When Kerry is commander in chief all service men and women will know they are being led by someone who understands their real needs and concerns. Here is something Kerry said at the convention: “From my first day in office, I will send a message to every man and woman in our armed forces: You will never be asked to fight a war without a plan to win the peace.”

  69. I. Marschik says:

    No one will be ever asked to fight a war under Kerry — it will be peace forever and ever — does that start “once upon a time…”? What second tour? A tour of duty in Viet Nam was one year — taking R&R does not make for a second tour…

  70. Robert Brown, MD says:

    I keep hearing of these three purple hearts. Where are his scars? How many other men on his boat received purple hearts? How many men died from enemy fire on his boat? It certainly makes one wonder about his couragous actions since he was so anxious to codemn his fellow military people and to embrace the antiwar movement? Where are the publications showinghis fitness reports, medical reports, etc?

  71. I. Marschik says:

    A book about Kerry’s service written by those who were present to witness Kerry’s Viet Nam experience is due on the shelves on 11 August. There are six who, for reasons known only to the group, are not participants in the book, but do not back Kerry; I believe it is a collaboration of 19 who set the record straight — they do not back Kerry. Of all who appeared at the DNC with Kerry, only two were with Kerry during his experience. I wonder how their bank accounts look — any deposits? New vacation homes, vehicles? Three, including Kerry, tell one tale; 25 tell the story — who to believe? Who to believe?

  72. Just a Soldier...a REAL one says:

    That’s the second time a “second tour” was mentioned. Do you think repeating a lie multiple times makes it true?

    I am retired military, and a (multiple) combat veteran. I despise this poser. I lived and served with soldiers my entire adult life and I know what one is. John Kerry is no soldier.

    When GWB volunteered for flight training, he had every likelihood of going to Vietnam. It was during his training that the mission was changed to Soviet interdiction on the Gulf Coast. This was wrangled by a DEMOCRAT.

    When Kerry volunteered for Vietnam, it was on a ship OFFSHORE. When he volunteered for River Patrol, there was no real expectation of direct contact with the enemy. This mission changed AFTER he got there and he quickly wrangled a transfer with somewhat questionable “wounds”.

    I would be willing to give him the benefit of the doubt about these wounds, but Kerry, unlike GWB will NOT release his records. I suspect it is because we will all see exactly what his “medals” are for. I would not have the slightest problem releasing ANY of my military records were I running for office. I believe it would be the right of the people “hiring me for the job” to know of the character of my service.

    Before you go off on a rant trying to explain to me what a “hero” is, I am not a “hero” but I know what “heroes” are. John Kerry stains the honor of heroes by allowing (if not encouraging) people to portray him as one. From a military man’s perspective, such self-promotion is the most loathesome of acts.

    I saw his salute, and I heard the words that oozed out of his mouth. I wanted to puke.

    I’ll post my rewards, not to promote myself, but to qualify my remarks and to short-circuit the ravings of those who like to attack messengers:

    Army Achievement Medal-6th Award
    Army Commendation Medal-8th Award
    Meritorious Service Medal-2nd Award
    Bronze Star-1st Award
    Bronze Star “V” Device-1st Award
    Silver Star-1st Award
    Purple Heart ZERO

  73. jcrue says:

    Would someone remind me why four months in the service of our military is more important than decades of service against it?

    From a Marine’s perspective, to stay on topic, that is piss poor salute and not appropriate for the occasion under military custom. But expect him to remember anything about his military service unless he wrote it or filmed it.

  74. keiser says:

    Kerry had the salute right….he saluted FIRST..which is what a junior officer does to his seniors.

    Kerry was showing that he was not in Command, but ready to be given orders and led. Most likely the orders will come from Ted Kennedy.

  75. djm says:

    Being from mass. I have already learned not to expect much from John Kerry. The only one this man cares about is himself. But that still is not enough reason to insult Lurch.

