Tuesday’s Forum

James Joyner
About James Joyner
James Joyner is Professor and Department Head of Security Studies at Marine Corps University's Command and Staff College and a nonresident senior fellow at the Scowcroft Center for Strategy and Security at the Atlantic Council. He's a former Army officer and Desert Storm vet. Views expressed here are his own. Follow James on Twitter @DrJJoyner.


  1. OzarkHillbilly says:

    I went to the surgeon yesterday and found out that I had a complete tear of the subscapularis muscle, which is why he had to make a nine stitch incision so it could be reattached. Kinda surprised me. I would’ve thought I’d have had a lot more pain than I did, also that it would have shown if I’d just looked in the mirror. Oh well.

    PT is gonna be a mother.

  2. OzarkHillbilly says:

    Weatherwatch: have you felt the effects of global heating?

    Jennifer Marlon, a climate scientist at Yale University, and colleagues asked more than 13,000 US residents whether they had felt the impact of global heating.

    Comparing responses with climate data revealed that people who had experienced an unusually high number of hot dry days were far more likely to say they had felt the impact of global heating than those who experienced very heavy rain or snow or unusually hot – but not dry – days. These trends held true regardless of respondents’ political or socioeconomic status.

    The answer is, “Yes.” whether one knows it or not.

  3. OzarkHillbilly says:

    Republican primary winner is ex-felon who never applied for the right to hold office

    The winning Republican in this week’s congressional primary in South Florida is a convicted felon who did not go through the state’s process to restore his civil rights after his imprisonment, interviews and records show. That step is required under Florida law for a candidate to hold political office. Jason Mariner, 36, of Palm Beach Gardens, an advertising executive and self-described “America First” conservative candidate, won Tuesday’s GOP primary with 58 percent of votes in the heavily Democratic 20th Congressional District. It wasn’t immediately clear whether the election’s outcome would be challenged. The general election will be Jan. 11. Democrats have held the seat — one of the most Democratic districts in Florida — for more than two decades.

    Mariner had served roughly two years total in the Palm Beach County Jail over 2007 and 2012 on charges that included felony theft, burglary, cocaine possession, obstruction and violently resisting arrest, records show. He was open during his campaign about his criminal background, telling voters, “Before running for Congress, I ran from the law.” He also promised he would be tough on crime.

    Under new clemency rules Gov. Ron DeSantis announced earlier this year, ex-felons are automatically entitled to have their rights restored — including the right to hold political office — but must submit to a formal process administered by the Florida Commission on Offender Review and Office of Executive Clemency. Under a constitutional amendment that Florida voters approved in 2020, ex-felons can register to vote once they serve their prison terms and pay any court fines.

    Mariner confirmed Thursday in an interview he did not go through the process to restore his right to hold office. “No, nothing,” he said. He said later he was confident he was a lawful candidate. “No, it’s not going to be an issue,” he said.

    If that isn’t on brand, I’m not sure what is.

  4. senyordave says:

    Just another day in crazy land:
    Twitter flags GOP lawmaker’s anime video depicting him killing Ocasio-Cortez, attacking Biden

    But some blogger somewhere said “Fuck Trump”, so both sides

  5. CSK says:

    That was Paul Gosar who posted the anime.

  6. OzarkHillbilly says:

    A North Dakota Republican who organized a rally to oppose Covid-19 vaccine mandates said he would not attend the event – because he was infected with Covid-19. The state representative, Jeff Hoverson, posted on Facebook on Sunday that he was “quarantining and each day is getting better”.

    The Minot lawmaker said he was taking the deworming drug ivermectin as a Covid-19 treatment and had not checked into a hospital. “Covid is real and like a really bad flu,” Hoverson wrote.

    Hoverson, a pastor, told the Associated Press he was diagnosed last week. “I’m feeling rough,” he said on Monday, the day of the planned rally. “But this ivermectin is keeping me out of the hospital.”

    Ivermectin is designed to fight parasitic infections but conservative commentators have promoted it as a treatment for Covid-19, despite a lack of evidence that it helps.

    “It’s making me better,” Hoverson said.

    Apparently Ivermectin isn’t so good at fighting parasitic infections either. Appears to be having the opposite of the desired effect.

  7. OzarkHillbilly says:

    @CSK: So, also completely on brand.

  8. Mu Yixiao says:


    Damn. Not envying your PT burden.

    Seems like we’re all just falling apart here, doesn’t it?

  9. OzarkHillbilly says:


    Mary L Trump
    Big Bird is kind, compassionate, empathetic, loving, adored, and vaccinated. Ted Cruz is . . . vaccinated.

