Tuesday’s Forum

Steven L. Taylor
About Steven L. Taylor
Steven L. Taylor is a Professor of Political Science and a College of Arts and Sciences Dean. His main areas of expertise include parties, elections, and the institutional design of democracies. His most recent book is the co-authored A Different Democracy: American Government in a 31-Country Perspective. He earned his Ph.D. from the University of Texas and his BA from the University of California, Irvine. He has been blogging since 2003 (originally at the now defunct Poliblog). Follow Steven on Twitter


  1. de stijl says:

    Great Apes have new shit out.

    Edge Of The Western World

    Punk a normie can listen to and relate to. Not harsh or performatively abrasive.

    This is out one week ago. A bold person would try.

  2. de stijl says:

    Your kids will not truly respect you if you continue to only listen to mom or dad music. Only.

    Branch out. Not too briskly, you do not want to be in direct competition with your kiddos as to who is cooler. You will lose that battle and will alienate your spawn. Be open to what they like and listen with an open heart.

    Expose yourself to new music.

  3. OzarkHillbilly says:

    Headline on yesterdays STL Post Disgrace print edition: Dead Last in Vaccinations

    Geuss they decided to be not quite so hyperbolic online: CDC: Missouri ranks last in percentage of residents to receive first COVID-19 vaccine.

    I think I prefer the print headline.

  4. OzarkHillbilly says:

    Pet peeve: When an article states, “Mexican authorities are attempting to identify 19 charred corpses which were found near a town across the Rio Grande from Texas,” I envision a town which if not on the Rio Bravo, is at least within 20 miles or so of it. I don’t think of Camargo, which is a 160 mile drive from the border.

    I mean, technically it is in fact across the river from Texas, but then for that matter so is the rest of Mexico.

  5. wr says:

    @OzarkHillbilly: “I mean, technically it is in fact across the river from Texas, but then for that matter so is the rest of Mexico.”

    And Sao Paulo…

  6. Scott says:

    @OzarkHillbilly: Yeah, that’s like saying San Antonio is across the Rio Grande from Mexico (144 miles).

  7. CSK says:

    A gun store in Jefferson City, MO has announced that it won’t sell firearms and ammunition to Biden supporters. The right finds this uproariously funny.

  8. Joe says:

    @de stijl:
    I spent a lot of their younger years showing my kids a lot of different music. It has paid off handsomely in what they now show me (and my oldest is working on his PhD in composition).

  9. OzarkHillbilly says:

    @CSK: In other words, cancel culture.

    Also, why do I have this sudden itch to buy my ammo in Jeff City?

  10. OzarkHillbilly says:

    @OzarkHillbilly: My kingdom for an edit function:

    Also, why do I have this sudden itch to buy my ammo in Jeff City?

    Not that I will, the idea of making this asshole even a few pennies richer is abhorrent.

  11. CSK says:

    The place is called Trigger Firearms and Reloading.

  12. Franklin says:

    @de stijl: Good advice. I think I hopped too quickly onto things like Twenty One Pilots, and now my oldest tends to guard his playlists from me.

  13. Kathy says:

    I was hoping Buffalo would get a chance to at last win the Super Bowl.

    On the other side, I was upset that only one team could lose the Conference championship game, and more upset that it wasn’t Tampa Bay.

    It’s all up to Kansas City now.

  14. Kylopod says:

    @de stijl: As someone with no kids who’s barely even aware of music from the past 10 years, something I’ve wondered about for some time: what are the new types of music kids listen to to piss off their parents? I’m not talking about women performers who act in a sexually open and provocative manner, horrifying the elders–that still seems to be pretty universal generations-wise. In my generation it was Madonna. I heard about Ben Shapiro (who’s actually younger than me) blowing a gasket over Cardi B, so I suppose that sort of thing hasn’t gone away.

    I’m talking more about when the music itself. To begin with, are there any new types of music that older folks just don’t get? I used to think every generation had stuff like that. There was hip hop, there was grunge, there was punk, there was metal–even rock and roll in the ’50s invited some pretty virulent denunciations from grownups at the time. Elvis doing the Devil’s work. White kids dancing like (or with) the Negroes. Heck, go back far enough and people were losing their shit over jazz.

    And is it just me or is the music today just pretty damn tame? Who are the Ice-T’s and Marilyn Mansons of today? Is it that everyone’s become so jaded it’s hard to shock anyone anymore so the younger folks don’t bother?

  15. Michael Cain says:


    I was hoping Buffalo would get a chance to at last win the Super Bowl.

    The actor who played the Cigarette-Smoking Man is still alive and kicking.

  16. Mikey says:

    @Kathy: I was actually hoping for Brady vs. Mahomes. After watching Mahomes last Superbowl, I think this year could be very exciting, with the young superstar out for a repeat against the veteran champion trying to go out on top.

