Monday’s Forum

FILED UNDER: Open Forum
Steven L. Taylor
About Steven L. Taylor
Steven L. Taylor is a Professor of Political Science and a College of Arts and Sciences Dean. His main areas of expertise include parties, elections, and the institutional design of democracies. His most recent book is the co-authored A Different Democracy: American Government in a 31-Country Perspective. He earned his Ph.D. from the University of Texas and his BA from the University of California, Irvine. He has been blogging since 2003 (originally at the now defunct Poliblog). Follow Steven on Twitter

Comments

  1. OzarkHillbilly says:

    Gay rights campaigners have welcomed Dame Kelly Holmes’ decision to come out at the age of 52, in a move that sparked questions about how many older people remain afraid to be open about their sexuality after growing up in more homophobic times.

    The double Olympic gold medallist lifted a painful 34-year public silence on her sexuality on Sunday, saying that she felt as if she was going to “explode with excitement” by finally coming out after years in which she felt depressed, anxious and even suicidal, keeping her secret from all but close family and friends.

    Holmes, who realised she was a lesbian when she kissed a fellow female soldier in the army in 1988, told the Sunday Mirror: “It was illegal to be gay in the army. The risk, if you were caught, was to be arrested, court-martialled, thrown out, sometimes jailed. I had wanted to be in the armed forces since I was 14 and was desperate to stay in, so couldn’t let them know. But it was really hard because it consumed my life with fear.”

    She described how after winning gold medals in the 800m and 1,500m at the Athens Olympics in 2004, she was plagued with worry that she would be outed.

    “The reason I didn’t want it to come out was that I didn’t really know people in sport … that were gay,” she said. “The ban in the army had only been lifted four years [before] and I had never asked anyone if there was any sort of retribution if I said something. I was still absolutely petrified.

    “I needed to do this now, for me,” she told the Sunday Mirror. “It was my decision. I’m nervous about saying it. I feel like I’m going to explode with excitement. Sometimes I cry with relief. The moment this comes out, I’m essentially getting rid of that fear.”
    ……………………..
    Holmes said: “There have been lots of dark times where I wished I could scream that I am gay – but I couldn’t. I was convinced throughout my whole life that if I admitted to being gay in the army, I’d still be in trouble.”

    Holmes told the Sunday Mirror that when she was 23 her barracks were searched by the Royal Military police and she believed it was to find out whether any of the soldiers were lesbians.

    In 2003 she cut herself with scissors before the World Athletics Championships in France. She recalled: “I was in a holding camp bathroom and literally wanted to scream so loud, I put the tap on to dull my tears. I did not want to be here any more.”

    7
  2. CSK says:

    The Jan. 6 committee says it may subpoena Mike Pence.

    I hope they do.

    9
  3. Scott says:

    There are several indexes published to measure economic competitiveness. This is one I read about in the local business section.

    World Competitiveness Ranking

    The World Competitiveness Yearbook (WCY) is a comprehensive annual report and worldwide reference point on the competitiveness of countries

    The IMD World Competitiveness Yearbook (WCY), first published in 1989, is a comprehensive annual report and worldwide reference point on the competitiveness of countries. It provides benchmarking and trends, as well as statistics and survey data based on extensive research. It analyzes and ranks countries according to how they manage their competencies to achieve long-term value creation. An economy’s competitiveness cannot be reduced only to GDP and productivity because enterprises also have to cope with political, social and cultural dimensions. Governments therefore need to provide an environment characterized by efficient infrastructures, institutions and policies that encourage sustainable value creation by the enterprises.

    The socialist hellhole Denmark took first place followed by

    Denmark improved in international investment and performed robustly in government efficiency – particularly in its institutional framework (2nd), business legislation (3rd) and societal framework (2nd). It performed outstandingly in business efficiency (1st), productivity and efficiency (1st) and management practices (1st).

    “Denmark’s economic performance has risen sharply, and this is driven by increases in investment flows in the country, a contained rise in prices compared to other developed economies and by the strengthening of public finances with a reduction in public debt and government deficit

    Denmark was followed by Switzerland, Singapore, and Sweden. USA was ranked 10th.

    Denmark is often on the lists of “happiest countries”.

    9
  4. OzarkHillbilly says:

    Yogi Berra: the man behind baseball’s greatest catchphrases

    Yogi Berra took a lot of ribbing for his looks when he joined the New York Yankees in the 1940s. The Pinstripes were the premier organization in Major League Baseball, and their new backstop was told he was too ugly to be a Yankee. Yet he went on to an extraordinary career in MLB, first as a player and then as a manager, making quirky, and often incisive, observations throughout, including “It ain’t over till it’s over” (although there is some doubt whether he ever uttered that phrase). A new documentary on Berra references this “Yogi-ism” in its title – It Ain’t Over, directed by Sean Mullin.

    The film is a sweet tribute to Berra, who died at age 90 in 2015. It recently made its world premiere at the Tribeca Film Festival, and is also screening at the Nantucket Film Festival, which starts on 22 June. Berra’s granddaughter Lindsay Berra, who features in the film, praises her grandfather’s response to jokes from teammates about his appearance.

    “He had the witty response, ‘I never saw anyone hit with his face,’” Lindsay Berra says. “I know he was really good at letting stuff roll off of his back.”

    I’m gonna have to keep my eyes open for this one.

    5
  5. Skookum says:

    Why Oregon’s voter turnout hit its highest levels for a gubernatorial primary since 2010

    Governor race
    New district lines
    Mail-in ballots

    More than 37% of registered voters voted. Over 50% in the deep red county where I live. My sense is that the push to fill non-partisan positions with Republicans was also factor for local turn-out., along with the word-of-mouth campaign to stop a transit lodge tax that was branded as an anti-tourist trade measure rather than a means to collect revenue from visitors who use county and city services.

    2
  6. Kathy says:

    @CSK:

    He should explain why he witnessed attempts to throw a coup and didn’t notify any competent authorities.

    2
  7. Mimai says:

    @OzarkHillbilly:
    I love that you plugged this. Sean (the director) is a friend and a genuinely good guy. Super talented too. This Yogi documentary has been a beast to pull together. I really hope that people “get it.”