  10. Mu Yixiao says:


    Comparing responses with climate data revealed that people who had experienced an unusually high number of hot dry days were far more likely to say they had felt the impact of global heating than those who experienced very heavy rain or snow or unusually hot – but not dry – days. These trends held true regardless of respondents’ political or socioeconomic status.

    This is where messaging is important. “Global warming” means “things are getting hotter”. It doesn’t mean “it’s raining and snowing more”. Those just don’t link in people’s minds. “Climate Change” is better, but… kinda non-specific.

    If it could be referred to as “fvcked up weather”, people would all go “Yeah! The weather really has been fvcked up lately!”

  11. Mu Yixiao says:

    And… on point. 😀

  12. OzarkHillbilly says:

    @Mu Yixiao: This time around has been a bit of an eye opener for me. I’ve had lots of surgeries over the years, the inevitable result of a life hard lived. This is the 2nd time I’ve had post op complications and both are in the past 3 years. Which says to me my body is in general decline. (has been for a while on the musculoskeletal side, but these latest failures seem to be in the core organ functions)

    Both times the complications were connected to the general anasthesia. So maybe I should just avoid GA as much as possible.

  13. CSK says:

    Twitter is leaving the anime up and running in the public interest, even though it violates their terms of service.

    Gosar’s sister said that he should be stopped because he’s hoping one of his followers “will act on his sick fantasies.”

  14. Sleeping Dog says:
  15. Sleeping Dog says:

    Black Voters Want Better Policing, Not Posturing by Progressives

    Those of us who had long fought for a reckoning over police abuse in Minneapolis expected to see a critical examination of the practices, laws, policies, contractual requirements and spending that undergird policing. We expected a well-thought-out, evidence-based, comprehensive plan to remake our police department.

    Instead, what we got was progressive posturing of a kind seen throughout the country and a missed opportunity to bring about real change and racial justice.

    This was made plain last week when voters rejected a proposal to replace the Minneapolis Police Department with a new Department of Public Safety. While many white progressives embraced the ballot measure as a sign of progress, many Black residents like me raised concerns that the plan lacked specificity and could reduce public safety in the Black community without increasing police accountability. The city’s largest Black neighborhoods voted it down, while support was greater in areas where more white liberals lived.

    Progressives, we have met the enemy and he is us.

  16. OzarkHillbilly says:

    @CSK: Rules like laws, should apply equally to all people. Instead we get:

    Conservatism consists of exactly one proposition, to wit: There must be in-groups whom the law protects but does not bind, alongside out-groups whom the law binds but does not protect.

    -Frank Wilhoit

  17. OzarkHillbilly says:

    @Sleeping Dog: For decades, nay centuries, the choice has always been the status quo or more of the same.

    Seems like we are getting more of the same. Hanging that result solely around the neck of “progressives” kinda misses the point.

  18. Jen says:

    Sununu will NOT be running for US Senate against Maggie Hassan, and is instead opting to run for Governor again.


  19. Michael Reynolds says:

    @Sleeping Dog:
    Police reform was always going to be down and dirty work in the political trenches, long term work, lifetime commitment work, which is why I never held out much hope. Showing up at every city council meeting, organizing, drafting legislation, searching for compromises, that’s all way harder than coming up with a hashtag. IMO white progressives absconded with BLM and made it about middle-class kids breaking windows in Portland. What a fiasco.

  20. OzarkHillbilly says:

    @Jen: Interesting indeed. He feels the need to be politically relevant but sees running for the Senate as the end of political relevance.

    I guess.

  21. Jen says:

    @OzarkHillbilly: He had a health scare earlier this year. I wonder how much that factored into things. He also has invited the wrath of the nutball/Trump contingency by actually being reasonable about covid restrictions, and maybe didn’t want to invite all of that out-of-state money/attention from those clowns.

    Or, maybe he’s staying in NH for another 2-year term as governor so he can run for President in 2024.

  22. CSK says:

    My immediate reaction is that he feels he has a better chance of being re-elected governor than he does of beating Hassan.

  23. OzarkHillbilly says:

    @Jen: I’ll take your analysis over my back of the napkin political prognosticating.

  24. OzarkHillbilly says:

    What Josh Hawley gets right — and so very wrong — about being a man

    Earlier this week, Republican Sen. Josh Hawley went before the National Conservatism Conference and laid out a long list of problems facing American men that I more or less agree with, which may be a first for the right-winger and me. Alas, that’s where the agreement ends, because Hawley’s proposed “solution” is to double down on what he called “traditional” manliness. He said in his speech that “the left wants to define the traditional masculine virtues — things like courage and independence, and assertiveness — as a danger to society.”

