Thursday’s Forum

Steven L. Taylor
About Steven L. Taylor
Steven L. Taylor is a Professor of Political Science and a College of Arts and Sciences Dean. His main areas of expertise include parties, elections, and the institutional design of democracies. His most recent book is the co-authored A Different Democracy: American Government in a 31-Country Perspective. He earned his Ph.D. from the University of Texas and his BA from the University of California, Irvine. He has been blogging since 2003 (originally at the now defunct Poliblog). Follow Steven on Twitter


  1. MarkedMan says:

    Late last night on another thread, someone said “Technically, consumers pay all tariffs.” Not to give the writer grief, but I’ve heard this all my life and it’s always bothered me. It’s treated as self evidently true and usually marshaled out by those who are against all taxes, but it is actually a heckuva a lot more complicated than that.

    Say there is a company selling a widget and it has determined over a long stretch of trial and error that to optimize their profits they sell it a $29.99. If they sell it for less they don’t get significantly more customers and will reduce their profits. If they sell it for more they make more on each one but lose enough customers that their overall profits go down. $29.99 is the sweet spot.

    Now, let’s say that there is a $1 tax or tariff levied on the product. Is the immediate reaction going to be to raise the price to $30.99 (or higher to preserve overall margins?). No. There will be a complex set of calculations based on potential sales loss, amount of competition in the market, whether the product is a luxury or a necessity, and so on. It could well be decided that the best course is to eat the tax and preserve the sales volume.

    I’m not saying that tariffs are harmless to the consumer, only that the simplistic view is in reality much more complex. This isn’t theoretical for me either. I am part of these discussions for my company’s product lines, as we respond to all kinds of challenges on the cost side. Most relevant is that our “European” distribution center is still in the UK and since Brexit our costs have gone up, and we have decided, so far, to eat them.

  2. Jax says:

    Just out of curiosity, what’s the price for a dozen eggs where you guys all live?

    Here they are $6/dozen, $8/18’s for standard white eggs. I’ve been wondering why demand for my farm eggs is so high…I didn’t realize the store prices had gone up so much.

  3. Bob@Youngstown says:

    @Jax: here in NE Ohio the price for 12 white large eggs is 2.06

  4. Mu Yixiao says:


    $2.49 as of Saturday at the Kwik Trip. Not sure about the grocery store (they’re usually higher).

    I haven’t seen what the farms are charging at their stands (I really need to start buying eggs from the farmers, but it’s usually a matter of “oh shit, I only have one egg and I’m still in my pajamas”) 🙂

  5. CSK says:


  6. Michael Reynolds says:

    Land O’ Lakes large organic on sale at 5.49 is the cheapest I can find from my usual store here in L.A., but that’s a sale, the usual seems to be more like 6.49.

  7. OzarkHillbilly says:

    @Jax: No idea, I raise my own. 😉

  8. de stijl says:


    I will check next time. The embarrassing thing is I don’t know. I buy a half dozen every other week, large white. I don’t even check the price it just goes in the cart.

    One thing that freaked me out was a bag of Tyson breaded chicken strips was $14.99. Are you bleeping kidding me?! Has the world gone crazy? Is that a misprint or a pricing screw-up?Nope, not worth it. The cheapo store brand was $6.99 for ~ 25-30% less weight. I bought that instead and it’s fine.

    Checked the price the next week and still $14.99 so not a mistake. That is insane!

  9. Scott says:

    In San Antonio, $3.07 for Grade A Large, $3.79 for Grade AA Cage Free Large, $6.16 for Grade A Organic Pasture-Raised Large Brown. There are at least another 6 more variations of eggs to choose from.

    We Americans have it tough to have to have so many choices of eggs. Our freedom is dying.

  10. de stijl says:

    Speaking of breakfast, my knee is bonked right now (but improving – I can put some weight on it now) so I couldn’t go to the store this week.

    I’m out of skim milk, so this morning I ate my cereal (Cap’n Crunch, obviously) with half and half. That was extremely rich, very decadent, semi-gross, and quite yummy. It was intense and odd.

    Most mornings the milk is the background tone, a neutral medium for the deliciousness that is Cap’n Crunch. This morning was with half and half – simultaneously off-putting and intriguing.

    I recommend trying it at least once. So decadent!

  11. Jax says:

    I guess part of the cost increase here is how remote we are, but even the eggs at WalMart in Rock Springs (right on I-80), and in Idaho Falls (on I-15) are that high.

    It’s also $10 for a quart of heavy whipping cream here. I think whole milk is $6 a gallon. Used to be $3.

  12. Kathy says:


    That’s Kathy’s First law: Nothing is ever so simple.

    Suppose an airline wants to buy a new (and non-existent) mid-market plane. Its choices are the Boing 797 (not real), and the Airbus 360 (also not real).

    Say the Boeing goes for $120 million (real price, not list price), while the Airbus is $100 million. the planes are comparable in size, passenger capacity, fuel burn, etc. But a 30% tariff is slapped on the Airbus. So now it could cost you $130 million.

    What happens depends on many, many factors. Is there a retaliatory tariff in the EU, which would hurt Boeing’s sales there? Are you buying the planes or leasing them? If the latter, is your lessor placing additional orders for other customers? Would Airbus maintain the lower price pending repeal of the tariff through existent legal mechanisms? Would Boeing raise its price since $127 million is still lower than $130 million? Are there alternatives like the A321 XLR or maybe the 737 MAX 10, or even a fourth hand 757? Is your government pressing you to buy the Boeing or lose some tax exemptions? Is the tariff due on order placement, down payment, monthly payments?

    Undoubtedly there is much more.

    And this is why trade wars are 1) not good, 2) not easy to win, and 3) not as simple as slapping tariffs.

  13. Mu Yixiao says:

    @de stijl:

    Half & Half on our cereal was a treat when I was growing up.

  14. MarkedMan says:

    @de stijl: Wow. My taste in cereal is the polar opposite of yours. I only eat it once a week or so but when I do I have a pretty involved mixture:
    – Take one small rice bowl
    – Add a handful of unfrosted shredded wheat (all the cereal is store brand, usual Trader Joe’s)
    – Add a handful of unfrosted bran flakes
    – Add a small handful of 100% bran cereal
    – Add a small handful of Muesli
    – 3 dried apricots
    – ~ 15 dried cranberries
    – ~ 15 raisins
    – ~ 8 almonds
    – fill bowl with oat or almond milk

    Yes, I recognize I’m approaching obsessive compulsive here, but on the other hand I find it delicious and feel fantastic after eating it.

  15. Michael Reynolds says:

    A sort of related question. I’m interested in whether household chores have become more equally divided among partners.

    I do all things kitchen – I do all the food shopping (Instacart), the put-away, the dishes, and I keep the counter more-or-less clean. We have a cleaning lady who comes in every other week to do floors and bathrooms. If there’s any cooking done – and it’s maybe twice a week with the rest being DoorDash – I do it. And of course I make cocktails.

