Thursday’s Forum

James Joyner
About James Joyner
James Joyner is Professor and Department Head of Security Studies at Marine Corps University's Command and Staff College. He's a former Army officer and Desert Storm veteran. Views expressed here are his own. Follow James on Twitter @DrJJoyner.


  1. OzarkHillbilly says:

    JEFFERSON CITY, Mo. — Businesses, churches, schools and health care providers will be protected from lawsuits regarding the pandemic under a new law in Missouri.

    Back in January, Gov. Mike Parson made COVID liability protection a top priority for lawmakers. Parson said Wednesday at the signing for Senate Bill 51 the pandemic was one of the most “dramatic emergencies” to ever hit the state. The new law exempts business owners and health care providers from being sued for spreading COVID unless proven by clear and convincing evidence.

    Protecting people from Covid? Nah, we don’t do that. Because “freedom” and all that. Making sure businesses can’t be sued for being covid superspreaders? Absolutely! Because Freedumb! and all that.

    And I just love that “proven by clear and convincing evidence” bullshit. Sounds like a higher bar than “beyond a reasonable doubt” to me.

    The same day Parson signed the COVID liability bill into law, Missouri recorded more than 1,000 new COVID cases for the first time in nearly five months. In addition, some counties in the state are seeing a rising number of the Delta variant.


  2. JohnSF says:

    In the context of yesterdays comments on religion:
    We now have positive proof that
    – there is a god
    – she is an England fan
    England 2 Denmark 1
    Play Italy in the finals on Sunday.

  3. Mikey says:

    @OzarkHillbilly: I’ve seen several interviews with health care workers in Missouri. They all say the same thing: this is the worst they’ve seen it, the patients are much younger than before, and they are much sicker.

    But hey, as far as the GOP is concerned, better that a few hundred young people die than any big business gets held responsible for helping kill them, right?

  4. Roger says:


    And I just love that “proven by clear and convincing evidence” bullshit. Sounds like a higher bar than “beyond a reasonable doubt” to me.

    It’s a mid-level burden of proof. Most elements of a civil civil case must be proven by a preponderance of the evidence: they must be more likely true than not true. Elements of a criminal case must be proven beyond a reasonable doubt: unhelpfully defined in Missouri as “doubt based upon reason and common sense after careful and impartial consideration of all the evidence in the case.” Clear and convincing evidence is supposed to fall between these two, though as a practical matter it’s rarely clear how jurors actually apply the standard.

    The law Parsons just signed is an abomination. The only positive thing that can be said for it is that some of the versions that were being considered were even worse. My state has gone crazy.

  5. OzarkHillbilly says:

    @Roger: Clear and convincing evidence is supposed to fall between these two, though as a practical matter it’s rarely clear how jurors actually apply the standard.

    Thanx for the explanation.

  6. Kathy says:
  7. Joe says:

    The article says that the suspension came from the U.S. Appeals Court. That’s not quite accurate. The U.S. Appeals Court is the federal court in D.C. and would not have jurisdiction to bar Rudy from practicing in the District, but only from practicing in federal court. Later, the article correctly identifies the suspending court as District of Columbia Court of Appeals, which is the “state” court of appeals and the correct court to control practice in the District. A win nonetheless.

  8. Kylopod says:


    Two down, 49 to go.

    Then he can go to Guam…..

  9. de stijl says:

    I ate something extremely yummy last night. Unexpectedly so.

    I made chili for the 4th for chili-dogs (always go for Hebrew National unless you have a local butcher shop that does better).

    I had eaten the last dog the day before and I was semi bummed, but I had an unopened pack of fresh local brats and some buns and leftover chili. Lightbulb pops in my head.


    Grilled two up. Warmed some chili. Bunned those babies up, a bit of brown mustard, chili on top, some shredded cheddar, BBQ chips and bacon onion dip. A side salad.

    Chili-brats were better than I imagined. This will be a new go-to for me. You would be a fool to not try it.

  10. HarvardLaw92 says:


    Generally speaking, most of the stuff that Guiliani has engaged in of late has been pro hac vice appearances predicated on his (former) status as an admitted member in good standing of the bar in NY state. That isn’t the same as actually being admitted to the bar in another state. As far as I’m aware, Guiliani’s only actual state level bar admissions were NY and DC.

    Worth noting, though, that state courts rarely, rarely suspend an attorney’s license to practice during the pendency of disciplinary proceedings. For the NY appellate court to have gone that far, to have taken that step, indicates the egregiousness of what he’s done. He’s in serious trouble.