    Hawley countered that he wants “a revival of strong and healthy manhood in America. We need men who will shoulder responsibility, men who will start and provide for families, men who will enter the covenant of marriage and then honor it.”

    I don’t know. I never had a problem “being a man” in this time frame. Neither did either of my brothers who are way different than I and chose much different paths. The same for both of my sons. This guy takes the long way around but does get to where I was when I first heard of Hawley’s speech:

    We can’t fix the real problems facing American men by trying to roll American masculinity back to some nostalgic fantasy of the past. The year 2021 is here. My message to Hawley: man up and adapt to it.

  25. Jen says:

    @CSK: Most polls thus far (admittedly early) have Hassan within the margin of error against a generic opponent. Her approval rating isn’t great either. I don’t know what went into his reasoning, but Hassan is definitely in trouble.

  26. CSK says:

    I think the analysis you provide here @Jen: is pretty much on target.

  27. Kylopod says:

    @Jen: Maybe he just isn’t eager to become a Trump toady and/or McConnell slave, which is what all Senate Republicans are these days.

  28. SC_Birdflyte says:

    @CSK: If this isn’t a case for expulsion from Congress, I don’t know what is.

  29. OzarkHillbilly says:

    @Kylopod: Say WHAT??? A Republican with principles? That’s right up there with dodos and white rhinos.

    @SC_Birdflyte: I hate to say it, but I don’t think you know what is.

  30. Kylopod says:


    Say WHAT??? A Republican with principles? That’s right up there with dodos and white rhinos.

    Who said anything about principles? You don’t need principles to not want to be the butt-boy to Orange Jesus and the Turtle.

  31. Michael Reynolds says:

    No one is trying to define courage as a bad thing, they’re trying to define it as a universal rather than a specifically male thing.

    The problem of men is a real, a thing I’ve been worried about for decades. Like you, I don’t get it at a personal level – I never really thought of myself as anything but me. But most men are not actually loners, though they identify with the Clint Eastwood/John Wayne visions of lonely masculinity. The knight errant thing. The hero fantasies – lots of shooting, some gratitude sex, then off to the horizon with no responsibility for the sequelae. In reality the vast majority of men are privates, they need a platoon, they need a sergeant and a hierarchy. Far from being independent souls they are deeply dependent on other men. They are followers, which is not a bad thing, not everyone can be a boss. It’s just that when men desperate for belonging make bad choices about what to belong to. The days of Shriners and Odd Fellows and Moose has given way to militias.

  32. Jay L Gischer says:


    Huh. The “courage, independence and assertiveness” thing has long bothered me. We like these qualities. We like them in whomever has them. We liked them in Harriet Tubman. We liked them in Audie Murphy. We liked the courage that Christopher Reeve showed after becoming paralyzed.

    Do these words then, somehow stand in for, “and we don’t want to do child care!”?

    Or is it shorthand for “don’t tell me to change the way I talk to people!”?

    I’m not really sure.

  33. Just nutha ignint cracker says:

    @Sleeping Dog:

    The city’s largest Black neighborhoods voted it down, while support was greater in areas where more white liberals lived.

    Progressives, we have met the enemy and he is us.

    Or maybe black voters see the “say hello to the new boss/he’s the same as the old boss” qualities of renaming exercises. Not that I don’t agree that we HAVE met the enemy and that he IS us most assuredly.

  34. Michael Reynolds says:

    @Jay L Gischer:
    It’s shorthand for, ‘I never outgrew my childish notions of manhood, now, having failed to adapt, I’m scared I’m a dinosaur. ‘

  35. Sleeping Dog says:


    In a way that isn’t surprising. I’ve not seen any indication that Sununu wants to be a senator and even if he does, waiting to till 2026, when there maybe an open seat and an easier election is tempting.

    Besides, who in their right mind would want to join a senate caucus where the ideological center is Josh Hawley and Ted Cruz?

  36. gVOR08 says:

    @OzarkHillbilly: How is this a political problem? What legislative or regulatory changes did Hawley propose to deal with this? Conservatives suffer from an inability to separate politics from culture. And most people vote on culture. So conservative politicians thrive on this inability. And this example shows how desperate Hawley is to talk about anything other than GOP policy.

    LGM likes to use a picture of Hawley stretching to shop for top shelf wines. A great exemplar of blue collar manliness.

  37. Kathy says:


    Where does “whine like a lost puppy at the terror of a small vaccine needle” fit in?