  17. Neil Hudelson says:

    EDM and Dubstep. It may not be provocative in the same sense Marilyn Manson or Alice Cooper was, but it’s definitely music oldsters by and large don’t understand. And perhaps just the fact that oldies don’t listen to it is enough–there’s no law that young music has to be deliberately provocative to the older generation.

  18. Kathy says:


    My problem with that setup is that the QB actually plays against the other team’s defense, not the other team’s QB.

  19. JohnSF says:

    Owner is triggered?

  20. OzarkHillbilly says:

    @Kathy: I was hoping Buffalo would get a chance to lose the Super Bowl yet again.


  21. OzarkHillbilly says:

    @Mikey: the veteran champion trying to go out on top.

    I don’t think Brady is capable of “going out on top”. His competitive drive is just too strong. As long as he thinks he can win (and winning a SB is proof) he’s going to keep going after championships. He sure as hell isn’t doing it for the money.

  22. Kathy says:


    I keep hoping for two teams that have never won a Super Bowl to play one. That’s less likely to happen as more teams win one.

    The ultimate “someone has to win” scenario is Buffalo vs Minnesota. Each has lost four times

  23. OzarkHillbilly says:

    @Kathy: I would love to see a Buffalo v Minneapolis super bowl.

    ETA, also want to add that Buffalo fans are the best.

  24. CSK says:


  25. Scott says:

    @Kylopod: As a parent with college age kids still around, I can say that I have no clue to what they listen to. Why? Because it is all through headphones or ear pods. I think it is harder today to monitor what kids watch and see. Just 10-15 years ago, at least there were still CDs around. We also had a no TV in the bedroom policy growing up. If I had younger kids today, I guess there would be a lot more interaction to find out what’s going on between the ears.

    Today, if I’m driving them somewhere I just invite them to plug into the car stereo system so I can find out what is current for them.

  26. Kathy says:


    As far as I know, neither a playoff game nor the Super Bowl can end in a tie. The teams would play additional overtime until one of them wins.

    Do you think in a Buffalo-Minnesota Super Bowl, the League would make an exception? 😉

  27. de stijl says:


    At least they did not say “the Rio Grande river”.

    What does “rio” mean? The big river river.

    Like Sierra Nevada mountains. Snowy mountains mountains.

    When I first moved to Iowa I would see newspaper stories about so-and-so was killed in a traffic accident. So-and-so was a resident of Nevada. Why include that bizarre tidbit?

    Turns out Nevada is the name of a town. Only it’s pronounced neh vay dah. I saw a road sign once driving around and it all made sense. Except for the pronunciation which I learned later.

    I own a t-shirt that proclaims I heart emoji Cumming.

    Also one with the Kum & Go corporate logo. Makes a great gift for out of state friends. Even though I am a more of a romancer myself, not a playa. I like how they leaned into it subtly by selling merch. Corpo PR is savvy. I’ve bought at least ten t-shirts off them thru the years.

  28. Kathy says:

    The current play by the GOP seems to be to claim that The Orange Ass cannot be tired in impeachment proceedings, because he’s left office. there is precedent of one cabinet secretary, William Belknap, tried this way after he resigned his office. Given the precedent-based judicial system in the US, this seems good enough.

    the backup play seems to be, “Oh, yeah? Well, we’ll impeach and try your former presidents!” Aside from being childish, they would need a good enough reason. I can’t think of anything Carter, Clinton, or Obama did to warrant impeachment (including what Clinton was actually impeached for), much less conviction. But it’s not as that would distract a majority Republican Congress from their labors, right? What would they do instead? Legislate?

    They could find something on LBJ concerning the Vietnam War and the Gulf of Tonkin incident. Johnson, however, is dead, and unlikely to present a defense. Perhaps for the GOP this would be a bonus.

    But then, Nixon also did truly terrible things regarding Vietnam, things that hurt many American citizens. And Bush the younger with Iraq, let’s not forget. Unlike Nixon and Johnson, the younger Bush still lives and can present a defense, likely a better one than Trump.

    I’ll got back to my comment yesterday: the best thing for trump is to get convicted and disqualified. That probably ends his legal troubles, though he’d still be open to many pending civil actions.

    Of course, the GOP has a choice: get rid of Trump for good, or pass judgment on the Orange Ass.

    The latter exposes many to primaries and the rage from the base, who are known to wield deadly weapons. No small matter, but the primaries are a year away. Lots of time between now and then to make up for it, or drive the Trumpy base off the party, if they dare. Senators not facing reelection until 2024 and 2026 ought not have anything to worry about.

    Lastly, three GOP Senators have announced they’ll retire by the end of their terms in 2022. Nothing prevents them from junking Trump.

  29. de stijl says:


    Ouch! That stung.

    I remember 1999 NFC championship game like it was yesterday.

  30. Kylopod says:


    the backup play seems to be, “Oh, yeah? Well, we’ll impeach and try your former presidents!”

    Dersh the other day argued that it’ll lead to private citizens who have never been president getting impeached.