  76. evilelvis says:

    Clinton lied to everybody about “death camps” in Serbia and sex with “that woman” He covered up for Sandy Berg-ler when nuclear secrets went to the Chinese government. Clinton lied…and people died.
    Kerry hires “Yellowcake Joe Wilson” to front a website ironically titled “” the 9-11 commission (among many others) TOTALLY discredits ole Joe…Guess what? Joe’s website doesn’t link to Kerry’s anymore…
    Sandy Berg-ler has gone from “top advisor” to persona non-gratis whenever John Kerry is mentioned and Kerry’s so-called plan of action against terrorism has been yanked from his website…probably “inadvertantly”

  77. Rob says:

    This guy served less than four months in Vietnam but talks as if it was years.It’s so obvious that he’s a fraud just by looking at his homemade war film and multiple purple hearts for invisible injuries.He’s the type of guy who would trample a child to get what he wanted.As a life long democrat I can’t get myself to vote for a liberal elite creep who is a rank opportunist.

  78. DW McAndrew says:

    Since JK is reporting for duty, perhaps GW should direct him to Falujah in PFC fatigues.

  79. Charlie says:

    John Kerry is a damn hypocrite, he changes positions for whichever way the wind of popular opinion blows. He is a traitor to his country and his religion.

  80. Here’s another comparison for you. Two urban myths from the 1960s:

  81. Charles says:

    John F’n Kerry accused me, during Congressional hearings of being a war criminal for serving in VietNam. He can take his silly little salute and
    stuff it. Kerry is dancing on veteran’s graves to
    reach the W.H. and that is a low-life approach by
    a leftist, flip-flopping hypocrite.

  82. Uncle Mikey says:

    DC is a poopweiner

  83. BD in CO says:

    Kerry is proud of his service in a war he opposed. Now he’s opposed to a war he voted for, then voted not to fund, yet vows he will continue , even though he thinks it’s wrong, except when it’s right, but don’t mention it at the convention because (shhh…) the ‘swing voters’ are listening…

    Indecision at a restaurant on Martha’s Vineyard will get you a dirty look from Theresa. Indecision defending America will get people killed.

  84. John Malek says:

    I don’t know squat about salutes, but I fail to see how a self confessed war criminal can now project himself as a hero of that same war. My father, one of the “Frozen Chosin”, may he rest in peace, never bragged or even spoke of the incredible bravery and heroism that was exhibited every day of that terrible month.

  85. lee says:

    Navy salute.:as a WAVE on active duty in the Navy, I was taught that you don’t salute “uncovered” (without a hat) and you don’t salute “indoors” where one is usually uncovered. President Bush felt uncomfortable receiving the Marines’ salutes without returning them so he does so( not quite in Military Protocol) but he is Commander in Chief so who is to tell him he can’t…this does not give Kerry the right to ignore military protocol and salute in civilian clothes, indoors and uncovered..John-John had as good a salute.

  86. R. Pratt says:

    ‘Clinton lied to his wife. Bush lied to everyone else.’

    And you, my dear Dave, are lying to yourself.


  87. Kathy K says:

    John Malek,
    I wonder about our schools. I never heard of the ‘Frozen Chosin’ before Googling it at your mention. Heroes all, but our government doesn’t show so well, does it? Perhaps that’s why it’s not in the school books.

  88. PatrickHenry599 says:

    Last week, Heather Nauert, Fox News was interviewing a member of Kerry’s ‘band of brothers’, a Mr. Sandusky. She asked if he felt it was wrong for Kerry to come home when he did. He said Kerry deserved to come home because he had been SHOT three different times. A crock! Kerry was never shot, only sprayed with some friendly fire shrapnel. (Bandaid sized) And this guy professes to have served on a Swiftee with His Nibbs. And as to that salute, if I had tried one that bad I would have never been allowed to cross the gangplank to board the submarine I served on.

  89. Katye says:

    I understand he got 3 purple hearts… but by almost all accounts he went through great lengths to obtain them. He wasnt shot at three times, one of these purple hearts was due to his own negligence. his own Commanding officer turned him down for the award, but he continued to pursue it – so that leads me to believe that he wanted to use the three-injury loophole to get out of Vietnam and turn into a shamming SOB.

    Oh yeah – any lil crummy High School ROTC kid can tell you that that’s a crummy salute.

  90. Tim says:

    Kathy K,ever hear of the Korean War(can I say there was a war there?) The Chosin Res. in Korea was where many American soldiers fought off North Korean and Chinese(did anyone ever confirm the Chinese were really there?)
    Those men were heroes.
    I was in the military during the VietNam era. I was lucky, though. I didn’t have to go. God Bless all that went and did their job.
    Damn all those that condemn them.

  91. Frank Rodino says:

    Pass it to Ato.

