Wednesday’s Forum
Steven L. Taylor
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Wednesday, April 19, 2023
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80 comments
About Steven L. Taylor
Steven L. Taylor is a Professor of Political Science and a College of Arts and Sciences Dean. His main areas of expertise include parties, elections, and the institutional design of democracies. His most recent book is the co-authored
A Different Democracy: American Government in a 31-Country Perspective. He earned his Ph.D. from the University of Texas and his BA from the University of California, Irvine. He has been blogging since 2003 (originally at the now defunct Poliblog).
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I posted this on yesterdays open thread, but it was late enough I thought it worth repeating this morning:
I just looked it up and a private equity firm purchased (rounding) 76% of Dominion for $38M in 2018, putting the actual valuation of the company at just about $50M. At that rate Fox paid at nearly a 16 multiplier. Even if we assume good growth in the intervening years it’s still north of 10x. Dominion can close its doors tomorrow and its investors have done extraordinarily well.
Astoundingly well.
I guess he really wanted to meet Unca Joe.
As a PR person, I have to wonder what they are teaching at CEO school. This is a dumb, basic mistake that created a crisis:
‘Leave pity city,’ MillerKnoll CEO tells staff who asked whether they’d lose bonuses
I mean, an alternative title to this is “Woman who receives bonus of $4 million tells employees not to think about how much take-home pay they are losing.”
HOW ARE CEOS THIS CLUELESS???
Ready! Aim! Fire!!!
There will be blood. Also too:
It won’t surprise me in the least if DeBrow has a side deal with trump.
@Jen:
In my experience, their thinking goes something like this “I was supposed to get a $10 M bonus and I only got $4M. I’ve lost $6M and I’m still showing up, putting in the effort, while these guys are only losing a few measly thousand and they think that entitles them to a round trip ticket to pity city! The gall!”
@OzarkHillbilly:
What’s the logic, when you are being investigated/charged with conspiracy, to have the same attorney as your alleged conspirators? It seems to me, that the DA is doing the defendants a favor by trying to get the current defense attorney removed.
“It simply is providing our business communities an opportunity to exploit our youth for profit, while at the same time stunting our children’s educational opportunities.” FTFH.
Funny how the GOP is so against letting the “free” market set wages. I keep waiting for them to bring back indentured servitude.
@OzarkHillbilly:
The former guy would have been hiding in the bunker until this threat was neutralized.
@Sleeping Dog: The DA is definitely doing the right thing by them. I hope they all appreciate it. The fact that she was the attorney of record for so many is what makes me wonder who is paying her fees.
@OzarkHillbilly:
It appears Fanni Willis is coming hard at Trump and those around him.
@OzarkHillbilly:
Oh, bullshit. Nobody is forcing the kids to work, they’re allowing them to work more if they want to. These aren’t 8-year-olds slogging in a coal mine, they’re 16 & 17 year olds bussing tables and running the register at the grocery store.
I got my first job at 15. I’d work 8-10 hours every Friday and Saturday washing dishes and bussing tables. Though it was illegal, I would serve wine in the dining room and cocktails in the bar downstairs. Absolutely nobody was “exploiting” me. I did a simple job and got a paycheck–just like everyone else.
The notion that allowing kids to work–to save up for college or buy some nice clothes or take their date out to a nice dinner–is “exploiting” them is just plain silly. Especially when the schools had zero problem with me working on the fall musical or spring play for 5-6 hours every night for a couple months each–for free.
Working part time teaches practical life skills, builds confidence, improves social skill, teaches financial responsibility, and has been shown to corelate to higher earnings later in life.
Ralph Yarl, 16, gets shot by Andrew Lester when he goes to the wrong house.
Kaylin Gillis, 20, gets shot and killed by Kevin Monahan when she turns into the wrong driveway.
Four Texas cheerleaders get shot by Pedro Tello Rodriguez when they mistake his car for their own.
Swell.
@CSK:
To make the TX shooting worse, one of the cheerleaders opened the car door, seeing a man in the car, returned to her friend’s car. The shooter then got out of the car, walked over to the teen’s car and shot them. He’ll plead stand my ground and when convicted, Abbot will pardon him.
