Trump Threatened with Jail for 10th Gag Order Violation
WaPo (“Looking Trump in the eye, the N.Y. judge warns he may jail him“):
The judge overseeing Donald Trump’s criminal trial found him in contempt of court Monday — the 10th such violation of a gag order — and warned the former president that he was flirting with jail time if he continued to talk or post online statements about witnesses, jurors, or relatives of those involved in the case.
“Mr. Trump, it’s important to understand that the last thing I want to do is to put you in jail,” New York Supreme Court Justice Juan Merchan warned from the bench. “You are the former president of the United States, and possibly the next president, as well.”
But Merchan added he would take that step if Trump’s behavior did not change.
“Your continued violations of this Court’s lawful order threaten to interfere with the administration of justice, in constant attacks which constitute a direct attack on the rule of law,” Merchan said. “I cannot allow that to continue.”
The warning came as prosecutors signaled they expected their presentation to last roughly two more weeks.
Merchan’s statement marks a significant escalation of the courtroom game of chicken that has played out in recent weeks between the judge and the defendant, who is facing 34 felony counts of falsifying business documents and possible jail time if convicted. Trump, whom Merchan last week fined $9,000 for nine violations of the gag order, has somewhat reined in his public remarks.
The judge had given Trump a similar warning earlier, but only in writing.
The judge said Monday that jailing Trump would require a monumental effort involving several law enforcement agencies including the Secret Service and New York’s corrections department.
“To take that step would be disruptive to these proceedings,” he said.
Trump did not reply to Merchan’s warning.
Merchan, a stern but soft-spoken judge, did not raise his voice Monday even as he spoke about a once-unthinkable scenario — the presumptive GOP nominee for president running for office from a jail cell. Trump is the first former U.S. president to face a criminal trial, and Merchan’s toughest warning to date came on the fourth week of the proceedings, at roughly the halfway mark of the trial.
In his ruling, Merchan decided that Trump’s comments in an interview — in which he criticized the makeup and selection of his jury — had violated the gag order, while three other public statements he made around that same period in late April had not.
Merchan’s decision marks the second time Trump has been told his statements outside court — whether in interviews or social media posts — violated the court order.
I’m by no means an expert in criminal procedure but I’ll go out on a limb and say that most criminal defendants would have been jailed well before the tenth warning. But, of course, Trump isn’t any other defendant. As Merchan rightly notes, he’s not only the immediate past President of the United States but he’s currently roughly 50-50 to win the job back in November.
And, yes, since Congress didn’t anticipate ex-Presidents being convicted of crimes (or jailed for contempt), it seems that he would continue to receive Secret Service protection while incarcerated. While that seems bizarre to me, it’s quite possibly necessary. He would certainly be an attractive target.
Trump seems to relish the spectacle.
POLITICO (“Trump on going to jail over gag order: ‘I’ll do that sacrifice’“):
Donald Trump said he would rather risk imprisonment than comply with a gag order in his on-going criminal trial, just hours after the judge overseeing his criminal hush-money trial threatened to put the former president in jail.
“Frankly our Constitution is much more important than jail,” Trump said to press in the hallway of the Manhattan courthouse. “It’s not even close. I’ll do that sacrifice any day.”
[…]
A fundraising email sent Monday before court was out said: “The liberal judge in New York just threatened to THROW ME IN JAIL” with emphasized red lettering and the subject line, “They want me in HANDCUFFS.”
The email encouraged supporters to “Stand with Trump” and directed donations to a joint-fundraising committee launched this spring, Trump National Committee JFC, which sends money both to Trump’s campaign account and the Republican National Committee. Both entities are being out-raised by their Democratic counterparts.
The contempt rulings provide Trump with a new way to criticize the trial and criminal justice system, which he has asserted is unfair and biased against him. Throughout the 2024 campaign, Trump has railed against the four separate criminal cases against him, claiming that he’s being unfairly targeted while at the same time sending out fundraising solicitations.
As to the politics, WaPo’s Aaron Blake muses “How would Americans react to Trump in jail?” After a lot of throat-clearing, he offers
Polls have yet to ask how Americans would view Trump’s being jailed for violating the gag order, and much would depend on the specifics.
But a strong majority of Americans have been open to the prospect of his being incarcerated if warranted. And at the very least, Americans tend to view Trump’s conduct as problematic — both generally and in this trial.
