Wednesday’s Forum

FILED UNDER: Open Forum
James Joyner
About James Joyner
James Joyner is Professor and Department Head of Security Studies at Marine Corps University's Command and Staff College. He's a former Army officer and Desert Storm veteran. Views expressed here are his own. Follow James on Twitter @DrJJoyner.

Comments

  1. OzarkHillbilly says:
  2. Tony W says:

    @OzarkHillbilly: Axe murderers are now suing him for slander

    5
  3. OzarkHillbilly says:

    @Tony W: Heh.

  4. JohnSF says:

    @OzarkHillbilly:

    Trump has ‘moral compass of an axe murderer,’ says Georgia Republican

    Next on the news:
    Axe murderer claims Trump stole his compass, pleads for its return!
    “It was gold plated, personally engraved, and had great sentimental value. He said he’d give it back when he was finished with it…”

    5
  5. OzarkHillbilly says:

    @JohnSF: That is worth a tee hee.

    1
  6. Paine says:

    No dedicated post about Mayor Francis Suarez dropping out of the prez race? It completely reshapes the race!

    2
  7. wr says:

    Just taking a step away from politics for a moment to give a rave for the new film Bottoms, one of the funniest things I’ve seen in ages. Two unpopular lesbian high school girls start an afterschool fight club in order to date cheerleaders — and it gets a lot crazier from there, with a third act taking it to almost Cronenberg levels of surrealism, although it never loses its emotional core. And for fans of The Bear, it co-stars Ayo Adebiri.

    The trailer does a pretty job of capturing what the movie is like: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vH5NAahf76s

    I liked it so much that when I got home I streamed the director (and co-writers)’s first film, Shiva Baby, which is available on Max. Much smaller, much less crazy, but wonderful from start to finish. And for fans of The Bear, it co-stars Molly Gordon…

    3
  8. Neil Hudelson says:

    @wr:
    It sounds like a comedy that actually has jokes, and a goal to make the audience laugh? Huh.

    I remember watching Sports Night back in the 90s and being kind of tickled at the concept of a comedy that regularly brings in some pretty heavy drama elements. But, man, enough is enough. When “The Bear” can be labeled a comedy, we’ve lost sight of what comedy is. Don’t get me wrong, it’s a great show, but 20 minutes of family and coworkers yelling at each other, with a couple of minutes of funnyish situations sprinkled in, does not make a comedy.

    ETA: Love “The Bear,” just hate the sheer number of ‘dramedies’ taking all the comedy oxygen.

    3
  9. Flat Earth Luddite says:

    @OzarkHillbilly:
    @Tony W:

    Funny, I didn’t know lieutenant governor paid enough in grift to let him retire from politics after one gig. Cuz you know he’s done with the GOP in his home state.

    @Flat Earth Luddite:

    @JohnSF:
    He stole my compass! I left it on the dresser next to my keys and…wait, my wallet’s gone too!

    2
  10. Michael Reynolds says:

    @wr: @Neil Hudelson:
    I thought I was the only ex-restaurant guy who could not watch The Bear, but since then I’ve seen other restaurant folk having a similar reaction. Sort of how guys who went ashore at Omaha Beach have a hard time watching Saving Private Ryan. Except for the fact that cooks and waiters have never gone on the save the world from the Nazis. But aside from that quibble, exactly the same.

    1
  11. Michael Reynolds says:

    If we’re doing movies and TV this morning, a belated plug for a movie that needs no help: Barbie. Great this and that and everything, but I am particularly enamored of Ms. Gerwig for firing a cruise missile right into the heart of Go woke, go broke. The most direct, openly, even blatantly feminist mainstream movie I’ve ever seen, no bullshit gender swaps, no Mary Sues, just right up in your face, but with a sense of humor and a maturely affectionate grasp of male/female relationships that I suspect mirrors Ms. Gerwig’s relationship with her co-writer husband.*

    I’ve been following the YouTube GWGB crowd for a while, and almost overnight their rants shifted from GWGB to focusing solely on Disney’s troubles. Go woke, make one point three bazillion dollars. Boom!

    *Disclosure: I’m always going to be inclined to appreciate a married couple who write together.

    7
  12. OzarkHillbilly says:

    @Flat Earth Luddite: Maybe he just has a conscience and feels like a real job might be more rewarding?

