Saturday’s Forum

FILED UNDER: Open Forum
James Joyner
About James Joyner
James Joyner is Professor and Department Head of Security Studies at Marine Corps University's Command and Staff College and a nonresident senior fellow at the Scowcroft Center for Strategy and Security at the Atlantic Council. He's a former Army officer and Desert Storm vet. Views expressed here are his own. Follow James on Twitter @DrJJoyner.

Comments

  1. Bill says:
  2. OzarkHillbilly says:

    Dr. Tom Frieden@DrTomFrieden
    Replying to
    @DrTomFrieden
    Great new data on self-reported mask-wearing. More masks→less illness. Shameful misrepresentation of CDC study which found restaurants, bars, and family members with Covid associated with illness. Masks are a low-cost, effective way to reduce spread. https://bit.ly/37csil0 5/15

    Funny how closely these 2 maps correlate, just amaaaaaaaaazing.

    ReplyReply
    3
  3. Bill says:
  4. OzarkHillbilly says:

    From One arrested in threat to kidnap and kill Wichita mayor over COVID-19 mask mandate:

    In July, Whipple proposed and shepherded a city ordinance that requires protective face coverings to be worn in most public settings in an attempt to prevent the spread of the coronavirus that has caused the COVID-19 pandemic.

    That ordinance is extremely unpopular with a segment of Wichita society who showed up in force Sept. 8. At that council meeting, 120 people spoke for about seven hours in opposition to the mask mandate.

    Many of the speakers said their resistance is rooted in their belief that the mask mandate violates their constitutional rights or religious beliefs.

    Whipple has been an online target of local anti-mask activists after he pushed for the city to implement a citywide mask requirement as COVID-19 cases surged ahead of the Fourth of July weekend. He said he believes the man’s threat was credible and that he will have an increased security presence around his home to protect him and his family.

    I really want to know exactly which constitutional rights or religious beliefs they think are being violated by having to wear a mask.

    ReplyReply
    10
  5. OzarkHillbilly says:

    @Bill: Gawd save me…

    ReplyReply
  6. OzarkHillbilly says:

    QAnon: a timeline of violence linked to the conspiracy theory

    These people:

    30 April 2020: A woman is arrested after driving to New York and allegedly making threatening statements against Joe Biden and Hillary Clinton.

    Jessica Prim, who posted about multiple QAnon conspiracy theories online, livestreamed her drive from Illinois to New York on Facebook. A post on her Facebook page read: “Hillary Clinton and her assistant, Joe Biden and Tony Podesta need to be taken out in the name of Babylon! I can’t be set free without them gone,” the Rock River Times, an independent Illinois newspaper, reported.

    Prim, 37, said she was driving to the USNS Comfort, another hospital ship docked in New York because of coronavirus, but ended up arrested outside a historical aircraft carrier, the Intrepid, the New York Post reported. Police said they found multiple knives in her vehicle. “I was watching the press conferences with Donald Trump on TV. I felt like he was talking to me,” Prim reportedly said. “I felt like I was supposed to come to Comfort and get some help because I felt like I was the coronavirus.”

    11 June 2020: A Boston man leads police on a 20-mile car chase while livestreaming himself talking about QAnon.

    “Donald Trump, I need a miracle or something,” Alpalus Slyman said during his 11 June car chase across Massachusetts and New Hampshire, in remarks captured on a livestream, the Daily Beast reported. “QAnon, help me. QAnon, help me!”

    Off their meds, definitely off their meds.

    ReplyReply
    4
  7. OzarkHillbilly says:

    The Lincoln Project@ProjectLincoln
    Good dog.

    That is one intelligent animal, couldn’t have said it better myself.

    ReplyReply
    4
  8. OzarkHillbilly says:

    This is brutal: How Trade Policy Failed U.S. Workers— and How to Fix It

    Key Findings

    Trump’s trade policies have hurt U.S. workers — especially in the Rust Belt states where he vowed to “bring back” jobs.
    In Michigan, investments by auto firms have declined by 29 percent under Trump. At least three major auto plants have closed.
    Even before the pandemic, total employment growth in Michigan was by far the lowest in a decade. The state’s farmers have also lost out, requiring a series of expensive, taxpayer-funded bailouts.
    In Ohio, annual job growth plummeted from 36,200 in 2016 to just 3,700 in 2019. Average weekly earnings for Ohio manufacturing workers also declined during this period.
    By a nearly 9 to 1 margin, Ohio manufacturers reported being negatively impacted by Trump’s trade tariffs in 2019.
    Despite Trump’s China-bashing, U.S. firms invested $14 billion in China in 2019 — more than the year Trump was elected.
    There has been a larger trade deficit each year of Trump’s presidency than there was when he took office.
    Trump’s tax and trade policies are making the problem worse. In fact, his own administration expects the economic impact of NAFTA 2.0 to be negative.

    ReplyReply
  9. Sleeping Dog says:

    @Michael Reynolds.

    Trump’s considering taking your advice.

    If he loses election, Trump muses: ‘Maybe I’ll have to leave the country’

    ReplyReply
    5
  10. sam says:
  11. Jen says:

    @Sleeping Dog: That’s called evading the authorities…where’s Michael’s list of possible countries without extradition treaties with the US?