    Laundry floats depending on who’s busy. If the wife is on deadline I’m laundry boy. If I’m carrying more of the load, she jumps in.

    My wife handles all living things: pets and their issues, as well as houseplants, and the various plants and trees and whatnot in the yard. The living room which is also my wife’s place of business is generally a mess, but un-messing it is on her. The pool and spa are mine. Dealing with relatives is on her, so is bill-paying, though I take care of taxes. We don’t commute, but when there’s driving to be done, that’s usually me.

    I’m old enough to remember a time when men did not do household chores. Ah, for the good old days.

  16. CSK says:

    Rick Caruso, a billionaire real estate developer who’s running for mayor of Los Angeles, insists that he’s not white, but…Italian.

    “That’s Latin, thank you,” he claims.

  17. Rick Smith says:

    @Michael Reynolds: Your setup sounds a lot like how my wife and I handle things. We both work, though she works from home.
    She helps with the prep work for meals (washing, cutting, etc.), but I usually end up doing most of the actual cooking. She handles laundry, though we usually both fold and we put up our own clothes. We each have a different system for organizing.
    Housecleaning doesn’t have a strong division, but I usually end up doing bathrooms while she does a lot of the mopping and sweeping.
    I get the yard.
    I handle most of the dog duties, she handles most of the cat duties.

    I also make the cocktails.

  18. Neil Hudelson says:

    @Michael Reynolds:

    90% of the time I do:
    -All the pet stuff, including walking both dogs, scooping litter box, etc.
    -Kitchen stuff, including grocery shopping, cooking, and yes cocktails. (Wife: this old fashioned is great, I don’t know what you did to it. Me: it’s a Manhattan.)
    -Initiating cleaning. My wife will chip in once it gets going, but I have an ability to see dirt and mess that apparently is invisible to her.
    -Most but not all of the bills

    Contra she does:
    -Kid daycare stuff. It may not be hard labor, but with commute it’s nearly 2 hours of the day. I’ll take a messy kitchen to clean up any day.
    -Kids nighttime routine (with an assist from dad, I don’t want to sound like a deadbeat here)
    -Braving the horror that is a Costco trip.

    Total work load is probably 60/40, to my detriment. But, time load is 60/40 to my benefit.
    -All the kid dayc

  19. Neil Hudelson says:
  20. JohnSF says:

    Eggs, you say?
    Tesco Medium Free Range Eggs, dozen, £2.05
    I usually get them from the local butchers, who sells his own farm eggs, but I’m darned if I can remember the price I paid last weekend.
    More expensive than Tesco, I’d bet.
    But they’re nice eggses.

    That concludes this particular eggsercise. 🙂

  21. de stijl says:

    One of my favorite meals is doing up a big breakfast for my evening meal. Breakfast for dinner.

    A couple three sausage links, an open faced sammy with a sunny side up egg on some seeded rye toast with some good bacon under the egg, a slice of buttered cinnamon raisin toast as the side carb. Pop the yolk and let it ooze everywhere. Sometimes hot sauce on the egg, sometimes not, either way is great.

    Breakfast for dinner is really fulfilling on a deeply fundamental level.

  22. Kurtz says:



    It’s been a long time since I took macro and micro econs, but this is a rough explanation of how I remember it.

    It’s more complicated than consumer pays or supplier pays.

    Added cost affects the equilibrium point along the supply and demand curves.* Without the tax, that point is where the curves meet. With the tax, the points along each curve shift to the left. The charts linked below shows the effects.

    To show the impact of the tax, one draws a dotted line between the new points along each curve. This creates a triangle between the original curves and the dotted line. This shows the deadweight loss (the loss associated with the economic activity that no longer occurs.) Drawing a dotted line from the original equilibrium point to the y-axis yields the proportion of the tax paid by supplier and consumer.

    Additionally, it depends on elasticity

    *Remember, there are two curves. One for consumer and one for the supplier.

  23. Beth says:

    @de stijl:

    simultaneously off-putting and intriguing.

    That’s how I strive to live my life.

    @Michael Reynolds:

    It’s probably 60/40 in my house. My partner does basically all the mental load work (keeping kids schedules, mornings, bill pay). She also does all the shopping because that gets her time alone and it’s easier for me to clean the house if she’s not stopping every 30 seconds to deal with every idiotic whim that pops in to my kid’s heads. I just use what my mom taught me, turn up the music to an insane volume and everyone will leave you alone while you clean. I just do it with no stomping or racism.

    She’s also responsible for keeping everyone in the house (kids, pets, me) alive. I’m responsible for tall girl shit and being adorable. She’s the top so she gets most of the power/responsibility. I’m also super happy that my son is old enough/big enough to take out the garbage so that’s one less thing I have to do.

  24. Scott says:

    @Michael Reynolds:

    My role has expanded since I retired and my wife still works but:

    80% of cooking
    All laundry
    All bills and financial planning stuff
    All outdoor work (mowing, planting, etc.), garage considered outdoors.
    About 80% of cleaning. Basically I’m a better organizer and straigthener, she’s a better actual cleaner.
    100% of dog maintenance (poop patrol, walking)
    Attentive listening to wife’s day (she’s an elementary school counselor at a lower socioeconomic school with lots of problems).


    Menus and about 80% of shopping.
    Family relationship management
    Social activity planning (she directs, I execute)

  25. Mu Yixiao says:

    @Michael Reynolds:

    I’m a bachelor, so… 100% on me. 🙂

    Actually… 95%. I rent out my spare bedrooms, and the renters are responsible for their own rooms, their own kitchen mess, and the upstairs bathroom. The rest of the house and yard is on me.

  26. Franklin says:

    @Michael Reynolds: Before I was divorced, we probably took care of kid things 55/45 (she did slightly more, but very similar bedtime routines, school volunteering, etc.), but I had a full-time job and hers was very part-time. She did most shopping and cooking and decorating. I took care of laundry, trash, bills, maintenance, etc. We had a housekeeper that did most cleaning.

    Now it’s 50/50 since we’re in two households. That’s housework. Financial support is an entirely different matter, and let’s just say I’m doing my share.

  27. OzarkHillbilly says:

    @Michael Reynolds: I do all things kitchen – I do all the food shopping (Instacart), the put-away, the dishes, and I keep the counter more-or-less clean. We have a cleaning lady who comes in every other week to do floors and bathrooms. If there’s any cooking done – and it’s maybe twice a week with the rest being DoorDash – I do it. And of course I make cocktails.

    I too am in charge of the kitchen, while my wife does the vacuuming/dusting/bath. Laundry is 50/50. She feeds the animals but I do everything else.

  28. JohnMc says:

    May I add to the question about chores/division of labor?

    How big is the diff between what that division is now compared to the way you grew up? (Permanence of culture is a lifelong interst-topic of mine.)

