Monday’s Forum
Steven L. Taylor
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Monday, January 24, 2022
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73 comments
About Steven L. Taylor
Steven L. Taylor is a Professor of Political Science and a College of Arts and Sciences Dean. His main areas of expertise include parties, elections, and the institutional design of democracies. His most recent book is the co-authored
A Different Democracy: American Government in a 31-Country Perspective. He earned his Ph.D. from the University of Texas and his BA from the University of California, Irvine. He has been blogging since 2003 (originally at the now defunct Poliblog).
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I wonder if my KC Chiefs fan son has found his heart yet.
@OzarkHillbilly:
Sigh, that overtime rule really needs to be changed. In fact, the Chiefs lost to it in 2019. So karmically, they had this coming.
Sadly, those. of us in Western NY are well conditioned to this type of disapointment.
A bit long, but well worth it: Life, in Dog Years
Don’t know where all this dust came from.
@mattbernius: Yeah.
On the brighter side, Josh Allen should keep you guys going for years to come. He is something special, a force of nature.
@mattbernius:
Yes. I don’t think the vocabulary exists to describe that game appropriately. If there is a word for it in a non-English language, it would translate into symbols.
To have it end without Allen getting a chance to answer is absurd. I think It’s fine to have the rule in the regular season–added injury risk alone is enough for me to support keeping it until the tournament. But in the playoffs, it definitely needs to be changed.
I think the most equitable solution is to take the ten minute period played in the regular season and add one. But treat it like a half–2 minute warning and all. Winner of coin toss gets to choose to receive or defer. Second 10 minute period begins with a kickoff.
@Kurtz:
FWIW, I agree with the proposal of a playoff exception.
@Kurtz:
@mattbernius:
I thought the Bills would make a 2 point conversion attempt on their last TD, to force KC to score a TD with under a minute left. the risk being if they failed to convert, KC could win with a field goal.
The advantage in overtime still is who gets the ball first. So, do you trust your special teams more than a 50/50 coin toss?
I was rooting for the Bills, just to increase the chances of a new SB champion this year, rather than another rethread. At least it won’t be the Brady Bucs this time.
I was thinking about the latest outbreak of the trump disease at work. The place where it happens has a common area with six desks in groups of three facing each other. Plastic dividers were added mid 2020. It has no ventilation to speak of.
Two seat next to each other, the third in front of one of them, and the fourth has his own tiny office with a glass door. None wore masks for like 99% of the time. Of the three in the common area, one is a maskhole who caught COVID last year, one wears his mask intermittently, the last wears her mask most of the time.
I sense a pattern here.
All, BTW, were vaccinated, or so they claim (how can I verify it?)
On other but related news, the State of mexico has begun rolling out boosters for my age group. I expect I’ll get it the second part of this week or next week.
@mattbernius:
Those two QBs, man. Mahomes buying time and throwing laser rockets from any arm angle; Allen tossing dimes and rushing like an All Pro running back. The latter is like a created player in Madden. No 240 pound person should be able to do this.
Very interesting piece in the New Yorker about Ginni Thomas (wife of Clarence Thomas).
I think my new favorite phrase to describe incredulity/BS meter is “slicing the baloney a little thin.”
The January 6 Committee wishes to speak with Ivanka Trump. Donald Trump’s response:”It’s a disgrace what’s going on…They’ll go after children.”
Children? Children? Sure, Ivanka’s his spawn, but she’s forty years old, not some Teddy bear-clutching preschooler.
He also told Michael Cohen that he’d vastly prefer it if Donny Junior went to prison rather than Ivanka, because Donny Junior would handle it better.
@mattbernius:..So karmically, they had this coming.
So the Kansas City Chiefs got some sort of supernatural help?
Wouldn’t this be cheating?
@Kurtz:
Usain Bolt ran at nearly 210 pounds. Cam Newton entered the NFL at nearly 250. Karl Malone played at 250. Early in his career, Dwight Howard played at 265. The guys out in the far tail of the distribution for athleticism — and with the benefits of modern strength training under professional guidance — are not like you or me.
@Mister Bluster:
Do you want me to answer that question as a skeptic or as a long-suffering Bills fan.*
Technically putting the “long-suffering” in front of “Bills fan” is restating the obvious.
via commentor Le Comte de Monte Cristo, fka Edmund Dantes over at Balloon Juice comes this little gem: What to know about the battle over Fox Valley health care workers now playing out in court
At his will.
Free market for me but not for thee.
@mattbernius: It is just a wee bit redundant.