  92. balzenuf says:

    kerry is a clown and has no chance to win this election. a good democrat probably wouldn’t win; a horse’s ass like kerry is a joke. the dems most be crazier than usual

  93. Kerry is nothing but a joke!! If anything it scares me if a man like him got into office!!

  94. MSG COlin Campbell says:

    The ‘battle weary’ slaute is a bunch of BS. How you slaute is an indication of your pride and professionalism. Somebody who gives a sloppy salute probably does a sloppy job on things like pre-combat inspections.

  95. Beldar says:

    Greg Bair wrote,

    oh, and about Bush’s Harvard MBA – it was bought. How else could he get into such a prestigious school when he was rejected from the University of Texas Law School?

    In the early 1970s, MBA degrees weren’t nearly so highly sought after as they became in the 1980s and 1990s. I suspect that Harvard B-school’s admission standards probably gave heavy weight to one’s undergraduate institution (Yale, in the case of Dubya). And of course, in addition to undergraduate grades and the institution that gave them, both Harvard B-School and Texas Law School would have considered different entrance exams (LSAT versus GRE/GMAT); one presumes that they measure different aptitudes.

    Texas Law School (my alma mater) is among the top public law schools in the country, and does indeed have fairly high admission standards. You’re right that Dubya didn’t get in there — something for which (perhaps oddly, given that I’m a supporter of his) I’m actually grateful.

    But in any event, Harvard B-School isn’t known for admitting dummies or handing out degrees like candy, and your suggestion that Bush’s acceptance there and eventual degree were “bought” seems rather unlikely.

  96. buddyluv says:

    Kerry’s Solute? Just another bumbled photo op by Kerry and a meaningless public relations ‘soundbite’ by the DNC ,,, as if somehow Kerry’s solute makes him instantly presidential.

    Speaking of solutes and as it concerns Kerry’s war medals, he has no frickin medals. He threw his away! … or were those someone else’s he discarded? Who knows for sure? His stories always change. Kerry showed a great disrespect (delivering the ‘Kerry middle finger solute’) to the Navy, other service men, and his country by acting as he did. Now he wants to use the same medals and his military service as a promotional tool in his bid to take possession of the White House (apparently to add to his collection of ‘family owned’ mansions). Kerry kinda reminds me of Benedict Arnold, a great patriot until he betrayed his country. While Kerry isn’t in the same class as B.A., I wouldn’t buy a used car, or anything else for that matter, from the guy.

  97. Carridine says:

    Tim, Chinese ‘volunteers’ were officially there in North Korea, ‘at the request of the legitimate North Korean gummint’

    And why make such a big deal of Kerry’s ‘salute’? Because of the inappropriate nature of it, as pointed out several times in posts above.

    And because it becomes, at Kerry’s instigation, a symbol and talking point across America and around the world. That is: Kerry introduced this as an expression of his fitness, then executed it so poorly that it demonstrated his UNfitness!

    Kerry introduced this to demonstrate his understanding of and his being in-touch with real Americans, whereupon real Americans threw ‘SwiftBoat Veterans for Truth’ in Kerry’s face and demonstrated Kerry’s lack of understanding and seriously out-of-touch reality at this point.

    His campaign is, thank God, doomed.

  98. Caldwell says:

    Ahhhhhh yes the old salute from a SAILOR. Well the salute was a joke but then again look at the man. He married a meal ticket ahem excuse me a rich woman, he can’t make up his mind about important issues, but hay lets forgive all that the guy served in vietnam for 120 days. How about we put my father up for president he served 5 COMPLETE tours in the Army in Vietnam? Or how about my brother as a presidential hopeful and myself as his running mate? We both served during the first Gulf War. My uncle served in Korea from 1950-1952.

    And Kerry is supposed to be a hero? If thats all it takes then maybe I should have joined the Navy and not the U.S. Army and went in to the Queen of Battle. (Vets ya know what I’m talking about)

  99. Bartholomew Roberts says:

    dc, I’m curious what kind of military experience you have that would let you tell the difference between a “real warrior” and a sack full of hammers based on his salute?

  100. SSBN627 in Nevada says:

    You can probably ‘donate’ your way into Harvard B School – and many other prestigious institutions -but that doesn’t get you OUT … that takes the same brains and hard work as everyone else in your class.