  29. OzarkHillbilly says:

    @OzarkHillbilly: Oh yeah, I don’t do cat litter, my wife takes care of that.

  30. MarkedMan says:

    @JohnSF: Your jokes are eggsaperating

  31. CSK says:

    Don’t egg him on.

  32. gVOR08 says:

    Last Friday James did a post on Ben Sasse becoming the president of the University of Florida focusing on it being a good move for Sasse who, as an anti-Trump Republican is otherwise sort of without a home. Yesterday CNN ran an editorial by David M. Perry, a journalist/academic> Perry is somewhat concerned that Sasse’s religious objections to LGBT and abortion may cause problems in his relationship with the student body. But his real concern is with the opaque selection process allowed by a bill signed by DeUseless last year. DeUseless has been trying to control education, including UF, and Sasse’s religious beliefs fall in line with DeUseless’s prejudices and panders. Perry coins the term “regressive action” as the opposite of affirmative action. Regressive action is action to defend the status quo and support the privilege of white guys, like DeUseless and Sasse. It will be interesting to see how Sassse plays it, but I fear much of that will be out of sight.

    As to the process, the Tampa Bay Times reports the Republican state senator who pushed the law says they violated the spirit of the law. The intent was to allow early subjects of the search confidentiality so as to not jeopardize their current positions, then go public with the short list of finalists, not to hide the whole process from public scrutiny. Of course DeUseless, as a good Republican, would say he was in full compliance with the letter of the law so what’s your point?

  33. becca says:

    @de stijl: I had grape nuts and heavy cream once. I was very stoned, but I remember being effusive about its deliciousness.
    I switched from skim to whole milk and almond milk for everyday life. Skim milk tastes like water to me now. Skim doesn’t have a long shelf life, while whole milk keeps for weeks.

  34. Beth says:


    My mom did ALL the running the household except for the times my dad would grill in the summer or take care of the pool. My dad was the financial breadwinner and would use that to control the family when he wasn’t spending money like an insane butthole. Which I guess is it’s own form of control.

    I would also add that the division of labor in my marriage initially was very much the same as my parents/Cis-Het White Norms. It took a LOT of couples therapy to get to something different and even now there is still a lot of therapy work to be done about that. Now the disagreements over the division of labor basically boil down to mental health issues (her anxiety, my depression) and the differing values we put on things.

  35. gVOR08 says:

    Right after I posted @gVOR08: where I spoke of DeUseless’s desire to control education I went to WAPO and found a column by a Florida parent of a trans child. He is bemoaning just how terribly effective DeUseless’s Don’t Say Gay bill is.

    I wanted to remind the board of a tragic constant in human history that I saw at play again that day — the dynamic by which empathy, tolerance and love become weaker political motivations than disgust, fear and hatred.

    Seems like a pretty good summary of our current politics.

  36. Just nutha ignint cracker says:

    @Jax: Usually $1.49-1.79. I used to pay $3.00 for 10 eggs in Daejeon (eggs don’t come in dozens* there, don’t know why–or why they do here for that matter), but that was my first experience with “expensive” eggs. With only me to buy for, I don’t buy eggs often, though.

    *And they’re not sold in the refrigerator case either. I understand that it has to do with Korean eggs NOT being infected with salmonella in the shell, but I’m probably wrong on that.

  37. Just nutha ignint cracker says:

    @Mu Yixiao: Half and half is something that I have never purchased in my life and don’t recall my mother ever purchasing. (Of course, as a tea drinker, she only put milk in to begin with and my father drank coffee black.)

  38. Just nutha ignint crackere says:

    @MarkedMan: How do you get that much stuff into a rice bowl? The rice bowls I have at home barely hold a cup filled to the top.

  39. Jen says:

    @Jax: I’m in a rural area so I don’t buy at the store, but the farms around here are charging anywhere from $3/dozen to $6/dozen. It’s getting harder to find local eggs because of the loss of daylight, and only the larger places have lighting to fake daytime so the hens will keep laying.

    We’ve also had a spate of bear attacks on local coops, so that’s affecting availability too.

  40. CSK says:

    Nikolas Cruz, the Parkland Florida shooter, has been sentenced to life in prison without parole.

  41. Jen says:

    @Just nutha ignint cracker: Refrigerated vs. un-refrigerated has to do with how the eggs are handled. In the US, eggs are required to be washed before distribution and most do so with a bleach and water solution, which removes the protective cuticle on the shell. Since shells are porous, removal of the cuticle makes them far more susceptible to spoiling, thus the refrigeration requirement. Eggs in the UK/Europe aren’t refrigerated either.

  42. Sleeping Dog says:


    I have it on good authority that those bears are libertarians demonstrating their freedumb.

  43. Beth says:

    @Just nutha ignint cracker:

    My partner regularly makes fun of me because my coffee is usually 1/3 to 1/2 half & half. I’ve managed to ween myself off of having 2-3 tablespoons of sugar with it.

  44. Michael Reynolds says:

    My mother did all housework. She generally did not work outside the home and my dad had that tired old excuse of, “I’d totally do the dishes but I have to go fight a war in Vietnam.”

    Our rule has always been the most efficient person, with the freest schedule, does the job. I hate bills, so she does bills. She doesn’t actually know where the kitchen is, so I do all of that.

  45. Scott says:

    @JohnMc: This was in the 50s/60s until us kids got older and Mom went back to work (which she preferred).

    Mom did most of the housework, cleaning, cooking,etc.

    Also controlled the money (Dad made good money but he grew up fairly poor and like to spend it. Mom grew up fairly affluent but knew how to handle money.)

    Dad actually like to cook and took over that on weekends. He also did yard work but he didn’t like it. He was basically a city boy and Mom was suburban all the way and as the daughter of an engineer she know how to fix things so she was always handy with tools, paint, etc. Dad was willing but he needed direction on fixing and maintenance.

    It was all an interesting dynamic looking back at it.

  46. CSK says:

    @Sleeping Dog:

    It’s the bears’ version of “a chicken in every pot,” I suppose.

  47. Just nutha ignint cracker says:

    @CSK: The whole “I’m not white, I’m Italian” thing has been going on among Italian Americans that I’ve know for about 30 or 4o years, but up until this yahoo, it has been more of an in-house thing for conversations among wops than for sharing with the general public. My dad used to talk about the school in Cle Elum, Washington saying “I’m not sure we had any white kids there at all, we were all Italians, Greeks, Slavs, and whatnot.”


    For some reason, about the middle of the civil rights era, it became important to people of various Mediterranean and Central and Eastern European extractions who had come to US before WWI and II to emphasize their former non-assimilated status. I don’t know why but I’ve seen it continue occasionally over the years. LA mayor candidate is just the most recent one.

  48. MarkedMan says:

    @Just nutha ignint crackere: Its a pretty small bowl of cereal but, except for the shredded wheat, it’s pretty dense.