    ReplyReply
    2
  12. Bill says:

    @Jen:

    That’s called evading the authorities…where’s Michael’s list of possible countries without extradition treaties with the US?

    You’re forgetting three requirements-

    1- There has to be a golf course available to play 365 days a year

    2- It must have satellite television

    3- It must have a McDonalds

    ReplyReply
    6
  13. Sleeping Dog says:

    @Jen:

    In your mind’s eye, just play out the image of that. Trump flees, he’s indicted at both the Fed and state level for multiple crimes starting with tax fraud. He holes up somewhere. Jeffrey Epstein’s island (he’ll be disappointed that the teen aged girls are gone), maybe Elba?

    He’s extradited, refuses to return to the US and surrender. Local authorities arrest him, in front of TV cameras and turn him over to the FBI. He’s returned to the US in cuffs and subject to an extended perp walk.

    Oh the fantasy is so rich that if it were to come true, the last 4 years would have almost been worth it.

    ReplyReply
    11
  14. CSK says:

    @Bill:
    Saudi Arabia would be perfect for him:
    1. They have plenty of McDonald’s.
    2. Ditto golf courses.
    3. Ditto t.v.

    And…

    4. Mohammed bin Salman.

    ReplyReply
    4
  15. OzarkHillbilly says:

    from The Challenger disaster: we can’t say we weren’t warned about American hubris

    What really busts this particular when-America-was-great myth, however, is the programme-makers’ forensic retelling of the missteps that lead to the explosion – oversights and incompetence created amid a culture of arrogance, at an agency that believed itself infallible. While the public narrative around the shuttle programme was that it marked the beginning of routine space travel, the truth was that the technology was still experimental. Alarmed by the discrepancy, one of the pilots on Challenger felt duty bound to warn McAuliffe that, while Nasa peddled the line that riding Challenger was practically akin to commercial air travel, in fact every launch was a test flight, and as such, extremely perilous. Meanwhile, the engineers in charge of the rocket boosters raised multiple red flags about compromised systems, and were ignored.

    Determined to stick to its schedule and justify the billions poured into it by Congress, Nasa ignored and overruled the warnings. According to the documentary, when a senior engineer expressed doubt that the boosters were safe, he was told by his superior, “It’s time to take off your engineering hat and put on your management hat.” More than 30 years later, a former head of Nasa still insists he made the right call to green-light the launch, based on the data available to him at the time. People died, yes. But, he suggests, that is the price one pays for progress.

    ReplyReply
    4
  16. CSK says:

    @OzarkHillbilly:
    I always felt that NASA was so eager to get its “teacher in space” program off the ground (so to speak) that they ignored all the warnings. Result: We lost a group of brilliant people in a publicity stunt.

    ReplyReply
    7
  17. OzarkHillbilly says:

    Talk about a hostile work environment: Italian woman tells how colleague spiked coffee to ‘eliminate’ her from job

    Bordon was taken to hospital where she was tested for a suspected stroke. She had the same reaction after drinking several more cappuccinos bought by Cerrato, and on one occasion crashed her car into a wall.

    It was not until Christmas of that year that Bordon became suspicious. “She had taken a few days off and during that time I was fine,” Bordon said. “I thought there might be a link between the coffee and the [health] crises. A neurologist advised me not to drink it for a month, and that’s what I did.”

    A few months later, she accepted another cappuccino from Cerrato, but only drank half of it.

    “I put the other half in a test tube and tests revealed that it contained 10 times the amount of tranquilliser that is usually advised,” she said.

    Cerrato was then caught red-handed. “With the police involved, we managed to stop her as she was putting the medicine into my cup.”

    ReplyReply
    3
  18. Just nutha ignint cracker says:

    @OzarkHillbilly: I don’t know why or how, but for some reason, the passage from, I believe, the book of Acts has been transmogrified from

    We ought to obey God rather than man

    to

    No gummint gonna tell ME what to do.

    Frankly, I’m just gobsmacked.

    ReplyReply
    1
  19. Jim Brown 32 says:

    @CSK: No go–Saudi would not be willing to risk U.S protection against Iran for Donald Trump. They’ll slam the door in his face–

    ReplyReply
    2
  20. Sleeping Dog says:

    The Conservative Push for a Social Media “Fairness Doctrine” is Pure Fantasy

    35 or so years ago, conservatives advocated for the elimination of the fairness doctrine and it was eliminated. This, of course, is a who’s ox is being gored question, with conservatives upset that private companies are free to moderate content on their private platforms, as they see fit. The answer is more government.

    For you youngn’s for whom the Fairness Doctrine is unknown or a vague childhood memory, it only applied to operators using Federally licensed broadcast stations, radio and over the air TV. Broadly it stated that if a radio or TV station advocated for something, it needed to provide equal time for opposing views. Basically, if a TV station in Palookaville put a Paul Harvey editorial on the air, petitioning the Navy to sink the vessels of the boat people leaving Viet Nam (which he did), the station would need to allow an advocate petitioning the Navy to pick them up and transport them to the US.