    1
  13. OzarkHillbilly says:
  14. Flat Earth Luddite says:

    @OzarkHillbilly:

    Bwa haha hahahaha hahahahahaha.

    Oh, wait, that wasn’t the punch line? Oops, my bad. But still very funny.

    1
  15. Kathy says:

    Forget section 3 of the fourteenth amendment. Actual urgent, crucial, momentous issues are being adjudicated in America’s courts: Are Burger King’s Whoppers are smaller than advertised?

    I think a reasonable person thinks the burger they will get will look nothing at all like the one in the picture on the menu or in the ads. I’m less clear on whether that constitutes false advertising or not.

    BTW, food advertisements are an interesting subject. In most western countries, rules, laws, or customs, mandate the product being advertised be the actual product. Everything else, though, can be faked.

    For instance, an ad for pancake mix must show actual pancakes made with the mix and prepared according to the directions. So when you see a perfectly round, browned, fluffy pancake on a TV or print ad, that’s what you can actually get. The butter pat on top, and the syrup running down the sides of a pancake stack, are fake. As I recall, wax is often used to depict butter. The golden, thick, clear syrup that positively shines is most often motor oil.

    Yummy.

  16. Jay L Gischer says:

    @wr: OMG I just watched that trailer and teared up from laughing so hard. I have to figure out where to see it.

    1
  17. Jay L Gischer says:

    @Michael Reynolds: I maintain a list of films that show an established couple having adventures together. It’s a very short list, so I keep it in my head:

    * The Thin Man (et al)
    * The Mummy Returns
    * Mr and Mrs Smith
    * Undercover Blues (the married undercover cops have a baby)

    There are a bunch more that depict a couple breaking up. But that’s not this.

    1
  18. wr says:

    @Neil Hudelson: The Bear is a comedy only in the weird TV sense that anything running 30 minutes is a comedy and anything running 60 minutes or longer is a drama.

    1
  19. wr says:

    @Michael Reynolds: “I thought I was the only ex-restaurant guy who could not watch The Bear,”

    You might want to check out the second season, which is still intense but has a couple of very moving episodes showing the power and beauty of the work being done in kitchens and not just the tension and horrors.

    Maybe it will still be too much PTSD for you, but for me if the big question every episode in the first season raised was “why the hell would anyone do this,” these ones make us see “oh, this is why.”

    1
  20. wr says:

    @Jay L Gischer: “I have to figure out where to see it.”

    It started with a very minimal release — maybe only NY and LA — but it’s first week was surprisingly big, so I suspect it will be rolling out wide over the next month.

    1
  21. Stormy Dragon says:

    @Jay L Gischer:

    I maintain a list of films that show an established couple having adventures together.

    The Addams Family

    4
  22. Scott says:

    Karma

    Judge orders default judgment, sanctions against Rudy Giuliani in election workers’ lawsuit

    A federal judge on Wednesday issued a default judgment against former Trump lawyer Rudy Giuliani and ordered him to pay sanctions of nearly $133,000 in a civil conspiracy lawsuit by two Georgia election workers he had claimed mishandled ballots in the 2020 presidential contest.

    Judge Beryl Howell sanctioned Giuliani for failing to comply with her orders endorsing the demands for documents and other evidence sought in the case by lawyers for the election workers, Rudy Freeman and Wandrea’ ArShaye Moss.

    Howell blasted Giuliani for “willful … misconduct,” in failing to turn over the requested information as part of the legal process known as discovery, and for giving “only lip service to compliance with his discovery obligations.”

    The judge also ordered attorneys for Giuliani and the two women to propose three possible dates for trial in U.S. District Court in Washington, D.C., on the question of how much money in compensatory and punitive damages he should be ordered to pay them as a result of the default judgment.

    4
  23. Beth says:

    @Michael Reynolds:

    The season two episode “Fishes” set off my PTSD like mad. It was like watching one of my families Christmas movies. I was shaking an inconsolable afterwards. It’s an amazing piece of art that I never want to see again.

    2
  24. Scott says:

    @Michael Reynolds: I didn’t see the Barbie movie but all the women in the extended family did. They loved it.

    OTOH, I did watch (with wife and daughter) the HGTV Barbie Dreamhouse Challenge. Mattel and others are also cleaning up on Barbie. Kind of gloriously looney.