    Hmmm – I spent a mere 3 months riding the USS Enterprise around at Yankee Station – so I have the yellow ribbon but don’t ever claim to be a Vietnam veteran for no more service than that – Kerry spends FOUR MONTHS and that’s all he can talk about?

    Seems the boy has a short fuse also – I watched the Democratic primary debates and felt that he was real close to losing it a couple of times – I don’t want him anywhere close to the Air Force colonel with the briefcase.

  101. Charles says:

    I suggest we all gather together to recommend dc for an “Internet Purple Heart”. He has weathered so many verbal barbs with such fortitude. Still, he probably hasn’t a scratch having such thick skin.

    dc are you real or just a smart a– playing devils advocate?

  102. Kodiak says:

    If John Kerry was the only one running, I wouldn’t vote for him!
    My brother said it best……My brother proudly served for 24 years in the U.S. Navy, and he is ashamed that he wore the same uniform as John Kerry.
    Want to read about a real hero? Look up Col. Sydney S. Haszard. He earned two purple hearts, and a distinguished service cross all in the same battle in Vietnam. I worked for the man, and would have followed him into battle anywhere, anytime. He was a hero and he was respected.
    May he rest in peace in his place of honor in Arlington National Cemetery.

  103. Helen...USAF says:

    John Forbes Kerry is an opportunist! He’s a rich Boston liberal who has done nothing in is life with the exception of the extremely brief tour in Vietnam – but he denounce that and threw away the war medals he now wants to slide into the White house. His “Winter Soldier” book – the one he doesn’t want you to know about is the real Hanoi-John Fonda! The aid and comfort to the enemy he gave upon his quick return with his sack full of medals to meet the quote – according to some arcane rule few had heard of.. until aferwards, of course…years afterwards. Check Kerry’s records that are on the Internet: two facts: he changed his DOS (Date of Discharge) on his DD 214 via DD 215, specifically making it BEFORE his tratior activities! He was a Navy officer while he was ferrying war protestors around. He did that about two years ago…why would his military records SUDDENLY need ‘updating’? If his war medals were not paper fabrications, they would be evidenced by his medical records. Purple Hearts for most people are evidenced by medical records of the injury, medication, etc. Why won’t he disclose them? One reason and one reason only!

    John Forbes Kerry has blood on his hands that he can never wash off – many of the names on the Wall are due to his actions helping the enemy. Vietnam has a war museum – two of THEIR war heroes are Lt John F Kerry and Jane Fonda! There’s a website where you can see them. Kerry is so ignorant he and his anti-military liberals call him a ‘soldier’! If anything maybe a ‘swabby’…sailor, but definitely not a soldier.
    Btw, that salute was lame! And having served in the USAF, I can assure you they don’t just ‘wave’.
    At least not when I was in. The military salute, executed properly, outdoors, in uninform is the same for all branches of the US military. Of course we know Kerry only showed disrespect and contempt. He gave an anti-war speech BEFORE joining the Navy. He joined the Navy because he was about to be drafted into the Army. Can any of you real soldiers inagine ‘preppy-boy’ as a soldier? That’s funny. To all who served in OUR military, I thank you, and want you to know that there are plenty of people all across this nation who support and respect you. Of course the liberal media and DemocRATS are only interested in dead soldiers, sailors, airmen, and/or marines. And their homosexual agenda made them perk up to see naked buts in the air and for it to be the military, just pleased them. The Democrats seem to be sexual deviants (those on the national scene). I know there are decent and honest Democrats just as there are decent and honest Republicans. We should not allow these egg-heads in D.C., divide us. I find it disgusting to hear “our” troops from those who are of the Michael Moore ilk. Opportunist will do anything for fame and fortune. One Air Force surviving spouse said he was “a maggot feeding off the dead”. He abused their funeral services and put it in his crocumentary – propaganda of hate. God bless all our service members, our President, give them strenght and wisdom and keep them safe…from enemies..foreign and DOMESTIC.

  104. Kodiak says:

    Thanks, Helen.
    You put it very well.

  105. Toolback says:

    Very funny. It was pleasant. 😎

  106. Lonestargrl says:

    Because I have the upmost respect for our military, I reserve my comments in regard to Kerry’s salute. However, for someone who was highly opposed to Vietnam upon his return to the United States, and threw away his medals he received in his four month tour, he sure is ready to tell the world that he was a sailer and how he understands what our soldiers are going through. Understand? I think not. He voted for the war, but not for the funds to support the war. Now real soldiers like my brother don’t have the supplies they need overseas. Does anybody recall Kerry as a Senator? What a joke! You won’t hear him talking about that at the DNC now will you. For the ignorant people out there, look further than the nightly news for information. You’ll find many things the liberals don’t want you to know, and then maybe you can cast a meaningful vote come November ’04.