    Generally opponents and they weren’t all conservatives opposed the FD on free speech grounds and a change in the communication environment with the arrival of cable. Some liberals are wistful for the return of the FD, though it wouldn’t effect Fox News, but could put a crimp in Sinclair and Rushbo. It is ironic that these big government, anti free speech, authoritarian conservatives are looking to force forums to continue to lie.

    ReplyReply
    5
  21. Jim Brown 32 says:

    @OzarkHillbilly: Gawd Damn that’s cold blooded!

    ReplyReply
  22. Just nutha ignint cracker says:

    @Jen: Don’t worry. Bill Barr can tell Trump where to escape expatriate to. We don’t need to provide the list for him. 😉

    ReplyReply
    3
  23. CSK says:

    @Jim Brown 32:
    I defer to your expertise. Maybe it’ll have to be Morocco. Or Russia.

    ReplyReply
    3
  24. Michael Reynolds says:

    @Sleeping Dog:
    If Trump is going to be safe from the feds he needs to resign and get Pence to pardon him. Pence will do it, the man surrendered his spine four years ago. Or he can try to pardon himself, but that’s risky, the Supremes could call that a foul.

    So it’s either A) pardon, resign and flee, or, B) resign, be pardoned and flee. His lawyers will tell him to go with B, it’s safer. Of course it’s even more humiliating, it would mean that at the end he has to beg Bootlick One to do the job.

    As to where he goes? It won’t be Saudi Arabia, he’d be. long-term embarrassment for MBS and the KSA needs good relations with the US. I still think Philippines. Same swampy weather as Palm Beach, lots of golf, lots of junk food, he owns a place there, and the US needs Duterte more than he needs us.

    IANAL so I don’t know whether a New York charge can get a guy extradited. It would have less to do with the law – Philippines is not exactly New Zealand – than with how much Duterte can squeeze out of Trump. If there’s juice left in that old orange peel, Duterte will squeeze.

    Very few countries will want to support a deposed Trump over a current US president. Taiwan? Nope. South Korea? Unh unh. Europe is obviously out. Maybe one of the smaller sheikhdoms can bite the bullet so long as the KSA stays tight with Biden’s administration.

    And of course there’s Russia, but that would be Putin doubling down on an asset that will have lost 90% of its usefulness. Putin’s a lousy strategist though, so he might go for the fun of being able to parade his butt boy around.

    Oh, a thought: Argentina? They have practice sheltering runaway Nazis.

    ReplyReply
    6
  25. Bill says:

    @CSK:

    Or Russia.

    You can’t play golf year round in Russia.

    ReplyReply
    1
  26. Just nutha ignint cracker says:

    @CSK: I recall vaguely hearing about a former Gemini astronaut talking about going up in space as sitting on top of a giant blasting cap where all of the components had been built by the lowest bidder. It’s sad that 20 or so years later things hadn’t changed all that much.

    ReplyReply
    3
  27. Just nutha ignint cracker says:

    @Jim Brown 32: We can certainly hope so.
    @Sleeping Dog: I was thinking more along the lines of hallucinogen-induced delusion, but whatever.

    ReplyReply
    1
  28. CSK says:

    @Bill:
    Yeah, but you can in Morocco. And there is a good selection of McDonald’s.

    ReplyReply
    1
  29. CSK says:

    @Michael Reynolds:
    Well, Argentina would cater to Trump’s Evita fantasies, but I believe we have an extradition treaty with them.

    ReplyReply
    2
  30. Michael Reynolds says:

    @CSK:
    But does the treaty apply to state charges or just federal? I’ve never been clear on that.

    ReplyReply
  31. CSK says:

    @Michael Reynolds:
    My understanding is that it’s both. Murder, for example, can be a state crime and a federal crime. Ira Einhorn fled to France to escape murder charges in Pennsylvania. He was tried in absentia and convicted there, but the French authorities did not recognize trials in absentia. So Pennsylvania passed a law granting Einhorn an new trial, and the French allowed him to be returned to the U.S.

    ReplyReply
  32. Northerner says:

    @Bill:

    That is completely insane. Unfortunately, there are always a few completely insane people in the world.

    ReplyReply
  33. Sleeping Dog says:

    @Michael Reynolds:

    His ego won’t let him resign.

    He’s smarter than all his lawyers and won’t listen

    You forgot North Korea. He loves the leader, but golf is seasonal.

    Most likely Trump ends up barricading himself at Mar Lago doing his best Johnny Rocco imitation.

    ReplyReply
  34. Bill says:

    @OzarkHillbilly:

    @Bill: Gawd save me…

    I couldn’t pass on that Trump macho man headline. Honestly it was headline of the day material for not just Florida.

    BTW the one thing I left off the list of things to do while the wife is away for three days- Make lots of comments at OTB.

    ReplyReply
    3
  35. Jim Brown 32 says:

    @CSK: Should this scenario play out–and I don’t think it will because we’ve all learned via both the law and “norms” that POTUS is above the law– I’d wager money that he’d find a good retirement exile somewhere in South America. Great weather, golf, beautiful women–and governments who aren’t as dependent on the US for much of anything.