    Short version of that is: he’s finished as an attorney. He’ll likely never practice again, anywhere.

  11. de stijl says:


    Gotta admit. I was pulling for Denmark. Sorry! No dis intended.

    The revenge of Harald Hadrada.

    I found a 90s US video with a frenetic guitarist guy sporting shorts in a video (but not jorts). I thought of you. Wrong by Archers Of Loaf. Righteous song, btw.

  12. CSK says:

    I can’t find any indication that Giuliani was admitted to practice anywhere other than NY and D.C.

  13. de stijl says:

    This might sound high-falutin’, but this is my absolute rule. Never make chili with ground beef ever. (Or tacos either. Shudders reflexively.)

    A mix of ground pork and a cheap roast cut of beef with some interstitial fat. Chuck is fine. Cut that into quarter inch sized chunks. Brown both and continue on. Chili needs a bit of bite.

    Ground beef is for burgers and sloppy joes. Or a loose meat sandwich which is an Iowa speciality.

  14. CSK says:

    In addition to the 50 she’s already sending to the southern border, Kristi Noem will be adding another 125 National Guard troops later this year.

    Nothing quite like performance art governing.

  15. HarvardLaw92 says:


    That was my take as well. There’s the usual derivative federal admissions, of course, but I left those out for obvious reasons. They’ll all go down along with NY & DC.

  16. Kathy says:


    After today, you won’t find any indication even there.


    This being the post-trump age and all, I wonder if she will claim she solved the immigration crisis when reelection time comes.

  17. CSK says:

    She may have her sights set on something bigger than the governorship of South Dakota. Apparently there’s a “Draft Kristi Noem for President” Facebook page.

  18. Kathy says:

    @de stijl:

    Well, loose ground beef is hard to cook less than well done, especially if you want to brown it. I let mine cook in the pan or pot with onions and garlic, and sometimes other vegetables, and then add a cup of beef broth, preferably hot, and let it be consumed as it simmers with a lid on.

  19. JohnSF says:

    @de stijl:
    No worries. I’m not that much of a nationalist; not even that fervid a football fan.
    (More into rugby and cricket)

    OTOH Hardrada was Norweigan, not Danish IIRC? Though I suppose there were likely some Danes in the Norse host, there were probably more in the English army.

    I suppose Hardrada does deserve some sympathy, having been on the receiving end of one of the best ever badass medieval put-downs, from Godwinson:
    “He wants land? I will give him just six feet of English soil; or, since they say he is a tall man, I will give him seven feet.”
    (Also, on the receiving end of an English battle-axe.)

    At least England aren’t playing Normandy in the finals this time!

  20. JohnSF says:

    @de stijl:
    The chilli recipe I use goes for half-and-half minced beef (what you folks call ground) and half finely diced chuck steak or braising steak.
    After using diced, all minced is definitely sub-par IMHO.

    On the other hand, I gather chilli devotees regard using tomatoes as outrageous, and even beans as stretching things, and I use both; tried without, not keen.

  21. de stijl says:


    Tomatoes always. Beans never. My chili is somewhat tomato forward. Crushed and smushed. And super fine diced onion that melts if you brown it off first and then let the whole batch low simmer for hours. Secret ingredient is Mexican chocolate or cocoa powder.

    Beans have their place. I love beans. Within reason. Squishy little bastards.

    But in chili, no. Beans are often used as a stretcher and as a protein supplement.

    I have the wherewithal to go full meat. Full chili con carne. Hard core.

  22. de stijl says:


    In those days the distinction between Norway and Sweden and Denmark was incidental. Denmark was frontline extension.

    Hadrada was the northern King amongst many competitors with an unharried west facing coast and many boats.

  23. de stijl says:


    Noem is playing partisan politics with the National Guard. There ought to be state-level legislative or constitutional guardrails around that. That could go seriously wrong easily.

  24. de stijl says:


    I always pull for the oddest countries come World Cup time. Iceland. Or Ireland when my local was ex-pat Irish owned.

    I got up at 5am local to watch a match at Kieran’s. Why? No idea. It seemed like a good idea at the time. They served up a nice breakfast spread and taps were open at 6 am which I am not entirely sure was exactly kosher per local laws but no one there was gonna narc them out. No harm no foul.

    I took advantage of open taps and open bottles that morning. Got my booze on. It was stupid fun. Highly recommended.

    I was fooling myself. Tiny countries cannot compete. They can try hard, but talent determines most matches. But I appreciate the effort. Getting out of pool 1 is impressive.

