Thursday’s Forum

FILED UNDER: Open Forum
Steven L. Taylor
About Steven L. Taylor
Steven L. Taylor is a Professor of Political Science and a College of Arts and Sciences Dean. His main areas of expertise include parties, elections, and the institutional design of democracies. His most recent book is the co-authored A Different Democracy: American Government in a 31-Country Perspective. He earned his Ph.D. from the University of Texas and his BA from the University of California, Irvine. He has been blogging since 2003 (originally at the now defunct Poliblog). Follow Steven on Twitter

Comments

  1. Flat Earth Luddite says:
  2. OzarkHillbilly says:

    @Flat Earth Luddite: I was talking to my Mallorcan born wife about Tommy last night and even tho she didn’t get here until well after the show was cancelled, she knew of him.

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  3. MarkedMan says:

    This is real. It’s not a parody.

    Nikki Haley was confronted on Wednesday by a voter in New Hampshire who called her out for not mentioning slavery in her response to his question about the cause of the Civil War.

    Haley — who, as governor of South Carolina, ultimately called for the removal of the Confederate battle flag from the statehouse grounds — told the crowd that the war was about government interfering in people’s freedoms.

    “I mean, I think the cause of the Civil War was basically how government was going to run. The freedoms and what people could and couldn’t do,” Haley said in a visit to Berlin — the first of five events in the Granite State as she attempts to close the gap with Republican front-runner Donald Trump ahead of next month’s primary.

    The former UN ambassador then asked the voter what he thought the cause of the Civil War was, to which the voter responded, “I’m not running for president.”

    “I think it always comes down to the role of government and what the rights of the people are,” Haley added. “I will always stand by the fact that I think government was intended to secure the rights and freedoms of the people. It was never meant to be all things to all people,” she added.

    The voter criticized her for not mentioning slavery in her answer. “In the year 2023, it’s astonishing to me that you answer that question without mentioning the word slavery,” the voter said.

    “What do you want me to say about slavery?” Haley asked.

    “You answered my question,” he responded.

    “Next question,” Haley said as attendees applauded.

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  4. OzarkHillbilly says:

    Today in “An armed society is a polite society.”

    The argument over gifts started while the three siblings were Christmas shopping with their mother and the sister’s two sons, ages six and 11 months. It continued when they went to their grandmother’s house where the sister, 23, told the younger brother to stop arguing with his older brother since it was Christmas Eve. The younger brother then told his sister he was going to shoot her and her infant, and then he shot her in the chest, the sheriff’s office said.

    The older brother then shot his younger brother outside the home because of what he had done to their sister and he fled the home, tossing his firearm in a nearby yard, authorities said. He was taken to a mental health facility after he was located since he had threatened to harm himself. Once he is released from the mental health facility, he will be taken to a juvenile detention center, the news release said.

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  5. OzarkHillbilly says:

    @MarkedMan:

    “I will always stand by the fact that I think government was intended to secure the rights and freedoms of the people.”

    She left out “some”.

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  6. MarkedMan says:

    Governor Haley presents a good opportunity to go over why her State, South Carolina, seceded from the union, in their own words as presented in their declaration of secession. In the first sentence, they make it clear its about slavery:

    The people of the State of South Carolina, in Convention assembled, on the 26th day of April, A.D., 1852, declared that the frequent violations of the Constitution of the United States, by the Federal Government, and its encroachments upon the reserved rights of the States, fully justified this State in then withdrawing from the Federal Union; but in deference to the opinions and wishes of the other slaveholding States, she forbore at that time to exercise this right. Since that time, these encroachments have continued to increase, and further forbearance ceases to be a virtue.

    Next follows a whole lot of legalistic mumbo jumbo about why seceding is legal in their eyes. Then, with that out of the way, they get right back to slavery.

    We assert that fourteen of the States have deliberately refused, for years past, to fulfill their constitutional obligations, and we refer to their own Statutes for the proof.