    On a completely different note, despite it not being my genre of choice, I really enjoyed Sean’s debut film Amira & Sam. He even makes a cameo as a stand-up, which is another one of the many hats he has worn.

    Oh, and did I mention that he graduated from West Point and was OIC of National Guard soldiers on site following 9/11?!

    2
  8. OzarkHillbilly says:

    @Mimai: On a completely different note, despite it not being my genre of choice, I really enjoyed Sean’s debut film Amira & Sam. He even makes a cameo as a stand-up, which is another one of the many hats he has worn.

    Oh, and did I mention that he graduated from West Point and was OIC of National Guard soldiers on site following 9/11?!

    Funnily enough, the article mentioned all these points.

    4
  9. MarkedMan says:

    There was a discussion over the weekend that touched, once again, on a middle-ground third party, or some other way of attracting “moderates”. I didn’t participate because the whole premise seemed off to me, and this morning I realized why.

    Most people cast their vote based on impulse and inertia, making it difficult to change enough votes to make a difference. Fortunately a much smaller number are actual influencers, and if you get them they act as multipliers. But the entire premise of attracting anyone is that there is some political middle ground that would appeal to these influencers. But the important way the parties have moved apart is not along a line of political opinion, which would allow for one or both to change positions on that line and bring in a wider range of voters. Rather, the parties have moved apart on their view of the fundamental purpose of government, and the differences are so fundamental that there simply is no middle ground.

    1
  10. Mimai says:

    @OzarkHillbilly:
    Ha! That’s great. And unexpected. Not having read it, I just assumed the article would focus on Yogi, which would be completely understandable. I wanted to celebrate my friend. No apologies for that.

    3
  11. OzarkHillbilly says:

    ‘Fluffy’ crab that wears a sponge as a hat discovered in Western Australia

    A “fluffy” crab discovered off the coast of Western Australia has been named after the ship that carried Charles Darwin around the world. The new species, Lamarckdromia beagle, belongs to the Dromiidae family, commonly known as sponge crabs. Crustaceans in this family fashion and use sea sponges and ascidians – animals including sea squirts – for protection. They trim the creatures using their claws and wear them like hats.

    Dr Andrew Hosie, a curator of crustacea and worms at the Western Australian Museum, said sponge crabs had hind legs that were specially adapted for holding their protective hats. “The sponge or ascidian just keeps growing and will mould to the shape of the crab’s back,” he said. “It will never attach … it forms a nice cap that fits quite snugly to the top of the crab.”

    It’s really kinda cute.

    1
  12. Kathy says:

    Currently I’m reading “Decoding Dogs: Inside the canine mind.” It’s a short Great Courses lecture series. It will be followed by a similar series, “Decoding Cats: Inside the feline mind.” Both are part of the Audible plus catalog. These are audio books you get included in your subscription.

    I’m not sure what I’ll get to after these two.

  13. CSK says:

    I can’t begin to summarize this piece. You have to read it. These people are beyond delusional:

    http://www.news.yahoo.com/amid-jan-6-testimony-trump-174501411.html

  14. DK says:

    Rep. Dan Crenshaw and staff confronted by Proud Boys, far right activists at Texas GOP convention

    The Texas Republican was berated as “Eyepatch McCain” and “a globalist RINO [Republican in name only]” by conspiracy theorist podcast host Alex Stein, who jostled with members of Crenshaw’s entourage at a Houston convention center…

    As other people followed the group and shouted things like “You sold us out” and “You’re a traitor,” Stein was involved in a skirmish with Crenshaw’s team…

    “You’re giving Ukraine all this money, and red flag laws too, Dan?,” a Twitter user named Alex Rosen asked the 38-year-old congressman as he was ushered through a lobby by a uniformed officer while walking with several other people, footage showed.

    The inmates are taking over the asylum.

    The extremist wackiness that was the Texas GQP convention deserves more coverage. If it was Democrats, we’d have wall-to-wall “Dems in disarray” breathlessness, replete with dire predictions for midterm election impact.

    7
  15. Scott says:
  16. DK says:

    Log Cabin Republicans Are SHOCKED That They Were Shut Out of Texas Convention
    “But I never thought the leopards would eat MY face!”

    I get that rich white gays love their tax cuts, but it takes a special brand of mental gymnastics to justify the anti-LGBTQ+ legislation and hate speech pouring out from the Republican Party. And it’s not just empty rhetoric: the relentless targeting of the LGBTQ+ community has seen a rash of attacks, from Proud Boys storming a Drag Queen Story Hour at a public library in California to the U-Haul truck filled with armed Patriot Front members who were arrested on their way to riot at an Idaho Pride event. Republicans are fomenting a moral panic by labeling the LGBTQ+ community as “groomers”, placing a target on the back of anyone who stands against various “Don’t Say Gay” bills…

    LCR president Charles Moran released a statement saying, “Inclusion wins, which makes the Texas Republican Party leadership’s decision to exclude the Texas Log Cabin Republicans from their convention not just narrow-minded, but politically short-sighted.”

    …Many took to social media to revel in the schadenfreude and the fact that their own political party told the LCR to sashay away…

    Many American gays love their segregation and white supremacy too. Source: a decade being black, queer, and out.

    17
  17. Beth says:

    @OzarkHillbilly:

    The closet is hell. Absolute hell. A lifetime of trauma and fear. A good reminder that whenever people start whining about the “explosive growth” of queer people, that for every kid that comes out there are 3-4 old people hiding in their closets. Sitting there terrified that if they acknowledge their own truth they will be ostracized or killed.

    @DK:

    Many American gays love their segregation and white supremacy too. Source: a decade being black, queer, and out.

    Not just love, but are addicted to. I cannot understand how so many queer people think that they will somehow be ok when the White Supremacists take over. The absurd level of delusion it takes to think that once Republicans come to power that they will be the special ones. The Log Cabin people are such stupid buttholes. I despise them.

    13
  18. Kathy says:

    @CSK:

    In the second place, to quote Heinlein, there’s nothing I “gotta do but pay taxes and die.”