@mattbernius:..long-suffering…
Bears fan. Cubs fan. Brooklyn Dodger fan. (Damn those Yankees!)
I feel your pain.
At least the Bills have two (count ’em) AFL titles.
@CSK:
So in addition to incest, El Cheeto likes to fantasize about pedophilia?
One can see why evangelicals love him.
@Jen:
I read that article yesterday and enjoyed that line as well. Even better that it was a quote rather than written.
@Kathy:
I think it’s always been clear that Trump has a strong letch for his eldest daughter. Years ago he and Ivanka were on some talk show, and the hostess asked Trump what he and Ivanka had in common. Ivanka replied: “Golfing and real estate.” Trump replied: “I’d like to say sex.”
And there are some entirely repulsive photos of Trump “cuddling” with Ivanka even when she was a pre-teen. The one of him sitting on a bed while she’s lying on it waving her legs in the air might be the most repulsive, even though she was an adult at the time.
The man’s a pig. No offense to pigs.
The right’s fascination with dictators, before Orban, there was Franco
A long read, but interesting. But it shows that the reputed small government, free market conservatism that the anti-trumpers represent was really a small isolated group that served, intentionally or unintentionally as a respectable front for what is an authoritarian political movement.
@Sleeping Dog:
They seem to be specifically fascinated with dictators who describe themselves as “Christian,” though I know there’s a subspecies of white supremacist that idolizes Hitler, who seems to have been a pantheist if anything.
@CSK:
When you accept that religion is the “opiate for the masses” and your upbringing was not only Christian, but Catholic, the use of religion in appeals to order are apparent.
An aside; ever notice how many of the fanatical, but purportedly intellectuals of the right are either Catholic or have converted to Catholicism. Given Roman Catholicism’s hierarchical nature and submission to the Vatican, it is no wonder that so many rightists supporting centralized, command and control of society wouldn’t find Catholicism appealing.
@Sleeping Dog:
I have indeed noticed that. I was just, in fact thinking about it. One of the things I was thinking about was Rod Dreher, who was raised a lackluster Methodist, converted to Roman Catholicism and became a devout practitioner, and then converted to Eastern Orthodoxy because of the RC sex abuse scandal.
@CSK:
The bunch at TAC seem fond of Portugal’s Salazar.
@gVOR08:
Who was a seminarian at one point, I believe.
@CSK:
Even more interesting is to go back and look at the number of Catholics that existed in the orbit around the National Review and the NR was the heart of conservatism in the 50’s and 60’s.
I wouldn’t go so far as saying the Catholicism is a cause or even a correlates to an authoritarian bent, but it goes beyond coincidence. But having grown up Catholic, my thought is that the idea that Catholicism supports an arch conservative political view, is a different selection from the cafeteria Catholicism buffet. It assumes that the philosophy of the church is consistent with the corrupt prelates that have led the church during its history.
@Sleeping Dog:
It’s interesting to look at how, at least in the northeast, political/religious affiliations have sort of flipped themselves. Up until say, 1970, if you were a Democrat, you were a Roman Catholic, usually working class. Around 1970, that started to change.
@CSK:
In the northeast, there is an abandonment of religion all together. Look at NH, arguably the most conservative of the northeast states and it also has smallest percentage of the population that are members of a church in the country.
The greatest part of that movement is away from Catholicism, but that reflects that the Catholic Church was by far the most dominant in the region. The movement from being affiliated with a church has been decades in the making. In a real sense, the US has become France, in that we pay lip service to religion and religiosity, but our investment is inches deep and shrinking in breadth.
It is no wonder that the true believers are panicking and want the state to enforce their values.
@Sleeping Dog:
I suppose if you’re devoutly religious, and you’re increasingly surrounded by atheists, agnostics, and those indifferent to religion, you’re going to feel threatened. I’ve mentioned before that I wasn’t raised in any religion, so I have no visceral grasp of the kind of power religion can wield over one.
Religion, in general, seems to have lost a great deal of its crowd control function.
@CSK:
While I take the point about so-called “cafeteria Catholics,” I should note that since the birth of exit polls in the 1970s, the Catholic vote has remained largely a bellwether in presidential elections–whoever wins it, wins the election. (The only exception was 2000, when Al Gore won the Catholic vote but lost the election, sort of. In the years since, the talking point I kept hearing was “the Catholic vote always votes for the winner of the popular vote”–until Trump broke that pattern in 2016, winning the Catholic vote but losing the PV.) The Catholic vote actually voted against John Kerry, the first Catholic nominee since Kennedy. But they did vote for Biden.