    The Constitution of the United States, in its fourth Article, provides as follows: “No person held to service or labor in one State, under the laws thereof, escaping into another, shall, in consequence of any law or regulation therein, be discharged from such service or labor, but shall be delivered up, on claim of the party to whom such service or labor may be due.”

    This stipulation was so material to the compact, that without it that compact would not have been made. The greater number of the contracting parties held slaves, and they had previously evinced their estimate of the value of such a stipulation by making it a condition in the Ordinance for the government of the territory ceded by Virginia, which now composes the States north of the Ohio River.

    The same article of the Constitution stipulates also for rendition by the several States of fugitives from justice from the other States.

    The General Government, as the common agent, passed laws to carry into effect these stipulations of the States. For many years these laws were executed. But an increasing hostility on the part of the non-slaveholding States to the institution of slavery, has led to a disregard of their obligations, and the laws of the General Government have ceased to effect the objects of the Constitution.

    Some more whining, then

    The right of property in slaves was recognized by giving to free persons distinct political rights, by giving them the right to represent, and burthening them with direct taxes for three-fifths of their slaves; by authorizing the importation of slaves for twenty years; and by stipulating for the rendition of fugitives from labor.

    We affirm that these ends for which this Government was instituted have been defeated, and the Government itself has been made destructive of them by the action of the non-slaveholding States. Those States have assume the right of deciding upon the propriety of our domestic institutions; and have denied the rights of property established in fifteen of the States and recognized by the Constitution; they have denounced as sinful the institution of slavery; they have permitted open establishment among them of societies, whose avowed object is to disturb the peace and to eloign the property of the citizens of other States. They have encouraged and assisted thousands of our slaves to leave their homes; and those who remain, have been incited by emissaries, books and pictures to servile insurrection.

    A geographical line has been drawn across the Union, and all the States north of that line have united in the election of a man to the high office of President of the United States, whose opinions and purposes are hostile to slavery. He is to be entrusted with the administration of the common Government, because he has declared that that “Government cannot endure permanently half slave, half free,” and that the public mind must rest in the belief that slavery is in the course of ultimate extinction.

    This sectional combination for the submersion of the Constitution, has been aided in some of the States by elevating to citizenship, persons who, by the supreme law of the land, are incapable of becoming citizens; and their votes have been used to inaugurate a new policy, hostile to the South, and destructive of its beliefs and safety.

    Bottom line, the whole document consists of two things: explaining why South Carolina has the right to secede, and stating and restating that the reason is because they want to protect the enslavement of people. There are no other reasons given in the document for secession.

    In Nikki Haley’s State of South Carolina the only reason given for succession was slavery. Full stop.

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  7. Jen says:

    @MarkedMan: The entire exchange is unsurprising. When I lived in Missouri, I dated a guy who was insistent that the Civil War was fought over “states’ rights,” to which I always added, “yeah, the belief that a state’s rights extended to owning people.” The relationship didn’t last long. The “war of Northern aggression” crowd doesn’t do historical accuracy.

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  8. OzarkHillbilly says:

    Today in “I never thought the Leopards would eat my face” news:

    In early December, a rightwing Wisconsin organization called HOT Government sent out a breathless email: Mike Lindell, the pillow salesman turned election conspiracy theorist and staunch Donald Trump ally, had nominated an important Wisconsin politician for a dubious award.

    The prize would go to the person who exemplifies “leadership in BEING AN OBSTACLE TO STOPPING ELECTION CRIME”, the email declared.

    Lindell’s target wasn’t a Democrat, nonpartisan election official or even a moderate Republican – it was Robin Vos, the powerful Wisconsin Republican assembly speaker.

    The nomination reflects a stark turn of fortunes for Vos, who has spent more than a decade using every tool at his disposal to cement Republican power in Wisconsin, touting a deeply conservative record including on voting.