    ReplyReply
    1
  36. Kathy says:

    @CSK:

    4. Mohammed bin Salman.

    Really? Does he strike you as someone who’d deign to even spit on a has-been?

    ReplyReply
  37. CSK says:

    Really big news from QAnon:

    Today, at Trump’s Dallas rally, JFK Junior will return from the dead (or from wherever he’s been hiding for the past 21 years) to take his place as Donald Trump’s running mate, replacing Mike Pence!!!!!

    When this doesn’t happen, how will they explain it?

    ReplyReply
    2
  38. Teve says:

    @CSK: somebody joked that tomorrow begins the “see ‘Mike Pence’? That’s not really Pence.” phase. 😀

    ReplyReply
    1
  39. CSK says:

    @Jim Brown 32:
    But wouldn’t he have to spend a lot of time fighting extradition?

    @Kathy:
    You misunderstand. Trump would think it a good idea.

    ReplyReply
    3
  40. MarkedMan says:

    @Michael Reynolds:

    If Trump is going to be safe from the feds he needs to resign and get Pence to pardon him.

    Even a month ago I would agree with you but I think this window has closed. If Trump resigned tommorrow Pence would have no chance of winning. And if Trump wins on Nov 4 he has no motivation to do it after the election. If he loses, he could at most make Pence president for less then 3 months. Why would Pence go along?

    ReplyReply
    1
  41. Kathy says:

    @Sleeping Dog:

    His ego won’t let him resign.

    He’s smarter than all his lawyers and won’t listen

    I agree. If he loses, he’ll insist he won the election until three days past his actual death.

    You forgot North Korea. He loves the leader, but golf is seasonal.

    Ah, but his one true love is there.

    ReplyReply
  42. Michael Reynolds says:

    @MarkedMan:

    Why would Pence go along?

    Oh, he’ll go along. If Trump has to flee the country Pence’s political future at the national level is already toast. At that point he either has to throw in with the rump of the Trumpists and make a living giving speeches to nuts, maybe getting his old radio show back, maybe even get back his old House seat – Indiana, after all.

    But, if he ‘betrays’ Trump he’s a non-person to all sides. He will be politically homeless. Pence is Trump’s poodle, he’ll roll over like a good boy when the time comes. If for no other reason than he’ll need Trump to pre-emptively pardon him.

    ReplyReply
    2
  43. Northerner says:

    @OzarkHillbilly:

    Determined to stick to its schedule and justify the billions poured into it by Congress, Nasa ignored and overruled the warnings. According to the documentary, when a senior engineer expressed doubt that the boosters were safe, he was told by his superior, “It’s time to take off your engineering hat and put on your management hat.”

    Presumably based on the reasoning that if engineering analysis said 2+2=4 and management analysis said 2+2=5, then management analysis should take precedence.

    More than 30 years later, a former head of Nasa still insists he made the right call to green-light the launch, based on the data available to him at the time. People died, yes. But, he suggests, that is the price one pays for progress.

    I’m sure there’s a good reason why it was worth risking seven highly trained astronauts and a very expensive space shuttle instead of postponing the launch a month or so. Probably related to something on the lines UFO’s invading the earth if it wasn’t attempted.

    Or possibly the assumption that just because engineers designed the space shuttle, it didn’t mean they had any special insight to potential problems, so there was no particular reason to listen to their warnings.

    ReplyReply
    1
  44. gVOR08 says:

    IIRC Pence is implicated in some of what’s been going on. Maybe it’ll come down to a deal. If Pence agrees to pardon Trump after a resignation, Trump will include Pence in his pardon of Flynn, his kids, Jared, Melania, and whoever. Whether the Supremes would go along with it depends on how much dirt Trump and Pence have on other prominent GOPs.

    ReplyReply
  45. MarkedMan says:

    @Michael Reynolds: I’ll take that bet.

    ReplyReply
    1
  46. grumpy realist says:

    I’m starting to think we should a) insist that anyone running for public office be able to pass the same sort of background check that is required for federal employees (including a full analysis of financial problems and potential corruption), and b) start having the death penalty for over-the-top abuse of public office and corruption. (The medieval world had “flaying alive” as its penalty for corrupt judges, which is why cautionary paintings showing application of the punishment were often hung up in law courts.)

    ReplyReply
    1
  47. Teve says:

    “An analysis of the Georgia primary found that the average wait time after 7 p.m. across Georgia was 51 minutes in polling places that were 90% or more nonwhite, but only 6 minutes in polling places that were 90% white.”

    linky

    ReplyReply
    4
  48. Mr. Prosser says:

    @Sleeping Dog: I would add one final touch, the arresting foreign authorities give hime a prison haircut.

    ReplyReply
    2
  49. Mister Bluster says:

    I was thinking of posting this on A Photo For Friday and tagging it “Catfight”.
    But that was yesterday…and yesterday’s gone. (apologies to Chad & Jeremy)

    WNBA superstar Sue Bird: ‘We are not cute White girls like soccer players’

    ReplyReply
  50. Jim Brown 32 says:

    @CSK: Not for anything classified as a “political crime’–which Trump would certainly play up that anything New York came up with was politically motivated. He would have a point–the States & Feds aren’t going after any other rich shithead’s for not paying taxes. I doubt he’s the only one playing $750 dollars.