  49. Just nutha ignint cracker says:

    @Just nutha ignint cracker: The last paragraph of my post was supposed to be non-bolded, but I neglected to put the slash in the second HTML code. Let that be a lesson–syntax matters.

  50. Just Another Ex-Republican says:

    I do the cooking, dishes, shopping, and kitchen cleaning. My wife does laundry, vacuuming, and bathrooms. I handle cat litter and paying the bills, she handles things like vet appointments and oil changes (she has a much more flexible schedule than I). General tidiness depends on whose mess it is in the first place. She doesn’t want me in her craft supplies, and I don’t want her in my gaming c***.

    We point to each other when it comes to dusting, which means it doesn’t get done much 🙂

  51. BugManDan says:

    @Michael Reynolds: Cooking/groceries and anything else to do with food (other than dishes) is 50/50. Cocktails are mine.

    Any kind of repair work or outdoor stuff other than the flower beds is all me. We both take care of the flower beds…poorly!

    House cleaning the shared areas, dishes, and pets is for the kids. Kids also do their own laundry. Wife does ours (which makes up for outdoor and repairs).

    We split dropping/picking the kids up from school, but only a pain because of the wait in the afternoon.

    We both enter our bills into the computer. I do the monthly reconciliations and getting tax stuff together for the accountant.

    Comparing to my parents, my mom did more of the household stuff, but part of the time she didn’t have an outside job. I don’t know who did the money. Dad mowed and repaired. We took care of the garden, if we wanted to leave the yard and play!! Cooking was almost all my mom except on grilling and apple pie.

  52. Sleeping Dog says:

    @Just nutha ignint cracker:

    ,,,supposed to be non-bolded,…

    We figured you were just talking with your hands. 🙂

  53. Mikey says:


    Eggs in the UK/Europe aren’t refrigerated either.

    My wife and I moved from Germany to the U. S. in early 1993 and did not return to Germany until 2012. We went to the grocery store for a few things, including eggs. I went to the cooler section and couldn’t find eggs. Strange. Did I miss them? I went and got my wife and she couldn’t find them there either. What grocery store doesn’t carry eggs?

    Of course we walked around a corner and there were plenty of eggs sitting out unrefrigerated. We looked at each other and went “Ohhh yeah…they don’t refrigerate eggs here…”

    I followed up with “hey, I have an excuse, but YOU grew up here…” which really wasn’t fair since she’d spent nearly half her life in the U. S. at that point so it’s understandable she forgot about the eggs thing. But we still had a laugh.

  54. Just nutha ignint cracker says:

    @Michael Reynolds: @Neil Hudelson: @Beth: @Scott: I live alone, so I do 100%. Then again, I’m only cooking for me and I live in an “efficiency” (studio/hovel) apartment, and never have visitors over (nowhere for them to sit), so the total load is small.

    When I was married, we both claimed to be doing all of the work–part of the stress that eventually destroyed a not-particularly-happy-to-being-with relationship.

  55. Han says:

    @Jax: There was a bird flu epidemic this summer, and they had to slaughter tens of millions of laying hens. You can hatch new chickens in twenty-one days, but it’ll be another five months before those are laying regularly.

  56. Han says:

    @de stijl: My dad used to eat his cereal with a scoop of vanilla ice cream. Even after he was diagnosed diabetic.

  57. de stijl says:

    @Just nutha ignint cracker:

    I always drink coffee black.

    I always drink tea with honey and a splash of half and half.

    Why? No fucking idea. It’s what my taste buds want.

    When I was working I drank coffee like it was going out of style. An anxiety quelling coping mechanism. My baseline was semi-freaked out so I needed a stimulant to compensate and level out. I drank coffee all day every day. Gallons daily during workdays.

    After retiring, I mostly switched to tea and cut way back on my caffeine intake without even consciously thinking about it. I still make a press-pot of coffee in the morning 3 times a week or so. Two mugs max, no more and always right after waking up. I pee a lot on coffee days. But mostly, I’ve switched over to a pot or two of tea a day.

    Right after I quit smoking my coffee intake spiked insanely, and for chocolate, too. Like 10x normal. My brain craved substitute chemicals.

  58. Mister Bluster says:

    @JohnMc:..How big is the diff between what that division is now compared to the way you grew up?

    Through most of my gradeschool years in the ’50s and High School years (class of 1966) my mom was institutionalized in various State Hospitals the result of her schizophrenia diagnosis. Since I was the oldest of three I cooked most meals, drove my dad to and from the commuter train station before and after work and took my brother and sister back and forth to school. The last two years that I lived at home and attended Junior College mom’s condition was managed by medication so she was able to live at home too. In addition to the run of the mill housewife chores, she even had a part time job as a bagger at the Jewel Tea grocery store where I was a stock clerk.
    Today I have been living alone for at least 25 years and I don’t have to answer to anyone for my bad habits. If the EPA ever stumbled on my half acre hillside with my 1977 model trailer house I’m certain that they would declare it a toxic waste site.

  59. Mimai says:

    @Michael Reynolds:

    2021 data.

    The BLS website has lots of info showing trends over time. Enjoy.

  60. HarvardLaw92 says:


    Just out of curiosity, what’s the price for a dozen eggs where you guys all live?

    Around 3 Euros per dozen.

  61. de stijl says:

    The last time I did Breakfast for Dinner I overcooked the egg and the yolk set. Major bummer!

    I popped the yolk and instead of ooey, gooey scrumptiousness oozing everywhere, instead I got a firmly set yolk of yellow gruelly mass. I was super pissed-off and angry at myself.

    I’d fucked it up by not paying appropriate attention to the cook time. Idiot!

    I ate it anyway, but I was resentful and pissed.

  62. Jen says:

    @Michael Reynolds:

    Our rule has always been the most efficient person, with the freest schedule, does the job.

    This is roughly our backup rule. Generally speaking, I do the cooking, he does the dishes. I do laundry & inside cleaning, he does all of the lawn stuff/outside care, which includes dealing with the cars (cleaning and maintaining) and the snow removal (when necessary). But, if I’m swamped with work, he’ll do inside stuff, and if he’s busy, I’ll handle what needs to be done outside.

    One other rule we have: if it has to be done YOUR way, then YOU have to do it. Meaning, if one person is doing a chore, the other can’t stand around and correct.

  63. Kathy says:

    A few weeks ago Audible had a massive sale. It was a mere discount sale, but I grabbed a few titles for cheap, including a few I wouldn’t normally spend a credit on. This included the two sequels to Logan’s Run.

    I didn’t like the book enough to pay for the sequels, but seeing them at around $3 each I figured “why not?”

    Well, the first one, Logan’s World, at around three quarters in, has still to show any signs of plot. It’s more a series of adventures in exotic, futuristic places making use of exotic, futuristic weapons and stuff.