    Vos helped re-draw the state’s legislative maps in 2011, ensuring Republican control of the legislature ever since. The same year, he followed former Republican governor Scott Walker’s lead in creating the most restrictive voter identification law in the country and passing legislation to kneecap union power in a state where organized labor was once the core of the Democratic coalition.

    Vos was elected speaker of the assembly in 2013 and has used his years in office since to shore up his party’s minoritarian lock on power in the swing state. When Republicans lost the governorship in 2018, the assembly quickly passed legislation that curbed the power of the incoming Democratic governor. And after Trump lost the state in 2020, Vos initiated an investigation into Wisconsin’s election, hiring a promoter of the “Stop the Steal” movement to lead it.

    He was in all respects a loyal rightwinger. But Vos has drawn a line at embracing Trump’s false claim that he actually won Wisconsin in 2020 and refused to join colleagues who suggested overturning the 2020 election. His unwillingness to cross that line has turned him into a pariah on the far right, a target of Lindell, an enemy of Trump and a symbol of the current state of the Republican party where loyalty to Trump is the key litmus test.

    Couldn’t happen to a nicer guy.

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  9. Kathy says:

    @MarkedMan:
    @Jen:

    You believe the evidence over their delusions? Isn’t that patently un-American?

    On other things, look for Swifties to start a GoFundMe soon.

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  10. OzarkHillbilly says:

    @Kathy: Spain will seize it as partial payment towards her back taxes.

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  11. gVOR10 says:

    The Guardian has a story today about immigration, mostly the politics for Biden of immigration. For me the highlight of the story is the top picture. Migrants streaming through a hole in Trump’s wall.

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  12. Chip Daniels says:

    @OzarkHillbilly:

    I can’t recall a single incident in my 60 some years on this planet, which would have had a better outcome if I had had a gun.

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  13. Jen says:

    Colorado dipsh!t Lauren Boebert has decided to switch House districts for a better chance of winning.

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  14. Kathy says:

    @OzarkHillbilly:

    She doesn’t own it.

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  15. OzarkHillbilly says:

    @Kathy: I know. It was a joke.

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  16. MarkedMan says:

    @Chip Daniels: Gun nuts believe absolutely that having a gun makes them safer, despite the real life overwhelming odds that if used it will be against someone they know, with the most likely by far being themselves. We just had a teacher here who bought a gun to school in violation of policy because of “danger”. She claims she didn’t mean to bring it inside, which I guess means she usually leaves it in the glove compartment or under the seat, i.e. “Criminal 7-11 for Guns”. She then dropped the bag it was in without realizing it. Fortunately it was found by a janitor and not a 6 year old.

    More and more I’m convinced that owning a gun just makes you stupider.

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  17. Slugger says:

    @MarkedMan: I wonder if Ms. Haley thinks the right side won?

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  18. @MarkedMan: I just noted that and wrote post, in fact.

    Sigh.

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  19. Bill Jempty says:

    I had a sleep study done in October
    I had a sleep study done in November where I was fitted for a mask.

    After that I should have gotten a cpap machine
    That hasn’t happened.

    I have a 3:15 appointment today with the pulmonologist who supposedly wants me to undergo a 3rd sleep study.

    Right now I don’t feel like going. Why the hell do I need to go through this again and then see him again…blah…blah…blah

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  20. Jen says:

    @Bill Jempty: This is so bizarre–what is the holdup? Has anyone explained the need for a THIRD study? The health care system is so strange.

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  21. MarkedMan says:

    @Bill Jempty: I wonder if they are milking your insurance?

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  22. Just nutha ignint cracker says:
  23. Michael Reynolds says:

    Once this Ukraine Special Military Operation is concluded, we should think about a program that would send competent Western carpenters to Russia. They’re having a lot of problems with window installation.

    A Russian lawmaker from Vladimir Putin’s United Russia party has been found dead under mysterious circumstances at the age of 46.