    ReplyReply
    3
  51. Mister Bluster says:

    @Mister Bluster:..yesterday’s gone.

    So is the EDIT function even after multiple page reloads.

    I would gladly trade the RED ERROR and GREEN COMMENT POSTING graphics next Tuesday for a hamburger today. It would be too much to ask for an EDIT button.

    ReplyReply
    2
  52. Joe says:

    I think Iran needs to take Trump in. They still owe us for all that Shah shit.

    ReplyReply
    6
  53. SenyorDave says:

    @Michael Reynolds: Oh, a thought: Argentina? They have practice sheltering runaway Nazis.
    I don’t know, Nazis are one thing, but Trump?
    I think that may be a double down on Godwin’s Law.

    ReplyReply
    2
  54. Teve says:

    @Mister Bluster: that’s ironic, because I find Sue Bird to be cute.

    ReplyReply
    1
  55. CSK says:

    @Jim Brown 32:
    Sure, but the various charges of sexual assault might do it.
    And tax evasion–as opposed to tax avoidance, which is perfectly legal–isn’t a political crime.

    But of course he’ll try to argue that any charge brought against him for anything is politically motivated.

    ReplyReply
    4
  56. Teve says:

    @Mister Bluster: the site’s just weird. It won’t autofill my name and email address now until I start to type them, then when my email address gets selected it autofills my physical address in the ‘Website’ box that I then have to delete. As I type this, I don’t have formatting buttons, but if I refreshed they’d be there.

    ReplyReply
    1
  57. Michael Reynolds says:

    @Jim Brown 32:
    No elected official in New York state is going to suffer for going after Trump to the full extent of the law.

    Don’t forget, NY has the Deutschebank stuff. There would be a lot of discovery which puts Trump’s people in a heavy position – if he’s pardoned them they can testify without jeopardy. If they refuse, they can be tossed in jail for contempt. If he doesn’t pardon them they will be forced to testify to avoid being charged as accomplices.

    Hence the need for Trump to flee. And he may need to take Ivanka, Kushner, Don Jr. and Eric with him. He’ll have pardoned all of them, presumably, but: NY.

    @MarkedMan:
    I’m in for a buck.

    ReplyReply
    1
  58. Michael Reynolds says:

    And let’s not forget state level rape charges and dozens of civil suits that will drain his dwindling bank account. I’m fine with an exiled, impoverished Trump living out his days in a Manila condo living off his pension of $219,200.

    ReplyReply
    1
  59. Liberal Capitalist says:

    So, I read the story of Trump jetting in on AF1, having a rally, and jetting off to another to do it again in another city the same day.

    Just one question:

    Does his campain have to pay us (the government) back for the private use of publicly owned transportation? Isn’t it provided to him so that he can do his job (and not the use to try to keep said job)?

    If I rent a car, with my company credit card, and use it for personal reasons, not only would I need to pay it back, but it would likely be grounds for my dismissal.

    So… what’s up with that?

    ReplyReply
    1
  60. DrDaveT says:

    @Teve:

    somebody joked that tomorrow begins the “see ‘Mike Pence’? That’s not really Pence.” phase.

    Elvis would be just about the right age to be a candidate in this election…

    ReplyReply
  61. CSK says:

    @Michael Reynolds:
    Oh, he’d love to take Ivanka with him. Perhaps Jared if Ivanka insisted. Eric and Don Junior? The hell with them.

    ReplyReply
    1
  62. Mister Bluster says:

    @Teve:..autofill!..
    There was a time when the Name* and Email* fields of the OTB comment area would self populate with my information but it was years ago. Stopped after a site upgrade way back when.

    Well God Bless the Child, the edit function reappears. Got nothing to add but a crust of bread.

    ReplyReply
    1
  63. Gustopher says:

    My very Trumpy brother does not believe the Hunter Biden email story because “no one downloads email anymore”

    Do I:

    A) explain to him that some people work on airplanes, and that the rest of the story is what doesn’t make sense
    B) leave well enough alone
    C) claim that the laptop also contains receipts for pizza with extra cheese from Comet Pizza every time Hunter was in Washington, DC.

    I’m going with C right now…

    ReplyReply
    2
  64. MarkedMan says:

    @Michael Reynolds: I’m in for a buck too, or a (virtual) drink. This would be my choice.

    ReplyReply
    2
  65. Jax says:

    @Liberal Capitalist: Especially given how much time he spent complaining on Twitter about Obama using AF1 for campaigning.

    ReplyReply
    1
  66. Bill says:

    @CSK:

    Oh, he’d love to take Ivanka with him. Perhaps Jared if Ivanka insisted. Eric and Don Junior?

    Don Jr was doing a rally in West Palm Beach last night. What was I doing that kept me from attending?

    I watched the full length version of this movie for the first time ever. 2.5 hour in front of the television before going to sleep and with a pussycat wedged between my legs most of that time. The cat did not give me her permission to attend the rally.

    ReplyReply
    1
  67. SC_Birdflyte says:

    @CSK: IIRC, Reagan’s State of the Union address was scheduled for a time when Challenger was scheduled to be in orbit. Which is one factor that led NASA to push ahead with the launch.