Americans view Trump’s conduct as problematic
A CNN poll last week found that Americans said by a 17-point margin, 42 percent to 25 percent, that Trump’s conduct in his Manhattan trial had been “mostly inappropriate” rather than “mostly appropriate.” (The poll was conducted before the judge initially found Trump had violated his gag order nine times but after Trump’s offending statements and after the judge rebuked Trump for potential juror intimidation.)
Many Americans were undecided, but it would seem telling that less than a majority of Republicans(48 percent) vouched for Trump’s conduct at the trial. And independents viewed Trump’s conduct 2-to-1 as inappropriate.
Americans have also viewed Trump’s conduct — even aside from this trial — as a strike against him.
The Public Religion Research Institute has shown as many as 6 in 10 Americans have said Trump’s conduct made them less likely to support him, while less than 1 in 10 have said it made them more likely to support him. And a 2020 Pew Research Center poll showed 53 percent of Americans didn’t like the way Trump conducted himself as president, compared to just 15 percent who did. (The rest had “mixed feelings.”)
What we see in those numbers is a potential acknowledgment that Trump could bring these things on himself and truly force the judge’s hand — again, depending on the specific behavior to trigger jail time.
They don’t buy into Trump’s victimization claims so far
The same CNN poll mentioned above provided another instructive finding: Just 34 percent thought Trump was being treated more harshly than most other criminal defendants.
That could certainly change if people view throwing him in jail as excessive, but it speaks to how Americans at this point don’t broadly buy into Trump’s claims of persecution and could view such a step as justified.
They’ve broadly said incarceration could be warranted
As for actually entertaining Trump behind bars? A huge majority of Americans have been willing to do so if they view it as justified — at least in the event of a conviction. A January Reuters/Ipsos poll showed 71 percent of Americans said Trump should be put in prison if he broke the law and were convicted, with 53 percent “strongly” agreeing with that. Just 16 percent disagreed, essentially saying Trump shouldn’t be imprisoned regardless.
That’s not the same as locking him up for a gag-order violation. But it again suggests incarcerating Trump is something Americans could get behind under the right circumstances.
They’re skeptical of the process
The question would be whether they view Trump as being sufficiently at fault.
Merchan has taken care to cast this as a bad but potentially necessary option that would be arrived at only when he had no other choice. But a recent AP-NORC poll showed Americans view Trump’s judges with skepticism; about 4 in 10 Americans said they had little or no confidence in them, while just more than 2 in 10 were “extremely” or “very” confident.
At some point, since Trump shows no signs of being restrained, the judge will have no choice but to follow through on his threat. So I guess we’ll find out.
Merchan will feature prominently in Time’s Convict of the Year issue.
Who are we to stand in the way?
Trump’s stated eagerness to be jailed to stand up for principle is every bit as convincing as his constant vows that he will testify under oath. At the last minute there is always some reason why he won’t be allowed to do it, despite his strong desire to make his own case…
Judge Merchan faces the same dilemma that the parent of a toddler who is throwing a fit in the supermarket faces: Do I discipline him now and risk the scorn of other shoppers, or do I let him continue to act out, and risk the scorn of other shoppers? Is the toddler emboldened by the circumstances – knowing the parent cannot drop the hammer on him in public? Sadly, in this analogy, the toddler is not just a grown man, he is the former President. Trump SHOULD be embarrassed about acting so childishly, and so should his supporters. Why would anyone want this emotionally stunted man to represent our country on the world stage?
One NYT columnist had a good suggestion: rather than jail him, sign him up for some community service cleaning a city park.
@wr:
I think this is absolutely right. I suspect Trump is terrified at the thought of being in a real jail, although if it is house arrest, he might relish it. But in his specific case I don’t know if he has the self discipline any more to keep his mouth shut.
The gag order is clearly unconstitutional. Put Trump in jail and this will get express routed to appeal. Trump is gagged while the witnesses are running podcasts and the judges own daughter is using the trial to fundraise for Democrats.
Not to mention, as we see in the comments here, the true nature of TDS suffers will be writ large. And like the little shites on campus recently, most Americans are likely to be disgusted. The bloodlust in trying to remove Secret Service protection is telling. But the CIA can’t really kill Trump and RFKjr in the same election cycle without revealing themselves so Democrats will have to make a choice.
Judge Merchan has the power to hand the presidency to Donald Trump if he seeks to jail him. No doubt frenzied consultations with the White House are underway.
From a legal standpoint, is the New York Department of Corrections actually required to allow the Secret Service any particular access beyond what they choose to accommodate? If I get arrested, that doesn’t mean my private security gets to start ordering the jail around.