  31. de stijl says:

    Speaking of nevada, we got about a foot of snow yesterday.

    I live directly on a major cross street and city snow plows pushed at least two feet of it directly onto my sidewalk. Thanks, pals! I have to shovel that.

  32. de stijl says:


    Dersh lost his damn head after 9/11. He is thisclose to L. Lin Wood now.

  33. Kylopod says:

    @Kathy: The main practical goal of impeaching a former president is to bar them from holding office in the future. Until now that has seemed hardly necessary since most ex-presidents in modern times don’t seek office again. The one-termers are branded as failures whom the party doesn’t look to again (Ford was a potential exception in 1980, so it isn’t totally unprecedented in the modern age), and the two-termers who are already barred from running for president again aren’t going to go back to being governors or Senators–generally they just retire from elective politics altogether. But in the 19th-century the impeached Andrew Johnson did win a Senate seat (though he died a few months into taking office), something he would have been barred from doing had he been convicted. In theory Nixon post-resignation could have run for something, but he never did, and I guess there was an assumption that he was too discredited to succeed if he ever tried.

  34. de stijl says:


    The name of that store triggers me. I need a state-funded safe place to recuperate.

    I love how RWs are trying bully-boy tactics into a culture where bullying is deemed toxic to anyone below ~35. I would say moronic, but the behavior is built in. Hawley is prime example.

  35. Mu Yixiao says:

    @de stijl:

    At least they did not say “the Rio Grande river”.

    I had to deal with that quite a bit when I was in China. My students would talk about the “Chang Jiang River”, “Xi Hu Lake”, or the “Huang Shan Mountain(s)”.

    The Chang Jiang* is the “Long River”, Xi Hu is “West Lake”. and Huang Shan is “Yellow Mountain”.

    * This is a regional name for a stretch of the Yangtze

  36. Kylopod says:

    @de stijl: The thing that gets me is Dersh knows damn well the argument he’s making is ridiculous. He isn’t stupid. He’s a lawyer and a social liberal who spent decades pointing out the absurdity of slippery-slope arguments against gay rights (“man-on-dog marriage”), and this is just a variant on that logic. It’s the last refuge of someone who doesn’t have an argument against something, so they argue against something else it’ll allegedly lead to.

  37. Gustopher says:

    @Neil Hudelson: I’d like to see them try to find something deliberately provocative and new, though. We’ve had enough iterations of that that the last few have felt kind of bland, so we need something new and bold so olds can complain that it isn’t even music.

    I’m thinking music that borrows the form of the Emergency Broadcasting Network. A single, loud, tone, with talking.

  38. de stijl says:


    In the tween years it’s likely to be loads of pop sugar from current or ex-Disney stars. See Olivia Rodrigo for the most up-to-date version. (I kinda dig driver’s license myself. It’s catchy.)

    As to later teen years, there is plenty to piss off mom n dad in electronica – witch-core comes to mind. In other genres not so much.

    You raise a good point. We’ve been treading the same ground of pop music lately.

    When I was a kid there was a stark divide between punk and Air Supply pop treacle and rockers. Then new wave. Then post-punk.

    Nowadays the innovations happen at the fringe edges of electronica and r&b and very rarely get incorporated into the mainstream.

    We’re in a rut, frankly. We need a new punk or a new gangsta rap to shake things up and shuffle the deck. We need a new new.

    (I like witch-core. But it ain’t ever going to break in.)

  39. de stijl says:


    Man lost his damn mind after 9/11.

    He became what I would call an American Likudnik.

    And he used to be pretty great. His life journey became sad. Decrescendo end to an interesting life.

  40. ImProPer says:

    @de stijl:

    Speaking an older, dude with no kids,
    there is so much talent and good music getting made. I’m sure some of the young artists wouldn’t be all that excited about having a fan as unhip as me, but I do enjoy alot of it.

  41. de stijl says:


    I thought about you yesterday while listening to Firestarter and then Smack My B*%/& Up.

    I cracks me up the way he pronounces it Fiestahtah. You English, with your non-rhotacized Rs.

  42. ImProPer says:


    “A gun store in Jefferson City, MO has announced that it won’t sell firearms and ammunition to Biden supporters. The right finds this uproariously funny.”

    I believe this is a thing with some right-winger small business owners.
    Coincidentally, railing against the Marxist democrats for their business killing policies, is also a thing with them.

  43. de stijl says:


    I enjoy it too.

    But we need a new new. Overdue for it.

  44. Just nutha ignint cracker says:

    @de stijl: No kids, no i-Tunes, no Spotify. Radio only when I’m in the car. But I do appreciate your comment. Wise.

  45. Barry says:

    @ImProPer: Isn’t it Unconstitutional for a business to refuse to serve people?

    I can’t keep up with what is good and right vs doubleplusungood.

  46. Just nutha ignint cracker says:

    @CSK: Wait til they require you to prove who you voted for.