@Sleeping Dog:
Maybe not. This was a Hispanic guy shooting at four white (I think) teenaged girls.
The next date for the Starship test flight is tomorrow at 10:28 EDT.
It’s a peculiar test, not getting to orbit at all, yet not a simple parabolic suborbital launch. The upper stage will splash down close to Hawaii, after not making one orbit.
Usually a new rocket is launched into orbit. Performance tests like this are rare.
. @Mu Yixiao: To repeat:
Put that in your pipe and smoke it. And don’t even begin to tell me about how you were working at the age of 15 like you were the only one, Alright? Lots of folks did, I certainly did. If you don’t think some businesses will find a way to exploit 15 and 16 yos into working more hours than are healthy for them, you are a fool. If you don’t think some businesses will engage in wage theft with younger workers, you are a fool. Do you think children have any business working on a meat processing line? because that is what the Iowa state lege wants when they say, “allow minors to work in previously prohibited industries if they are part of a training program,”
Oooooo, a “training program”. My ass.
We already have all kinds of child labor violations by various industries. To think that loosening the laws won’t make things even worse is ludicrous.
@OzarkHillbilly:
Now I happen to think teenage working is an overall good with benefits far outweighing the downsides; however, why is there a labor shortage? It is tied to the immigration question. All though rural American, immigrants, legal and illegal, have been filling these jobs. They are not taking jobs from Americans but filling the holes.
Today is National Earthquake Drill Day. At 11 am, the seismic alert will go off and we’ll do the run down the stairs drill.
At work they tried to manage it once. They trained some people in emergency response, then told them how to manage the drill. It took far longer to get everyone down than in previous unmanaged occasions. Now the trained personnel is only supposed to gather their section of people outside the building for a head count after the evacuation.
Me, I plan to cheat.
I was chatting about it with a colleague who works at another location. She’s in a 15th floor in a 20 story building (I’m in the second of a four story one), and I wondered how she made it down the stairs in one minute.
She doesn’t. People above the 6th or 7th floor are supposed to gather in “secure areas”. Otherwise more likely than not, they’d be running down the stairs when the quake hits. This guarantees a few people will stumble and fall, and take many others with them.
But she said for the drill she could set a reminder and take the lift down ten minutes prior. I thought that was a great idea. I’,, do that five minutes before 11, though I’ll use the stairs.
@OzarkHillbilly: Nothing against the DA, but is she doing the defendants a favor or is she simply insuring this won’t be grounds for appeal?
RE: Uvalde
Your Well-Regulated Militia.
@OzarkHillbilly: Exactly. The real reason for doing this has nothing to do with “teaching children a work ethic”. It is to depress wages by pushing lower wage workers into the work force so employers don’t have to pay more to attract adult workers. Poor families will put their kids to work, up to six hours per day for children as young as 13 (if I understand correctly). Six hours of work, plus mandatory break times, plus transport time to and from work (from families unlikely to have cars) adds up to 8-9 hours a day away from school work and sleep. The reason the child labor laws were put in place in the first place was to insure kids got an education.
Oh. My. God. A second series:
http://www.collecttrumpcards.com
They’re NOT for investment purposes.
@daryl and his brother darryl:
He was also a law-abiding gun owner. Until he wasn’t.
@Mu Yixiao:
Um, no. It is changing the law to allow children to work in meat processing plants, so that employers can legally do what they were caught illegally doing.
These are hard jobs with overnight hours using heavy equipment. Kids should NOT be doing this work.
@OzarkHillbilly:
Some smart PR person should arrange a photo of with Biden, the parent(s), and the wee tyke. Biden would offer a blanket pardon to the youthful offender even though ignorance of the law (and a tiny frame) is not an excuse. An avuncular hair ruffle.
PR gold!
@Jen:
@OzarkHillbilly:
That is not what the bill says.
[emphasis added]
No overnight shifts. No work in meat packing plants.
Spring is definitely here even though it snowed like crazy all day Sunday – upper 80s two days before that. Robin’s show up here in mid-March and they are as plump as tiny pumpkins.