    In the first place, once you have an elaborate, impossible, conspiracy theory in your mind labeled as “true” or “what really happened,” it’s easier to add more impossible and elaborate elements to it, than it is to admit you’re wrong.

    Suppose Donnie his own self were to admit losing the election for some reason (maybe to avoid being thrown in prison), his true believers would spin that into some form of 12th dementional chess or something (what?).

    1
  19. CSK says:

    @Kathy:
    Alyssa Farah-Griffin said yesterday that Trump, while watching Biden on television, blurted out: “I can’t believe I lost to this guy.”

  20. DK says:

    @Scott: Oh yeah the new Texas Republican platform is bonkers. Extreme and radical, opposing the 1965 Voting Rights Act, codifying Trump’s sore loser election lies that incited the deadly Jan 6 terror attack, and just general far right nuttery:

    The platform says that Texas students should be shown live ultrasounds as a way to deter against abortion and be taught that life begins at fertilization. At the same time, it demands that the state outlaw all sex and sexual health education—even abstinence-only sex ed. Meanwhile, it says that young people are the “most likely to need to defend themselves” and thus should have access to guns without waiting periods for “emergencies such as riots.”

    But all we’ll hear from the pundit class is Democrats are too woke and Biden is going too far left. For, um, saying climate change is real and trying to keep healthcare and childcare from bankrupting middle and working class families or something.

    6
  21. Michael Reynolds says:

    @Scott:
    Interesting to me that only very small economies outperformed the US. The largest of the first nine is Taiwan. The US GDP is 31 times the size of Taiwan’s. We outperform every other large economy – Germany, UK, France, China, India, Korea, Japan, Canada. It does not seem to make us happy, but it’s impressive nonetheless to trounce the Germans who are so often held up as exemplars of efficiency. We are the McDonald’s of nations – both huge and productive. Denmark is more In-N-Out.

  22. Michael Reynolds says:

    @DK:

    But all we’ll hear from the pundit class is Democrats are too woke and Biden is going too far left. For, um, saying climate change is real and trying to keep healthcare and childcare from bankrupting middle and working class families or something.

    Well, what you’ll hear from me is not that we are too far left in terms of justice or fairness, but in terms of winning elections, appealing to Hispanic voters, reaching out beyond the blue states, yes we are probably too far left. In fact our Left is too far left for many Democrats.

    I go back to the fact that Democrats think we’re running a seminar and Republicans think they’re fighting a war. On the one hand there’s what is correct, and on the other hand there is what wins. Given our superior numbers, our advantages in education and our cultural dominance, we should not be losing. And yet we are. We can keep pretending it ain’t so, but it is, and when you’re losing it’s wise to take an open-minded look at just why that is the case.

    3
  23. Stormy Dragon says:

    So it turns out that one of Elon Musk’s daughters filed a court petition for a name and gender change more or less the minute she turned 18:

    https://unicourt.com/case/ca-la23-in-the-matter-of-xavier-alexander-musk-839201

    Which puts her dad’s public freakout about trans people the last few months in a new light.

    9
  24. Gustopher says:

    @DK:

    Meanwhile, it says that young people are the “most likely to need to defend themselves” and thus should have access to guns without waiting periods for “emergencies such as riots.”

    It’s far more dangerous to be homeless than simply young, which is why I support Handguns For The Homeless. We should have a pilot program in Texas to see how it affects crime rates.

    4
  25. Scott says:

    @Michael Reynolds:

    I go back to the fact that Democrats think we’re running a seminar and Republicans think they’re fighting a war.

    Yep, from the same GOP Texas Convention, words from my own State Senator:

    The mood of this convention was not hopeful. The themes ran dark, and activists spoke in apocalyptic, even cataclysmic, terms about the state of the country.

    “Everything is topsy-turvy. What’s right is wrong and what’s wrong is right,” said state Sen. Donna Campbell, an emergency room doctor in New Braunfels, reflecting a state of uncertainty that is shared by Americans of many political backgrounds, even if they don’t agree on the causes. “Our country is on a trajectory to self-destruct, unless we change the direction.”

    Campbell and other activists frequently spoke of their Christian faith.

    “I believe that in the sovereignty of God, you and I were purposely born into this moment, into this confusing time that we face,“ Campbell said. “We’re meant to be alive, at this time, right now, and here in this state.”

  26. Gustopher says:

    @Stormy Dragon: And don’t forget that Grimes left him for Chelsea Manning.

    1
  27. wr says:

    @Michael Reynolds: “Given our superior numbers, our advantages in education and our cultural dominance, we should not be losing”

    Except for the massive disadvantages built into the system, so that, for instance, 40% of the country elects 60% of the Senate. But since you already know about this, then I can only assume you choose to ignore it for your own reasons…

    6
  28. Gustopher says:

    @Michael Reynolds:

    we are probably too far left. In fact our Left is too far left for many Democrats.

    I go back to the fact that Democrats think we’re running a seminar and Republicans think they’re fighting a war. On the one hand there’s what is correct, and on the other hand there is what wins. Given our superior numbers, our advantages in education and our cultural dominance, we should not be losing.

    What policies do you think Democrats should abandon to win? Or adopt?

    I don’t think it’s a matter of policy. If Democrats were to get together and somehow agree and say “you know what, it’s ok to say the n-word, go for it,” it wouldn’t win them any votes. If we were to moderate or capitulate on anything the battle lines would just move, and voters would think Democrats are just wimps and losers.

    I don’t think it’s a matter of being too far left, it’s a matter of style — Democrats aren’t viewed as fighters. Top to bottom, Democrats are boring.

    On the other hand, our nominee for Pennsylvania Senate to take on Doctor Oz is basically a cross between Shrek and Gritty, and I have great hopes for his future. We need fewer geeks, and more people who look like stereotypical Teamsters.

    7
  29. MarkedMan says:

    @Kathy: I’m reading a sci-fi book right now, “When the Sparrow Falls” that I recommend (I’m halfway through). Kind of like a cross between Soviet Noir (think “Gorky Park”) and AI futurism

    1
  30. OzarkHillbilly says:

    @Beth: The closet is hell. Absolute hell. A lifetime of trauma and fear.