  47. de stijl says:


    At least it wasn’t 30 Seconds To Mars.

  48. Just nutha ignint cracker says:

    @JohnSF: No, I think the store is named after Roy Roger’s horse.

  49. de stijl says:


    I was listening to You Get What You Give earlier today. Bucket hat dude was pretty wise. That’s a good song. So late 90s.

    Marilyn Manson was a joke. (Imo)

  50. CSK says:

    @Just nutha ignint cracker:
    Well, I assume if you’re a Biden supporter in desperate need of ammo, all you have to do is stick a MAGA cap on your head and you’re good to go.

  51. Mu Yixiao says:

    @de stijl:

    There’s a fair amount of stuff in the “alternative” circle of the Great Musical Venn Diagram that’s doing some really creative stuff. Multiple meters, syncopation, actual harmonies, and classical-style work on piano and guitar.

    Alice Merton: No Roots
    Lana Del Rey: Doin’ Time
    Black Pumas: All My Favorite Colors
    Vampire Weekend: Harmony Hall
    Beck: Uneventful Days
    Lorde: Royals
    Nathaniel Rateliff: SOB

  52. ImProPer says:

    @de stijl:

    “But we need a new new”


  53. ImProPer says:


    “I can’t keep up with what is good and right vs doubleplusungood.”

    Me neither, but I think that’s a good thing.
    Even when I was a kid, I noticed that it just does something bad to the minds of those that do, and I grew up in the drug world!

  54. OzarkHillbilly says:

    @Kathy: Do you think in a Buffalo-Minnesota Super Bowl, the League would make an exception?

    Nope, there has to be a champion.

    @de stijl: I always thought Kum & Go would be the perfect name for a drive thru whore house chain.

  55. Jen says:

    On music, I realized how out of the loop I’d become when I watched the video for David Grohl’s “Times like these” by Live Lounge Allstars and realized I didn’t recognize the majority of the singers.

    Jess Glynne is now in the regular rotation, along with some of the others.

  56. de stijl says:


    Art Brut had a song:

    I can’t stand the sound
    Of The Velvet Underground

    Their conclusion:

    It’s boring

    Art Brut is a band worth listening to imo.

  57. de stijl says:


    Y’all have Qwik Trips and Circle Ks and Super Americas. We have Kum & Go and it is awesome!

  58. de stijl says:


    Dave Grohl and Foo Fighters are a gift from god. Check out Nandi Bushell who is perhaps the coolest person on the planet. She’s 11.

  59. OzarkHillbilly says:

    @Barry: Isn’t it Unconstitutional for a business to refuse to serve people?

    Only for specific protected basis’s, such as race or sex or religion. Pretty sure being a “gawd damned commie libtard” doesn’t qualify.

  60. OzarkHillbilly says:

    @de stijl: We have “Kum and Go”s in SW MO and NW Arkansas. It’s a bit strange to me how certain brands will compete against some, but not others. Feels a little hinky to me.

  61. de stijl says:


    Red Hot Moon

    I feel Kaycee.

  62. Kathy says:


    Nope, there has to be a champion.

    New England.

    Wait. Does it have to be one of the teams that qualified?

  63. Mister Bluster says:

    @Kylopod:..Elvis doing the Devil’s work.

    I was eight years old when Elvis was on The Steve Allen Show in July of 1956. I don’t remember if our TV was tuned in for that broadcast but it could have been. We were Steve Allen fans on Sunday night. Ed Sullivan wasn’t on our schedule.
    Not long after that we were in the car and my mom literally snarled “I hate Elvis Presley!”
    I was stunned! “But mom, I thought Jesus wants us to love everybody!” I had heard her say that many times.
    Don’t recall her response.
    I didn’t realize it at the time but this may well have been the beginning of my questioning of religious faith.
    It wasn’t much later when she was diagnosed schizophrenic. It’s a good bet the manifestations of that vile disease on her tortured brain influenced her opinion of The King.
    Or maybe she just didn’t like the music.

  64. de stijl says:


    A buddy of mine had a kid do music composition at Drake and was worried about his future job prospects.

    Anyone that smart is golden and going places. No worries, my friend. Your son has this world nailed. Smart & curious is catnip to on the ball recruiters.

  65. de stijl says:

    @Mister Bluster:

    I love super early Elvis ’round a campfire in the boonies. Blue Moon.

  66. de stijl says:


    Now you’re just rubbing it in.

    One day. The Vikings will reach Valhalla one day. Before I die I would like to see that.

  67. Kurtz says:

    @de stijl:

    Probably new for you.

    I may have posted during the summer protests, but I don’t think I did.

    While I’m here, how about a classic?

  68. Just nutha ignint cracker says:


    I can’t think of anything Carter, Clinton, or Obama did to warrant impeachment (including what Clinton was actually impeached for), much less conviction.