    ReplyReply
    1
  68. CSK says:

    @Bill:
    Well, that certainly seem like a timely choice of entertainment. Was it any good?

    ReplyReply
  69. Jen says:

    @Liberal Capitalist: As always, a practice that he complained CONSTANTLY about with Obama is in the IOKIYAR category:

    https://thehill.com/homenews/administration/445878-trump-used-air-force-one-for-political-trips-after-criticizing-obama

    Bottom line, the taxpayers are supposed to be reimbursed for political use of the plane, usually through money raised by parties/campaign committees. Trump is reimbursing at a much lower rate. Surprise, surprise.

    ReplyReply
    2
  70. MarkedMan says:

    On another thread, James has a bunch of maps. I find the last one, which shows the states that are firmly in either the Democratic or Republican camps, to be both edifying and profoundly sad. When I look at those red states, I see almost an exact match for those states that are doing the worst in coronavirus deaths and hospitalizations. In other words, states whose government has failed to adequately perform one of the most fundamental tasks: public health and safety. It’s no surprise, as these are states where the voting population can be riled to vote for a loudmouth politician if they just shout loudly about queers using the “wrong” bathroom, or someone threatening to take down the statue the founder of the Ku Klux Klan, or keeping a wife-beater from owning an assault weapon, but seem indifferent to the quality of their hospitals, the safety of their drinking water, keeping workers from being injured, the infant mortality rate and, well, I could go on and on. That map could represent a best/worst map for almost every measure of a civilized society or economic success (yes, almost every single red state takes more from the federal coffers than they put in, primarily because their workers makes so little compared to the same jobs in a blue state.)

    How any thinking person could look at that map and think the modern Republican Party had anything to offer their state or the country as a whole is beyond me.

    ReplyReply
  71. Bill says:

    @CSK:

    Well, that certainly seem like a timely choice of entertainment. Was it any good?

    This disaster movie is not a disaster but its still not very good. The short version, is a disaster, because the longer version is so chopped up that the 1 h 47 m version is almost incoherent.

    Dialogue is poor, the film doesn’t have a main character, the plot is full of too many tropes aka a nutty warmongering general played by Harry Silva. An earthquake that is caused by oil drilling and this quake causes nuclear weapons that haven’t been serviced in over a year to launch. Somebody then walks back to Tierra del Fuego from Wash DC even though a nuclear apocalypse has happened.

    There are one or two touching scenes. The cast does a decent job but Chuck ‘The Rifleman’ Connors is miscast as a British submarine captain. Which reminds me, how did his crew survive the virus for so long? Just like I believe nuclear missiles need regular servicing, I don’t think the submarine can stay submerged as long as the one in the movie did.

    ReplyReply
  72. Bill says:

    @CSK: I didn’t even mention the virus the killed off the human race and animal life. The only survivors in Antarctica are alive because MM88 doesn’t breed in temperatures below -10 centigrade. MM88 is a mimic, it takes common ailments into deadly disease. An American bioweapon, stolen and taken back to the east, then a botched attempt at recovering MM88 that causes ‘The Italian Flu’. Warning to people with deadly bioweapons- Don’t try flying over the alps in a non-jet aircraft and in the middle of a snowstorm.

    ReplyReply
  73. Teve says:

    @MarkedMan:

    How any thinking person could look at that map and think the modern Republican Party had anything to offer their state or the country as a whole is beyond me.

    I have conservative relatives who vote entirely on one issue. Whoever promises to cut their taxes the most, gets their vote. They’re not intellectually capable of doing a cost/benefit analysis. All they look at is the cost.

    ReplyReply
    2
  74. dazedandconfused says:

    @OzarkHillbilly:

    “It’s time to take off your engineering hat and put on your management hat.”

    Precisely Boeing’s 737MAX mistake.

    ReplyReply
    5
  75. Just nutha ignint cracker says:

    @Kathy:

    Ah, but his one true love is there.

    Wait. NK isn’t the only place that has mirrors. We are talking about “his one true love” after all. He can even be with his one true love at Club Fed. Granted, the mirrors there are only polished aluminum or stainless steel, but still…

    ReplyReply
    2
  76. Just nutha ignint cracker says:

    @gVOR08: The Supremes will go along. First, they’ll be a wholly-0wned subsidiary of the GOP in about another week, and second, because they’ll take the “high road” of avoiding a “Constitutional crisis.” Dr. Joyner will be relieved and say that while he regrets that things came to this, they made the right call.

    ReplyReply
    3
  77. Just nutha ignint cracker says:

    @Mister Bluster: I didn’t see the need for the edit, tho I am arriving back to the party late. Both samples have “yesterday’s gone” and yesterday [is] ‘s gone.

    ReplyReply
    1
  78. Just nutha ignint cracker says:

    @Liberal Capitalist: IOKIYAR?

    ReplyReply
    1
  79. JohnSF says:

    @Michael Reynolds:
    Russia? Not if Donald is sane.
    As I’ve said before:
    1) Putin doesn’t strike me as mister sentimental; he might want to tease the US, but the US in seriously bad mood, looking at the Russian elites global finances?
    2) If Trump ends up losing the bratva a lot of money, they are not known to be forgiving souls. His physical safety will depend on Putin’s “roof”. Risky.