@JKB:..The gag order is clearly unconstitutional.
Please cite a legitimate case to support this claim.
@Stormy Dragon:
You know, solitary confinement would solve or simplify many of these issues.
@JKB:
TDS? A reference to your Trump Dickriding Syndrome?
The gag order is legal. Drowsy Don is an immature, reckless criminal and liar who is unqualified for most jobs, especially the presidency. Trump is an incompetent sore loser and a pervert who publicly praised Jeff Epstein for liking women “on the younger side” — while Trump himself admitted wanting to bang his own daughter. Ew.
Donald “Lock Her Up” Trump is very unlikeable, a corrupt crybaby and drama queen who most of America is sick of. That’s why no one is heeding his sad, desperate calls for mass courthouse protests. It’s why Republican Geoff Duncan, Georgia’s former lieutenant gov., just endorsed Biden. It’s also why Trump being jailed would prompt more yawning than backlash — despite the empty threats of his dickriders. Losers, who won’t do anything but talk big online.
Lock Him Up!
Lock Him Up!
Lock Him Up!
#karma
@Mister Bluster:
Oh, easy. In the year 2000 in the case of, I think, Cook County vs Rocket J. Squirrel and Bullwinkle J. Moose, Judge Cameo ruled celebrities are above the law.
Now, if you meant a real world case, well…
@Stormy Dragon:
Your private security does not consist of federal law enforcement agents with a clear statutory obligation. IANAL, but believe that from a legal perspective this is a piece of cake — states are not allowed to nullify federal statutes.
@JKB:
You guys don’t just have Alternate Facts, you have a complete Alternate Reality, one easily found by Doing Your Own Research.
@Michael Cain:
IANAL, but it’s my understanding is that under current SCOTUS precedent, federal police power is pretty restricted relative to state police power, so I question the degree the Secret Service is going to be permitted to interfere in the functioning of a state jail.
It’s kind of the same way federal task forces need state police included because they need state cooperation to have police powers in most situations.
@Michael Cain:
Federal law preempts state law, the Secret Service protection is by act of Congress.
There have already been discussions between the Secret Service and the NY authorities about how to implement this requirement.
My sense is that we won’t be talking Riker’s, but a courthouse holding cell. More’s the pity. But if they take his phone away and just hold him for 12 hours he’ll lose what little is left of his mind.
As @wr: suggests, the idea that he’ll welcome jail is pure bullshit. Jail is a sobering experience, even a nice jail. And it subverts Trump’s whole macho outlaw persona because he will submit. He will be led away by bailiffs.
@JKB:
As always, every accusation is a confession with you people. It’s your side talking about murdering political opponents. Like, say, Mike Pence. But I do savor your obvious panic.
@Michael Reynolds: I am occasionally reminded of William Casey, Reagan’s CIA Director. He appeared to be deeply involved in the Iran-Contra farce. He was due to testify before Congress, but went into the hospital the day before and died a few days later of a previously undiagnosed brain tumor. There was, of course some speculation that he hadn’t died, but had managed to disappear. This, was, of course, held to be ridiculous. After all, to pull that off you’d need an unscrupulous organization that could find and kill a body double, forge medical records, and arrange a secure hiding place. Umh,….wait…
@Joe: This is exactly what should be done. Trump wants to fundraise off the images of him being locked up. So, deny him that, and do something that he’d never deign to do himself, like pick up trash and discarded needles.
But for the love of Pete, do SOMETHING. Trump is thumbing his nose at the entire legal process.
@Michael Cain:
Apparently the only current issue is the holding cell at the courthouse.
“ABC”
(Google is your friend).
@JKB:
LOL. No. No it is not. Trump is using speech to intimidate witnesses and threaten the judge and his family–these are not constitutionally protected speech, they are illegal attempts to mess with the legal case.
Do you really believe this nonsense??? This is next-level paranoia, and if you genuinely think this is real, you need to up your medication.
@JKB:
Evidence and argument for this assertion?
@JKB:
BTW, I agree that that is gross, even if intentions are dark humor.
@JKB:
I don’t know that this is true, an exaggeration, someone’s fevered imagination, or an outright fabrication. But let’s say its an accurate and fair characterization.
So what? What part of the constitution does this violate? The testimony of the witnesses is public, and they get to repeat it again. They aren’t charged with a crime. If they were subject to a gag order, then they would have to comply. They aren’t. I take it you think that’s unfair.