    Also, is there any room for “endure inconvenience to protect other people”?

  38. Sleeping Dog says:

    @Just nutha ignint cracker:

    Given that turnout was higher than normal in black and minority precincts, there was more going on than same old, same old.

  39. CSK says:

    One of the Jan. 6 rioters, Evan Neumann, 48, of California, has sought asylum in Belarus.

    Neumann punched 2 cops, helped shove a metal barricade into a line of cops, and yelled “I’m willing to die; are you?” at another cop.

    Belarus tv is billing this guy as a victim of “political persecution” from “the land of fairy tale freedoms.”

    Neumann says he had to sneak into Belarus from Ukraine because he was being surveilled in the latter.

  40. inhumans99 says:


    That is awesome, nothing says I am a real man like shopping for high priced bottles of wine. On the other hand, respect to him for knowing what to look for in a good wine, but more than a bit incongruous to have someone like Hawley lecture you about the attributes of a real man’s man.

    You have to love modern conservatives, lecturing us liberals about being real men while pics of them performing a metrosexual action are easy to find on the internet, or they are fleeing to Belarus, because, you know, real men to flee to Belarus.

    Life is so strange nowadays.

  41. Sleeping Dog says:

    Tasseled loafers wasn’t what Merle Haggard had in mind as manly footwear.

  42. Jen says:

    @Sleeping Dog: Agreed. And what’s really interesting is the stuff that is leaking out now–apparently, Sununu didn’t bother telling McConnell or the NRSC what he’d decided. Fascinating.

  43. Michael Reynolds says:

    Who flees to Belarus? What happened to Brazil?

  44. Kathy says:

    On the day the Four Seasons Press Conference*, somewhere in a federal penitentiary, a small-time fraudster must have pointed to the TV and asked a scary, big-time mafioso “You were convicted by that guy? Really?”

    *That does sound better than the Press Gaggle at the Dildo Shop Parking Lot.

  45. CSK says:

    @Michael Reynolds:
    His first choice seems to have been Ukraine, but he didn’t care for the surveillance he claimed he was subjected to there. So he entered Belarus illegally.

  46. KM says:

    @Michael Reynolds:
    Brazil is full of… *cough* those people. Belarus is near and dear to the land of autocrats whining the decadent West isn’t manly enough and plenty of pale faces willing to listen to them whine about how ‘Merica has fallen. Wait till they find out there’s no 1A or 2A so they can’t just shoot off their mouth or favorite toys…..

  47. CSK says:

    Yes; the Slavic countries appear to have become the Promised Land for white nationalists.

  48. Sleeping Dog says:


    It appears he never seriously considered running, but held his options open till reaching a point where he needed to make an announcement. The point he made about being effective and a service to New Hampshire is the antithesis of being a foot solider in Moscow Mitch’s caucus.

    While he endorsed TFG last fall, he did everything possible to keep distance from him, but not antagonize him. Running for senate, the pressure to be a trump bobo would be enormous. Waiting to 26 gives R’s a chance to flush trump from the system and move to giving him lip service.

    Now it seems the R pros are turning to Kelly Ayotte, who probably should be thinking WTF? You treated me like stale bread in your pursuit of your Bro John, now you want me to save the party?

    I have no idea what she is doing now and less insight into her thinking, but she struck me as the type of senator that resembles a lot of the R’s who are retiring, rather than the ones that are seeking office.

  49. inhumans99 says:


    Yeah…any country fairly close to Russia, conservatives Motherland, is where all the manly 01/06/21 insurrectioni…I mean, tourists, will want to end up at as they flee America’s shores for what they see as a brighter future in another country.

  50. Kathy says:


    So, real men are willing useful idiots? I don’t think that’s what the GQP had in mind.

    It’s a good deal for Lukashenko. Petty propaganda points aside, he can always threaten to send them back if Biden doesn’t cough up some foreign aid money.

  51. flat earth luddite says:

    Now for the thought of the… something. With a giant h/t to Cracker for pointing this one out to me:

    The Seattle Times and AARP is featuring a free, online lecture series. The one that has me banging my head and howling is:

    Eight Books that Changed the World
    “This presentation about eight fascinating works, like Homer’s Odyssey & Dante’s Divine Comedy, help us understand some of the most pressing concerns today, including the nature of religious faith, questions of personal identity, even the quest for the American Dream.”

    Joseph Luzzi of Bard College is going to cover ALL of this in only an hour? Werp???

  52. CSK says:

    @Sleeping Dog:
    Ayotte is serving on a number of corporate boards now.