But this is the time of year we see the cool, colorful birds. This morning I saw a bunch of cardinals and two bluejays. They don’t stick around long – we’re mostly a stopover on their way to greener pastures.
Come summer 98% of the birds you see here are robins and three or four varieties of small drab brown birds. It’s nice to get this brief window of color and variety. I should take up birding. Why not?
Of course, it is also allergy season for me. Untreated, I sneeze several hundred times a day and blow my nose 15-20 times at least. Treated, it is impossible to stay awake for more than 5-6 hours in a row. That’s okay. I enjoy naps. I prefer drowsy over violent sneezing and clogged sinuses.
I never had any spring allergies until about 7 or 8 years ago. Now I have an intense reaction. No idea why that is.
@de stijl:
According to my doctor, you can develop allergies at any time and any age.
@daryl and his brother darryl: well…he had plenty of time to do such things while 300+ cops sat outside collecting overtime and shooting the shit with each other.
@CSK: truth. I gained an allergy to Cipro after being given it so often for various infections. Discovered that on the 2nd day on the job at a new dealership after getting a vicious UTI that day and having to leave early. Looked like I went 3 rounds in a hobo fight, my face swelled up so badly. Glad they were understanding; especially after having to be out for 5 days. Kind like my sudden allergy to lavender oil in my mid 30’s I discovered after doing a load of sheet laundry in some lavender scented detergent and softener sheets. Driving to CVS holding one eye open was fun. Glad it was just up the street and on mostly residential roads.
@Scott:
He was a full-blown nutjob that the State of Texas allowed to become a gun-owner.
@Thomm:
What a miserable experience you had. I just sneezed a lot.
@Mu Yixiao:
I agree. I went to work full-time at Toys R Us at age 16. What I learned doing that was infinitely more useful for me than another two years of high school would have been. Of course, obviously I don’t think many 16 year-olds should drop out in order to work, but working a job, especially some low-end service job, is highly educational and good for your development as a human being. Now, dangerous work, or work at abusive employers? No, of course not, but bussing tables? Sure.
@CSK:
Cashews. They’re related to mangos and to poison ivy. Ate cashews all my life, no problem, then around age 40 they start giving me a rash. Turns out it’s the poison ivy connection, a result of an early, severe exposure which, decades later, became a food sensitivity.
@CSK: mainly it was the face swelling and a bit of itchiness in my scalp both times. Luckily no breathing problems either time. Benadryl helped quite a lot, but really knocks me out more than most.
Between my spinal injury, amputation, and stuff like this; I have been through some stuff. Probably why my beard is pretty much grey since the age of 42.
@Michael Reynolds:
Omg this is so bizarre and fascinating and a little scary. Did not know this was a thing.
@Michael Reynolds:
There’s a story here. Do tell, sir.
Allen Weisselberg has been released from durance vile on Riker’s Island.
@Michael Reynolds: Michael, are you seriously putting your 16-30 year old self out there as a role model for children! 😉
@MarkedMan: Yes, but Mu’s account negates any counter arguments about net effect because one time for one person changing the situation mandated by law worked to that one person’s advantage. Conservatives and Libertarians have been making these single person exception arguments for as long as I can remember because the singular of datum is also anecdote.
@de stijl: Try switching to a “non-drowsy” antihistamine. Claritin (OTC: Loratidine) works for me really well.
@Michael Reynolds: You should be wary of peppercorn blends, then. Pink peppercorns are not actually from the same family as black pepper, and are related to cashews and pistachios.
@Mu Yixiao: Whelp, okay then. Republicans are simply sh!t at timing their legislative initiatives then, because boy howdy does it seem odd coming on the heels of getting caught. (Do you think those companies are really checking their processes now, to make sure they are in compliance?)
@OzarkHillbilly:
Allowing a 16 year old to serve alcohol is just batshit crazy. I had quite a bit of training at a world-famous restaurant from elite bartenders who really knew their business before I ever poured a drink for a customer. I was in my early 20s then, and it was still a steep learning curve to gain skill handling people who were drinking.
This is going to lead to people getting hurt, and people being killed.
An interesting piece about Lasik eye surgery.