    Since impeachment has become recognized as a purely political act now, I’m not sure warranting impeachment and conviction makes the cut as a disqualifier. I got no dog in this particular fight. Impeach and convict, don’t impeach and convict. Whatever. There are more important things to do–or not depending on one’s outlook. As the song goes, “you can justify it in the end.”

  69. de stijl says:


    I am way more worried about kids who just give in at age 18 and declare a Business Administration major right off the bat.

    MBAs are basically demon spawn incarnate. Wreck everything they touch. I met a few who were decent logisticians, but as a general rule they got their MBA later in life.

    Newly minted MBAs are most often dicks with zip experience. Bane of my professional experience. I had to manage around them.

  70. Just nutha ignint cracker says:

    @Mu Yixiao: In Daegu, there is a famous Buddhist monastery near the top of Paldong-san (“san” being Korean for mountain). For whatever reason there would be, freeway exit signs are either bi-lingual English and Korean or only in English (that’s the confusing one for me). You go to Paldong-san from an exit on a beltway road that rings the city and in one direction the sign reads:

    Paldong-san (mountain)

    while the other sign reads:

    Paldongsan Mountain

    Curious stuff, traffic signs and linguistics.

  71. de stijl says:


    First was not new, I lke it appreciate it. I like A$AP. But I gave it a harder listen cuz you steer true. Gentrification is a double-edged sword. I never heard the words true before.

    I clicked your second link and OH MA GAH I LUV WORLD DESTRUCTION SO FUCKING MUCH!!!! I want to have your love child.

    Best song evar. (That’s hyperbole, but just a touch so.) Lydon and Bambaataa. Kaboom. Kaboom. Kaboom.

    Come back atcha with PiL Rise. Off the album called Album, which is brilliant. Lydon is smart and a smart-ass.

  72. JohnSF says:

    Anyone want to check out some heavy Occitan folk rock ?
    Here you go: Cocanha

  73. DrDaveT says:


    Heck, go back far enough and people were losing their shit over jazz.

    Go back a few more decades, and they were losing their shit over Ragtime.

    Go back a couple of centuries, and (I kid you not) they were losing their shit over The Waltz, which involves lascivious close contact between partners and madcap whirling to deliberately induce dizziness.

  74. de stijl says:


    If you did not know, Bela Lugosi’s Dead (birth of Goth.

  75. Just nutha ignint cracker says:

    @Gustopher:”…we need something new and bold so olds can complain that it isn’t even music.”
    Once again, the French have already been there, done that. And in 1948, no less,

  76. de stijl says:


    Tango is the forbidden dance.

  77. Just nutha ignint cracker says:

    @de stijl: I like the academic term, which seems to fit for Dershowitz anyway.

    Spent volcano.

  78. Just nutha ignint cracker says:

    @CSK: Probably easier to get an NRA hat or maybe a Caterpillar or Cummins Diesel cap like truckers wear. I even had a few of those myself. Used to wear them to play slowpitch. Made the other players upset for some reason.

  79. Mu Yixiao says:

    @de stijl:

    So is Abe Vigoda.

    (check out the link at the bottom)

  80. de stijl says:


    That’s a working man’s song and prideful. That’s cool.

    I am not of that area. Is there a clear distinction between Occitania (Aquitaine) and Basque? They bumped up against each other for centuries.

    That song reminds me in a way of The Hu (h/t to Michael Reynolds): ethnic pride music.

    And Fisherman’s Blues.

  81. CSK says:

    @Just nutha ignint cracker:
    How about a John Deere hat?

  82. Just nutha ignint cracker says:

    @de stijl: My dad always told me that if I majored in business admin, he’d stop helping pay for college. He’d seen too many bus admin majors hired as unskilled labor in his industry to be able to believe that it was a “real” major.

    Did I mention that I started college in September of 1970? Business has been a marginal choice my whole life. And yet, some people still do well by majoring in it. Hmmmm…

  83. Kathy says:

    @de stijl:

    I’m all for the Vikings winning a Super Bowl. I like the Vikings. they wear purple.

    How to win one, that’s the problem.

  84. Just nutha ignint cracker says:

    @CSK: Yeah. I had one of those. My other hat was a Cat Tractors one.

  85. de stijl says:


    I have turned friends onto World Destruction. One this year. Now we dorky dance to it.

  86. de stijl says:



  87. de stijl says:

    @Mu Yixiao:

    That was awesome.

    Undead undead undead

  88. CSK says:

    @Just nutha ignint cracker:
    As do all discriminating men.

  89. ImProPer says:

    @de stijl:

    “Art Brut is a band worth listening to imo.”

    Thanks, hadn’t heard of them, listening now, I agree. Don’t agree about the Velvet Underground, and Lou Reed’s Rock and Roll Animal is still essential listening

  90. de stijl says:

    @Just nutha ignint cracker:

    BAs can be deprogrammed and amalgamated. They are not a lost cause. It’s a shame they spent four years on a bullshit education, but they can be reclaimed into honest society.