    The MAGAs have hated her guts ever since she told Trump to drop out of the race after the “grab ’em by the pussy” incident, and then compounded the felony by saying that she refused to vote for him. Trump of course claimed that she was desperate for a job in his administration, but that he spurned her entreaties. Yeah, right.

    I don’t know if being loathed by the Trumpkins would present that big a problem for her in NH.

  53. flat earth luddite says:

    @flat earth luddite:
    But wait, there’s more:

    from today’s Telegraph ‘America will need Margaret Thatcher’s conviction to clean up the mess left by Joe Biden’ from noted statesperson Nikki Haley

    To laugh, or to cry? Damnit, I just can’t decide! Curse you chemo-brain!

  54. Mu Yixiao says:

    Follow up on the Doctor thing.

    So… I went in this morning (losing half a day of work) to get the steroid shot that Doctor Dismissive insisted on.

    I was taken into a room by a 12-year-old boy who said he was a “fellow” (Duh. It was obvious he wasn’t a gal. Why do kids insist on telling your their gender right off the bat?). There was an attractive but aloof gal with an ultra-sound machine. The “young fellow” proceeded to run through a prepared script–which must have been very important, because he did the entire thing very rapidly while staring me in the eyes).

    The hot doc told me to strip to the waist and get on the bed… and then did absolutely nothing sexy (I guess my insurance isn’t that good). They ultrasounded my shoulder–which is apparently made up of thin squiggly lines–and informed the that I’m under-endowed (in the bicep tendon sheath department).

    The middle-schooler then proceeded to shove two different needles into my arm while being directed with highly technical terms such as “more towards his feet” and “no, the other way”. A minute later, they ripped off the “sterile placemat” (and more than a little chest hair), let me know it’ll start hurting again, and sent me on my way.

    In all the instructions, they failed to tell me that the anesthetic they injected me with would spread out a bit and leave me just >that much< numb on my cheek and lower lip.

    I seemed to remember "playing doctor" being more fun. Must be a case of nostalgia and my failing memory.

  55. CSK says:

    The Jan. 6 committee has subpoenaed Stephen Miller, Kayleigh McEnany, and eight other of Trump’s minions.

  56. dazedandconfused says:

    Evan Newmann seems to have a thing about the color orange…

    Jan. 6 wasn’t the first time Neumann took part in a revolt over an election. US authorities, citing Neumann’s LinkedIn page, said he participated in Ukraine’s 2004 Orange Revolution.


  57. CSK says:

    He is a busy fellow, isn’t he? What’s his job–professional insurrectionist?

  58. wr says:

    @OzarkHillbilly: “Hawley countered that he wants “a revival of strong and healthy manhood in America. We need men who will shoulder responsibility, men who will start and provide for families, men who will enter the covenant of marriage and then honor it.””

    And then crawled off to spend an hour licking the ass of serial adulterer Donald Trump, who has never taken responsibility for anything.

  59. dazedandconfused says:


    There’s no separating politics from culture as politics is people, and people cling strongly to culture. Fight to the death for it, bet the farm. There are leftists who seek the power of the state to enforce their cultural norms too.

  60. wr says:

    @flat earth luddite: “from today’s Telegraph ‘America will need Margaret Thatcher’s conviction”

    I’ve long thought that what Britain needed was Thatcher’s conviction, followed by a lengthy prison sentence. Could have sent Tony Blair along to keep her company.

  61. Mister Bluster says:

    @Mu Yixiao:..“playing doctor”..
    There were at least 3 or 4 of us neighborhood kids in my basement playing doctor when I was in grade school (4th-5th ?). One of the girls would lie on her back on a table and I would pull a doll out from under her dress to deliver the baby. When my parents found out they were not amused and told me to stop doing that.
    None of us could figure out why.

  62. wr says:

    @CSK: “The Jan. 6 committee has subpoenaed Stephen Miller, Kayleigh McEnany, and eight other of Trump’s minions.”

    Great. They’ll refuse to show up, Congress will send a complaint to the justice department, and in 2073 Merrick Garland will decide to do something about it.

  63. JohnSF says:

    Speaking of refugees in Belarus:
    At the same time Belarus is currently acting a transit route for people moving to the West.
    The Belarus-Poland border is a bit tense at the moment.
    Minsk and Moscow both love the politics of performative trollery.
    But this could easily become very dangerous indeed.

    Lithuania has declared a state of emergency in its border region with Belarus; Poland has moved 17,000 police and 11,000 troops up to to the frontier zone.

    Poland has stated it believes Putin is generating the crisis.