  25. Joe says:

    @CSK and HL92: I am curious how you determined Guiliani’s DC admission. Based on the apparently summary nature of the DC Ct. Ap. decision – NY did it and therefore so do we – I wondered whether they might simply be revoking a PHV status. Why would Guiliani be admitted in DC (other than that you can waive in)?

  26. Sleeping Dog says:

    The other day Eddie From CA and wr(?) were talking about masters programs in film and related fields. Some context

  27. Jen says:

    Why would Giuliani be admitted in DC (other than that you can waive in)?

    You mean admitted to the DC Bar? Most lawyers who also lobby get admitted to the DC Bar for image purposes. Giuliani has been listed as inactive, but all he needed to do to be considered active is submit a letter and pay dues. It’s a good back-pocket option to have, given how many people in need of counsel there are swimming around DC.

  28. JohnSF says:

    @de stijl:
    Like that Archers of Loaf song.
    Heard of them before, but never actually listened to them.

    Mind you if I was connecting rock+shorts, I’d probably first think of AC/DC. LOL.

    But speaking of early 90’s music that is unjustly overlooked, how about The Belltower?
    Outshine the Sun!

  29. HarvardLaw92 says:


    Jen beat me to it (thanks!)

    DC is a reciprocity jurisdiction with NYS, so the effort required for him to have been admitted would have been minimal. Basically: “Why not get admitted if I’m going to be a lobbyist?”

    I haven’t read the DC proceedings, but I’m almost certain that he would have been admitted in DC based on reciprocity (nobody is going to take the exam twice unless they have to), therefore NY moving to suspend him should by necessity result in DC doing the same. I haven’t read the DC local rules, but there will almost certainly be a collateral good standing requirement in them somewhere.

  30. EddieInCA says:


    Had Southgate played Rashford instead of Sterling, it would have been 4-1, easily. Can’t believe the chances Sterling just screwed up. Four at least. 1 v 1 against the keeper, you can’t shoot it into his chest. Grealish was great, as was Maguire.

    Schmeicel made his daddy proud in the losing effort. 3-1 England in 90 mins without his brilliant saves.

  31. Joe says:

    @HarvardLaw92: As a member of the DC bar, I am aware of the DC waive-in process. It’s a little different than reciprocity, but does rely on your admission and attaining certain bar scores on your source state’s exam (at least this was the case in the ’80s – Illinois made a big deal of not telling you your bar score if you passed, but then copied me on the transmittal letter to DC). Much simpler than having to sit for the NY bar . . . in Albany in February. It would nevertheless not surprise me if being bounced from your source state would necessarily bounce you from DC.

  32. HarvardLaw92 says:


    Yikes, didn’t mean to presume to hold forth about your home turf, so to speak. Mea culpa.

    I haven’t read DC’s local rules (no reason to, tbh). NY is concrete about it – get bounced in your reciprocity basis state and you get bounced in NY. It’s set in stone. I’d be surprised if DC was any different.

    I’m admitted in NY, DE, and Paris. DE doesn’t have reciprocity with anybody. Paris (France really) has what’s called an Article 100 admission. Long story short, a mini written (not multiple choice) French bar exam, an oral board on a procedure topic randomly selected from a list of potentials, and an oral interview on the French legal system (along with a truckload of supporting documents). For reasons passing understanding, I’ve put myself into situations where I’ve basically had to pass it three times. There will not be a fourth. I’ll retire first.

    And there is never a good time to be in Albany, but February is pretty bad, agreed. 😀

  33. CSK says:

    @de stijl:
    Well, here’s a little additional info I hadn’t seen when this was breaking news: Noem approved a federal request to send those additional 125 troops to the border.

  34. wr says:

    @Sleeping Dog: “The other day Eddie From CA and wr(?) were talking about masters programs in film and related fields. Some context”

    Oh, yeah, an MFA is expensive even at a reasonable school And the top schools it’s outrageous. It’s a subject I’ve had long discussions about with other members of various admissions committees — do we think this person has a reasonable shot at a career after graduation or are we just taking their money? And is that really our call to make?

    I think most students going into an MFA are aware of the odds. I like to tell them that the best thing about our degree is that it is worthless — we don’t hand out tickets you use to get into a profession like medicine and law. Which means that the only value we offer is the education we provide….

  35. HarvardLaw92 says:



  36. Kathy says:

    I finished An Elegant Defense, a book about the immune system (and four people). It was ok, and I learned many things I didn’t know, but it left me with many old questions unanswered. So, my research on the matter continues.

