Tuesday’s Forum

James Joyner
About James Joyner
James Joyner is Professor and Department Head of Security Studies at Marine Corps University's Command and Staff College. He's a former Army officer and Desert Storm veteran. Views expressed here are his own. Follow James on Twitter @DrJJoyner.


  1. Bill Jempty says:

    Even though I have adblocker, advertisements pop up at the top of AOL email screen if just for a few seconds.

    The most recent of which was titled McAfee Renewal notice. McAfee Renewal is a well known scam but AOL is advertising it. They take the $$$ and run not giving a hoot if anyone gets fleeced. Is it any wonder I have adblocker?

    Some years ago, the NYT took an advertisement that caused web browsers to be hijacked. I got caught by that snake pit if briefly.


  2. DrDaveT says:

    Does anyone know the physical mechanism of how the secret ballot for Speaker is conducted? It occurred to me in a dream last night (seriously) that any half-decent amateur magician could probably make that ballot come out however they wanted it to…

  3. CSK says:

    More laughable bullshit from the greatest source: Trump says he’s going to release “numbers that will make your head spin next week” that will prove the 2020 election was stolen.

  4. James Joyner says:

    @Bill Jempty: AOL? Are you still on dial-up, too?

  5. Mikey says:

    @James Joyner: I have an AOL email address I’ve had since 1997 that I still use. It has well over a quarter-million emails in the inbox.

    I have FiOS, so no dial-up.

  6. Scott says:

    @James Joyner: My main email is a yahoo.com email. I’ve had it for about 23 years. Also have juno.com email which I used as a spam bucket. Also have a gmail account but don’t use that very often. There’s a lot of flotsam and jetsam hanging out there. Easy to create; harder to delete.

    Use google fiber. My 14.4K modem is long gone.

  7. Bob2@Youngstown says:

    @James Joyner:
    My principle email is AOL, started in late 1992.
    I’ve considered changing to other services, but I’d have to notify about 250+ companies and friends, change many userids that know me only by my email address.
    Keep putting it off because it doesn’t seem to be a good investment of time.
    So sort of backed myself into a corner.

  8. MarkedMan says:

    @James Joyner: @Scott: I have had a Yahoo email for more years than I can count (I got it before they allowed a dot as part of the name). I got a safer email account 15 years ago or so and spent several years trying to get it all switched over, to no avail. I couldn’t even get my family to switch over. I also tend to use the yahoo account for stuff I feel might result in spam. I would guess 20-30% of my mail still comes in on that account.

  9. Sleeping Dog says:

    I have a couple of yahoo email accounts that I’ve had for about 30 years. Those addresses are primarily used for login ID’s and when I need to provide an email addy to a business. Since one of those was once my primary email, every now and then I get an email from some old, old acquaintance wondering if I’m still alive. I’ve a gmail account which now is my primary, personal email. That I’ve had for ~20 years.

  10. gVOR10 says:

    This morning at LGM Erik Loomis, in his series “Erik Visits and American Grave”, visits the grave of Judith Shklar. She was a pioneering woman professor as a philosopher in the Government department at Harvard. The name rang a bell. I had to check to be sure. It was Shklar who came up with what struck me as a good definition of liberals, as people for whom “cruelty is the worst thing we do”. She contrasts this with sin, in that sin is an offense against God, while cruelty is an offense against ourselves and other people. It’s a good contrast as conservatives seem to have little trouble justifying cruelty to selected people.

    It seems apt now as an explanation of why some of us here at OTB have trouble with the weighing and balancing of cruelties in the Middle East.

  11. EddieInCA says:

    @James Joyner:

    I, too, still have an active AOL account. I’ve had it since 1994, and it’s the email I had when I worked and lived in London, Paris, Mexico, and Vancouver. To all those crew and friends, that’s the only email they have for me, so I’m keeping it until I die, or until it goes away, whichever comes first.