    The EU alleges that migrants are being encouraged to transit to Belarus, then being compelled to move to the border areas and penned there by Belarus to compel them to attempt to force their way over the frontiers.

  64. Kylopod says:


    There’s no separating politics from culture as politics is people, and people cling strongly to culture. Fight to the death for it, bet the farm. There are leftists who seek the power of the state to enforce their cultural norms too.

    There’s a clear difference between fighting cultural battles through concrete changes (e.g. antidiscrimination laws, police reform, even non-policy matters such as representation in media) and bellyaching about Big Bird and “Happy Holidays.”

  65. Sleeping Dog says:


    In 2020, the preferred R party pro candidate, a retired General, lost the primary to a FG endorsed crazy who got crushed. The General had announced he is seeking the party nod, before the Sununu decision. That he lost is 2020 is an indication that TFG carries enough weight in the primary to deny Ayotte. A change for 22 is that the primary is now a closed primary and you need to be a registered R to vote in it. Previously, an independent could ask for the party ballot for the primary that he/she wanted to participate in. That didn’t effect the voters registration status if they informed election officials after voting that they wanted to remain an independent.

    The current legislature changed that because the mouth breathers believed it moderated the type of candidate that got the nominee.

    So I do believe that getting the nomination could be difficult for Ayotte, particularly if the trumpers coalesced around one candidate and TFG endorsed.

  66. CSK says:

    Trump is the polar opposite of Hawley’s definition of a man.
    I was afraid someone would say that. Actually, it was my first thought: Will Garland actually do anything?
    @Sleeping Dog:
    And I was afraid you’d say that.

  67. Kathy says:

    Wednesday Nov. 10th marks the start of The Good Weekend (El Buen Fin), which is kind of Mexico’s version of Black Friday in the US.

    Shoppers are kind of getting wise to it. Sure, there are a few real bargains to be had (aka loss leaders), but most things are just promoted as though they were great deals (the greatest deal ever), not actually discounted.

    Since I still need a TV, I expect I’ll look around and see if a real discounted deal turns up. I doubt it. most likely the real good deals will come if inventory needs to be cleared pre-Xmas season (here it starts around Dec. 12*), and for certain after January 6th, 2022.

    Speaking of TV, Dune still isn’t on HBO Prime, but the trailer is up in the coming soon section. Meantime they did release one season of the early 2000s animated Justice League, and two seasons of the animated Justice League Unlimited. New eps of Young Justice season 4 are out every Thursday.

    *Well, the massive shopping does. Supermarkets are already lousy with Xmas decorations.

  68. Mu Yixiao says:


    Meantime they did release one season of the early 2000s animated Justice League, and two seasons of the animated Justice League Unlimited.

    Great stuff–with an astounding voice cast. Check out the IMDB page on it, and you’ll be shocked at some of the names (Ed Asner as Granny Goodness??!!)

  69. Gustopher says:

    @Mu Yixiao:

    I was taken into a room by a 12-year-old boy who said he was a “fellow” (Duh. It was obvious he wasn’t a gal. Why do kids insist on telling your their gender right off the bat?).

    Good chance he was trans — trans guys tend to look younger, can often get misgendered, hence the desire to nip that in the bud.

    The correct etiquette is to give your own gender and pronouns in response, and if they are boring, just lie and spice things up. It makes them feel included. Don’t do the attack helicopter crap, because then they will know you are making fun of them, but something plausible but improbable that they will have to pretend to respect.

    You can be a demiboy-trending-towards-agender, and your pronouns could be they/them. You would make that young fellow so happy to get to use they/them pronouns for someone, and wouldn’t you like to make someone happy if it costs you nothing?

  70. Mu Yixiao says:


    I’m not sure if that’s dry humor in response to my dry humor or not. -_o

    I haven’t had my USDA allowance of David Mitchell in a couple months, so… y’know.

  71. Kathy says:

    @Mu Yixiao:

    I looked it up on IMDB when it first ran 🙂

    Asner also played Granny in the 90s Superman animated series. Creepy.

  72. KM says:

    @CSK @Mu Yixiao:
    When a Fellow isn’t a fellow that doesn’t automatically mean they’re fallow. Medical juniors may be Junior or not but also are they never Senior nor senior. Does it matter? Nah, they’re more concerned with getting some sleep and a sheepskin to care if they’re “jolly good” or not!

    …. I’ll let myself out now 🙂

  73. Sleeping Dog says:


    I bet the Germans have expressed concern.

  74. JohnSF says:

    @Sleeping Dog:
    German Foreign Minister Heiko Maas:

    “Lukashenko is the chief of a state-run network of transportation of illegal migrants,”

    German Interior Minister Horst Seehofer :

    “What is happening now [is] a hybrid threat…We want controlled migration to Europe, not politically organised migration.”