    Vladimir Yegorov, a deputy of the Tobolsk City Duma in the Tyumen region, was found lifeless Wednesday in a courtyard in Tobolsk, according to Baza.

    Russian state media confirmed his death, with a law enforcement source telling TASS: “A body was discovered, the fact of death was confirmed, investigators are establishing all the circumstances.”

    Investigators said there were no “external signs of a criminal death” on Yegorov’s body, according to Kommersant. But it remains unclear how he died.

    Bizarrely, Baza reported that he was believed to have fallen out a third-floor window, and local outlet 72.ru cited witnesses who backed up that account. But another unnamed source told the outlet it was more likely Yegorov had died from “heart problems.”

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  24. Just nutha ignint cracker says:

    @Michael Reynolds:

    …, Baza reported that he was believed to have fallen out a third-floor window…

    Asked the question “does a fall from a 3rd story window usually result in death,” ChatBingAI provided the following answer:

    Falls from a third story window can be fatal, but the chances of survival depend on several factors such as the surface you land on, the angle of impact, and the velocity of the fall. According to a study by CBS News, falls from windows injure around 5,000 children each year in the United States, and less than 1% of these cases lead to death1. However, the mortality rate increases with the height of the fall. For instance, the median lethal distance for falls is four stories or 48 feet, according to the reference book Trauma Anesthesia. This means that 50% of patients who fall four stories will die. The chance of death increases to 90% when the fall is seven stories23.

    The answer expands into questions involving results dependent on what kind of surface upon which one falls, but the overall is that 3 stories seems to not be high enough in general. Make of this what you will; it is an answer from an AI program, after all.

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  25. Grumpy realist says:

    @OzarkHillbilly: Obligatory “it’s Flori-DUH” comment.

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  26. MarkedMan says:

    God help Baltimore, I just saw this in our local paper:

    Can blockchain help Baltimore with its vacant property problem?

    Let me answer that: No. No it can’t. And blowing money on a company that is either run by deluded libertarians or just outright con artists isn’t going to change that. Nothing in the article points to anything that would be done by blockchain that couldn’t be done by a traditional database. And all the positive benefits come from a supposed future in which this blockchain repository is deemed by the courts as having as much validity as traditional records, a rather huge ask. As stated in the article itself: ““Blockchain is the first step,” El Husseini said. “The second step … is making the ability and the purpose of the blockchain to be useful.””

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  27. Kathy says:

    @OzarkHillbilly:

    I was in a hurry.

    So, (way) too late: Taylor doesn’t owe money to the Spanish tax authorities.

    Better?

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  28. Michael Reynolds says:

    @Just nutha ignint cracker:
    I think falling from a window is more likely to be fatal if a KGB agent shoots you in the head after you hit the pavement.

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  29. DK says:

    @Michael Reynolds: Defenestrators gonna defenestrate.

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  30. Flat Earth Luddite says:

    @Michael Reynolds:

    In my experience, downward shot into body/pavement= bad idea. No way to know where the richochet is gonna go. (Better if the body’s on dirt/loam. Easier to make sure his hands are tied behind his back before you run him out the window at a high rate of speed. However, as always, ymmv.

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  31. OzarkHillbilly says:

    @Kathy: Ah, got it. You know it’s not funny when you have to explain a joke. 😉

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  32. Kathy says:

    @Just nutha ignint cracker:

    Third floor is not a precise measurement. The house I grew up in had low ceilings, and therefore shorter floors. the apartment I live in now has higher ceilings and taller floors. I guesstimate if you placed both at ground level side by side, the top of the house’s second floor would reach about halfway to the building’s second floor.

    So the question is how high this particular third floor was.

    That aside, there’s the matter of what struck the ground first, and at what angle.

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  33. DrDaveT says:

    @Michael Reynolds:

    I think falling from a window is more likely to be fatal if a KGB agent shoots you in the head after you hit the pavement.

    Or even before you fall.