  12. Mikey says:

    Another one down: former Trump attorney Jenna Ellis pleads guilty in the Georgia election fraud case.


  13. Neil Hudelson says:


    That’s the third very prominent attorney to be given the One Count and Probation Special.

    The Kraken, the architect of the false electors scheme, and Guilianni’s right hand woman all facing the lightest of slaps on the wrist.

    Either Fani Willis is a fool (very doubtful) or these three are promising to be very helpful.

    (“Fani Willis is a Fool” has a late-2000s young-adult-novel-soon-to-be-a-netflix-special-then-an-off-broadway-play ring to it.)

  14. Kathy says:


    This might just tip Rudy over.

  15. Franklin says:

    I, too, have a 25+ year old Yahoo address. But amusingly, the email I use for commenting here is and has always been a fake AOL address 🙂

  16. Just nutha ignint cracker says:

    @gVOR10: Indeed! I was going to comment today anyway in response to someone’s comment yesterday that they thought I was a better person than to respond as I did. Sadly, I’m not, but then again, I’m inclined to believe that internet comment threads bring out the worst in all of us–the worst simply has less distance to walk in my case being significantly closer at hand. And yes, when I stare into the abyss, it doesn’t merely wink or smile and wave; it reaches out to give me a hug and welcome me in.

  17. Kathy says:


    How about a little 90s throwback. You get all aspirants to hold the gavel. Anyone who lets go is out. The last one holding it gets to be speaker.

    As a bonus, they also get to face a motion to vacate brought on by those who couldn’t hold on to the gavel long enough.

  18. charontwo says:


    Ellis agreed to a sentence of five years’ probation, 100 hours of community service, and to pay $5,000 in restitution. She has also written a letter of apology to the people of Georgia and has agreed to cooperate with prosecutors in the case.

    Her plea deal comes after prosecutors reached similar agreements last week with Trump-aligned lawyers Kenneth Chesebro and Sidney Powell. Scott Hall, a bail bondsman charged in the case along with Powell for breaching voting equipment at a Georgia county election office, has also pleaded guilty.

    “I now take responsibility before this court and apologize to the people of Georgia,” Ellis said in court. “I relied on others, including lawyers with many more years of experience than I, to provide me with true and reliable information. What I did not do, but should have done, your honor, was to make sure that the facts the other lawyers alleged to be true were, in fact, true.”

    Ellis’ plea also implicated former New York Mayor Rudy Giuliani in that she admitted to aiding and abetting his “false statements” at a December 2020 hearing before Georgia lawmakers in which they both pushed unfounded claims of voter fraud.

    She said that she was “assisting with the execution” of the hearing along with Giuliani and Trump campaign lawyer Ray Smith, another co-defendant in the case. Both Smith and Giuliani have pleaded not guilty.

    Ellis also agreed not to discuss the case on social media. In August, she posted a defiant message on X, formerly Twitter, saying: “I am resolved to trust the Lord and I will simply continue to honor, praise, and serve Him. I deeply appreciate all of my friends who have reached out offering encouragement and support.”

  19. Michael Reynolds says:

    @Neil Hudelson:

    (“Fani Willis is a Fool” has a late-2000s young-adult-novel-soon-to-be-a-netflix-special-then-an-off-broadway-play ring to it.)

    I’m already on chapter three.

  20. MarkedMan says:

    @Neil Hudelson: IANAL, but am wondering if they are being only moderately helpful but clearing them off the slate frees her and her staff to work on the main trial and makes it less complicated.

  21. MarkedMan says:

    @Kathy: I doubt Rudy could get away without jail time. Given his age and health he may calculate he spends more time as a free man by pleading innocent and hoping the appeals take years.

  22. Bill Jempty says:


    No I am not on AOL dialup. They are just my primary email account. The same one that you and I have exchanged dozens of emails through since 2005 or 2006.

  23. Kathy says:


    If Rudy’s thinking that, I’d advise him to pull a Costanza. See, thus far, every instinct he has about supporting and helping Benito has proven wrong. therefore the opposite must be right.