    1
  25. Michael Reynolds says:

    @wr:

    “why the hell would anyone do this,”

    I loved the adrenalin rush. My section double, even triple-seated, the bartender hungover and vicious, the kitchen deep in the weeds and the host comes over and asks, ‘can you handle another?’ Hell yeah, I can handle it. Then going into the zone where you stop thinking and just floor the gas pedal. Then the end of the night bitch fest and tip count, smoking weed out by the dumpsters.

    I loved it, sick as that is. But it’s not something I want to return to. We’ll inevitably watch it, but I have to be in the right frame of mind. Much as how I felt with Breaking Bad which I finally watched after Better Call Saul. I don’t like experiencing human emotions.

    2
  26. Kathy says:

    @Jay L Gischer:

    Fun with Dick and Jane?

    I didn’t see it, so maybe not.

  27. Michael Reynolds says:

    @Jay L Gischer:
    I am, atypically for me, sentimental about marriage. I know who I used to be, and who I am now, and I know what made the difference. I might well cry at a wedding if I were ever so unguarded as to allow myself to be dragged to one.

  28. Michael Reynolds says:

    @Scott:
    You should see the movie. I frequently bitch about ham-fisted, self-sabotaging Hollywood efforts at DEI. (Marvel, Lucasfilm) But this was done right. Pretty pink propaganda that went down easy.

  29. Mister Bluster says:

    Karma schmarma…

    “I’ve lost my name, and I’ve lost my reputation,” Ms. Freeman testified to the House panel, adding as her voice rose with emotion, “Do you know how it feels to have the president of the United States target you?”

    If Karma was going to do anything worthwhile why didn’t Karma stop Trump and the goons he egged on to harass, intimidate and threaten Ruby Freeman and Shaye Moss before their lives were ruined?

    2
  30. CSK says:

    To bring up a nasty subject: Trump compared his case to that of the Scottsboro Boys as a means of delaying it till he becomes president and can pardon himself.

    Judge Chutkan was not impressed.

    1
  31. Sleeping Dog says:

    @CSK:

    So after he’s convicted the claim that like the Central Park 5 he’s innocent?

    2
  32. Kathy says:

    I wonder whether Michael Lewis is planning a book on Stockton Rush and the Titan submersible. I read a longish piece about the Titan, and I was reminded a great deal about Holmes and Theranos.

    Essentially both were trying to change how an industry operates, going about it the wrong way, and being told 1) this is not going to work, and 2) this is not how you go about doing things because of all these reasons gleaned from decades of experience in this area. And both ignored all critics.

    They differ in that Rush didn’t get as much investor capital, and far less media exposure before the inevitable accident of his submersible. And Liz didn’t get herself or any customers killed with her defective blood analysis machines. Rush was far less secretive as well, but more litigious.

    I’m amazed at the use of carbon fiber for a submersible. Just about everyone told him carbon fiber and composites using it were great at withstanding tension but not compression. This reminds me os steel reinforced concrete. Concrete resists compression best, steel rebar resists tension best. the combination works great in buildings and bridges, where the same structural components may face tension and compression, either at the same time or at different times depending on conditions.

    It’s not like carbon fiber can’t take some compression, just like concrete can take some tension. Just not enough for a submersible capable of diving down to 4000 meters.

    1
  33. Jen says:

    Sen. McConnell had another “spell” in front of reporters in Kentucky, apparently.

    1
  34. Kathy says:

    So, Benito is now on record he will end the rule of law in America.

    That’s not what he said, but it’s what he’s implying. He believes Biden, or “the Democrats,” are coming after him and his supporters for no legal reason, solely out of political expediency,

    Of course this is not true, and the it can be easily shown it’s not true. The allegations made in the various indictments refer to real crimes, and there is some evidence available about many of them. We know the Cheeto took papers not his property to his home, and there’s evidence he showed at least one to some people. We know he tried to overturn the election. We know Cohen was convicted in connection to illegal payments Benito was involved in.

    He might be shown to be not guilty once all the evidence is weighed rationally in court, though I think that’s a real long shot, like as long as the Universe is wide, but ti’s possible fi the facts warrant it.

    Now, I’m not opposed in charging anyone criminally who has committed a crime. So if Clinton had violated any laws with her email server, then she should have been charged accordingly. The thing is she was investigated by the FBI and no charges were filed.