    Yep, tho being a straight white male I just have to take my gay friends’ word for it. Seriously, I can’t imagine what it’s like hiding who one really is from the world.

    1
  31. Michael Reynolds says:

    @wr:

    But since you already know about this, then I can only assume you choose to ignore it for your own reasons…

    Yes. My own reasons being that there’s not a damn thing we can do about it, so I’d rather focus where we can do something.

    @Gustopher:
    I don’t think we need to walk back any positions, but rather, as you suggest, we need to stop needlessly alienating people (condescension, language policing), stop making fools of ourselves (all things San Francisco) and take to heart the fact that we are in a battle to save American democracy and fucking fight. We could start by agreeing that at this point in history the candidate to run in any given race is the one most likely to win.

    6
  32. MarkedMan says:

    @wr:

    Except for the massive disadvantages built into the system, so that, for instance, 40% of the country elects 60% of the Senate.

    You seem to be taking for granted that Dems are incapable of taking any of the square states. I don’t see that as a given. But how much do Dems talk about the things square state people are interested in? Most people are motivated by what they feel affects them and their family. I’ve gone to a few marches in Washington since 2016 and a few local Baltimore events and, as god as my witness, it was speaker after speaker after speaker going on and on and on about the same handful of issues. Great. We are pure on that. How many times do you have to send that home? Isn’t there time for a couple of speakers at, say, The Women’s March, for someone representing women’s issues other than LGBTQ or Abortion Rights? How about making sure kids (yes even poor and middleclass white kids) in rural areas get the kind of education that will land them a decent job? Geezus Sneezes, you listen to your average Democratic event and you wouldn’t even know that white kids exist and that their parents worry about them and are highly motivated to find someone who they feel will fight for them and their family. It’s the height of naivete to think that there is some huge number of voters out there that are more concerned about other people’s kids than theirs, more concerned about other people’s healthcare than theirs.

    8
  33. MarkedMan says:

    @MarkedMan: God help me (and all of you), you’ve got me on a soapbox here. I think there is a path to change who the midwest and farming mountain states resents. People are more motivated by resentment than hope, and instead of accepting they are inevitably going to resent the Coastal States, how about breeding resentment towards the frickin’ Jim Crow South, who dominate every office of the Republican establishment, and drag everything into yet another rehash of the Southern resentment and cussedness? Why do we assume that these Midwesterners are easily goaded into resenting and despising the godless, elitist people from NYC, but can’t just as easily be goaded into resenting the eternally slighted Mississippians who drag the whole country into their sordid drama at every chance?

    4
  34. Gustopher says:

    @Beth:

    The closet is hell. Absolute hell. A lifetime of trauma and fear. A good reminder that whenever people start whining about the “explosive growth” of queer people, that for every kid that comes out there are 3-4 old people hiding in their closets. Sitting there terrified that if they acknowledge their own truth they will be ostracized or killed.

    This is one of the hesitations I had with Pete Buttigieg for President — the damage that living in the closet can do to someone. Bottling up all that fear and rage for decades. He had only came out a few years before running, and married his first boyfriend — emotionally, he should be either deeply stunted or just not there.

    If a collection of previous flames had popped up, saying things like “Pete was only in the closet on paper”, I would have been much more comfortable with him — I liked him, and he was probably my second choice after Warren, but the closet can do a lot of damage, and denying that much of oneself is scary.

    I cannot understand how so many queer people think that they will somehow be ok when the White Supremacists take over. The absurd level of delusion it takes to think that once Republicans come to power that they will be the special ones. The Log Cabin people are such stupid buttholes. I despise them.

    I could understand them in the 80s and 90s — neither party was good for queer folks, although the Dems were a little better. And people define themselves pretty young, so I’m willing to give a mild pass on this* to anyone over say 55 — anyone younger should have seen the changes. Don’t get me wrong, they’re deluded sociopaths, but I can understand the delusion.

    The younger ones are just monsters. They think that the Republicans will be satisfied with just the trans folks, and they are very, very wrong. They deserve everything bad that happens to them.

    *: Just the gay rights part. The supporting insurrection and autocracy and embracing white supremacists… not so much.

    4
  35. Gustopher says:

    @Michael Reynolds:

    We could start by agreeing that at this point in history the candidate to run in any given race is the one most likely to win.

    That’s kind of a meaningless statement though, given that everyone thinks someone just like them is going to be the one most likely to win.

    How many people still believe that Bernie would have beaten Trump in 2016 by changing the electorate? Or that we need to run Republican-lite candidates in the Midwest?

    Or my belief that we need to nominate George Clooney in 2024 because America doesn’t want a president, America wants a spokesmodel?

    All looney views*, all fixated on running the candidate who can win.

    *: except the George Clooney thing.

    3
  36. Michael Reynolds says:

    @MarkedMan:
    We could combine student debt forgiveness with major funding to build community colleges in rural areas, for example. And maybe look at a way to subsidize medical clinics in under-served areas.

    6
  37. Michael Reynolds says:

    @Gustopher:
    Yes, well Democrats would need to stop being fantasists.

    1
  38. Michael Reynolds says:

    A glimmer of hope:

    58% of Americans think Trump should be charged with a crime for his role in the riot.

    2
  39. Gustopher says:

    @MarkedMan:

    Geezus Sneezes, you listen to your average Democratic event and you wouldn’t even know that white kids exist and that their parents worry about them and are highly motivated to find someone who they feel will fight for them and their family.

    Given that Build Back Better isn’t going to happen, and we have a reconciliation bill that is going to go to waste, I’m really disappointed that we haven’t done an end run around Manchin by just taking Romney’s Child Tax Credit proposal and trying to get that done.

    We’d need 50 votes. If we can get Romney to support his own plan, we don’t need Manchin.

    8
  40. Mikey says:

    @MarkedMan:

    Why do we assume that these Midwesterners are easily goaded into resenting and despising the godless, elitist people from NYC, but can’t just as easily be goaded into resenting the eternally slighted Mississippians who drag the whole country into their sordid drama at every chance?

    Because those Midwesterners have far more in common culturally with the South than they do with the coasts.

    You’ll see as many Confederate battle flags flying in rural Michigan as you will in any of the former Confederate states.