  24. MarkedMan says:

    @Just nutha ignint cracker:

    I’m inclined to believe that internet comment threads bring out the worst in all of us

    I agree, but also note that sometimes what is written on the inter-tubes comes across as much worse than intended. More than once I’ve asked what I thought was an innocuous question or made an inoffensive comment, one that would have engendered no offense in a face to face dialog, only to have someone take it as a dire insult.

    And, at least in my head, I’m pretty good at deleting the actually nasty comments. “So, did your mother have any children she didn’t regret?”, or “I fear there is a village somewhere looking for its idiot”.

  25. CSK says:

    Laura Loomer has called Jenna Ellis “a disloyal wench.”

  26. Kathy says:

    You know how during the pandemic there was much talk about strengthening the immune system?

    Fact is, most symptoms of most diseases are cause by the immune reaction to a pathogen, rather than by the pathogen itself. Note it’s most and not all. Some symptoms are caused by the pathogen.

    Consider a respiratory infection, like the trump virus. Common symptoms are fever and inflammation, both caused by the immune response. Inflammation brings fluid into the affected area, which carries more immune system cells and lets them travel faster. Fever can impede some pathogens, but also allows some immune cells to perform better.

    But as per Kathy’s First Law, there are downsides to everything. Too much fluid in the lungs makes it harder to breathe. Lower oxygen levels adversely affect the whole body, and can result in death. Fever can impede the correct function of other body cells (ever have fever hallucinations?). Less relevant these days, such symptoms make it harder to move about in search of food.

    Much of the immune response damages the body as well as the pathogen invaders.

    So a “stronger” immune system might just kill you faster 🙂

    Next up, some time in the near future, what if we had no immune system at all?

  27. Mister Bluster says:

    @Franklin:..But amusingly, the email I use for commenting here is and has always been a fake AOL address.

    Not surprising since your handle is the name of a defunct computer.

  28. Kathy says:

    Looks like the GQP conference has nominate Tom Emmer for several rounds of inconclusive voting resulting in something.

    I know little about this person, past the fact he did not vote to object to the EC count, and did vote for the Respect for Marriage Act. This makes him the least worst of all three candidates who’ve gotten to a vote.

  29. becca says:

    @Neil Hudelson: those who thought she cast too wide a net may be rethinking that opinion. Maybe this is unfolding as Ms Willis hoped. The defendant list is winnowing itself down, strengthening the prosecution.

  30. Joe says:

    @Kathy: It will be fascinating to see if the Stop the Steal crowd will vote for him on the floor, especially after Trump was dragging him..

  31. DK says:

    @Neil Hudelson:

    Either Fani Willis is a fool (very doubtful) or these three are promising to be very helpful.

    These kinds of plea deals often happen with written and video statements from the defendant(s). Very likely Atlanta prosecutors already have what they want, to be reinforced later by testimony.

    Drip, drip, drip.

  32. OzarkHillbilly says:

    @CSK: “Pot? Say hello to Kettle.” I guarantee that if LL ever gets indicted she will flip so fast it will make trump’s head spin.

  33. OzarkHillbilly says:

    @Mister Bluster: For some reason or other I named my computer Hal. I don’t know why it is always locking me out.

  34. Kathy says:

    Now it looks like Emmer doesn’t have the magic 217 votes.

    It seems ever more likely no one does. If so, then removing Kevin was the equivalent of throwing out your scuba tank 20 meters under water, when you don’t have another one handy. Good job.

    I’d advise the Democrats to vote “present” enough to get Emmer elected, as he seems someone not totally unacceptable*, but I won’t. He’ll either have to become unacceptable to keep the krazies at bay, or the krazies will motion to vacate him after he passes a spending bill or a CR with Democratic votes.

    *This seems to be the standard now for GQP speakers.