    Ok, much the same can be said of Logan’s Run, but in that one there was an overarching purpose. First Logan was looking into where Runners might disappear to, then he was Running himself. In the sequel, no such purpose or goal is apparent.

    And once again I have a desire to see the 70s movie. It’s on Prime Video, for rent. I may watch it after I’m through with The Expanse.

  64. JohnSF says:

    Being single, I’m the one who skips doing everything.
    I nag myself, but I just ignore me.

  65. Kathy says:

    @de stijl:

    Back in the 90s I met with friends at a coffee shop in the evening. We’d often order dinner form the breakfast menu, as it included juice or fruit, an entree, and coffee.

    It bears pointing out in Mexico dinner tends to be light and eaten later in the evening, around 8 pm. The big meal, with different courses and desert, is the mid-day meal, usually taken around 2 pm.

  66. Mu Yixiao says:


    And once again I have a desire to see the 70s movie. It’s on Prime Video, for rent. I may watch it after I’m through with The Expanse.

    The movie is pretty good–if very dated. Many of the themes hold up, but the visuals are very 70s. I don’t know if you can get it anywhere legitimate, but there’s also a Logan’s Run TV series that ran for one or two seasons fourteen episodes.

    The series depicted Logan and Jessica escaping from the City of Domes only to be pursued by Francis (Randolph Powell) and various other Sandmen. Traveling in a futuristic hovercraft-like vehicle which they find in an abandoned building in the remains of Washington DC, they embark on a trek through post-apocalyptic United States to find Sanctuary. On their journey, they encounter strange human societies, robots and aliens. The domed city (including Carousel) was seen only in the pilot and two other episodes, using recycled footage from the film. In a change from the book and film, the television series had the city secretly run by a cabal of older citizens who promised Francis a life beyond the age of 30 as a city elder if he can capture the fugitives. Logan and Jessica were joined on their journey by an android named Rem (played by Donald Moffat), whom they encounter in a futuristic city run by robots.

  67. charon says:

    Reading above, expensive eggs look like a local phonomenon, western or SW U.S.

    Eggs have become much more expensive in the Phoenix area these past few months, recently $4.99 for a dozen white cheapest store brand. A few months ago $1.99/dozen but often on sale for much less.

  68. charon says:

    @Mu Yixiao:

    I don’t know if still available, but I have DVD’s of the TV series.

  69. Mu Yixiao says:

    Reading the wiki page, it seems that my memory has smushed the movie and TV series together in some parts.

    When the pilot was presented to the network, CBS asked to have part of the pilot re-shot with changes to the plot, including the introduction of a cabal of city elders who secretly ruled over the Domed city. This change alters Francis 7’s motivations for pursuing Logan. In the film, his intent is to kill Logan for betrayal, but due to the introduction of the cabal, Francis is offered by them the chance to live beyond age 30 as a reward for bringing Logan and Jessica back to the city.

    I thought the elders were in the movie.

  70. MarkedMan says:

    @de stijl: You can’t account for taste. I have a visceral reaction to any egg that isn’t cooked solidly and completely all the way through. Even reading your description turned my stomach a little

  71. Kathy says:

    @Mu Yixiao:

    I saw the movie in the 70s when it was first in theaters. I liked it (and I was very young). I saw it again later, maybe in the 90s, either on cable or a video rental. I still liked it, and thought it held up well (but it was just the earliest days of CGI, so…)

    There are tons of differences between the book and movie. In some ways, the movie does a better job handling the compulsory euthanasia at a young age. The book does better depicting a society with only young people who don’t care much about the future (at that, in the book people die at age 21, not 30).

    BTW, the concept of a single futuristic city with odd attitudes about life and death, also shows up in one of Clarke’s novels*, “The City and the Stars.”

    But I class Logan’s Run more in line with movies like “Soylent Green,” which are partly a reflection of the concern, popular in the 70s, about overpopulation.

    I do recall there was a TV series. I even recall having seen it when it first ran, but I remember very little about it. This is also true of series I know I watched around that time, Planet of the Apes, The Six Million Dollar Man, The Bionic Woman, Wonder Woman, The Incredible Hulk, even older series that ran then like My Favorite Martian or Hogan’s Heroes.

    Oh, I’ve a thing for 1970s architecture and interior design. I call it retrofuturistic.

    *I should re-read that one soon.

  72. OzarkHillbilly says:

    @Beth: My partner regularly makes fun of me because my coffee is usually 1/3 to 1/2 half & half. I’ve managed to ween myself off of having 2-3 tablespoons of sugar with it.

    My wife has switched to sweetened condensed milk. Fairly decadent to hear her tell it.

  73. de stijl says:

    Odd food substitutions. I have half a batch maybe three or four meals of chicken curry (red) and maybe only one more serving of rice with stores on hand. After that, no more rice.

    I predict, by the end of the weekend, I will know what curry over elbow macaroni tastes like / feels like. It will be an adventure!

    Curry needs a carb base. Rice is preferred, but I will experiment if needs must.

  74. Kurtz says:


    Dude, where you been hiding?

    The specific discussions escape me at the moment, but I’ve recently wondered about your take a few times.

  75. OzarkHillbilly says:

    @Just Another Ex-Republican: she handles things like vet appointments and oil changes (she has a much more flexible schedule than I)

    I wish my wife did oil changes… When she should. I don’t mind doing them for her but the problem is I don’t drive her car enough to keep track of the miles. This last time she was pushing 10,000 miles.

  76. Michael Cain says:


    Just out of curiosity, what’s the price for a dozen eggs where you guys all live?

    Serendipity. For whatever reason, when I was at the grocery yesterday I walked from one end of the egg cooler to the other looking at prices. For a dozen, varied from $2.29 for the house brand mediums, up to $7.99 for the extra large ones with all the adjectives. Front Range Colorado.

  77. grumpy realist says:

    Eggs here in Chicago have gotten quite expensive but it isn’t across all the brands. I switched over to getting Amish farm eggs because they are at present in fact cheaper than anything else out there.

  78. OzarkHillbilly says:

    @Jen: One other rule we have: if it has to be done YOUR way, then YOU have to do it.

    We have a similar rule with a different bent: If you ask the other to do a thing for you, you have to accept it on their timeline. Otherwise, do it yourself.

  79. Kathy says:


    The last nutritionist who worked with us informed me the technical name of this product is “diabetic comma in a can.”

    @de stijl:

    Go on ahead. The food’s already dead and you can’t hurt it. The worse that can happen is you’ll wind up thinking “this doesn’t taste as I thought it would.”

  80. grumpy realist says:

    Who came up with THIS idea?!

    If anyone ever wants to argue that certain academicians have no idea about reality this looks to be Exhibit A….

  81. Mimai says:
  82. Scott says:

    @grumpy realist: Maybe elite schools should establish minimum academic qualifications and then put every school spot up for an auction. Would love to see that market place in action.

