Casual Friday Forum

Steven L. Taylor
About Steven L. Taylor
Steven L. Taylor is a Professor of Political Science and a College of Arts and Sciences Dean. His main areas of expertise include parties, elections, and the institutional design of democracies. His most recent book is the co-authored A Different Democracy: American Government in a 31-Country Perspective. He earned his Ph.D. from the University of Texas and his BA from the University of California, Irvine. He has been blogging since 2003 (originally at the now defunct Poliblog). Follow Steven on Twitter


  1. Bill says:

    The Florida headline of the day-

    Palm Beach County schools report first COVID-positive students

    Note- Palm Beach County schools re-opened on Monday

  2. Bill says:
  3. OzarkHillbilly says:

    I’ve read most of the headlines today and just said “Fuck it, I can’t deal with it today.” But this bit of froth caught my eye:

    “I’m not a fan of hers,” the president told reporters at a White House press briefing. “I would say this – and she probably has heard that – I wish a lot of luck to Harry, because he’s going to need it.”

    It came after the Duke and Duchess of Sussex urged people in a video clip for Time magazine to “reject hate speech” in the 3 November election. Harry, who is not eligible to vote in the US, said: “As we approach this November, it’s vital that we reject hate speech, misinformation and online negativity.” Meghan, who was born in California and who described the event as “the most important election of our lifetime”, said: “When we vote, our values are put into action, our voices are heard.”

    Although the couple did not mention Trump in the clip, or his election rival, Joe Biden, many have interpreted their comments as an effective endorsement of the Democratic candidate.

    Funny how trump just can’t help himself and has to say the most idiotic, misogynistic thing possible.

  4. OzarkHillbilly says:

    @Bill: I am shocked, shocked I tell you.

  5. OzarkHillbilly says:

    @Bill: I knew it:

    On Sept. 2, Iowa OSHA administrator Russell Perry approved a settlement with the company that reduced the proposed penalties from $1,914 to a $957 fine.

    Regulatory capture at it’s finest. They never pay the fines without appealing them first and they always get them reduced. No matter how inconsequential the amount of money might at first be, and it’s always inconsequential.

    It’s almost like our lives have no real value.

  6. OzarkHillbilly says:

    COVID-DENIER Conspiracy theorist Trump supporter Tony Tenpenny who dismissed coronavirus as ‘socialist’ hoax is killed by disease

    Vice Mayor Jim Shulman shared that Tenpenny had been hospitalized for almost a month after contracting the disease. He had been placed on a ventilator in early September.

    “I am always saddened when I learn of the death of a former elected official. My thoughts and prayers are with his family as they face this loss,” Shulman said.

    However, the rest of you plebes can’t die soon enough.

  7. Scott says:


    Amateurs. Here’s Texas numbers. Updated every Wednesday.

    Students: 1212 last week. Staff: 660. Weeks results, not cumulative results.

    None in my wife’s school so far.

  8. de stijl says:

    One of the coolest things I have ever seen is Mexrrisey Estuvo Bien.

    It is Mex pop version of Morrissey’s Suedehead.

    Yes, Morrissey is cranky wanker with shitty politics, but. I still love his old stuff with a big caveat.

    Mexrrissey just goes for the joy and melancholy in the song.

    It is astonishing.

  9. MarkedMan says:

    I tend to think that Senators have at least a modicum of political savvy, but Susan Collins expressing “concerns” about Trump refusing to step down has me rethinking that. It plays directly into the negative stereotype people have of her, that she is always concerned” but never actually does anything about her concerns.

  10. OzarkHillbilly says:

    @MarkedMan: It’s a habit with her. Has the added benefit of not having to think.

  11. de stijl says:


    We had a major screw up here where new cases were under-reported because test results got flagged to admission date rather than result date.

    So it backloaded positive results. So when we were actually trending up the charts we drastically under-reported new cases. Results were flawed.

    I would have fired that idiot in a second. That is a separate instance, you fool. That is a new datetime!