  35. gVOR10 says:

    @Mister Bluster:

    Not surprising since your handle is the name (Franklin) of a defunct computer.

    You’re reminding me of visiting a friend in Chicago in the early 80s. He had an apartment above an IBM store. The Itty Bitty Computer company. They sold kits and components for homebuilt computers. It’s been an amazing forty or so years. I still remember buying a printer that had more memory than my first personal computer, a Compaq.
    I’m typing this on an internet connected laptop that runs solid model CAD.

  36. Beth says:

    The one thing I like about the @AOL.com email addresses is that I know two things about the attorney using them, 1. they are probably older than dirt and would prefer to use a fax machine and 2. they are probably nice. This is opposed to attorneys who use @SBCGlobal.net addresses whom are older than dirt, love fax machines, hate puppies, hate being lawyers and are generally miserable people to deal with.

    Speaking of lawyers, this was posted at LGM (lol, the overlap). It was a very useful breakdown of the freaks and weirdo lawyers in Trumps orbit. Man that guy is screwed. As an aside, I wish I had the presence and speaking ability of this Legal Eagle guy. Smoooth. I’d love to listen to him read some really weird shit, I bet he could sell it. He just slips into the ads in the piece beautifully.


  37. steve says:

    I still have our AOL account. Wife doesnt want to change. I used my gmail address for most things at work (or my network email) unless I was sending out a group email. Then I deliberately used AOL because I knew it made a couple of people laugh.


  38. Kathy says:

    By the time AOL started distributing free coasters all over the world, I’d already been on the internet for a while. I recall we hired a local dial-up service, then changed it a few times. I don’t think we ever considered AOL.

    I do have a Yahoo! mail account. I access it when I get email telling me it’s being deleted for inactivity. One every few years. I’ve been using Gmail for years.

    I did use an email client back then, Eudora. I figure I stopped using it when I got accustomed to the idea of web-based mail. But then now I use a Gmail app on the Android phone. the more things change and all that.

  39. OzarkHillbilly says:

    trump says his old fixer Michael Cohen is a “proven liar.” That’s pretty damned rich considering it was trump paying him to lie.

  40. Mister Bluster says:

    That didn’t take long…

    Emmer drops speakership bid.

    Trump helps kill Emmer’s speaker bid

  41. CSK says:

    Trump says voting for globalist RINO Tom Emmer would be a tragic mistake.

  42. Mister Bluster says:

    Supreme Leader of the Republican Party Kim Jong Trump is running the
    United States Government even though he lost the last election.
    The cowardly Republicans in the United States House of Representatives are his lackeys.
    What alternatives do rational, patriotic United States Citizens have but to put up with this catastrophe?

  43. Kathy says:

    @Mister Bluster:

    Get five Republiqans to vote for Jeffries.

    That won’t happen in a million years and one day. So maybe get enough GQPs to vote “present”*, and let Jeffries take over with 212 votes.

    *Even better, vote “trump.”

  44. Just nutha ignint cracker says:

    @Mister Bluster:

    What alternatives do rational, patriotic United States Citizens have but to put up with this catastrophe?

    Buy popcorn and Fizzies online to turn it into a party?

  45. Matt says:

    @Beth: Legal Eagle is one of my favorite youtube channels. Bonus points his former video editor made a video where she calls him the best boss she’s ever had. I’ve only heard good stuff about the guy.

    LegalEagle’s response to the video?
    “I demand that you cease and desist…not working for me.”

    Dude has a great voice and dictation.

  46. gVOR10 says:

    ABC reports Mark Meadows has flipped for a grant of immunity. Apparently he’s admitted he made up large chunks of his book.

    This time is to Smith, not Willis, but still, dominoes is a fun game.

  47. Kathy says:


    Bah! Benito doesn’t even know him, and he was never his chief of staff.

  48. Kathy says:

    I really wasn’t going to bring this up, really, because I’ve no idea what happens if you pull the fire suppression system on a working engine*.