    Also urged the EU to help Poland cope with the surge in migrants (which is interesting olive branch, seeing Poland and EU authorities + “west EU” states have been having a serious political dispute lately)

    “Poland or Germany can’t handle this alone. We must help the Polish government secure their external border. This would actually be the task of the European Commission. I’m now appealing to them to take action.”

    EU President Ursula von der Leyen has called for further sanctions to be imposed on Belarus.

    Some more quotes from a Daily Mail article (I don’t usually use the DM as a source, but in this instance all the quotes seem correct form other resources, and are all in one place so, an exception…):
    NATO official (unnamed):

    ‘a hybrid tactic’ … ‘NATO stands ready to further assist our allies, and maintain safety and security in the region’.

    Poland’s ambassador to the UN Krzysztof Szczerski:

    “Due to the situation on the eastern border of Poland, I am in contact with the ambassadors of the USA, Great Britain, France, Ireland and Estonia to the United Nations in New York”

    Polish spokesman Piotr Muller:

    “We expect that there may be an escalation of this type of action on the Polish border in the near future, which will be of an armed nature”

    I’ve seen some tweets (forgot to bookmark, and reliability uncertain) suggesting that some putative “migrants” engaged in fence cutting etc are in fact Belarus security personnel.

    Former EU Council President and Polish opposition party leader Donald Tusk:

    “…very concerned about what is happening today and what will probably happen in the hours to come on our eastern border.”
    “Our relations with our eastern neighbour are about to deteriorate even further”
    “What is most important is perhaps to consider whether we should trigger Nato’s Article 4 if our border is under direct threat from physical pressure with Belarusian involvement, and I mean Belarusian state services.”

    This could get very nasty indeed very quickly.

  75. Kathy says:

    For future reference, this is what fraudulent election looks like

    Choice quote: “Critics, however, said the election, which followed a punishing six-month crackdown on Nicaragua’s fractured opposition in which all of Ortega’s main challengers were detained, was a sham.”

  76. Gustopher says:

    @Kathy: Who else could voice Granny Goodness, though?

    Gillbert Gottfried was already the voice of Mr. Mxyzptlk, and he’s the only other person I can see doing it.

  77. JohnSF says:

    Meanwhile, true to form, Russia turns the trolling up to 11.

    Russia’s foreign minister Sergei Lavrov suggested that the EU should provide financial assistance to Belarus to encourage it to stop the surge in migrants, as with the EU deal with Turkey during the 2015 migrant crisis.
    And that Europe had a responsibility to accept the migrants:

    “They don’t want to stay in Belarus, they want to go to Europe, that same Europe that has been advertising and promoting its way of life for may years. You need to answer for your own words and deeds,”

    Press Secretary for the President of Russia Dmitry Peskov:
    Belarusian forces were treating the migrants “very responsibly” and the crisis was blowback from western interventionist policy in the Middle East.

    The Kremlin earlier today:

    …concerned by events on the Belarus-Poland border and praised specialists from its close ally Belarus for what it said was their responsible work there.

    One of these days Moscow may just troll-lol-a-lol its merry way into something really, really unpleasant for all concerned. For DEFCON values of unpleasant.

  78. Gustopher says:

    @Mu Yixiao: I think my response works whether you are dryly joking or mildly exasperated.

    And I’m convinced that kid has been careful to make sure everyone knows his gender and pronouns and all that for so long, and had so many middle aged eyes rolled at him that having someone insist on being referred to as they/them would make his day and make it all seem worthwhile.

    It would be a kindness. You just have to genuinely mean it as a kindness, even if you’re just lying to kid.

    It’s like asking a kid what their favorite dinosaur is, and then saying that’s your favorite dinosaur too. Sure, your favorite is really a Sharovipteryx (wings on the back legs!) but for that kid, you’re willing to let it be a T-Rex and make a few roaring sounds.

  79. Kathy says:


    Sharovipteryx (wings on the back legs!)

    That’s ok. What’s amazing is the forelegs form a canard. I’d never seen one in a living being.

    As to Granny Goodness, she’s been played by other actors in series like Young Justice. I still prefer Ed Asner in that role, as well as Dana Delaney as Lois Lane.

  80. dazedandconfused says:


    Merrick may be wrestling with the issue of criminal prosecutions and potential witnesses and perps giving public statements before Congress. Something which brought this to mind is this breaking news that Pence and his staff’s access badges appear to have been de-activated by someone while the 1/6 assault was taking place.