I know a few people who’ve had it. None have had any long term problems that I know about. Two are coworkers I see every day. One is my older brother. I do know one person who had a bad outcome. Basically he saw even worse after surgery, and required a second operation. I think things wound up well after that.
Me, I have mild astigmatism and myopia (the latter only in the left eye). How mild? I lost my last pair of glasses 8 years ago and have not bothered to replace them (tedious list of reasons why now below*). So I’ve never contemplated surgery.
My bother got it early on. It might not even have been Lasik, as I think it was in 98 or so (they did use lasers). At that time, the practice was to do one eye, let it heal, see how it worked out, and then do the other eye. I gather this cautious approach is no longer the norm.
Now, “complications” is one of those terms that encompass much. In this case it may go from occasional dry eyes requiring drops, to the awful things depicted in the article. so the rate of complications would be hard to measure.
*One reason is that I keep losing my glasses (I wore none between 2006 and 2014). Another is that I get along well enough without them. The third reason is every ophthalmologist who’s prescribed glasses, has advised me not to wear them when reading, or working at a computer, and the intermittency of use helps me lose them.
@just nutha:
Except it wasn’t just me (never said it was) it was basically the entire student population when I was in school. Everyone had jobs. Planting and picking tobacco, detassling corn, working at the feed mill, bussing tables, flipping burgers, working at the canning factory, running the rides in the theme parks, etc., etc., etc.
JT Mortimer of the University of Minnesota found that “high school students
who work even as much as half-time are in fact better off in many ways than students who worked less”
Siedel, Ma, & Houshmand (U of BC, U of HI) studied teens working in small businesses and found positive benefits “such as higher income, better fitting jobs, and better career networks”
Elsewhere:
Multiple articles I’ve read through discuss links between moderate work (varying between 15 and 20 hours/week) and improved grades (none had academic links so I’m not quoting them here).
Virtually every study and article I’ve read does come with caveats. The primary one being working more than 20 hours/week during school (non-summers) shows a drop in benefits, and higher issues with stress.
So… no. It’s not just “my anecdote”.
@anjin-san:
If you’ll read what the bill actually says, the teens are not mixing drinks (they’re not even allowed to work in the bar), they’re being allowed to carry drinks to the customers in restaurants. The bartender is doing the mixing, and the adult staff are still there to watch the customers for drunkeness.
Based on the wording I read, it would also appear to allow teen cashiers at a grocery store to run the 6-pack or bottle across the scanner instead of having to call for a manager.
@Mu Yixiao:
That makes it a really, really bad idea instead of an insane one. I worked in that business for a long time. Letting people under 21 handle alcohol – in any capacity – will lead to some very bad outcomes, with no upside that I can see.
@just nutha:
It does no such thing, and I expect better than such strawman statements from you.
@anjin-san:
I disagree. In Wisconsin, anyone 18+ can serve if they either have a liquor license or are under the direct supervision of someone who has one. I worked in F&B for about 35 years, so I also have some experience in this. I’ve never seen, nor heard about from others in the industry, problems with just carrying a drink to a table. I don’t see how a 17-year-old setting a bottle of beer on the table is any different than a 21-year old.
What issues are you supposing would arise from this? (Remember, there would have to be someone with a liquor license supervising the teen). I’m asking this in all seriousness.
@OzarkHillbilly: When I was 16 I had to work so many hours at my job that I earned vacation time. They fired me for bullshit just days before they had to pay me that vacation time and told me if I applied again in a month they’d rehire me. I was getting home as late as 4am on school days. I had to work that job and they exploited me as a result.
Rural red states are full of poor families looking for ways to feed themselves.
@anjin-san: Could you imagine a 16 year old telling adults that they have had enough and are being cut off?
@Mu Yixiao: Oh sweet summer child how wonderful the world you must live in where everyone and everything behaves perfectly according to the letter of the law and internal rules…
Legit where do you go that the 16 year old has to call to scan alcohol? I’ve never seen that or heard of that being a thing.