(Do you want me to try to enumerate the number of unfair ways Trump has taken advantage? It might take all day. And yes, I think when Trump fans say “he’s a fighter” what they mean is “He fights dirty, and we need that because otherwise we’re losing”)
However, I think this is pretty equitable. You want to put Trump and witnesses on an equal footing. They aren’t. That’s not how this works. Trump’s peers are other defendants in similar cases.
The daughter of the judge is a citizen under the law. She is no different than Trump’s children, whom I expect are saying plenty about the trial and not getting hit with gag orders or fines.
I’m just not seeing how this means diddly.
@Steven L. Taylor:
Yeah, I am not a fan of prison rape jokes, etc… For obvious reasons. I’d enjoy seeing Trump get booked into Riker’s, but no one is guilty until a jury says they’re guilty, and being shived or turned out is not how we should deal with the accused.
Sucks for the agents, though. I believe the Brits still control St. Helena, we should be able to work out an exile arrangement. From Wiki: The climate of Saint Helena is tropical, marine and mild, tempered by the Benguela Current and trade winds that blow almost continuously. Much better for the Secret Service than Sing Sing.
You don’t have a clue of what you are talking about.
eta: as per usual.
@charontwo:
How about scenic Guantanamo Bay? I’m sure they can make room for one more, real major threat to America in there.
@Michael Reynolds: We’ve got all these Guano Islands lying around that might prove useful for this. I’ll let you make what you will of that name.
Sigh… here goes:
@JKB:
No, it’s not “clearly” unconstitutional. First, gag orders have yet to be found unconstitutional. We are getting some new law out of this case. It is possible that sections have been set too broadly. However, the gag orders on Trump continue to hold up on appeal.
Also, the fact that USC hasn’t fast-tracked any of those appeals speaks volumes about how this clearly isn’t “clearly.”
Let’s keep going.
This is completely correct, and that is why I don’t expect Trump to be put in temporary detention (a 2 hour time out) unless he does something so incredibly provocative that it cannot be avoided.
First, I agree with you about the witness issue. So does the Judge, apparently, as he has threatened both Daniels and Cohn with gag orders. BTW, to my knowledge they actually took the hint and stopped that behavior. If that’s not the case, let me know.
https://www.newsweek.com/judge-merchan-concerns-michael-cohen-trump-trial-1896782
The important point here is Trump could choose to stop speaking unprovoked about the trial. But we know that isn’t going to happen.
Second, nice misrepresentation of the facts with the Judge’s Daughter–who is a Democratic political consultant. It might shock people to know that the Democrats think they should use the Republican Nominee being currently tried as the basis for advertisements.
Conspiracy much? First the jury is out on whether or not the Secret Service would allow this to happen. Secondly, if Trump was temporarily detained at the Court House, the SS would be there with him.
If you believe that final sentence then I guess “yes, you do conspiracy much.” Any consultation between the White House and the judge would be exceptionally corrupt and illegal. Theoretically that would be allowed, though unethical, between the White House and the prosecution. Considering that the Prosecution keeps pushing for these sanctions, it really doesn’t seem like this is the case.
All that said, given how damaging the testimony has been so far, I can understand wanting to create conspiracy theories to help keep your mind off things.
Well, Stormy Daniels testified today. Judge Merchan disallowed any testimony about the size of trump’s genitalia.
@Matt Bernius
So, I just deleted a reply where I gave you grief for the futility of your efforts to engage a certain type of commenter, but I thought it was worth preserving at least this:
@Matt Bernius I see a long-ish post by you and I think, “I wonder what Matt is on about? Always a good read”, …
@CSK:
Well, it’s a trial, after all. Not a lecture on reproductive microbiology.
@Kathy:
Nor micromycology.
ETA: Trump must have been well-sedated today not to have exploded during the Daniels testimony.
@MarkedMan:
It’s so me and that made my day!
– Matt
Some weeks ago my wife and I had dinner on the patio of a local restaurant. Some fool was circling the block with a jacked up truck and a jacked up stereo blaring bass heavy “music” at about 110 dB. Most diners and passersby were studiously ignoring him, but some looked up, even made rude gestures. Apparently sufficient to satisfy his desire for attention. @JKB: reminded of this episode.
@JKB:
Frankly, I think Trump is more worried about what kind of ‘official act’ Joe Biden might be considering vis-a-vis his political opposition should the Supreme Court rule that a president is immune from any legal sanctions.
@Matt Bernius:
The judge has drawn his line in the sand, and said that the permitted fines are not influencing the defendant’s behavior.