Of course like a lot of bellwethers, this probably paints an oversimplistic picture that lumps together different trends over time. Offhandedly, I’d guess that at least part of what’s going on is the growth of Latinos (heavily Catholic and Democratic-leaning) providing a countervailing force to the increasing conservatism of white Catholics.
@OzarkHillbilly:
So they get to take no action to keep the employees AND stop them from taking new jobs. That’s pretty cool, for them anyway. Who was it that said “You can’t have your cake and eat it, too?” Clearly, that person was wrong.
@CSK: As long as you don’t start calling pigs “trumps,” I think they’ll assume you are speaking metaphorically using standard and time-honored slurs of pigs so they’ll let it pass.
@Kylopod:
Yes, but also practicing Catholics, as a whole, aren’t as conservative as the church hierarchy in the US, nor of publicly prominent Catholics. Looking at polling on social issues there isn’t a lot variance between practicing Catholics on issues like birth control, abortion, race and women’s rights (and this is a lot about women), there is is in the general population. The Papacies of JP II and Benedict, skewed the church to the right and stanched the progressiveness of the post war prelates. Hell, before JPII, the church might have been accused as progressive on gay rights.
@Sleeping Dog: It seems to me that within Western Christian spheres of belief, the notion of the government being specifically ordained by God sets up a presupposition that your nation either has “a Godly ruler” or is being punished for being sinful by being given an undesirable government. Who among Christians wants to think of their nation as deserving of punishment from God? Also who will be willing to embrace ideas of how to treat their fellow citizens that run contrary to “Godly laws?”
Franco, Trump, Salazar, Pinochet, whoever is identified as “one of ours” must of necessity be “God’s instrument for the time” no matter what. And the “not one of ours”es must be governments that should be toppled so that “God’s instrument” can be installed and the nation “redeemed” (because said nation is “under judgement” at the moment).
Compared to dispensationalist Christianity, cognitive dissonance is nuthin’.
@just nutha:
Yup
@CSK: “Religion, in general, seems to have lost a great deal of its crowd control function.”
Absolutely. Which makes leaning toward authoritarian government (which Christianity presumes as a boon to begin with as “the peaceable kingdom” of the end of the age will be ruled by God directly) less of a leap and more of a necessity.
@just nutha:
Actually, “trump” would make a good replacement insult for “pig,” wouldn’t it?
“God, he’s such a trump.”
I like it.
It’s interesting that the expression “trumped up” means “devise deceitfully or dishonestly.”
@just nutha:
In this case of those who desire a Christian strongman, it seems they want to be controlled.
@CSK: I don’t think so. It’s still more not wanting you to be able to do things of which they don’t approve. For themselves, the control will always be measured against restrictions of activities they want to do/rights they want themselves to have.
@just nutha: While I was in Korea, a Southern Baptist minister at an English language church was waxing eloquent about “what kind of world it would be if we only had The Bible to read.” My reaction was that nobody was stopping him from limiting himself to only reading The Bible, but of course, I realized that wasn’t what he was getting at.
@just nutha:
That’s an important distinction. Thanks.
@just nutha:
I’ve always been intrigued by the fact that so many fundamentalists take Trump to be one of them. It’s not just that he’s irreligious; it’s that he’s on the record as sneering at religion, and mocking the devout as “losers.”
And in other news, the trial for Sarah Palin’s lawsuit against the NYTimes for defamation will have to be postponed because she tested positive for Covid.
She has remarked that she’d get the vaccine over her dead body.
@CSK:
Yes, and as a direct result of having Trump in office for four years, they’re finally getting to see Roe eviscerated once and for all. They weren’t being stupid in their support for Trump. Hypocritical perhaps, but not stupid. They knew exactly what they were getting, and it was, by and large, exactly what they wanted.
@CSK: How’s that natural immunity thing workin’ out for ya?
@Kylopod:
True. But I think a fair number of them managed to con themselves, against all available evidence, that Trump was one of them, even if he came to Jesus relatively late in life.
@Kylopod:
I’ve never figured out how you’re supposed to know if you’re naturally immune to Covid. If you get it and you die, is your final thought: “Guess not”?
@CSK:
I agree. It’s certainly a theme in parts of the right-wing ecosphere, and given all those elixirs they’re always pawning, I’m sure there’s a sizable audience who actually believes that shit. How large that crowd is, as opposed to the more cynical supporters who think of him as simply a useful engine for their cause, is hard to say. I’d be curious to see a poll of how many Trumpists (or perhaps “Republicans”) perceive Trump as a devout man of God, but honestly for a number of reasons I’d probably question its accuracy anyway.