    Meantime, I’m listening to a short Great Courses lecture series by Dr. Kara Cooney, entitled Powerful Women Who Ruled in the Ancient World.

    There’s some ground she’s already covered in prior books on female Egyptian rulers, but much new ground covered as well, like the economical, political, social situation of women in Greece and Rome.

    After that, which might mean later today, I don’t know. I need to look at the massive backlog I’m carrying on Audible.

  37. Just nutha ignint cracker says:

    @de stijl: While it’s on my mind, I went to the video you and John SF were talking about with the guy in the Jorts. I don’t think they were.
    1) They looked to be broadcloth.
    2) They looked to have a hemmed bottom. Not even I hemmed my jorts back in the day when you turned jeans in to shorts when they’d worn out. You just scissored the legs off where the knee hole was too large to patch. I think they’d fallen out of favor when I was about 14.

    “Daisy Dukes,” on the other hand, have never gone out of style. I’ve seen a guy or two who wore jeans cut that short. Too edgy for this little bunny, tho.

  38. Just nutha ignint cracker says:

    @Sleeping Dog: I’d have to consult with Luddite to be sure, but I’m almost positive that this was already a problem when I graduated from college in 1975. The names of the degrees may have been different, but the general issue hasn’t changed except as the debt has grown by orders of magnitude relative to the still paltry incomes. But even in 1975, a graduate degree in most fields outside business, engineering, and nursing was a dice roll at best. Pre-med and pre-law were crap shoots even at the BA level unless you had a good network or were a genuine find.

  39. CSK says:

    Yes. What does this mean?

  40. HarvardLaw92 says:


    Legit, no idea. It would have had to have come from Homeland Security, but there is a lot of detail missing – namely whether this is state active duty or Title 32 activity. The latter can only be approved by the President or SECDEF, but if it’s the former SD is paying for it, not the feds (at least not directly) so it’s an interesting bag of cats.

  41. Kathy says:

    Whatever happened to the GOP Arizona (ie Maricopa County) audit?

  42. de stijl says:


    Hear you on AC/DC. Great connection of the idiot thing we made up as a category.

    You want guidance on Archers Of Loaf? I got you no prob.

    Web In Front is vital. I am not a fan of the video they made. Silly and not conducive to their vibe. I am a massive fan of the audio however. Ignore the easy choice.

    Stuck a pin my backbone

    Imo, that song rocks with juicy lyrics too.

    Harnessed In Slums is also vital. Again ignore the stupid video. One of my favorite bands utterly sucked at video. Go audio.

    Next comment is on the brilliance of Superchunk.

  43. Michael Cain says:

    Let’s see…

    The ballots have supposedly all been counted, but no results have been released.

    The ballots had to be moved — again — late last week because the arena where the audit has been going on had been previously rented for this week.

    Maricopa County agreed with the Secretary of State and the manufacturer that the voting machines could not be brought back into compliance with federal law, and will spend a few million dollars to replace them.

    The state senate Republicans are being sued by two different groups under the state’s open records law; the senate Republicans defense is that the laws don’t apply to the audit. In a hearing this week, the judge seemed to say to the senate’s attorney that he was going to have to do a much better job explaining why details of what was being done and who was paying for it was not a matter of compelling public interest.

  44. de stijl says:

    @Just nutha ignint cracker:

    Yo, man! I knew that. I was poking fun.

    Factuality. I did enjoy the hemmed broadcloth explanation. I prefer the concept of inappropriate jorts. They looked like jorts if you squint.

    They were shorts. Egregiously employed. I am not an idiot. (Actually I am kinda.)

  45. Michael Cain says:

    @Michael Cain:
    I should have added, the legislature adjourned sine die on June 30. Unless AZ’s constitution is quite odd, I would expect that to mean the subpoena authority under which the ballots and machines are being held also expired and Maricopa County would be able to demand their immediate return.

  46. OzarkHillbilly says:

    Doing the work so our resident lawyers don’t have to.

    Akiva Cohen

    Jul 7
    OK, OK. Let’s read that new Trump lawsuit*

    *Yes, I know, he filed three of the same. One against FB, one against Twitter, and a third I haven’t bothered to check. Unless someone tells me otherwise, I’m gonna assume they’re carbon copies and just do the one.


  47. CSK says:

    I think Lawsuit #3 is against Google.