@Jen: Interesting! I have a cashew allergy (actually allergies to most tree nuts) but none to pistachios or pink peppercorns. I also have mold and fungi allergies but no problems with eating mushrooms. I’ve had food and environmental allergies all my life and how they work still mystifies me.
@Kathy: My eye doctor is recommending that we postpone Lasix surgery for “as long as possible” (because of the physical shape of my eyeball) but things have definitely advanced because 25 years ago, I wasn’t even a candidate for such procedures because of my eye allergies. She also informs me that astigmatism can’t be corrected with laser surgery so I’ll still need glasses even after we do my cataract (maybe 2, I don’t know anymore).
@Kathy:
The other thing they don’t tell you is that your eyes will continue to degenerate.
You’re gonna need glasses again in…who knows…5, 6, 7 years?
Or another surgery.
@Matt:
Absolutely every grocery store that I’ve shopped at–including the one I worked at a few years ago. Manager (or authorized adult) has to type in their employee ID number to let the scanner function.
@Kathy: I don’t want laser eye surgery until it can give me laser eyes.
(Laser beams flying from the eyes are just one part of a well-regulated militia)
@Mu Yixiao: I don’t see how a 17-year-old setting a bottle of beer on the table is any different than a 21-year old.
Because they have better judgment. Maybe something as basic as a 21 year old isn’t going to be as tempted too take a drink at work since they are already of legal drinking age. For the same reason that 21 year olds are much safer drivers than 17 year olds (accident rate less than half adjusted for miles driven).
https://aaafoundation.org/rates-motor-vehicle-crashes-injuries-deaths-relation-driver-age-united-states-2014-2015/
You can argue until you are blue in the face that it isn’t an issue, but there is a reason why there are different rules for minors and adults.
@Mu Yixiao: Weird in the five states I’ve lived in I’ve never run into that and I used to go to Iowa for the state fair every year.
@Matt: I cut my post off early on accident and cannot edit it.
The only thing I’ve seen the kids have to put in was the birthdate of the buyer. Maybe my family/friends and I were just buying from the wrong stores or worked at the wrong stores..
@Jen:
Oooh, thanks!
@DK:
There is a story, but if I tell it again there are people here prepared to beat me with a stick.
@MarkedMan:
I have a standing offer of $10,000 to anyone who can show a single instance of me un-ironically referring to myself as a role model or a hero. I actively push back when I see it – and I do see it, which is…unsettling. Of course this just makes me seem humble. Humble yet lovable.
@Senyordave:
Enjoying amusing memories of all the over-21 restaurant folk I used to work with, all of us waaaaay too mature to drink at work. Unless you count however many shooters we could wheedle out of the bartender, any leftover wine in bottles, and whatever anyone happened to have in a flask. But it was medicinal: the booze brought us down from the weed we smoked to get through opening sidework. And the weed we smoked for closing sidework sort of sobered us. Sort of. Enough to walk over the bar next door and drink. Which set us up for the coke. . .
Best busperson I ever worked with was 17. A slovenly young woman, but smart as hell. It’s good to have a busperson who can verify the source of, ‘l’etat c’est moi,‘ and share a laugh at Husserl.
@Mu Yixiao:
Say goodbye to your little fingers.
The only good thing I can say about the 90’s is that I spent my youth making homemade explosives and I never got sent to Guantanamo. Or lost any fingers.
@Matt:
My thought exactly. When I was a minor, we did all sorts of things to get our hands on booze, with no thought of rules, consequences or danger. We just wanted to party, period.
To work with alcohol in any setting or capacity, you need at least decent, but preferably good judgment. You need experience. You need to be able to be strong and not take the path of least resistance when trouble, actual or potential, shows up. And it will show up. You need to be able to dominate situations that are at risk of going south. How many teenagers can do any of these things? Look at the catastrophic chain of consequences when a 19 year old convenience store clerk decided to accept what he thought was a counterfeit bill from George Floyd.
The restaurant industry is a magnet for people who like to party. And it’s not because every place that serves alcohol is well-managed and tight. I tell people stories about the shit that happened when I was in that business, and they often don’t believe me. But, it did all happen.
@Mu Yixiao:
I have to ask, where did you work at all those years – Disneyland?