    4
  41. SC_Birdflyte says:

    @Michael Reynolds: If there aren’t any Democratic strategists who can use the planks in the Texas GOP platform as a lead-in and attention-getter for this fall, why the hell aren’t there.

  42. JohnSF says:

    @Michael Reynolds:
    @Gustopher:
    Our systems and politics are radically different.
    But that said:
    Labour under Jeremy Corbyn polled 30% to 34% (apart from a few outliers) and Corbyn’s personal approval levels were abysmal, averaging minus 40 IIRC.

    Labour under Keir Starmer, now at 40%, overall opposition votes in England (which have also risen post-Corbyn: it’s explicable but complicated) c.53%, Conservatives now on 30 to 34%: reversal!

    Starmer doesn’t enthuse the base; but critically he doesn’t alienate the swingable vote. (similar to Joe Biden?)
    Johnson now does.
    So Labour now on course to be largest party after the next election, by standing pat, and letting the Conservatives stampede ahead to failure.

    There are lessons here, in my un-humble opinion.

    4
  43. Gustopher says:

    @Michael Reynolds: Again, that doesn’t really say anything practical. Which are the fantasists?

    AOC is a great candidate for her district. Sherrod Brown is way to the left of Ohio but succeeds by being Sherrod Brown.

    And, contrarily, Republicans don’t seem to be hobbled by fantasists. They have their Jewish Space Laser Lady and it’s just fine for them — they don’t spend their time piling on attacks on their radical wing. They run the craziest morherfucker they can find in every race and don’t worry about it.

    Quite simply, your thought is incomplete, and you’re covering the gap with a tautology — if we run the candidate most likely to win, we will win more.

    I suspect you want to say “let’s purge the progressives” or “shut up about X”, at least based on your history, but that doesn’t always fit into running the candidate most likely to win.

    5
  44. JohnSF says:

    Of course, Democrats unable to let voters pin current economic problems on the majority party, which Labour can.
    But surely, there is considerable scope for winning over centre votes by showing the Republicans to be led by a loon?

    1
  45. Gustopher says:

    @Mikey: The confederate flags are just virtue signaling (well, vice signaling) to be the loudest asshole on the block. It’s fascist fashion for maybe 10% who were never going to be reachable anyway.

    (There’s a whole ‘nother chunk of more discrete fascists above that 10%)

    Why is the story of the South (“the bad man came and done freed our slaves”) resonating with the Midwest? It’s not really a cultural embrace of the South, as the Midwest has its own culture. A culture that, by the way, includes the abolitionists who were very much opposed to the Southern culture.

    Why don’t we have a better, competing story?

    The southern story is revanchist — the past was better than the future will be, so let’s try to go back. The Midwest has been hit hard by the collapse of manufacturing, so revanchist nonsense has some appeal. But it’s not a cultural connection.

    3
  46. Mu Yixiao says:

    @JohnSF:

    So Labour now on course to be largest party after the next election, by standing pat, and letting the Conservatives stampede ahead to failure.

    Which may work for the Brits, but is unlikely to for Americans. We’re a far more cantankerous lot than our cousins across the pond. There’s an old Marx Brothers song that basically sums up American politics:

    Whatever it is? I’m against it!
    It doesn’t matter what you say
    It doesn’t matter any way
    Whatever it is? I’m against it!

    We’re far, far, more comfortable being against something than for something.

    When I was trying to explain to my Chinese students the cultural differences–especially in “cultural personalities”–between the US and UK, I described it as the UK is an old uncle, and the US is a teenager (with all the contrarian attitude that comes with it).

  47. Kathy says:

    Meantime, there was a presidential election Colombia, and this happened:

    “The outgoing conservative president, Iván Duque, congratulated Petro shortly after results were announced, and Hernández quickly conceded defeat.”

    Remember when this used to happen in America? I swear it was less than a century ago.

    3
  48. Gustopher says:

    @Michael Reynolds: And beds at opioid treatment clinics. Rural America has been hit way harder by that then people on the coasts realize — to the point where I wouldn’t be surprised if half of all the people in these areas personally know someone affected, and the rest just don’t like them underfoot.

    And make sure those community colleges have a good mix of trade school.

    I’d also use/abuse government purchasing power to start rebuilding manufacturing. Wouldn’t it be nice if every paper clip in the US government was manufactured by one of N small (less than 100 employees), locally owned and operated businesses scattered throughout the US? Consider them a private industrial readiness program that can be converted to military use if needed, so they’re an investment in our national defense*, rather than just paying too much for paper clips.

    ——
    *: worst case scenario, you can unfold the paper clip and have a tiny bayonet.

    3
  49. MarkedMan says:

    @Mikey:

    Because those Midwesterners have far more in common culturally with the South than they do with the coasts.

    But that’s just a reflection of messaging. Do you really think Utahans have more in common with Alabama and Florida than they do with the morally upright and uptight New Englanders? That the “stay out of my damn business” people of the Dakotas or Wyoming automatically see themselves in the busybody Southern Baptist judgment culture?

  50. dazedandconfused says:

    @MarkedMan:

    Those judgemental Southern Baptists can be highly forgiving…when it comes to themselves.

    Watch Hershel get forgiven.

    Despite the revelation of so many bastards, I predict Hershel will not pull out of the race. Call it a hunch.

    2
  51. Just nutha ignint cracker says:

    @MarkedMan: Interesting idea. I can’t see the overarching idea that will translate into what George Wallace quaintly referred to as shouting “nigger, nigger, nigger” though.

    *Note to the audience: Please forgive my lapsing into racially charged language, but the idea was too serious (in my mind anyway) for a substitution to have the same impact. We really ARE talking about ginning up animus toward people who we will be debasing (even if deservedly) as “THE OTHER.”

  52. Beth says:

    @OzarkHillbilly:
    @Gustopher:

    I can see that about Buttigieg. I have this trauma response that if I ask my partner (or really anyone, it really doesn’t matter) for anything, could be as simple as buying new towels to something as complex and fraught as transitioning, she is going to leave me and I am going to die alone. I was taught at an early age that Trans people were disgusting, unworthy of love and objects of ridicule. I was also taught that Bi people were crazy, untrustworthy, and disgusting. I took those things into the closet with me and they have come out with me.