  48. Mister Bluster says:

    @wr:..the only value we offer is the education we provide…

    When I was in High School, Class of 1966, the father of a friend of mine was the top dog at the Chicago office of what was then called Minneapolis-Honeywell. He told me if I wanted to work for his outfit that it didn’t matter what my college major was. If I was hired the company would train me in their ways. They did want new hires who were college graduates as they wanted to see if the job applicant had the discipline to complete the work to earn a degree.

    On the other hand some campus sage told me one time:
    “Get a degree in Philosophy. You will be unemployed but you will understand why.”

  49. Kathy says:

    @Michael Cain:

    The sad part is if they claim to have found fraud, and present no evidence for it despite the months-long audit, they’ll be believed by millions of people, who will then demand similar audits in Georgia, Michigan, Wisconsin, and Pennsylvania.

  50. de stijl says:

    A bad-ass 90s jam no one would think me capable of getting.

    Hands Clean by Alanis M. Not my default speed, but pretty bad-ass in my head. A kick-ass pop song. I like pop. Within reason.

    Y’all have not likely heard this in 25 years and it is due a re-listen. A clean clear pop song.

    I respect the intent of it.

  51. Sleeping Dog says:

    @Mister Bluster:

    … it didn’t matter what my college major was.

    I was told that is well with the added proviso that business majors would likely make an extra grand a year to start. The assumption being that they could be plugged into some accounting role. But at the risk of being pigeon holed there while ‘arts’ major may get tracked into marketing, sales or one of the other higher compensated silos. The accounting needed to get his MBA and get over to finance as quickly as possible

  52. Stormy Dragon says:

    @Sleeping Dog:

    I’ve been in workforce long enough that I have an MS in Comp Sci that my employer paid for and then gave me a promotion/raise for completing.

  53. de stijl says:

    I was in the down left hand sunken bar area of 1st Avenue biding my time with buddies until show time. I cannot remember for who. I only remember Superchunk from that night.

    I heard compelling noise from off the main stage. Who the fuck is that? I poked my head out. I stepped forward into a great resounding din of Superchunk full throated and in full fuck you mode.

    I spent the next half hour absolutely flabbergasted. They were nobody anyone knew about or heard about and my chest was bursting with emotion and something akin to pride. I was so taken by their songs and their energy.

    Superchunk fucking god-damn rocks so fucking hard live.

    The next day I went to my go-to record store and demanded Superchunk now. Actually, I just searched the S racks, I’m not actually abrupt and rude.

    Oh my deity when I got home and listened to it! Mind blown.

  54. gVOR08 says:

    @Mister Bluster: I used to say that a degree is mostly a demonstration of being able to do a lot of pointless paperwork, follow arbitrary rules, and not being too openly disrespectful of authority. Which is to say perfect prep for the corporate world.

  55. OzarkHillbilly says:

    .@CSK: I couldn’t remember but saw this:

    Daniel Uhlfelder

    Last week a Florida federal judge blocked DeSantis’ new social media law targeting Twitter, Facebook and YouTube for de-platforming Trump. Today, Trump filed a class action against Twitter, Facebook and YouTube in a Florida federal court for de-platforming him. Hmmmm

  56. Stormy Dragon says:


    My question: in a class action suit, the lawyer is claiming to represent the interests of the entire class. Does filing a frivolous performative lawsuit as a class action thus create any liability issues for the lawyer by members of the class not into the performance on the basis of misdirection and incompetence?

  57. Just nutha ignint cracker says:

    @Kathy: You need to complain to someone. I’m almost positive that you were one of the people DoorDash was delivering that Nothing Burger Happy Meal to.

  58. OzarkHillbilly says:

    @Stormy Dragon: IANAL. Dodged that bullet. 😉

  59. Just nutha ignint cracker says:

    @Michael Cain: “…machines are being held also expired and Maricopa County would be able to demand their immediate return.”

    Okay. But why would Maricopa County want a bunch of broken voting machines back? Do they have scrap value?

  60. de stijl says:

    @Just nutha ignint cracker:

    RW fetishists will claim those machines as vectors in future elections. I guaran god damn tee it.

  61. de stijl says:

    @de stijl:

    Alanis Morisette’s secret lover was reportedly Dave Coulier.

    Is it true? God, I hope not. She deserved better than a hack comic actor.

    Cut it out.

  62. Kathy says:

    @Just nutha ignint cracker:

    Not me. But I am still waiting for my order of indicted trump with a side of Barr and Jared sauce.