    MBAs are a different story. I can count on one hand good, positive, productive contributors. One did logistics and she rocked hard. One was a great project manager.

    MBAs want to monetize everything. Like back-office stuff. No, we cannot market Kay’s homemade Access application. Boobs and lickspittles.

  91. de stijl says:


    Didn’t say I agreed with him.

    I get the point though. Re-doing VU for the billionth time is reductive and boring unless you do it really well.

  92. JohnSF says:

    @de stijl:
    Don’t know that much about them; came across them on BBC Radio 3 Music Planet and thought “wow!”
    From Toulouse IIRC which is more Aquitaine than Gascony, I think. But as Toulouse is the main urban centre of SW France their backgrounds could be anything within the Occitan half of France, I suppose.

    re. Aquitaine and Basque IIRC there is a pretty clear distinction in linguistic terms; Occitan is “Romanesque” Latin(+Gallic) derived. But Basque is a wholly different derivation from the entire Indo-European language family.
    You’d have to ask a local for the details, but I know that the French “Gascon” is a derivative of “Basque”; but the Gascon dialect is a version of Occitan, though with quite a few Basque loan-words.

  93. JohnSF says:

    Anyone for the collaboration of Afrika Bambaataa and Leftfield? Afrika Shox!

  94. JohnSF says:

    @de stijl:
    Thought occurs to me: native/ethnic/folk musical traditions seem to be far more of a living, popular thing in Europe (including Ireland) than in England, though modified English folk music seems to be picking up more of a following.
    But it always used to be (generalizing) not much of a thing with British urban working-class kids, who were generally far more into US/UK dance/R&B/rock/pop.

  95. de stijl says:


    That link is blocked in the US. Boo!

    If you search you can get a good link.

    I approve.

  96. JohnSF says:

    @de stijl:
    Heh! If I ever run into Art Brut I’d be tempted to say “Oh, yeah, you’re those guys sound a bit like Velvet Underground with an English accent.” And grin.

  97. Jax says:

    @JohnSF: These guys are from England, I quite like them. I’ve heard they put on a pretty good live show, too, if we ever make it out of this COVID bullshit and can travel for live concerts again, I’d like to hit one of the big festivals they’re at!


  98. flat earth luddite says:

    @de stijl:

    Seattle’s South Lake Union Trolley, a light rail project through the upscale renovated area (when I lived there, it was flophouses and the like). Several vendors (including, IIRC Lesser Seattle Inc.) feature t-shirts proudly proclaiming ” I rode the SLUT).

    OTOH, someone has obviously misread my demographic. Got an invitation to buy a bottle of Pappy Van Winkle 15 year old bourbon for a paltry $1500. $1500 for 750ml of bourbon? I mean, I like bourbon more than most, but ain’t no way this Luddite is paying $1500 for a bottle!

  99. de stijl says:


    You made me spit coffee out my nose.

    I like your cheekiness.

  100. JohnSF says:

    Ah, they played at a venue in my town about four or five years ago.
    I didn’t go, LOL.
    Was told they were v. good though.
    Have to try and catch them next time they’re around.

  101. de stijl says:


    I love traditional music. I love ethnic music. Ethnic pride music is good. Ethnic pride music can also be very bad.

    We are x is great. We are x and we hate our y neighbor is very, very bad. Several big wars were fought last century over prideful ethno-nationalism.

    When I was a kid some nazi punk bands sprung up. We shunned them. Not welcome at our parties. Not welcome at our shows. You will be escorted out. Gently but firmly. We will not engage with you.

    It worked. Thankfully, as I was sort of the architect. There really was no Plan B.

    There is a difference between passive ignoring and active ignoring.

  102. Jen says:

    @de stijl:

    Come back atcha with PiL Rise. Off the album called Album, which is brilliant.

    I have this LP. When I want to feel simultaneously edgy and ancient, this is what I listen to (it is a brilliant album).

  103. de stijl says:


    Europe is very different from America. Immigrants fleeing.

    After the first gen, people saw themselves as Americans rather than German or Welsh or Swedish. The willing immigrants that is – slavery is a different story.

    There are pockets, but they have never warred against their neighbors. We are a mixed salad. Like Canada or Ozzies or Kiwis.

    Europe has ethno-cultural borders. Hard and soft.

    And a far deeper tradition of culture specific music. We have Appalachia (Scots/Irish/Welsh) which birthed country and bluegrass.

    Obviously we have black music traditions that arose in the old Confederacy.

    But it is apples and oranges. We do not have millennia old conflicts creeping around under the surface informing today.

    The past is never dead. It’s not even past. Said a clever fella.

  104. Mikey says:


    My problem with that setup is that the QB actually plays against the other team’s defense, not the other team’s QB.

    I look at it as analogous to a military commander and his offensive capabilities. He may not “play” directly against the opposing commander, but they certainly act in direct opposition to each other.