    That’s why when I hear things like:

    Well, what you’ll hear from me is not that we are too far left in terms of justice or fairness, but in terms of winning elections, appealing to Hispanic voters, reaching out beyond the blue states, yes we are probably too far left. In fact our Left is too far left for many Democrats.

    From @Michael Reynolds: what I hear is I’m the sacrifice. Almost all Republicans think Trans people are disgusting groomers doing “it” for attention and a sizable portion of Democrats agree. The official position of Gov’s Abbot and Desantis is that not only should Trans kids be tortured and forced to endure a terrible puberty, but that Trans adults should be forcible detransitioned against their will. Again, enough Democrats are either fine with or support this because we are freak shows at best or outright disgusting at worst.

    That’s one thing I like about Fetterman, he’s been unrelenting in his support.

    6
  53. Just nutha ignint cracker says:

    @JohnSF: “But surely, there is considerable scope for winning over centre votes by showing the Republicans to be led by a loon?”

    One would think so, but with the crazification factor at ~27% (maybe higher now 🙁 ), you only need 23% total additional bigots and “don’t want to pay taxes” to pretty much run the table in the next 2 election cycles (and that doesn’t even count the “keep muh gunz”s). Those are not high bars to jump.

  54. Kathy says:

    Pandemic restrictions keep on being relaxed, and cases are spiking. Deaths, apparently, are not spiking, though they do increase (and I don’t think we have any Paxlovid around). His Majesty claims it’s due to vaccination, and boasts about being one of the ten countries that has applied the most vaccines.

    The last is true, for a change, and absolutely irrelevant. We have a lower percentage of people with two doses than in the US, and lower still for boosters (how in hell I got four doses, I’ll never really know).

    Given a lower vaccination rate, a paucity of testing (even now), anecdotal stories of people with “mild” symptoms being diagnosed with flu, I think what may really be going on is an added protection from prior infection, and still avast under count of current and past cases.

    I’ll keep my mask on and stay away from crowds for a few months longer, maybe a few years.

  55. Mikey says:

    @MarkedMan: I wanted to edit my comment, but of course the fickle edit button decided not to show.

    I would edit it to say: Because those Midwesterners believe they have far more in common culturally with the South than they do with the coasts.

    Which I think actually supports your reply

    But that’s just a reflection of messaging.

    So I guess my question back to you is: how do we get our message out to people in the Midwest who are using the Confederate battle flag as an in-group message of their own? I am not convinced they have much interest in listening, but I could be wrong.

  56. Just nutha ignint cracker says:

    @Gustopher: “…includes the abolitionists who were very much opposed to the Southern culture.”

    [CRT trigger warning] One of the more unfortunate elements of abolitionist fervor and opposition to Southern culture was that abolitionists had no better ideas about where several million freed blacks were going to go than anyone else did. And there was still the question of where all the 40 acres reconstruction plots were going to come from, let alone the mules.

    1
  57. Just nutha ignint cracker says:

    @Beth:

    That’s why when I hear things like:

    Well, what you’ll hear from me is not that we are too far left in terms of justice or fairness, but in terms of winning elections, appealing to Hispanic voters, reaching out beyond the blue states, yes we are probably too far left. In fact our Left is too far left for many Democrats.

    From @Michael Reynolds: what I hear is I’m the sacrifice.

    Indeed! I wasn’t going to mention it (but since you have, I will), but the thing that stuck out for me as I read MR’s comment is the remarkable tone deafness to the relationship between the first and second ideas in the statement. While he might wish that liberals aren’t too far left on issues of justice or fairness, reality dictates that reaching out beyond the blue states is going to involve where “too far left” is. Unfortunately, “The arc of the moral universe is long, but it bends toward justice” is one of those “in that day, the Lord…” millennialist concepts. It’s got quite a ways to bend still.

    4
  58. Kathy says:

    Maybe Israel should just set the Prime Minister’s term to 8 months.

    I think back in the closing decades of the last century, there was an attempt for direct election of the PM. Perhaps that’d be a good idea when coalition building fails.

  59. DK says:

    @Gustopher:

    It’s far more dangerous to be homeless than simply young, which is why I support Handguns For The Homeless. We should have a pilot program in Texas to see how it affects crime rates.

    This is funnier than any Dave Chappelle bit of the last decade. LOL

    1
  60. OzarkHillbilly says:

    @MarkedMan: How about making sure kids (yes even poor and middleclass white kids) in rural areas get the kind of education that will land them a decent job?

    Ummm, just gotta say that education is a local issue. DEMs can’t do a damn thing about rural schools as long as the local GOP controls the school board and is screaming about CRITICAL RACE THEORY!!! and TEACHERS ARE GROOMING YOUR KIDS!!! and MASKS ARE AN INFRINGEMENT ON YOUR FREEDUMBS!!! (note that none of the latest bugaboos have anything to do with education, which kind of tells you what rural parents think is really important for their kids).

    Geezus Sneezes, you listen to your average Democratic event and you wouldn’t even know that white kids exist and that their parents worry about them and are highly motivated to find someone who they feel will fight for them and their family.

    You must go to different DEM events than I do. Guess what? Rural folks don’t go to DEM events at all. They just turn on FOX so Fucker Carlson can show them highly edited videos and tell them what DEMs are really doing.

    I can’t speak for all rural areas, and I can’t speak for all the DEMs who live in rural areas (all 20+% of them) more than a few of whom definitely have a bit of a pie in the sky issue, but blaming DEMs for the fact that FOX and Newsmax and Sinclair are propaganda outlets and that DEMs have nothing similar (not that it would matter if they did) is a bit much.

    I’ve been living out here for 20+ years and traveling about for over 40 years I can tell you that the amount of disinformation in most folks’ heads is almost enough to make mine explode. I can talk about fishing, hunting, veggie gardening, critter control, trespassing, off road tires, the best shotgun to scare the pants off a meat seller in your driveway, catfish baits, the best fishing holes on the Meramec or Mineral Fork, how to best barbecue raccoon, bacon cures, best chicken feed…. ad nauseum. But I can’t talk politics with these folks. Joe Biden stole the election and that’s all there is to it. Teachers are trying to steal our children, and that’s all there is to it. Biden and Putin have a secret plan to divide up the world, and that’s all there is to it. trump is God’s chosen one, and that’s all there is to it. DEMs want to replace white people, and that’s all there is to it.