    Of course, given the stated “heart problems” I suspect he was shot somewhat lower.

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  34. Kathy says:

    @DrDaveT:

    A bullet wound is hard to miss or cover up.

    So how’s this? NKVD agent poisons victim, then throws them a bit later out the window from a third floor height. Evidently the fall killed them, and there’s no reason to look for poison.

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  35. Just nutha ignint cracker says:

    @Michael Reynolds: Why not before? The force of impact of the bullet should be sufficient to propel you through the window. (Maybe even if it’s still closed, if it’s a big enough gun.)

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  36. Just nutha ignint cracker says:

    @Kathy: And there’s always the case of a British-style manor house–where the third floor is actually the fourth (because the “ground floor” is not given an ordinal number).
    ETA: “A bullet wound is hard to miss or cover up.”
    Doesn’t that depend on what one is looking (or, in some cases, not looking) for?

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  37. Kathy says:

    Maduro’s reaction to one Royal Navy ship reminds me of the joke about the Canadian governor that asks the government in Ottawa for some RCMP officers to deal with a riot. The next day one Mountie reports to the governor.

    “They only sent you?” the governor asks in horror.

    “Yes, sir,” the officer replies. “You only have one riot, after all.”

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  38. OzarkHillbilly says:

    It’s Russia, the cover up consists of telling the “journalists” what to say, under penalty of death.

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  39. Mister Bluster says:

    Maine Secretary of State blocks Trump from primary ballot.
    Washington Post

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  40. Kathy says:

    @Mister Bluster:

    That’s even better than Colorado. Der Kleine Fhürer has to challenge the decision in court.

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  41. CSK says:

    Maine has kicked Trump off the ballot

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  42. Kathy says:

    The not so big aviation news, is that Mexicana has arisen and is flying to a few destinations.

    Now it’s run by the Mexican armed forces for some reason. they’ve been having a hell of a time getting an operations certificate, and an even harder time leasing aircraft. Kind of hard to fly without airplanes, or so I hear.

    Right now it has 3 older B 737s on loan from Mexico’s Air Force. It’s pretty common for new airlines to start with used airplanes, leased or bought at lower prices. Operating military transports, or whatever these were/are, is new to me.

    The overlooked news is that an equally dead Mexicana affiliate, Mexicana Link, was also resurrected. You can see the route map here.

    There’s little room for sentiment in the airline industry, although there’s plenty among commercial aviation enthusiasts. So re-using a dead airline’s name means little past marketing. there’s a new iteration of Eastern, and there was one of Pan Am. They tend to remain obscure or go broke…

    Mexicana was good, and died before the legacy airlines began downgrading services and charging fees for everything. I last flew it in 2010, before it collapsed. At the time, they still had hot meals in economy for international flights. these days most narrowbody aircraft don’t even have facilities for reheating food.

    Had it stuck around past 2010, it would be as crummy as most older airlines are.

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  43. Kathy says:

    @Mister Bluster:
    @CSK:

    On the one hand, this may be like the indictments. Once one came up, others followed. Now we may see more states disqualify Der Kleine Führer.

    On the other hand, the Kraken Korps has people, like Eastman, who believe in all sorts of imaginary, magical remedies for legal issues. So they’ll do all sorts of things they claim are lawful, which aren’t. Like urge faithless electors to vote Fuhrer, regardless of the actual results, especially in states where Orange Clown wasn’t on the ballot.

    Also, it’s likely Der Klein has learned, unlikely as that seems, that he cannot and won’t ever win in a court of law, but he can cunt on “winning” the public opinion battles. As the only opinion that matters is that of the Brownshirt Brigade.

    So, even if the election is called for Biden on election night, expect nonstop lawsuits, noise, sh*t-flinging in all directions, and ever more desperate calls for violent action to “save” the country. This time, I also expect actual violence before and after the election. maybe during the election, too. It may be the only way Der Kleine Fuhrer can win is by physically preventing people from voting.

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