@anjin-san:
And even if you generally have good judgment you’re still going to make mistakes or have lapses. I know a couple people who were or are bartenders and they are great functional people that still goofed. The chances of that happening go through the roof the younger you are.
Also, thinking about this whole child labor issue is making me realized just how abused I was as a kid. I went to work for my dad in truck repair after I had to quit my fast food job*. He did all sorts of terrible dangerous crap that would have gotten him arrested if I hadn’t been his kid.
*a co-worker threw boiling hot water on my arm while we were all screwing around. I’m lucky I didn’t lose an eye and you can barely see the scars.
@Michael Reynolds: And many 17 year old s are very good drivers, better than most 21 year old drivers. But when you look at the entire universe of 17 year olds they are substantially worse drivers than 21 year olds. My 16 year old nephew is far more responsible than his 25 year old sister, but I wouldn’t generalize that to all of society. You’ve mentioned before that you were in trouble with the law when you were you younger. Today, you are very successful. That does not mean prove a positive correlation between the two.
@OzarkHillbilly: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-irkxy9zhUY&t=4s
@Kathy:
Historically, most new rockets are launched by a “hardware poor” operator. SpaceX is the first (and so far, only) company that is by intent “hardware rich”. After a successful test launch, the second SLS/Orion will take almost two years to build. The Super Heavy (with improved engines) and the Starship for the next launch are almost done already.
NASA has certified that SpaceX is finishing a Raptor 2 engine per day. At a cost that is the envy of everyone else. NASA recently took bids for unused space in the VAB in Florida. Rumor is that SpaceX was the only bidder, and intends to use it for storage space.
Okay… last responses before I call it a night (and normally, I would have stopped responding 2 hours ago).
@Senyordave:
Honest question: Have you ever worked in F&B? The opportunity to take a sip from someone’s drink without being caught close to zero. And I don’t know how it is where you are, but around here, kids don’t have to steal a sip of someone’s drink at work; they go to parties to do that.
You’re equating carrying a beer to a table with operating a motor vehicle? Really?
The former is “carrying a thing”–exactly the same as carrying the burger, steak, pie, soda, or tea that they’re already doing. The latter is a complex skill which requires situational awareness, split-second decisions, kinesthetic awareness, and which improves with experience.
@Matt:
Wisconsin is rather lax with its liquor laws in some respects. For example: It is legal for a minor–of any age–to be served alcohol at a bar if the parent/guardian (or spouse) is the one who orders it*. It was perfectly fine for my dad to order me a brandy old fashioned when I was 12. But they’re strict on who can sell.
Every grocery store (and C-store) POS system is set up to require someone with a liquor license to scan alcohol. When the booze is scanned, the till locks up and requires a code to be input by an authorized staff member. These people need to have a state-issued liquor license. Without the code, the till won’t operate. So… the teen could scan the item, but can’t complete the sale.
I was sober while I lived in Texas, so it never came up, but I believe I remember something similar in Virginia.
@anjin-san:
Dramatic much?
How many teens are capable of taking a bottle of beer from the bar to a table in a restaurant without the world devolving into a Mad Max movie? Umm…. probably tens of millions.
I was bar tending at 18. It’s not uncommon around here. And it’s perfectly legal. I didn’t bother to get a liquor license because I was always working with someone who had one, but I could have.
Except for 10 states, the legal age for serving alcohol is 18.
AK (21), AK (19), ID (19), KY (20), NB (19), NV (21), OH (19), UT (21)
2 states place the limit lower than 18.
ME (17), WV (16).
Wisconsin.
Where did you work?
And… given the info above, can you show any evidence of the negative scenarios you postulate actually being present in any of the 42 states which allow persons younger than 21 to serve alcohol?
And then: Can you show significant and pervasive instances of this happening?
I will ask of you what everyone here asks of me: Show evidence and proof of your statements.
===
* Odd negative loophole in the law: A parent can legal order a drink for a child until they turn 18–at which point, the child is a legal adult and not under control of the parent. So, from 18 to 21, they can’t drink–unless they marry someone above the age of 21.