    I know people love to pile on DEMs for all that is wrong with American politics (and everybody has the perfect solution to DEM problems in rural areas) but it’s not the fault of DEMs that the GOP has sold rural salt of the earth folks the fantasy that they are blameless. That all of their problems are because those evil urban colored people aren’t giving them their due. Even when time and again DEMs try to do things for rural folk and the GOP denies it to them.

    6
  61. DK says:

    @Michael Reynolds:

    Well, what you’ll hear from me is not that we are too far left in terms of justice or fairness, but in terms of winning elections, appealing to Hispanic voters, reaching out beyond the blue states, yes we are probably too far left.

    And over here in reality and away from the Beltway media’s “Democrats are always losing, Republicans are always winning” fake narrative:

    The White House, Senate, and House have flipped blue since 2016, thanks to Democrats winning elections.

    Democratic outreach + conservative extremism flipped Arizona and Georgia from solid Republicsn states to Biden-voting swing states with two Democratic senators.

    The statewide candidates Democrats are currently running in Pennsylvania and Nevada are comfortably best their GQP rivals in polls.

    2/3+ of Hispanic voters vote Democratic, a percentage well past what is considered landslide territory in electoral politics.

    Narratives are fun, but facts matter.

    4
  62. KM says:

    @MarkedMan:

    Do you really think Utahans have more in common with Alabama and Florida than they do with the morally upright and uptight New Englanders?

    Rural ones? Yes. Because the divide isn’t by state or by coast, it’s by rural vs suburban vs urban. Go to a red area in any state and you will hear the same rhetoric, same concerns. The ideological sorting is that Rural America is getting screwed out of their rightful moral authority and power simply because cities have more people and thus more sinful liberals. The culture of rural America tends to supersede state differences as Pennsyltucky only differentiates from the real thing by weather.

    Uptight New Englanders implies wealth, power and old ties. You know, original America and how dare those snotty Yanks tell Real ‘Murica how to live?! Utahans have that pioneer salt-of-the-earth mythos they cling to, not to mention the whole Mormon-soaked mentality of superior morality for being Jesus’ chosen Nation. There’s a reason there’s more Sov-Cits out there then hanging around ole’ Boston Town. It’s the Old Country, America-style and asking why people further west why think they don’t have much in common with Rhode Island is like asking why they don’t feel commonality with Germany or England. The East Coast is the Old Bad Way (RINOs, Rust Belts and rich WASPs) and the West Coast is the New Bad Way (hippies were invented there!!), leaving the South as the anchor point for conservative Murica “historical” culture.

    As for Florida, it exists in its own little universe of crazy and the fact that half the state came from the North pretty damn recently gets lost in the whole Florida Man / Expat identity. Nobody thinks Florida is part of the South but can’t seem to tell you what it *is*.

    3
  63. Matt says:

    @MarkedMan: I’ve lived and worked in multiple rural areas of this country. In every single one of them the only thing that matters is the R or D. Everything else is just fluff to justify their vote for R. I can’t tell you how many times I’ve heard these people make comments that supported Democratic policies only for those very same people to swear they’d never vote democrat. Some of them will straight up contradict themselves once they find out a policy is the position of the Democratic party. For most of the rural area politics is a team sport. Their daddy voted R just like his daddy so of course they are going to vote R (straight ticket to avoid having to think). How many people do you know that are fans of shitty teams? How those people are generally delusional when it comes to their team? Yeah like that except it’s about R and D instead of the cowboys or whatever…

    3
  64. DK says:

    @Kathy: 5 Israeli national elections in three years lol This is Andrew Yang’s vision for America. Multiparty coalition politics for the win!

    1
  65. JohnSF says:

    @Just nutha ignint cracker:
    If true, true. 🙂
    But surely there’s enormous overlap between crazies, bigots, and minarchist types?
    The additive figure would be 50%, and IIRC Republican identification is around 40%?
    I’m sure I’ve seen polls that identify the hard-core crazy “Trump won” types as only around 25%.
    What would be useful is a survey of intersection of these sorts of opinion, and how strongly they are held beyond the kool-aid drinkers.
    I suspect the combine crazy/bigot/fanatic vote probably tops out around a third.

    I remember a conversation with a Labour Corbyn-inclined activist shortly after the 2019 defeat, who was bewailing the “new conservative coalition” of xenophones, anglo-nationalists and conservative pensioners, that had a lock on at least 40% of the vote: “..it’s all about turnout and enthusiasm now, how can Labour possibly recover, now we no longer have an inspiring leader…”.
    Welp, he was mistaken.

    IMO boring normality will always have a stronger appeal than some people allow for.
    See also: Joe Biden won.

    I’m an incorrigible optimist, I’m afraid (albeit a rather bad tempered one).

    1
  66. MarkedMan says:

    @Just nutha ignint cracker:

    We really ARE talking about ginning up animus toward people who we will be debasing (even if deservedly) as “THE OTHER.”

    Not what I was going for. More like the obnoxious relative that shows up at every family event and if you let them run on they will end up getting everyone shouting at each other. The Jim Crow Republicans have the square states convinced that sordid drama is the norm. We only need them to realize everybody loses when we operate on the drama queens rules. Everyone is better off when cooler, more mature heads prevail, even the sordid relative.

  67. MarkedMan says:

    @Mikey:

    how do we get our message out to people in the Midwest who are using the Confederate battle flag as an in-group message of their own?

    That is way above my pay grade. I will settle for the everyday folks who have somehow been convinced they are on team “Southern Babtist Drama Queen”. If we can peel off enough of them the remaining obnoxious pro-slavery crowd will only reinforce how much decent people aren’t Like them.

  68. Matt says:

    @Matt: For the clearest example yet look at Bill Barr. Barr spent hours talking about how detached from reality Trump was in front of the jan 6 committee. Then Barr stated he’d still vote for Trump if he ran in 2024….