    For that matter if the USA really wanted to reach out and touch Trump, it would be a brave ruler who’d stand in their way.
    Duterte or Bolsonaro might think of the pose value.
    But, like Putin, they may be wannabe absolutists, but they aren’t god-emperors. They have their own key constituencies to consider. Who would much dislike the heat an enraged US could apply to their offshore finances, cozy boltholes on the Riviera or in London etc.

    Not to mention the “ultima ratio regum”: “hand him over, or you get the Seventh Fleet and an MEF up the wazoo.”

    Maybe Beijing would offer cover? But would they run such a risk?
    Rule #1 of global survival: Do not p!ss off a Power without damn good reason.

    ReplyReply
  80. Just nutha ignint cracker says:

    @Mister Bluster: The autofills still work for me. On the other hand, I’m only using an old clapped out PC clone with MS Edge and not a state-of-the-art Ipad or phone running Ubantu Ver 77.89767.745665.43490.

    ReplyReply
    1
  81. Just nutha ignint cracker says:

    @MarkedMan: Low taxes. I can afford to provide myself with all the other things. You not having them is your problem, not mine.

    Easy peasy lemon sqeezey.

    ReplyReply
    1
  82. Just nutha ignint cracker says:

    @Just nutha ignint cracker: By the way. In my past life, I WAS the guy I just described above.

    ReplyReply
    1
  83. Sleeping Dog says:

    @Teve:

    autofill my name and email address now until I start to type them, then when my email address gets selected it autofills my physical address in the ‘Website’ box that I then have to delete.

    Same here, though the physical address in the website box is a new wrinkle

    ReplyReply
  84. Sleeping Dog says:

    @Liberal Capitalist:

    Yes the campaign needs to reimburse the government. I don’t know how they arrive at a number, but it’s not the actual cost. Some costs, like secret service are sunk and there is no payback.

    ReplyReply
  85. Teve says:

    JmartNYT

    It is hard to think of a more powerful, viral in-kind contribution that Rudy could have given Biden.

    Can’t overstate how turned off casual voters were by Trump humiliating Biden about his son in first debate. Have heard it repeatedly from non political types.

    ReplyReply
  86. Teve says:

    Acyn

    The President mentions the Governor of Michigan, the crowd chants lock her up, and the President says lock them all up

    @GovWhitmer

    This is exactly the rhetoric that has put me, my family, and other government officials’ lives in danger while we try to save the lives of our fellow Americans. It needs to stop.

    ReplyReply
    1
  87. Gustopher says:

    @JohnSF:

    Putin doesn’t strike me as mister sentimental; he might want to tease the US, but the US in seriously bad mood, looking at the Russian elites global finances?

    Not that I think it will come to Trump hiding out in Russia, but… Trump doesn’t shut up, and he been a posee to a shitload of very highly classified material. So, it would be an intelligence bonanza.

    It would also make the US look foolish, corrupt and powerless. We aren’t going to go to war over getting him back, so that along may be worth the cost.

    ReplyReply
  88. CSK says:

    Well, QAnon was wrong again. Not only did Trump not rally in Dallas today, JFK Jr. didn’t show up to serve as his running mate.

    How do QAnon adherents explain these anomalies?

    ReplyReply
    4
  89. Michael Reynolds says:

    @MarkedMan:
    I like the big, dark ales and stouts. Porter, too. Not to sound like too much of an entitled asshole (although that ship may have sailed) but the GOAT for us was a black, black stout in a bar in Reykjavik. The bastards don’t export it.

    ReplyReply
  90. Michael Reynolds says:

    @CSK:
    As you know, the standard of proof in Q-anon is very high. They’ll accept nothing as fact until it can be shown to make absolutely no sense at all. They’re looking for 100% pure stupid.

    ReplyReply
    6
  91. Gustopher says:

    @CSK: I believe Q discovered that Lee Harvey Oswald Jr was going to be in Dallas today, so they had to postpone it.

    ReplyReply
    1
  92. Teve says:

    @TheHyyyype

    truck commercial: handsome young farmer drives his chevy silverado across his stunning 100 acres, pausing to pick up firewood and inspect his crops

    truck reality: 6 swamp monsters in camo gear drive their f350 down a city street waving shotguns and conferederate flags

    ReplyReply
    2
  93. JohnSF says:

    @Gustopher:
    Sometimes in international politics you just need to worry the other party just enough.
    “Ho ho! You’re not going to war over (x)…”
    Mobilises fleet.
    Forward deploys forces.
    Calls up reserves.
    Moves alert level up to…
    “No, you wouldn’t? Surely you wouldn’t?”
    *stares*
    “OK, let’s be reasonable here…”

    The USA has usually been a rather tolerant hegemon. Look to the British Empire for lessons on how to be extremely intolerant.

    E.G.: Threatening (privately) to let FinCen loose on every single siloviki dealing from 1989 to now, to full court press London and Paris on EWO’ing their Mayfair mansions, Riviera yachts, the Home Counties public schools their kids attend…
    etc etc

    The Russians would hand over (or “accident”) anyone at that level of pressure.