  83. MarkedMan says:

    I’ve been reluctant to weigh in on the division of labor discussion because although I feel like I know the answer, my wife might disagree with me. I learned back in my college days that every person in a shared apartment or house was always convinced they were doing more than their share, ones who did jack-sh*t

  84. Mimai says:


    Wouldn’t you know it, there’s data on that too…at least among cohabiting men and women.

    Men and women have different perceptions about who does more at home.

  85. Kathy says:


    If your intent is to drive up popcorn prices because you’re invested in popcorn futures, you need not bother:

    January 6 committee votes to subpoena Donald Trump
    The January 6 committee has unanimously voted to subpoena Donald Trump, in a long-shot attempt to compel his testimony before the bipartisan congressional panel investigating his supporters’ attack on the US Capitol.

  86. Sleeping Dog says:

    @grumpy realist:

    The best solution to the college cost situation that is equitable and offers the best outcomes for society that I’m aware of, came from Milton Friedman of all people. For X years post graduation the former student will pay Y percent of their income.

    If an Ivy League grad with a degree in child development wants to go to work in a daycare center, their student loans shouldn’t be a barrier. By the same token, the person who uses their contacts to make a million/year on Wall St will payback a lot.


    Or establish minimum qualifications and hold a lottery for admission spots.

  87. Joe says:

    @Michael Reynolds: My wife and I – recently married – were both single parents of teenage kids for the last decade. We got together as our kids moved away and, in conjunction with getting married, moved into her small house while we remodel our (formerly my) bigger house that we hope to get back to in the next two months. Since were both firmly habituated to doing everything ourselves, figuring out how we share all these is a work in progress.
    My guess is that we will continue to share cooking – including taking turns and working together – and clean up. In addition to a twice monthly maid service, she will probably be the primary housekeeper. I will probably take the lead in bill paying. I will fix and she will plant. She will take the lead on our social calendar and keeping track of the kids and their families.

    My parents had a very Ozzie & Harriett arrangement. Luckily I spent as much time paying attention to Mom’s Harriett routine as I did following my Dad’s Ozzie so when it became just me, I had the skills to run a house.

  88. Mu Yixiao says:

    @grumpy realist:


    That’s one of the most idiotic things I’ve read in a long time. And I scan the articles at Campus Reform!

  89. steve says:

    I have worked 60-70 hours/week or more since forever. We have been empty nesters for about 10 years. Wife does large majority of house stuff though I cook, do trash, outdoors stuff. I am retiring soon and we have talked over what I should pick up. She is very fussy about how a lot of stuff is done so we have agreed that she should continue those chores about which she is fussy, which I admit will work to my benefit, but then there are only two of us. She tries to make up for it by asking me to cook exotic stuff that takes a lot of time.


  90. KM says:

    Same. My coffee went from being a sugar bomb to mostly milky when trying to cut back on the sweets. It’s easier to go from light tan to black as my soul then sugared to unsugared. It helps that there’s a ton of “milk” options but sugar alternatives are all some form of the same nasty tasting chemical.

  91. Mu Yixiao says:


    Luckily I spent as much time paying attention to Mom’s Harriett routine as I did following my Dad’s Ozzie so when it became just me, I had the skills to run a house.

    Starting when I was big enough to see over the table (while standing on a chair!), my mother started teaching me how to cook, clean, do laundry, sew, etc. She said “You’re going to be a bachelor for at least part of your life, so you’re going to need these skills”.

    50 years later, I’m still a bachelor. And those skills have served me well. (I can’t believe the number of people that are surprised that I know how to cook.)

  92. daryl and his brother darryl says:

    Another banner day for the former guy.
    Subpoenaed by the January 6 Committee.
    Had his appeal to the SCOTUS, re: Special Master, denied.
    NYAG James filed a motion to stop his ongoing fraud in NY.
    I bet you can’t even buy ketchup in WPB.

  93. Tony W says:

    Married 33 years, we made a deal early on that I would pump gas in the cars and she’d do the laundry. She loves laundry!

    After I retired we basically stopped driving, I now have the better end of that deal.

    She still does 90% of the bathroom/floor/window cleaning as well as dusting. We split duties on living things, and I probably do more cooking than she does. One of my roles is keep everything in the house in top condition, so I’m always tightening a door jamb or fixing a garage spring.

    Mostly we do everything together. We have spent the last 4 days re-landscaping the yard, moving 5 tons of rock around after cutting out sod.

    Retired my ass.

  94. just nutha says:

    @Kathy: Partially about overpopulation, but mostly about genocide/patricide and cannibalism as workable methods of population control. 😉

  95. just nutha says:

    @Mimai: In other similar news, coworkers disagree about who “carries the weight” at work, too.

  96. Kathy says:

    @just nutha:

    There was a sketch in SNL years ago, I think one time John Goodman hosted, about sequels to Soylent Green. They brought up things like Soylent White (paper is made out of people), Soylent Teal (paint is made out of people), etc.

    I think it ended with Soylent Green II. Someone playing Charlton Heston’s character declares “Soylent Green is still made out of people! The didn’t change the recipe like they said they would!”

  97. MarkedMan says:

    @Sleeping Dog: My son went to McGill in Canada. The tuition there is highly dependent on the major. Engineering and Sciences? Full freight. (But markedly cheaper than equivalent US schools – McGill unofficial motto: “Harvard, the McGill of the South”) But if your degree was in social services? I think he said it was about a third ($10K US) with less for Canadian citizens, even less for Quebecois.

  98. wr says:

    @Kathy: “thought it held up well (but it was just the earliest days of CGI, so…)”

    Logan’s Run was made long before the earliest days of CGI. The special effects were all done the traditional ways under the supervision of L.B. Abbott, who’d been in charge at Fox for decades, with matte paintings by the great Matthew Yuricich.

    The earliest significan CGI work I can think of in a commercial feature was the Stained Glass Man in Young Sherlock Holmes from 1985. Maybe Tron, but that was mostly live action footage messed around with in post… (People like to claim there was CGI in the original Westworld, but what they’re referencing is far from what we think when we use the term…)

  99. Stormy Dragon says:


    IIRC, there was also “Soylent Cowpies” where the people were actually relieved because the food being made from people was better than what they thought it was made of.

  100. Jax says:

    Man, I feel like I just won the lottery! I buy chicken feed by the ton (I have many, many chickens), and the last ton of 16% protein layer pellets I priced out was gonna cost me almost $1,200. I happened to notice the local feed store’s weekly flyer today, and lo and behold…..16% layer pellets on sale! Big sale! AND the delivery truck had just arrived, so there was a freshly unloaded, still-wrapped pallet right there, ready to be loaded in my trailer!

    Final total, with the sale price, and the $1 off “bulk” discount? $649

    Seriously, I feel like I won something! 😛 😛

  101. Gustopher says:

    @grumpy realist: No cap on tuition for the wealthy? Eh, what’s wrong with it?