    A highly educated man who saw first hand the damage Trump was doing has no qualms with voting Trump back into office because of the R…

    3
  69. Gustopher says:

    @Matt:

    I can’t tell you how many times I’ve heard these people make comments that supported Democratic policies only for those very same people to swear they’d never vote democrat.

    It can’t be that high, otherwise Republicans would be moderated by the primaries. But, let’s assume there is a silent majority that secretly supports Democratic policies…

    We have Democrats that can compete in red states — Tester, Sherrod Brown, Steve Bullock has been successful, the folks in Georgia… I’m not saying it is easy, but you have to compete to win, and in this climate, that’s a bit of an uphill fight but doable. The candidates have to control the narrative.

    Build a regional brand. As often as we hear about The Squad, we should be hearing about Central Democrats — everything from tv appearances to glossy spreads in the NYTimes magazine (not that their constituents read The NYTimes, but the Times leads the media narrative). Challenge Schumer for leadership. Become an actual wing of the party rather than just the milquetoast mediocrities in square states.

  70. MarkedMan says:

    @OzarkHillbilly:

    You must go to different DEM events than I do.

    And you must have missed the part where I spent hours and hours at The Women’s March in DC listening to speaker after speaker after speaker talk about LBGTQ issues, racial issues, and abortion. Those are important issues and I’m glad Dems are on the right side but they are not the only issues. And to have, what, a half million people show up from all over the country, many of whom were worried about other things in addition to those things, or yes, instead of those things. But I can’t recall a single speaker talking about those other concerns, at least not as their principle message. And I’ve been to a half dozen smaller events that had essentially the same rostrum. Heck, I was at a couple of Black Lives Matter protests, a place where it would make sense to focus entirely on racial issues, and we still had to run through the list.

    I don’t know who organizes these events but it seems to be about checking the boxes and making sure every little group is represented and then hour after hour of someone up there telling us THEIR story and how THEY overcame all these odds. Look, I get it and it’s great they have their day to shine in front of a huge crowd, but 20-30 of these stories hour after hour after hour? You manage to get all those people together and there is nothing about next steps, nothing about how to organize at the local level, nothing about who to apply pressure to? And no follow up to mention. Hell the women’s March organizers fell apart into a purity squabble before it even got started. A half million people anxious to do something and the organizers were spending all their time back-biting on social media.

    I’m sure red events are the same, or maybe their own shade of bad, but I don’t go to them.

    What a f*cking waste of potential.

    3
  71. Matt says:

    @Gustopher:

    It can’t be that high, otherwise Republicans would be moderated by the primaries.

    Less then 9% of registered votes will even bother with primaries. There’s been a large number of conversations on this blog over the last +10 years about how the crazies have outsized influence due to primaries. People can barely be bothered to show up to vote at the election proper let alone a primary prior. Only the hardcore motivated bother..

    Also would note how many aspects of the ACA polled very well right up until it was called the affordable care act… You see this all over the place on polling. Things will poll great right up until they run into GOP talking points. Then the republican voter is reminded they are supposed to be against it..

    We have Democrats that can compete in red states

    Because like I said prior a lot of democratic policies poll pretty well. It’s just once they are attached to a D or run into a trigger word then suddenly support collapses.

    Build a regional brand. As often as we hear about The Squad, we should be hearing about Central Democrats

    That group already exists and it’s called “Blue dog democrats”. You might remember them from their obstruction of reasonable democratic policies in the late 90s and 2000s. They are still around BTW

    1
  72. Just nutha ignint cracker says:

    @OzarkHillbilly:

    Teachers are trying to steal our children…

    That one isn’t even limited to rurals. Back when I was living in my upper middle suburb of Seattle, teachers stealing our kids was a popular legend/myth/viewpoint/whatever.

    Of course, because I was traveling in the company of evangelicals in those days, it was “secularist teachers are stealing our kids.” Even I was questionable, and I was seeing their kids for a whole 50 minutes a day, so there’s no telling what sort of damage I could inflict.

  73. Just nutha ignint cracker says:

    @DK: Dueling statistics is always a fun game. I would add a cautionary “for now” or “last election” to your argument, but clearly you march to the beat of a different drummer, so go wherever your muse leads you.

  74. DK says:

    @Just nutha ignint cracker: No, I march to the beat of facts, data, and reality. Too many of y’all march to the beat of being controlled and manipulated by the phony narratives of the corporate media. It’s a major problem with this country, one of the reasons Trump’s fascism came to power.

    Remember when the Very Serious Media People convinced the country that Hillary’s emails was the world’s biggest scandal and a bigger issue that Trump’s white supremacy and manifest unfitness for office, when those of us who live in reality and can think for ourselves said otherwise? Well, this is similar.

    No cautionary adds are needed: when the facts change, then we change our statements. When Democrats *actually* start losing elections and losing Hispanic voters, then we can say “Democrats are losing elections and losing Hispanic voters.” But I’m not the one marching to a “different drum” when I point out the that Democrats have won enough elections to control government and are winning Hispanic voters at supermajority numbers. The ones marching to a different drum are those who push fake facts and half-truths, because white media men tell them to.

    2
  75. DK says:

    Matt:

    A highly educated man who saw first hand the damage Trump was doing has no qualms with voting Trump back into office because of the R…

    A degree is no substitute for decency and morals.

    2
  76. Gavin says:

    Pete Buttigieg is wildly incompetent – just another empty suit. He’s happy to Be Photographed Smiling With Others, but when it comes to actually tackling a problem, especially when that problem is a creation of corporate power, he’s absolutely not the man for the job. Anyone thinking he’s presidential material is someone you should stop listening to.

    One
    Two

    Every substantive issue includes a dynamic of corporate power making money while they don’t solve that problem.. doing nothing isn’t an option, Pete.
    Well, it’s always an option, but not for people who get stuff done.

    1
  77. Jen says:

    @Gavin: I voted for Buttigieg in the NH primary, and would do so again. He’s far from an empty suit, and given the passage of the Infrastructure Bill, he’s one of the few Dems in D.C. right now who is actually doing anything.

    2