    Plus it’s just more entertaining, for me personally at least, to frame it as “Brady vs. Mahomes.” YMMV. 🙂

  105. Kathy says:

    Trump’s gonna skate in the Senate. A motion to dismiss the impeachment was defeated 55-45, meaning that at most 5 gop senators will vote to convict.

    Bunch of tribal cowards.

  106. flat earth luddite says:

    From today’s Mother Jones:

    “Nikki Haley Thinks Trump is the True Victim of the Insurrection: Give the Man a Break.”

    Seriously? What is she smoking? Where can I get some? And more importantly, do I have to get back in like for a third helping of the Kool-Aid?

    Link not included, someone less Luddite can provide it.

  107. de stijl says:


    I liked Bastille. I will look her up.

  108. JohnSF says:

    @de stijl:
    Ethnic difference, tradition, heritage, pride: Europe’s glory, and Europe’s curse.

    In some ways that’s the idealistic side of the EU, which Brexiteers never seemed to get.
    A “rule set” environment that enables positive sum games: different traditions can co-exist, even compete, without the need for fear of oppressive dominance of the OTHER.

    Mind, I say “Europe” but the same is common in so many other parts of the world.
    Group solidarity is such a base element of humans; essential, often wonderful, sometimes perilous.

  109. de stijl says:


    There is a strong possibility I am ancienter. I own Never Mind The Bollocks… bought in 1977 and hauled into how many different homes now.

  110. de stijl says:

    @flat earth luddite:

    Yesterday I bought a bottle of 750 ml Cedar Ridge bourbon for 30 bucks and felt like a big spender.

  111. CSK says:

    Trump isn’t going to be convicted. Forty-five Republican senators voted that his trial was unconstitutional. They must be terrified of him and his followers.

    The holdouts were Romney, Murkowski, Collins, Toomey, and Sasse.

  112. JohnSF says:

    @de stijl:
    Well, maybe. Your dominant “ethnic”group is much more, eh, squishy. Fuzzy edged.
    And not millennia old conflicts.

    But sometimes the conflicts you do have seem pretty hard edged: vs Native American and African Americans.

    The key difference perhaps that the “general” American shared culture is far more homogenising and dominant.
    Apart perhaps from some reservations (perhaps? dunno? maybe? You tell me!) but even there, I don’t think you’d get the full distinct cultural space (language, education, media, government etc)
    Unlike Europe where quite small ethnicities can sometimes have their own locally dominant “cultural space”.

    Another difference: America generally has always been a relatively non-stratified, and not compartmentalised society. The majority have usually been socially, economically, legally, politically dominant.
    By contrast, in Europe (and in Africa, and India, etc) you often had very split societies.
    You could have a ruling minority entirely different ethnically to the base; and often the base could be made up of distinct, separate ethnicities.

    For instance in some areas of Eastern Europe you could have a ruling Magyar (or German, or Turkish, or Greek) aristocracy, a Romanian or Slavic peasants, Vlach herdsman, Germanic or Jewish towns, Albanian craftsmen, Croat soldiers etc.

    And the various groups would get along, knowing that if they didn’t the nobility and their soldiery would bust all their heads.

    Hence the massive hangover of the collapse of “multi-ethnic” empires.

  113. dazedandconfused says:

    @flat earth luddite:

    I believe Nikki is being groomed for the top spot and was thereby encouraged to remove herself from the pending and all-but-certain Trumptrainwreck, which she did. She has emerged from her bunker to begin the courtship of The Faithful. Expect to see her on FOX quite a bit.

  114. Jax says:

    Hahahahaha…..I love this. This guy is from my community and was all over Facebook during the Capitol Riot, declaring his freeeeedumbs. Don’t let the door hit you in the ass, Mike. One more example of ETTD.


  115. Just nutha ignint cracker says:
  116. Owen says:

    @Kathy: I think it will be slightly (but not much higher) than 55. But it gets them all on record, and if there are any voters in their states with a modicum of decency, it will impact 22, 24, and 26 (at least in the Senate).

  117. flat earth luddite says:

    Saw a recent interview with David Crosby and was reminded why I’ve opted for a crewcut post-chemo/post-65. IMO, at least, bald except for around ears, going to mid-back, is just not a good look for guys. Of course, I may very well be mistaken, but just sayin…

    Follow up thought. CSN&Y or CSN? Why?

    @de stijl:

    For bourbon, I’m usually drinking Elijah Craig 94 (about $25) here. There’s other stuff in the cupboard, but it’s a nice sip. Better than the bathtub gin I learned to make in high school.

  118. Teve says:
  119. JohnSF says:

    @flat earth luddite:
    This evening Torres 10yr Gran Reserva. Yum!
    Advantages of being on work-from-home till Friday. 🙂
    Excuse: snow not yet melted outside from Monday, need the warming.