    Do we fear that this would discourage the wealthy from getting an education? Are we anticipating a wave of wastrels and failsons?

    I doubt it would change behaviors — George W. Bush was an Ivy Grad, after all, sporting a gentleman’s C, and the Trump lads and Hunter Biden all graduated from somewhere, probably.

    If the extremely wealthy decide that the cost of Harvard isn’t worth it, and send their kid to a community college… I think that would be fine.

    And it’s not like this will create more of the very wealthy and they will crowd out all other students. You’d need a breeding program for that.

    I say go for it. The charging a lot to rich kids, not the breeding program.

  102. Gustopher says:

    @Mu Yixiao:

    I’m a bachelor, so… 100% on me.

    Similar, but I only do about 80%

    I live in squalor.

  103. Joe says:

    @Mu Yixiao: Even when married I was then – and am now – the only one in the house who can hand hem a pleated skirt (daughter in Catholic school). Thanks, mom.

  104. Kathy says:


    I phrased that badly.

    I mean I saw Logan’s Run again before CGI enabled movies to have more and longer visual effects shots and sequences. Therefore older techniques might still have looked good then.

    For instance, I recall being amazed at the effects in Babylon 5. Having rewatched it recently, not so much.

    Tron used wire graphics transferred to film and hand painted in each frame. The original film still has a unique look no one has replicated (or bothered to replicate).

  105. OzarkHillbilly says:

    @Han: There was a bird flu epidemic this summer, and they had to slaughter tens of millions of laying hens. You can hatch new chickens in twenty-one days, but it’ll be another five months before those are laying regularly.

    FTR Han, Jax is well aware of all things chicken, seeing as she raises them for eggs and meat. The reminder of bird flu is well placed, as I also all but forgot to take it into account with my meat birds. I planned to lose 10% while expecting to lose more. As is, I only lost two.

  106. OzarkHillbilly says:

    @Kathy: My wife’s father loved it. Would dip his fresh from the baker bread in it every morning and then let my wife do the same with the leftovers.

    I have to admit that other than baking with it, I have no idea of how it tastes.

  107. OzarkHillbilly says:

    @MarkedMan: Well… you know… I do the vast majority of everything around here. Just ask my wife.

    On second thought, don’t.

  108. Gustopher says:

    @de stijl: There are a couple of Thai curries that have noodles — I think egg noodles, actually — so I expect your curry over elbow macaroni will be fine.

    Maybe not great, since this curry was likely expecting to be paired with jasmine rice, and the density and texture is as wrong as flavor, but at least fine.

    (And my fever is gone, I walked to coffee shop and back… that might be enough for the day, but coffee was missed. And outdoors. Woo.)

    ETA: Rice bolognese, however, might suggest decomposing roadkill with the textures. Probably quite tasty decomposing roadkill, if you could get past the texture.

  109. Kathy says:


    I think “diabetic comma in a can” is a succinct description of its flavor.

    It’s quite popular in Mexico, sold by Nestle with the brand “La Lechera.” Nowadays it’s sold in tiny cans kids love to drink it from, and also in squeeze bottles and pouches. It now comes in different flavors, too. There’s a version sold as a spread, too.

    I haven’t had it in years, except occasionally in a cake called three-milks cake (whole, evaporated, and condensed milk is used to make it). It’s thicker than regular milk, but not quite as thick as maple or corn syrup, and very, very sweet. the regular kind has 47 grams of added sugar per 100 grams of product, or in other words, it’s 47% added sugar. Count the sugars naturally found in milk, and it’s 60%.

  110. OzarkHillbilly says:

    @Jax: WooooHoooo! You go, girl!!!

  111. Michael Cain says:

    My father, the former US Navy petty officer, drilled two things into his children: everyone should be able to do all the chores, and if you find a chore that needs to be done just do it. Or, if you have sufficient authority, delegate it immediately. (Mom was in favor, since it meant that as soon as we were big enough she could offload stuff to me and my sister.) The second part of that got me into trouble, and Dad into more, when we were at my Grandparents Cain for some holiday. I was probably 12. The adults went off to do some adult thing for a couple of hours. When they came back I was just finishing up stripping and waxing the kitchen floor because “well, it needed doing.”

    Enough of my wife’s memory has disappeared now that she doesn’t remember how much it used to annoy her that I would walk around the apartment/house/yard to see if there was anything that “needed doing.”

  112. JohnSF says:

    Problems that may arise:
    – Child says they have split from family.What next?
    – At what age does the parent wealth stop being taken into account?
    – What is the threshold; is it tapered or cut off, at bottom. And at top no limit percentage or what?
    – Where is the data obtained, and checked in cases of argument?
    – Do colleges have access to Inland Revenue returns? Can they request an audit?

    Looks to me like one of those ideas that sound just fine in the abstract, but fail to thrive in a world also inhabited by numerous creatively corkscrew minded lawyers and accountants.

  113. JohnSF says:

    That sort of bargain’s not chicken feed…oh, wait…

  114. OzarkHillbilly says:

    @Michael Cain: Sounds like me on a job site. The last thing one wants is to be seen with their thumbs up their ass. As an added bonus, makes the day go a whole lot quicker.

  115. Michael Cain says:


    Therefore older techniques might still have looked good then.

    A few things have held up remarkably well over the years. Terminator 2 pretty much redefined what was possible with CGI when it was done 30 years ago. The bullet holes when the T-1000 is shot still look good. When I first watched it all those years ago, and seeing the other “liquid metal” effects that I knew were CGI, it never occurred to me that those weren’t.

  116. Just nutha ignint cracker says:

    @JohnSF: In answer to your questions:
    1) This situation could require some paperwork verifying the actual emancipation of the child. Or the social contract could assert that the parents are on the hook no matter what (my preference).
    2) Parental wealth can be removed from account at whatever age an heir reaches at which s/he could no longer inherit said parental wealth.
    3) I didn’t read the article, but I’m sure that in Corporatist US/UK, whatever rules are made will be tilted to the best interest of the holders of capital with the “larger your capital holdings, the more the rules bend toward you” rule firmly in place. (Which is at the root of my positions on questions one and two. 😉 )
    4 & 5) Many nations currently have quite invasive enough reporting/information gathering systems that they can do people’s tax returns for them already (even the US largely has this ability, we simply prefer to leave the system to the good graces and honesty of tax accountants and in-house bookkeepers/CFOs/whatnot with the legislatures torquing laws to their advantage as necessary). A plug-in of some sort to set a basic charge subject to appeal should be easy to accomodate without requiring a massive added bureaucracy. Of course, any nations wishing to create a massive bureaucracy are welcome to. It’s beyond the scope of my humble crackerness to tell nations how to run their governments.