@CSK:
I mean, if I want to be totally fair, we in the reality-based community maintain that the vaccines work, even though we know there are examples of people who got the vaccine getting Covid, and in rare cases (e.g. Colin Powell) dying from Covid. The difference is that we have brains capable of grasping the concept of relative reduction in risk. I’m not convinced Covidiots possess that cognitive skill. Everything to them is black and white, something always works or it never does. Or at least that’s the way they always talk.
@Kylopod:
In 2020, a Politico/Morning Consult poll found that 27% of registered voters regarded Trump as a religious man. Two out of five Evangelicals regard him as religious; 62% of Catholics did not find him to be religious. For what it’s worth.
Trump evaded the issue of his devoutness when Sean Spicer asked him in 2020 if he’d grown in his faith. Trump replied: “I’ve done so much for religion.”
@Kylopod:
Covidiots won’t take the vaccine because they’re convinced it will kill them. They’ve moved on from thinking that it would implant a Gates/Soros tracking microchip
@CSK:
There was no Greek god of irony, alas, but perhaps Ate, goddess of mischief, delusion, ruin, blind folly, rash action, and reckless impulse would do just as well.
@CSK:
I’ve quit keeping track, but literally billions of people have been vaccinated with two doses*, and at least tens of millions if not hundreds of millions with boosters on top of that. If the vaccines were meant to kill, we’d be tripping over corpses (not to mention triple masking to try to keep the stench at bay).
Not that I think the testable predictions made by wingnut theories are meant to be tested. If they are, it’s more like “Colin Powell died and he was vaccinated. The vaccine KILLED HIM!111!!!!
@Kathy:
Over at Lucianne.com, the commenters are totally convinced that Bob Saget, Betty White–really, any celeb you care to name–died as a direct result of being vaxxed.
@Kathy: I was unaware of Ate, or her Roman equivalent, the entertainingly named Error. I’ve long thought Christianity needed something like Loki or Ate, a god or goddess of mischief and chaos. It’s just too hard to reconcile a sole god who’s benevolent, omniscient, omnipotent with the world as it is. And boring.
@Kathy:
I’m personally betting/hoping that Loviatar visits her. But then again, I’m not a nice Luddite.
@gVOR08:
Take your pick of dualistic heresies: Marcionism, Catharism, Paulicianism, Gnosticism…
Uh, boss, for some reason all my posts for the last few days have been consigned to the time out room. Was it something I said? If so, please let me know when I can come back in and play in the sandbox. I promise I’ll try to be gooder!
@Flat Earth Luddite:
You’re here now. I see you.
@gVOR08:
Monotheism may have been a direct result of the god-making business getting completely out of hand.
https://www.wired.com/2014/08/measuring-inbreeding-in-the-greek-gods/
Orbital Insertion Burn a Success, Webb Arrives at L2.
@CSK: I suspect it was Mischief, not Loviatar who was responsible for my earlier vanishing. If not, maybe she’s preparing to visit Madame Palin.
@gVOR08:
I think that would be the non-God Satan, but devoid of a sense of humor.
BTW, IMO, between the trinity, the cult of Mary, and the cults of the various saints, Christianity is more like a modern polytheistic religion than a monotheistic one, and that might explain in part why it spread after Rome adopted it.
Don’t forget Native American’s Coyote. He’s always causing trouble.
@Kathy: Early Christianity was very fond of adopting other religion’s gods as either saints or demons, which ever better suited their goals at the moment.
@Kathy:
@gVOR08:
All hail Eris! All hail Discordia! Kallisti
@sam: Good to hear.
@JohnSF:
Athena says Eris is a libelous legend.
Did you ever see a golden apple? Come on! the iPhone hadn’t been invented yet.
@CSK: True, but those statements and attitudes were before he became a “baby Christian” and even the post bC statements need to be seem as people deliberately misunderstanding FG and fake news attempts to besmirch him.
@CSK: The self-deception is always part of the mix. They conceptualize their beliefs to match how they want to live and then twist the theology and teachings to conform. It’s been a problem since the earliest recorded history of the church and is part of the whole Jesus’ sacrifice on the cross made you forgiven, not smarter, wiser, or more holy thing.
@gVOR08: Christianity DOES have such an entity–people.
@Kathy: In Native American lore, Coyote is a character who acts that way. “The Trickster”.
@Just nutha ignint cracker: @Just nutha ignint cracker:
Depressing, isn’t it?