I expect that defense lawyers will be asked to come up with alternatives to jailing Trump, as the judge is bending over backwards to avoid having to do so.
But, in the end, the judge will either have to act or lose control of the trial. Or kick the can down the road and try to get the trial over fast enough that it doesn’t matter. But unless he can wrap it up by the end of the week or so, I don’t think that happens.
@MarkedMan: I assume Mr. Bernius is well aware of the unlikelihood of a reasoned debate with JKB, and engages with him, her or them for reasons of his own.
I just hope he enjoys himself while doing so.
The old adage really should be this: Don’t feed the troll, unless you really want to.
@JKB:
I hope Merchan and his contacts in the White House are using clean burner phones for these frenzied consultations. Perhaps someone from the CIA drops off a clean one every day, in a park about 20 miles from the judge’s house. I’d still worry about the phone company recording the conversations, but that’s probably paranoid — the phone companies are probably in on this.
@charontwo:
To the MAGAs, “doing your own research” means Googling every semi-literate, paranoid, crackpot blog and quoting its ravings as fact.
@Gustopher:
It’s a risk and I think you are right that the message the judge sent was more aimed at the defense counsel than Trump directly. And JKB is right that any detention would immediate trigger an appeal that would muddy the waters tremendously. Which is why it has to be a bright line violation (if one happens).
And today was apparently quite the day. I’m sure JKB will be back to knash his teeth in a future thread about a mistrial. It’s clearly something on the Judge’s mind.
Eric Adams, who apparently holds a position of some importance in NYC, claims Rikers Island is ready to admit Lardass when the judge so orders.
Lardass could perhaps take comfort in a quote from Rober Frost: Home is the place where, when you have to go there, they have to take you in.
What? he will have to go, if Judge Merchan so orders, and they have to take him in.
@Kathy:
Well, it seems to be eminently clear that if he considers MAGA-Lardo his home, Melania’s just as happy not to have him there, even though they sleep at opposite ends of the place.
@Steven L. Taylor:
Free Speech. Since I can’t use a verboten subject.
@Gustopher: For years I couldn’t understand the appeal of arguing with people like these, but more recently I think I’ve got at least an inkling. Oddly, it’s because most of the commentariat here have too much self respect to engage in strong man arguments. After all, constructing straw men to do battle with is just one step away from imagining in your own head how you would take down those terrorists if they tried to hijack your plane or single handedly face down the dozen Hell’s Angels roughing up an old lady. People might think it, but those with self respect know enough not to say it out loud.
But our trumpers present the best of both worlds. Here is an opponent who is so clumsy and inept that it takes nothing to crush them. And they are nasty and sarcastic to boot. They are actualized straw men, so there’s no loss of face in fighting them. They are as bad as you can imagine, and as easily dealt with.
The judge has effectively advised the defendant that this is it, last chance. Next penalty is jail and he has ten examples of why fines are insufficient to back him up.
My gut says, assuming Trump is capable of restraining himself, he will stop violating the order. Trump’s a habitual line-stepper but has a long record of committing crimes and not going to the poky for any of them. He knows the game well and he seeks to be a fake martyr, not the real thing.
@MarkedMan:
Not to mention some of them seem to be running on GPT0.0 Beta.
I encourage our conservative commentariat to pressure their Representatives and Senators to craft legislation codifying the rights of prisoners and defendants, since so many are being so brutally mistreated.
Trump, and the January 6 martyrs/hostages/fools-who-were-wrongly-convicted-because-antifa-hired-their-exact-doppelgangers-to-commit-crimes are getting the lightest treatment. If even this is wrong, let’s set the standards by law so they apply to everyone.
Only 25% joking.
@Mister Bluster:
Judge: Orangeo Mano Bado.
@Paul L.: But what if — and hear me out on this — the orange man really is bad?
Obviously we would need to qualify the metrics by which the orange man is bad, but for the sake of this let’s limit it to behavior in the court room, as well as behavior outside the courtroom that has a direct impact upon the events in the courtroom. And we would score him on a curve of other defendants on trial for similar financial crimes. We can probably even find other politicians who have faced similar charges, to compare their behavior. Or other men who abuse bronzer.
Let’s just say, hypothetically, that the orange man is bad. How should the judge handle this?
Can you elaborate on your position to actually make a coherent point? If you can’t, what does that say about the education system that so failed you?
@Gustopher: Ouch! That’s gonna leave a mark. 🙁