    We may have only begun to sound the depths of the rabbit hole. Who should be testifying before Congress and who should be subject to criminal investigation while fully lawyered up is still unclear. Certainly Congress is not the correct venue for someone who conducted a conspiracy to make Pence especially vulnerable to the crowd that was chanting for his lynching, at least not initially. This approaches the level of attempted homicide on the course of conducting a coup.

    IOW, there might be a big time criminal case happening behind the scenes at Justice, and Merrick may need more than a couple weeks to sort this out. One does not drag a Ted Bundy before congress to kick off an investigation.

  81. Kathy says:

    Short piece on NPR about tapes of the NRA leadership right after the Columbine mass shooting.

  82. Gustopher says:

    @Kathy: There’s only a single known fossil of Sharovipteryx! If there were intelligent creatures at the time, we would assume it was the result of a prank or hoax of some kind.

    But there he (or she) is, in full glory, really well preserved, wing imprints and all.

  83. gVOR08 says:


    IOW, there might be a big time criminal case happening behind the scenes at Justice, and Merrick may need more than a couple weeks to sort this out. One does not drag a Ted Bundy before congress to kick off an investigation.

    However if there’s a conspiracy one starts indicting small fish early. So maybe there’s nothing going on behind the scenes because DOJ expects the GOPs to take back Congress in the mid-terms and don’t want to antagonize them. However unlikely my hypothetical, the available evidence (none) of DOJ action a year after the election and ten months after 1/6 would favor mine.

  84. Mu Yixiao says:


    And I’m convinced that kid has been careful to make sure everyone knows his gender and pronouns and all that for so long,

    And the “whoosh” goes to you!

    It was a man in his mid-to-late twenties.

    The “12-year-old” comment was “Gods, I’m getting old; doctors who’ve gone through years of med school look like kids to me”.

    And he’s a ffellow:

    A Fellowship is the period of medical training, in the United States and Canada, that a physician, dentist, or veterinarian may undertake after completing a specialty training program (residency). During this time (usually more than one year), the physician is known as a fellow. Fellows are capable of acting as an attending physician or a consultant physician in the specialist field in which they were trained, such as Internal Medicine or Pediatrics.

    The “he’s a fellow, not a gal” comment was deliberate snark at the over-hyped lthe wisdom of David Mitchelleftist sensitivity regarding gender identity. And you grabbed on to it. You didn’t look at the context of the post (clearly comedic–note the “small dick” joke), nor did you take the time to question what a “fellow” is in this context.

    Unbunch your panties, take a breather, and learn to understand–if not grok–the wisdom of David Mitchell.

    (I’ll bet Michael Reyolds understood the humor).

  85. gVOR08 says:

    @dazedandconfused: @gVOR08: Lawrence Tribe was just on Lawrence O’Donnell’s show. He said Garland may have been holding up pursuing Steve Bannon’s congressional subpoena because there are old OLC opinions* saying they shouldn’t pursue congressional subpoenas if Presidential Privilege is at issue. Tribe said today’s decision on TFG’s privilege claim should put an end to any idea legitimate privilege is at issue with Bannon and there’s no reason Garland shouldn’t proceed. Let’s see.

    * IANAL, but I’ve always been told you can pay a lawyer to give you whatever opinion you want. There were accounts that the guy wrote the opinion that a sitting prez can’t be indicted (the basis for Mueller’s non-report) asked the AG at the time what he wanted. Why are these DOJ opinions treated as sacred writ?

  86. Just nutha ignint cracker says:

    @Mu Yixiao: Interesting! I knew (or at least suspected) what he meant by being a fellow and assumed that maybe you didn’t–being from a small town and all. I missed the snark completely! Maybe my snark meter needs adjusting–or the snark was too small to be picked up on the sensor. In any event, you got your “put the other guy in his place” shot in, so well done, Boomer.

  87. Gustopher says:

    @Mu Yixiao: I saw the feeble attempt to pair the “fellow” with your usual “curse those progressive kids and their woke ways”, and was pretty sure only the latter was really meant. The rest was just window dressings.

    The humor of the former was spread so thin as to no longer be humor, while the swat at the youngsters being so forward with their gender was so clear… I got your “joke”, so no “whoosh” — I just thought you were being an asshole, covering it with a pale attempt at humor or not.

  88. dazedandconfused says:


    The subpoenas were just issued.

    Well, the timing of the leak about Pence and his staff’s badges favors mine. Somebody told those people not to talk about it, and as their asses were placed at risk, the most likely reason is LE asked them to keep it quiet while they investigate.