    But, if Benito wants to go after Biden, clinton, Harris, etc. legally, he’ll either need his DOJ to manufacture evidence, or Congress to pass retroactive laws that make earlier legal actions illegal. Both effectively destroy the rule of law.

    2
  35. Gromitt Gunn says:

    Barbie has surpassed Harry Potter Deathly Hallows Part 2 as Warner’s highest grossing film!

    2
  36. CSK says:

    @Jay L Gischer:

    There’s Topper (movie and tv series), though George and Marion Kerby are ghosts.

    1
  37. OzarkHillbilly says:

    @Kathy: He believes Biden, or “the Democrats,” are coming after him and his supporters for no legal reason, solely out of political expediency,

    No, he does not believe that. It’s what he tells his cult followers and they believe it but he knows he’s lying.

    1
  38. Kathy says:

    @Gromitt Gunn:

    Adjusted for inflation?

    On another topic, the boss for some reason got a portable induction pad and some pans and a pot. I won’t start cooking at work, though I imagine situations where it would make sense*, but I could, and likely will, get a moka pot. the old electric espresso maker I got years ago has been erratic lately, even though we don’t use it much.

    *Sometimes when we stay very late, I’ve little to do and am waiting for corrections on long, long, long price lists and such. But the logistics for anticipating the need, and getting ingredients to make, for example, burgers or pan grilled chicken milanesas, would be nearly impossible.

    1
  39. CSK says:

    @OzarkHillbilly:

    Yup. His fanatical groupies, though, have gone from believing him to needing to believe in him at this point. In their desperation, they’d buy it if Trump said the moon was made of green cheese.

  40. OzarkHillbilly says:

    @CSK: He tells such pretty little lies.

  41. CSK says:

    @OzarkHillbilly:

    There I disagree with you. Trump not only tells such outrageous, egregious, obvious lies that it’s a wonder his nose isn’t a roosting place for pigeons. He lies about his lies. And then lies some more.

    1
  42. Gustopher says:

    @Jay L Gischer: True Lies? It’s been a long time since I’ve seen it, so there might be an unhappy-couple subplot.

  43. Gustopher says:

    @Michael Reynolds:

    I’ve been following the YouTube GWGB crowd for a while, and almost overnight their rants shifted from GWGB to focusing solely on Disney’s troubles. Go woke, make one point three bazillion dollars. Boom!

    Genuine question: do you think that you can hate watch right wing anger porn like the GWGB crowd and not have it seep in?

    It’s very clear that a lot of people can’t, but I’m willing to assume you have more media literacy than my brother. At the same time consuming a lot of toxic content can’t be good for you.

    3
  44. Gustopher says:

    I’m really enjoying Ahsoka right now. Three episodes in and I have various quibbles (not enough hands being cut off, etc), but it’s fun. Captures a lot of the feel of the original trilogy mixed with a bit of the prequel era or Clone Wars over the top action beats (Jedi being Jedi).

    Also, it’s effectively Lady Star Wars, which will annoy the he-man women-hater’s club of the Star Wars fandom.

    (I expect we will get a at least two more male characters as the series progresses — we’ve seen footage of one in trailers, and we’ve seen another pop up in a different series)

    3
  45. CSK says:

    According to Letitia James, NY’s A.G., Trump has inflated his worth by 2.2 billion dollars.

    1
  46. Michael J Reynolds says:

    @Gustopher:
    You mean am I being brainwashed by Nerdrotic et al? No more than I think U2 are great just because Rick Beato likes them. I’m not educated but I am very careful about what I accept as true. Probably because I’m not educated. Or the reverse, maybe I avoided the academy because I hate being fed bullshit.*

    I took to the ideas of presuppositionlessness and decathexis as starting points to understanding reality. Basically insofar as it’s possible, shed all presuppositions, clean slate, and separate emotionally from earlier, unchallenged beliefs. Decathect. I decided at some point, made it a policy, that lies are something to be used on other people, never on myself. (Later, when it was safe, I just stopped lying at all.)

    The prompt for this was facing my own rather serious fuck-ups. The first month or so after I went on the road so to speak, I was looking hard for a way to blame someone else. But I knew the guilty party. It’s probably why I lean so hard on individual responsibility: I did things, no one made me, and the consequences are entirely my fault. I hold everyone to that standard, which is one reason why I’m so much fun at parties.