  117. Michael Cain says:

    @OzarkHillbilly: Somewhere early along the line, I learned that there were all sorts of interesting things you could do in your head while taking care of mindless physical chores that had to be done, or when just waiting. I didn’t really realize how much it had been completely ingrained, to the point other people noticed, until many years later. My boss was making the presentation to the board about the value of a particular technical project. I was there on the off chance that someone on the board’s staff wanted to ask a real technical question. I wasn’t allowed in the room unless called on. A couple of administrative types there in the C-suite were concerned that I would be bored just sitting in the hall, could they get me magazines or newspapers or something. “Leave him alone,” my boss told them. “He’ll sit here folding Hilbert spaces in his head just for practice, and be fine.”

  118. Jax says:
  119. Kathy says:


    Those things are dangerous.

    Take this from the article: “The hot springs run at a temperature of around 92°C” That’s almost the boiling point of water in Mexico City (2,240 meters above sea level). That will kill you easily.

  120. Gustopher says:


    Problems that may arise

    If the children of the very wealthy were all just fed into woodchippers, would the world be a better or worse place? I’m thinking probably better. But, this proposal is just to charge them a bit of money.

    So if a few fall by the wayside, and cannot afford a college education, I’m ok with that. Not all policies have to be perfect — does it do more good than harm? Go for it.

    All of your objections are noted, but rejected.

  121. Gustopher says:

    @Gustopher: No edit function. Wanted to add:

    Oh noes! They might have to go to a trade school like regular people! The tragedy! Or never get an higher education of any kind and be forced to live like the majority of people!

  122. Jax says:

    @Kathy: We have some mudpots on our land that some people from UW geology department said were connected to Yellowstone, deep underground. I check them sumbitches daily, sometimes, because they move and they’ll swallow a cow, horse, or person if they step in the wrong place.

    I fell in one, once. I had my thigh-high irrigating boots on (I call them my hooker boots 😉 ), and the girls and I were throwing rocks into the mud. My right foot was solid and my left slipped into the mud. The kids had to drag me out. Ruined my boots.

    I’ll never forget that left step, falling into nothing.

  123. Just nutha ignint cracker says:

    @Gustopher: I suspect the real fear is “Oh noes, they’ll end up depleting my wealth prematurely.” 🙁

  124. Franklin says:

    @Kathy: I remember that episode, yes I’m pretty sure it was one with Goodman hosting. Probably Phil Hartman playing Heston. I thought the line was hilarious.

  125. Ok’ Nat says:

    We picked up on a Mark Bittman oatmeal recipe a while ago. 4 parts (extra thick!) rolled oats 4 parts chopped walnuts 3 parts raisins. My wife uses milk and I use buttermilk. Let it soak for a little time and it’s perfect. No cooking, never gets mushy.

  126. Gustopher says:

    @Just nutha ignint cracker: We throw away so many people in this society… why should I be bothered if we skew things so it’s a couple of kids of the very wealthy that fall through the cracks and get mashed by the gears? Where they are standing, the gears have the least destructive teeth.


    Ok, let’s tissue type all college kids, and give free motorcycles to the wealthy ones with the most universal tissue types… get them to sign organ donor cards as part of the process. Maybe add in some of those new Apple Watches that will call 911 if they get into an accident, so the organs are fresh?

  127. wr says:

    @Kathy: I remember seeing Tron when it came out and thinking “Wow, that really does look different from everything else. Of course it looks hideous, bit it’s definitely different…”

    And sorry for misunderstanding you. At least it gave me a chance to wax pedantic!

  128. MWLib says:

    The thread about “who did do and who does what” was really interesting to me, and made me think about my own experiences quite a bit.
    When I was a kid, we lived on a farm about 50 miles away from Cleveland, Ohio. I suspect that this was to be out of the blast zone if the Cold War turned hot and Cleveland got nuked. We lived there until I was 12. Both of my parents worked (in Cleveland) so a lot of their day was spent commuting and working, but I had 4 older brothers who did a lot of the grunt work of lawn mowing, wood chopping, snow clearing and so on. My mother’s parents lived with us, so they did a lot of the child watching (for me), as my brothers weren’t always the best providers of kid care due to the 10 year age difference between my next older brother and me.
    Most chores were shared pretty equally between my parents, with a massive grocery buying trip every Saturday in order to buy a weeks worth of food for 9 people in the household, always done by them both (at least if my father was not travelling for business and out of the country). My mom did most of the cooking, or at least most of the prep work and counted on my older brothers to put things in the oven, and set the table for dinner. She also did all of the baking and was a very good pie maker. My dad did grilling in the summer, and often burned the hamburgers, but I remember that fondly in retrospect. Cleaning…I just don’t recall any specific pattern of who did what except that after dinner it was always the boys’ responsibility to clear the table and wash the dishes. I’m sure someone had to vacuum and dust, but don’t recall clearly who did that stuff. Laundry was a shared activity, my Mom ran the washer but all the boys hung cloths on the line to dry (most of the year) and were responsible for folding and putting everything away.
    My mother was a working woman, a sort of rare thing when I was a kid (late 50’s and 60’s), but always provided a lot of parental support for sports, school events, etc., along with my father. They did a lot of things as a team, really.
    My Pop was both the chief of the local volunteer fire department AND the (first male) President of the PTA at my elementary school.
    Looking back, I realize that my parents weren’t really “gender stereotypical” for their time and place in rural northeast Ohio. I think that has served me pretty well ever since.
    After my Mom died when I was 15, I really don’t recall there being any big change in general household cleanliness or in the kind of food we ate, although by then the household was down to just my father, one brother and myself. By then, I was old enough to do a fair amount of the lawn care, snow removal and other heavy lifting and toting. My father remarried a much younger woman when I was a senior in high school, and I really moved out and off to college and my own adulthood not long after, so I don’t know how things ran in that household.
    I did learn from my parents how to cook, sew buttons on, do laundry, iron my clothes and generally maintain a functional lifestyle, which I now appreciate more than I realized I should have at the time.
    In the 41 years that my wife and I have been married, we generally share most household chore fairly evenly, although her knee problems have seriously impacted her ability to do laundry and gardening functions the past few years. This year, she got two new knees, so I hope that restores a bit of balance going forward. I’ve been doing most (90%?) of the shopping and 100% of the laundry while she has been so immobilized. I’ve always done nearly all of the lawn and snow removal, mainly because I enjoy the exercise (although not the work per se). My wife has always done a lot (but not all) of the cooking, and she has experimented with veganism among other cooking styles. I occasionally cook, and I was fortunate to take some cooking classes while I was a student in France (in Dijon, Burgundy) shortly after my Mom died. I think my father wanted to drink but not with me in the house, so I spent a summer there the summer I turned 16. I’m not a foodie, and neither is my wife, so cooking is more like a chore than a hobby for us both. And as we have gotten older, carryout and delivery food has become a larger part of our evening “meal planning”.
    Anyway, this was a very thought-provoking thread, and I appreciate being able to post my story.