    But now the perpetrator is reported as having taken psychedelic mushrooms “recently.” I know little about them, but enough to know a few experiences “recently,” don’t cause this kind of behavior. It sounds more like a cop-out to me.

    We’ll likely never find out what really happened, as the press will lose interest by next week, and most aviation blogs won’t remember it by the time the NTSB publishes a report.

    *I suppose the fuel feed gets cut automatically. that by itself is not big deal. engines can be restarted in flight. But it also spreads some kind of fire retardant or extinguishing chemical inside the engine, and this might render it inoperable. A ruined engine being less of a problem than one on fire.

  49. DrDaveT says:


    For some reason or other I named my computer Hal.

    It might even have been the same reason I named my old Mac HAL, and modified its sound files so that it booted up with “Good morning, Dave. All of my circuits are in working order.” Oh, and the serious error beep (for a time) was “You don’t want to do that, Dave.” That got old fast…

  50. Jay L Gischer says:

    @Kathy: I read a decent explainer on this written by a pilot, not of the exact aircraft type, but a closely related one.

    You have the gist of it correct. He says restarting is possible, but not easy, especially not when all engines are off, and there’s someone troublesome in the cockpit.

    It’s a bit breathtaking for me, since I have flown that exact route multiple times, probably once or twice a year for the last 15 years.


  51. CSK says:


    I think maybe Meadows was the guy who brought Diet Cokes.

  52. DrDaveT says:

    @Mister Bluster:

    Supreme Leader of the Republican Party Kim Jong Trump is running the United States Government even though he lost the last election.

    Donald Trump = John of Gaunt? Eww. No.

  53. Kathy says:

    @Jay L Gischer:

    I’m reminded of the time a BA 747 had all 4 engines shut down by volcanic ash, and the crew managed to restart them all.

  54. dazedandconfused says:


    Lloyd Bridges: “He picked the wrong week to start taking mushrooms!”

    The fire shut0ff simply closes the fuel shut off valve and arms the fire extinguisher system, it does not cause the extinguishers to discharge, that takes a separate action on the pilots part. Most systems these days are Halon, so even if that fires off the engine is still good to go.

    It would’ve been taken a bit of time, perhaps as much as a minute to get through the air-start checklist (insert clip of the Wicked Witch saying “Air-starts must be handled delicately or you mess up the spell” here), but the pilots could most definitely have re-started the engines if he had been successful…IF they were high enough to get through the procedure at the time.

  55. Kathy says:


    The reports say the immunity deal only covers federal charges. My question is whether his testimony in Federal court can be used as evidence by Fani Willis in state court. I can’t see why not, as the sworn testimony would be in the public record.

    Therefore Meadows should also get a deal in Georgia.

    Maybe he’s waiting for his appeal to move the Georgia case to federal court.

  56. Kathy says:


    Halon makes perfect sense. And it should vent out.

    I think they were at cruising altitude, which means between 25 and 35 thousand feet for most commercial aircraft (I’m sure the blogs yesterday reported the exact flight level). That seems like enough altitude, even if the E jet is a horrendous glider.

  57. Mister Bluster says:

    Richard Roundtree 81

  58. wr says:

    @dazedandconfused: “It would’ve been taken a bit of time, perhaps as much as a minute to get through the air-start checklist”

    Although I am shy to insert myself into a conversation between all these aircraft experts — the extent of my knowledge is that the premade Old Fashioneds United serves in business class are really nice — I did read a quote from one of the pilots saying that while the mushroom maniac managed to pull the stop cords, there was enough residual fuel in the lines that they were able to restart before the engines ran out…

  59. dazedandconfused says:

    @wr: wr,

    Entirely plausible, there are a couple of liters between the shut off valve and the engine, but that could provide for 10-15 seconds or so, but I assumed the first order of business was getting Mushroom Boy secured. Likely the engines would be off before that condition could be obtained. Perhaps the guy reached over to hit the switches and immediately backed off.