@just nutha:
@daryl and his brother darryl:
It’s difficult to set hard and fast rules, but overall I prefer less invasive remedies first. this is not always possible, of course. You can’t fix a hernia without surgery, for example (though surgery has become less invasive over time).
I think the risk for Lasik is small, but I don’t see the point to take even a small risk for something I see as unnecessary. At least as my vision problems go. Things like cataracts do require surgery.
@Gustopher:
The premiums for third-party property damage insurance would be too high.
@Mu Yixiao:
I started in the 70s at a place called The Trident in Sausalito. That’s where I got trained, though it closed (dispute with the landlord) before I was 21, so I never tended bar there. Note: The place that calls itself The Trident is now in the same building and looks pretty much the same, but it is not the same place.
I’m talking about the one that was owned by The Kingston Trio, where Janis Joplin had her own table, where Bill Evans, Chet Baker and Vince Guaraldi played, where The Rolling Stones had private parties, where the tequila sunrise was created, etc., it closed in the early 80s. Anyway, that’s one place I worked. Learned a lot there.
@Mu Yixiao:
Not at all. I once saw a (large, obviously tough) guy who had been cut off toss two cops – guys with guns – across the dining room like they were rag dolls. Then six more cops showed up and beat him to a pulp with billy clubs on the spot. And this was in a very nice restaurant, not some dive.
I also had a very good bouncer, an imposing guy who did professional weightlifting competitions and looked like he was carved from marble, explain how some guys who had been drinking would fight him in spite of his remarkable build unless they were handled correctly. That knowledge came in handy more than once.
@Michael Cain:
Maybe, but that’s not what the Emperor God of Mars and Phobos did with the Falcon 9, nor the Falcon 9 Heavy.
Assuming it’s Shotwell calling the shots rather than St. Elon God Emperor etc., then it may be the issue is the final design needs a performance test beyond what’s been done so far. No Super Heavy boosters have been launched, after all.
BTW, I do recall NASA did a performance test not too long ago. I think it was for the Constellation system, since cancelled, and it involved a repurposed Shuttle solid booster (just one) with a summy second stage.
Stand by.
Here it is, Ares I-X
@Mu Yixiao:
Negative I’ve never had a POS do that when I worked in grocery stores. Nor have I witnessed that occur at any store I’ve been to including those with 16 year old cashiers. Considering how many high schoolers work at walmart and other big stores I couldn’t see that being viable to have to hold up whole lines for a manager to be summoned..
@anjin-san:
That’s been my experience too. Drunk guys will pick fights with bigger tougher guys for no apparent reason.
@Mu Yixiao:
Not in the states I’m talking about. Liquor license is for the establishment not the employees.
@Matt: Wait I was wrong in Texas you’re supposed to have one but no one I knew had one. Mostly because the employer didn’t want to spend the time or money related to it. After all the business owners wouldn’t get in trouble for violations.
After mass school shootings people run out and buy guns. The result?
“Exposure to firearms increased substantially after the December 2012 shooting at Sandy Hook Elementary School in Newtown, Connecticut, where 20 children and 6 adults were killed. Gun sales spiked by 3 million, on the basis of the increase in the number of background checks for firearm purchases. Google searches for buying and cleaning guns increased. We used Vital Statistics mortality data to examine whether a spike in accidental firearm deaths occurred at the same time as the greater exposure to firearms. We also assessed whether the increase in these deaths was larger in those states where the spike in gun sales per capita was larger. We find that an additional 60 deaths overall, including 20 children, resulted from unintentional shootings in the immediate aftermath of Sandy Hook.”
https://www.science.org/doi/10.1126/science.aan8179
Steve
@Mu Yixiao:
Can you show us the specific language in the bill that says taking drinks to a table is the only way that the kids will handle alcohol?
This bill seems to tie in perfectly with the Republican vision for America. The 50% of America with the least wealth will get even poorer, never accumulating any meaningful net worth.
Their children will go to work at 13 and work till they die, while the 1%, and more importantly, the top 10% of the 1% become rich beyond the dreams of avarice.
Aristocrats and serfs…
They are doing it now you stu…. Not saying anymore. Get your head out of corporate ass.