  107. Kodiak says:

    If John Kerry says that he witnessed and participated in attrocities, why didn’t he report those things when he knew they were going on, and why wasn’t he charged with any of these alleged crimes? Kind of makes you wonder, doesn’t.
    I also heard that he didn’t throw his medals over the White House fence, but threw someone elses. Why not his own?
    He also is reporte to be a supporter of the New World Order, and I’m not refering to the wrestling federation.
    God Bless America, but God help her if Kerry gets elected.
    I am proud to be a veteran. I have always said that.
    Can John Kerry make that same statement?

  108. Cake says:

    Kerry even looks like a fake piece of plastic.

    I must agree with the person who said his salute looks fake. It does, I dunno about the navy, but in the army, even theese days, one could not graduate BCT(or OSUT for that matter) with a salute like that. Kerry doesn’t even look like he was ever taugh a proper salute. He salutes like a civilian who watched a couple war movies, and decided to put on a uniform. ANYONE who has been to basic training would have not saluted like that. This is why I will call his actual military service into question instead of blindly labeling him a “true war hero”.

    Now I am guessing the people who said “OOOOOHH YOU DON’T HAVE AS MANY MEDALS ASS KEERRRRY” never served in the military. If you never served in the military, and you haven’t talked to a lot of people you can confirm as veterans, please kindly shut your fucking mouth. You know don’t know the half of it.

    I think whether Kerry earned thoose medals is what is in question here as well. Now I don’t know exactly how fucked up you gotta get to get yourself a purple heart, but I do know the bulk of them are sent to parents and spouses when a solider/salior/marine/airmen bites the dust.

    Three purple hearts in four months, in one of the most sadistic wars in history. I am gonna call a big bullshit on him earning them.

    John Kerry is a sham and an insult to real war veterans.

  109. Wriprodir says:

    As a decorated Vietnam vet, I don’t care about the medals, salute or lies about a Cambodian Christmas.

    Kerry crapped on all military personnel when he got home.

    His kind have been calling me and other vets rapists and murderers for decades. I KNOW who he is by his recorded words and behavior over the last 30 years.

    If the rest of you want to kiss his ass now, go ahead – but you’ll have to dig through all that Rogaine hair.


  110. Matt says:

    In another board I frequent, I made some comments about how bad Kerry’s salute SUCKS, and that his convention salute was embarrasing, if not completely disrespectful to the nation (I was in the Navy for 7 years, and will never forget the reaming I got in boot camp for my first lame ass salute to a CPO).

    Anyway, I was searching for pics of a proper salute (Like a GWB salute), to show the people on the other board what a proper salute is, and came across this site.

    Glad to see I’m not the only one who noticed what a sad attempt at a salute Kerry offers.

    Also, found a lot of sites that talk about the fact that the Marines now salute GWB until he is out of site, whereas with Clinton they saluted when he exited/entered AF one and then returned to attention as quickly as possible.

  111. Kodiak says:

    If you also noticed the Marines saluting Silly Billy Clinton, even though they are Marines, and among the best in the world, they did not salute the man, but the office he held.
    As much as I miss my dad(he served honorably for 30 years in the Navy as a Seabee), I am glad that he passed away before Clinton was elected. I know he is cussing out John Kerry for disgracing the Navy uniform that my dad loved and served in so well all those years.
    I am a veteran and very proud of it.
    John Kerry is a sham and traitor.

  112. Barzilla says:

    My only silver stars are 2 silver campaign stars,
    from RVN. I do have a rice sack full of attaboys
    and a few aw sh*ts to go along with them, though.

    Mr Kerry wouldn’t make a good pimple on the
    average L/CPL’s butt. His imaginary adventures
    in SE Asia are pure delusion. “Black Ops in
    Cambodia”???? Hooo-ha. Dang, who writes his
    stuff? He carries that M16 like a girl carrying
    a purse. Combat patrol my Aunt Fanny……

    We’re voting to reelect GWB. (Aunt Fanny, too)