    ReplyReply
  94. MarkedMan says:

    @Michael Reynolds: This era is to beer what the Renaissance was to painting…

    ReplyReply
    1
  95. Just nutha ignint cracker says:

    @Sleeping Dog: I can’t imagine why how they calculate the cost would matter. Trump’s never gonna pay it and the GSA will have to get in line behind the IRS and probably every real estate lien holder in the world* to get paid.

    * Except for me. I have a non-performing mortgage in my portfolio, but it’s not from a Trump property.

    ReplyReply
  96. JohnSF says:

    Guinness West Indian Porter is pretty good.
    (I intend to use it making a beef and ale stew tomorrow. Oops, today. LOL.)
    8 Sail Baltic Porter is better.
    But a bit pricey for cooking use, from my POV.

    ReplyReply
  97. JohnSF says:

    @JohnSF:
    What is it with the wretched edit function????
    Use half the bottle for the stew.
    Drink other half while cooking.
    🙂

    Oh, and now here is the edit function, just to rub it in with extra mockery.
    This really is very silly.

    ReplyReply
    1
  98. Just nutha ignint cracker says:

    @Teve: The Silverado that the Chevy dealer in my town has on his lot has a sticker price of ~$75K. We don’t have farmers here with that kind of money (or acreage for that matter). Lot of cosplayers bring their guns to Gator–around the corner from my apartment–for gunsmithing services and such. Those guys do big trucks quite a bit.

    ReplyReply
    1
  99. JohnSF says:

    @Just nutha ignint cracker:
    $75k! Yeeks! That’d be £58 grand!
    Unless you can write it off against tax that’s crazy money!
    If I wanted a pickup (and a lot of farmers and contractors round here have them, or else the good old WMWV) a year or two old second hand Ford Ranger or Mitsubishi L200 will come in at about £20k.

    ReplyReply
  100. DrDaveT says:

    @Teve:

    I have conservative relatives who vote entirely on one issue. Whoever promises to cut their taxes the most, gets their vote. They’re not intellectually capable of doing a cost/benefit analysis. All they look at is the cost.

    I’ve come to the conclusion that it isn’t that they can’t do cost/benefit analysis, it’s that they don’t think it applies to this question. Taxes evil; government bad. Asking questions like “are we all better off with higher taxes” is like asking “are we all better off if we sometimes eat babies?” — cost/benefit doesn’t apply in that world view.

    ReplyReply
    2
  101. DrDaveT says:

    @Michael Reynolds:

    I like the big, dark ales and stouts. Porter, too.

    Have you discovered Dragon’s Milk yet? (https://dragonsmilk.com/about-dragons-milk, since the bleeping buttons aren’t working again…) 11% ABV, which is a bug or a feature, depending on when I’m in the mood to drink it.

    ReplyReply
    1
  102. JohnSF says:

    @DrDaveT:
    Brasserie des Legendes Hercule Stout
    Good stuff.
    Oh dear. I haven’t been on an autumn beery holiday in Belgium for too damn long.

    ReplyReply
    1
  103. Teve says:

    @JohnSF: WMWV 93.5 in Conway New Hampshire is a weird thing to bring up.

    ReplyReply
  104. Teve says:

    @kirstiealley

    I’m voting for @realDonaldTrump because he’s NOT a politician. I voted for him 4 years ago for this reason and shall vote for him again for this reason. He gets things done quickly and he will turn the economy around quickly. There you have it folks there you have it

    ReplyReply
  105. Gustopher says:

    @Michael Reynolds: Stouts and Porters for the winter, Pilsners and Hefs in the summer, and in between beers in the in betweens.

    My rule is to look at the sky at 7pm, and base my beer color off how much light there is.

    Also, Cascade Brewing in Portland has a lovely apricot sour, which is my favorite beer. But you really have to get it from their taproom in Portland rather than bottled. The bottled is ok, but not like the fresh draft. Given my general feelings towards Portland (it’s not Portland’s fault, but every trip I take is mostly miserable, so I’m wary*) it’s a special treat.

    ——
    *: In theory, I like Portland. It’s like a less Tech-Bro version of Seattle. But… ever have a squirrel climb under the hood of your car and then have a horrible, smelly death when you turn the engine on? It could have happened anywhere, but it happened in Portland. I’ve only gotten a warfarin nosebleed once, but it was in Portland… (at least I was able to get my INR checked and it was fine, but ick) Etc.

    ReplyReply
    1
  106. JohnSF says:

    @Teve:
    Sorry, Britspeak.
    WMWV = “working mans white van”

    ReplyReply
  107. OzarkHillbilly says:

    @Gustopher: trump an “intelligence bonanza”? For some reason or other, I just don’t see it.

    ReplyReply
  108. grumpy realist says:

    @DrDaveT: These are the same people who whine like crazy when the local municipality says “sorry, we don’t have the money to keep the road in front of your place paved; it’ll have to go back to being a gravel road.”

    Never realising the link between taxes and public services.

    ReplyReply

Speak Your Mind

*