  120. Pete S says:

    Bills fans are the worst. I have been to college and NFL games in a few cities and the fans in that stadium are the drunkest most violent around. The only stadium I won’t bring my daughter to. I wish that wasn’t the closest place to go to a game.

    The charity stuff is good though.

  121. CSK says:

    That’s alarming.

    Trump has a new slogan. MAGA is out. “Save America” is in.

  122. Kathy says:


    Maybe. Maybe it won’t be as high as 55.

    If you think the trial is unconstitutional, it would be contradictory to vote conviction, even if you think Trump’s guilty. But if you think the trial is constitutional, then you may decide the merits of the case are not enough to convict.

  123. Jax says:

    @Teve: It’s no joke, man, these people are nuts. The following is a link to the website of a lady I like and respect very much in real life, and even she, a staunch Republican, has had enough.


  124. JohnSF says:

    @flat earth luddite:
    As a friend said “Once you start lookin’ like a damn monk, cut it short, or look like a fool.”
    Which pains me as a former curly dark haired type who’s now now greying and egg-like.
    Could actually grow an afro when I was a teenager, LOL.

  125. de stijl says:


    Your first two paragraphs: totally agree.

    We are very far from blameless. Immigrants tore native Americans from their land, flat-out lied to them, and shunted them off to reservations those they did not kill.

    We imported slaves from Africa and treated them as if they were sub-human. Chattel property.

    We had to compromise with slave-holding states just to ratify our constitution. Slaves were not considered fully citizens until after the 14th, 15th, and 16th Amendments were passed after our civil war which happened because slave states wanted it to happen to preserve slavery.

    Then Reconstruction. And the failure thereof. Many black citizens were essentially denied the vote until 1965.

    Faced horrific treatment by their white neighbors. Mob rule by white over black and all that implies. Jim Crow. Tulsa. Lynchings where respectable burghers took their kids to have a picnic lunch and watch a black man being hung.

    We will live in perpetual shame of the atrocities we committed. Our original sin. No argument from me.

  126. de stijl says:

    @Pete S:

    Strong recommendation: never go to Philadelphia. Rampant drunken hooliganism.

  127. de stijl says:


    Hold on, son! Rs are totally against cancel culture. They can’t shut up about it. Ever.

    Ergo, the Oregon and Arizona legislative censures must have been carried out by leftist socialists cunningly deporting as R legislators to do such a foul deed. False flag operation.

  128. de stijl says:

    @flat earth luddite:

    I am super fine with Old Crow. Cedar Ridge was an impulse buy to support a homie distiller.

    But with Scotch I am pretty finicky. Smoky peat please or fuck off.

    I seriously do not get the point of clear liquor. At all. Some of the artisan gins, maybe. Just not my jam.

  129. Kathy says:


    Not an exact quote, but: “The revolution is a beast that devours its own children.”

  130. JohnSF says:

    @de stijl:
    Ah, it’s not like you’re more culpable than others.
    Looking just at the British Isles you get
    – mesolithic/neolithic “natives”
    – a c.90% genetic replacement by the late neolithic/bronze “Beaker/Wessex” groups
    – Q Celts
    – P Celts
    – Belgic Celts
    – Romans
    – Anglo-Saxons
    – Norse and Danes
    – Norman-French….

    And then the revival of slave economics on an increasingly racialised basis started by the Iberians and then eagerly developed and exploited by the British and French.

    And you can easily find parallels from almost any other human culture: China, India, Sumer, Aztec, Abassid, Byzantine, etc etc some externally aggressive, some internally oppressive.

    The whole of human history is both fascinating and horrifying, beautiful and terrible.
    The thing is to learn from it.
    What to keep; what to put aside.

    As a very wise man said: “The arc of the moral universe is long, but it bends toward justice.”
    But IMHO only if we pull on the lever.
    In their different ways, however morally ambiguous their birthing, the modern democracies, the US, the EU, etc., provide the political space for such leverage, for a shift to non-zero sum modes.

  131. Just nutha ignint cracker says:

    As a very wise man said: “The arc of the moral universe is long, but it bends toward justice.”
    But IMHO only if we pull on the lever.


  132. de stijl says:


    I am fascinated by the Beaker culture. Mostly because I envision all looking like scientist muppets.

    Those weren’t Danes. It was Swedish Chef.

  133. de stijl says:


    Ya gotta own it. The past. Even if you were not born yet.

    It is an obligation. You have to.

  134. de stijl says:


    The Mountain Goats have an album called Heretic Pride.

    I really like Autoclave. The whole lot is pretty outstanding.

    Of course, check out You Were Cool and Up The Wolves. Picture Of My Dress. So many more.

    The Mountain Goats are essential.

  135. Flat Earth Luddite says:

    @de stijl:
    Uh… Oregon Dornbecher conference (state Republican convention) has been steadily falling off the right wing wack job edge for 30+ years. Antifa/anarchists work in long range plans? Whodathunkit!