    *I took Virginia history in Newport News in sixth grade, which would have been around 1966. You can guess what that was like.

  47. Gustopher says:

    @Michael J Reynolds:

    You mean am I being brainwashed by Nerdrotic et al?

    I’ll just note that you’ve made many of the same points as Nerdotic about DEI, ham-fisted inclusion, gender-swapping, Mary Sues, etc.

    I’ve was reading a book on Buddhism not long ago, and the notion of Right Consumption is there, with the notion that what you read/eat/etc changes you, and while I didn’t completely buy it, I’ve also seen how people slide down the alt-right pipeline and get radicalized by starting with seemingly innocuous shit. So, I don’t think it’s untrue, even if I don’t think it’s always true.

    Like most people, I think I’m better than average at media literacy, and remembering where I heard things, and essentially assigning estimated-bullshit values to things, but also like most people I occasionally find myself believing completely stupid things that somehow slipped through my guards.

    And that just brings to mind the time I discovered my cat had outsmarted me*, and the realization that I probably haven’t noticed all the other times she outsmarted me.

    ——
    *: the fat one will swat the thin one while the thin one is near the food bowls, and then hide. Thin one lets out a noise, I notice her by the empty bowls, I give her some more food… fat one comes and eats food that the thin one has no particular interest in.

    3
  48. Kathy says:

    @Gustopher:

    Ep. 2, no spoilers, plugs a hole from season 2 of The Mandalorian and the Rebels finale. I appreciated that for some reason.

    Spoiler alert.

    In the finale of Rebels, Sabine and Ahsoka head off together to look for Ezra Bridger. When Din Djarin meets Ahsoka, she’s alone and looking for Thrawn. So, plot hole.

    What we learn in ep. 2 is there was a considerable interval between when Ezra went missing and the time Sabine and Ahsoka can go look for him. Plot hole fixed.

    @Michael J Reynolds:

    *I took Virginia history in Newport News in sixth grade, which would have been around 1966. You can guess what that was like.

    I’m guessing more like what people like DeSatanis and the MAGA tribes want US history to be today.

    1
  49. Gustopher says:

    Random thought on gender swapping: I really wish that Doctor Who hadn’t had a new show runner do the female regeneration. The show was so different in so many ways that it was hard to see what was the result of the gender swap and what wasn’t.

    I think it would have been more interesting to see how the Doctor being a woman would have affected the existing show — what things work, what things don’t work, are typical Doctor behaviors perceived differently when a woman does them, etc. It might have really sucked, but it would have sucked very differently than what happened.

    (A man barging his way into a position of authority in an unfamiliar situation every episode is going to come across very differently from a woman doing the same thing. Confident becomes bitchy, etc)

    Part of the show is that the main character is radically reinvented every few years, so it should be a great laboratory for things like that with a large part of the fan base accepting change. (Not that there weren’t people complaining before Jodie Whitiker’s run that it was now Nurse Who, but fewer)

  50. Gustopher says:

    @Kathy: I never thought it was a plot hole. The character model for Ahsoka at the end of Rebels was so very different that it clearly showed that passage of time for me.

    Ahsoka was bigger. Not just wearing a cloak, and holding a nifty staff, but bigger. Larger head tendrils. Taller. Wider. Bigger. And more sure of herself. Older.

    Now I want to know what happened to the nifty staff. That’s the plot hole!

  51. Beth says:

    @Gustopher:

    I’ve was reading a book on Buddhism not long ago, and the notion of Right Consumption is there, with the notion that what you read/eat/etc changes you, and while I didn’t completely buy it, I’ve also seen how people slide down the alt-right pipeline and get radicalized by starting with seemingly innocuous shit. So, I don’t think it’s untrue, even if I don’t think it’s always true.

    I deal with a version of this. I “have” to spend a lot of time keeping on on anti-trans nonsense. Partly because it effects me directly, but also because of the group I help run. I’m relatively wealthy (woo hoo upper middle class rat race), have a home, a job I can’t get fired from, and a very stable family support system. I feel a duty to help some of these young adults or older people who are just starting their transitions. We have had at least 3 red state refugees come through our group. So, I need to keep up on what the next horror coming down the pike is.

    It sucks and is wildly depressing. Right now I think smug musicians spouting nonsense is my new least favorite genre. Screw you Carlos Santana and Roisin Murphy.