  63. Kylopod says:

    @de stijl: Was he the one she reportedly dated when he was 30 and she was 16, and who’s believed to be the guy she was cursing out in “You Oughta Know”?

  64. Teve says:


    If we teach that the founding of the United States of America was somehow flawed. It was corrupt. It was racist. That’s really dangerous. It strikes at the very foundations of our country.

    Playing to the rubes. But it’ll work on the Trumpers. White hostility toward racial minorities is their whole jam.

  65. Michael Cain says:


    I admit to becoming more parochial as I get old. I’ll spend money and energy to win Arizona, whose election methods, ballot initiatives and demographic trends match where I live. The other states you list? They can save themselves or not.

  66. Flat Earth Luddite says:

    @Just nutha ignint cracker:
    IIRC, Cracker was looking at 75% cut in pay to use his degree (I’ll admit it was a teamster job, but still).

    Circa early 80s on I worked as Della Street to HL92 types because the $ was so sooo much better than what I could get with my degrees. In chem fields, folks with MA\MS got minimum wage scout jobs.. Unless you went into recreational pharma. Now THOSE folks pay well (but retirement plan sucks)

  67. Just nutha ignint cracker says:

    @Flat Earth Luddite: In terms of base salary, the cut was only about 45-50%. In real money terms (typically working a 48-52-hour work week), the cut was probably about 2/3rds, but it might have gone higher if the labor in the industry hadn’t been as relentlessly stupid as they were. By the time I’d been gone 6 or 7 years, they’d lost a couple of strikes and now a warehouse worker makes only a little more than I did 35 years ago (maybe, if he can stay for 5 years). Gotta love progress!

  68. de stijl says:


    That is my understanding. It might be myth. Neither has confirmed, although contemporaneous sources say yes. They did date when she was very young and he was 30 or thereabouts.

    Morisette was very young and in the Canadian version of the Disney Channel youth entertainment factory place.

    If so, yuck.

    For newbs, Coulier was one of the “uncles” on Full House. The annoying one. It was a TV show way back when.

    I did like that Morissette leaned into rage and anger and retribution. It was not in my wheelhouse, but I appreciated her vibe.

    I do love the Clean Hands song wholeheartedly. I cannot tell you why. It struck a weird nerve in me.

    Michelle Branch or P.J. Harvey as forbears.

  69. Teve says:
  70. Joe says:

    @Stormy Dragon: A class action lawyer who brings a frivolous claim in the wrong venue is setting themselves up for a finding that they are incapable of properly representing the class. Back one step: alleging a class does not get you a class. The judge as to make a handful of findings, including that there is class, too numerous for separate actions, but with common interests, and a lawyer (law firm) that can adequately represent those interests. Stupid pleadings in clearly wrong venues militates against that last finding.

  71. de stijl says:


    I knew that after watching two seasons of Better Call Saul.

    I know it is a professional business with credentials and a huge-ass educational burden, but no institution is as adequately and often correctly addressed by TV and movies.

    A lot gloss over the fine points, but as a profession media “gets” law better than any other profession. They insert finer obscure bits as plot points.

    You see a lot of cop stuff but is bent towards drama usually and not remotely real.

    The best cop show I’ve seen recently was The Rookie because it plays with the premise. Nathan Fillion as the world’s oldest rookie figuring things out. Should I approach this hard or soft? Why? My mentor prefers the optimal solution. How do I do that?

    There was a scene where three people were obviously arrestable per the rules and his call was Nope. Go forth and be less shitty from here on out. If I see you again I will be harsher and bring the full force of the system to bear on you. A non binary take. Much appreciated.

    And Fillion is a great audience stand-in. Not an opaque filler but a menschy dude.

    Some of the Wolf series play with this too. SVU especially.

  72. de stijl says:

    @Mister Bluster:

    I interned at Honeywell. Three months.

    I was a philosophy major my first two years.

    Painfully true.

  73. de stijl says:

    @de stijl:

    I came to campus directly from a squat. I owned three shirts and two pairs of pants. Y’all are lame and silly and foolish and naive and childish was my first take. I got better. They did too. I made friends. Met some good folks.

    I had experiences they did not, they had experiences I lacked. It was an awkwardly workable fit.

  74. de stijl says:

    Honeywell had a big footprint in Minneapolis. It was their genesis home town.

    Until they fucked off to Charlotte.

    If you believe Honeywell makes their money off thermostats you are blessed in the southern passive aggressive way.

    Major government contractor. Of what and for what is officially unstated. Honeywell is a captured company. Quasi-private, but fully captured.