    4
  52. Beth says:

    @Gustopher:
    @Kathy:

    I kinda figure some of those plot holes are going to get filled in with the World Between Worlds and Mortis stuff. I suspect that will piss off a lot of people.

    1
  53. Kathy says:

    @Gustopher:
    @Beth:

    Spoiler alert.

    In the Rebels finale, we know Ezra disappears before Luke takes down the Death Star, Han gets frozen, and Lando takes down the second Death Star. But the epilogue narration left me with the impression Sabine and Ahsoka left to look for him once the Empire was finished, right after the emperor died and there were celebrations all over the galaxy.

    Instead it was many years after all that. Time enough for the exposition in Jedi training, falling out, looking for Thrawn (presumably to be able to find Ezra as well), meeting Din and Grogu, shunting them to Luke, etc.

    The World Between Worlds was my favorite Rebels ep. the second must be the one where Chopper finds a spare leg strut in a market.

    1
  54. Michael J Reynolds says:

    @Gustopher:
    So, now are you asking if I’m a pinko because I talk about exploitation of the working man by big business? I use the jargon people understand, the shorthand.

    Otherwise I might get wordy.

    I’ve was reading a book on Buddhism not long ago, and the notion of Right Consumption is there, with the notion that what you read/eat/etc changes you, and while I didn’t completely buy it, I’ve also seen how people slide down the alt-right pipeline and get radicalized by starting with seemingly innocuous shit. So, I don’t think it’s untrue, even if I don’t think it’s always true.

    It’s basically GIGO, Garbage In, Garbage Out. I think that’s true to one extent or another, for most people. I’ve said many times the willful credulity of religious people, especially the distinctly anti-intellectual religion of evangelicals, creates a nice, well-lubricated pathway for Trump and any other abusive pseudo-macho daddy figure. Faith is an open door in your brain, it might admit anything.

    The problem with controlling your input is you. In deciding what to let in you’re using your prior knowledge to asses the T or F of it. IOW, how do you know what’s OK or not? How do you avoid confirmation bias?

    I’ve got a lifelong case of oppositional defiant disorder. I am not wired for going along. I have what I always thought of as a Jewish aversion to crowds acting or god forbid singing in unison. Even if they aren’t singing in German. I don’t go to concerts, have not been at a party since Watergate, last 30 minutes in a protest and refuse to chant, avoid theaters of all kinds unless I’m alone on the stage, have zero interest in sports. If I had not met Katherine I could easily be a recluse.

    2
  55. Beth says:

    @Michael J Reynolds:

    I’ve got a lifelong case of oppositional defiant disorder. I am not wired for going along. I have what I always thought of as a Jewish aversion to crowds acting or god forbid singing in unison. Even if they aren’t singing in German. I don’t go to concerts, have not been at a party since Watergate, last 30 minutes in a protest and refuse to chant, avoid theaters of all kinds unless I’m alone on the stage, have zero interest in sports. If I had not met Katherine I could easily be a recluse.

    I think you should take me to Burning Man…

    3
  56. DrDaveT says:

    @Neil Hudelson:

    ETA: Love “The Bear,” just hate the sheer number of ‘dramedies’ taking all the comedy oxygen.

    This.

    At a time when we all desperately need screwball comedy as anodyne, everyone is peddling either catharsis or nihilism. I need to go watch a marathon of Bringing Up Baby, It’s a Mad Mad Mad Mad World, What’s Up Doc, and Top Secret…

    2
  57. Michael Reynolds says:

    @Beth:
    People, noise, heat, dust and Port-a-potties? Sign me up!

    My minimum travel requirements are 1) a lie-flat bed in the air for anything over 2000 miles, 2) a bar at any hotel, 3) extra pillows, 4) 24 hour room service, 5) a suite (junior suite is fine, I’m not an asshole), 6) a view, and 7) decent WiFi. Also a bar, or did I already mention that? I used to have an in-room minibar in my rider, but. . . Britain. Not a great hotel country.

  58. Michael Reynolds says:

    @DrDaveT:

    At a time when we all desperately need screwball comedy as anodyne, everyone is peddling either catharsis or nihilism.

    This. We used to understand that when things get grim we need the Marx Brothers and Busby Berkeley. Coming out of Covid it was like, ‘would you enjoy a show about sad people being sad?’

    2