    Not just me, but anyone. You capture a new column change with a datetime. It’s 101 stuff.

    Perhaps the flaw was manufactured.

    Not that it would have mattered. The Governor is a Trump licking sycophant who tried to tell local municipalities they did not have the authority to enact and enforce local laws over masks and shutdowns. She lost in court.

    Whatever the numbers were she was hellbent on re-opening asap. Her problem was that many did not want to because they were sane and had sane insurers.

    A petty person would delight in her defeat and disgrace. That petty person will have to wait two years.

    I can be petty for two years. No prob.

  12. mattbernius says:

    @de stijl:
    The Michael Pena monologue about Morrissey in “Ant Man and the Wasp” including a Morrissey votive candle (if I remember correctly) always makes me giggle when I think about it.

    Luis : Oh, my abuelita had a jukebox in the restaurant! Yeah, only played Morrissey. And if anybody ever complained, she’d be like “Oh, ¿no te gusta Moz”. You know, Chicanos we call him “Moz”. “Then, ¡adiós!”. What can I say? You know, we relate to this melancholy ballads. You know?

    And yes, oof his politics…

  13. mattbernius says:

    For a bit of good news, yesterday Michigan became the third state in the nation to pass Clean Slate Legislation that will automatically clear* certain felonies and misdemeanors from someone’s criminal record after they have met all conditions and a certain amount of time has passed.

    Most people think that, like a driver’s record, arrests (non-convictions) and convictions disappear of someone’s record after a certain amount of time. That isn’t the case and all of that will show up on background checks (for licensing, employment, housing, eduction, firearms, etc).

    Most states offer a petition based process to clear things. But that’s expensive, difficult to navigate, and takes a lot of time (especially in times like these when civil courts essentially stopped operation for months).

    MI now joins Pennsylvania and Utah as states that will automatically clear certain charges as soon as they are eligible. Even better, MI is the first state to include felonies in that automatic clearing process! This is especially important now as system-impacted folks (both with convictions and non-convictions) tend to be the last hired and first fired in times like these.

    * – “Clear” in this case means hid from thrid party background checks. Someone who has gotten something clear can (usually) say they were never charged or convicted. However, the records are still retained and visible to Law Enforcement in most States. Only a handful of states currently destroy all records of some’s interaction with Law Enforcement (and that’s often for a very small subset of offenses).

  14. CSK says:

    Hey, Trump’s a no-bullshit kind of guy who tells it like it is, you know? He’s a real man–a misogynist. Look at that hottie he’s married to. You think she wouldn’t be with a real man?

  15. CSK says:

    Has the edit function vanished forever?

  16. Bill says:


    Students: 1212 last week. Staff: 660. Weeks results, not cumulative results.

    None in my wife’s school so far.

    That’s good to hear.

    I live about 1/8th to 3/16th of a mile from a elementary school. It is across the street and across a parking lot (not used by the school) and a ballfield. When classes are in session, I regularly hear the school PA system.

  17. de stijl says:


    In a just world Michael Pena would be bigger than Pitt.

    I would pay good money to see Pena in WW Z 2.

    No offense to Ruth Negga and Daniella Kurtesz who both killed it.

    Dude is so crazy talented.

  18. Bob@Youngstown says:

    Consider how the different discussion of the Breonna Taylor killing would be if the Louisville Police were equipped with and required to employ body cameras.
    Intuitively, the police knew that there would be a citizen/police interaction. Police knew in a advance that that interaction had a significant likelihood of conflict when they came equipped with a battering ram.
    It is really difficult for one to believe that the Metro Police can’t afford, at minimum, a limited number of body cameras to be used where there are surprise warrants to be served.
    That leads me to conclude that the Metro Police don’t want to have their actions documented. Why would that be ?

  19. OzarkHillbilly says:

    @CSK: I have seen it a few times this AM. My “big deal” is my latest comment always, and I do mean always, reappears in the comment box after I post, but the bold, italics, link, quote buttons don’t. If I refresh the page the buttons reappear and then I can delete my previous comment from the box. But I have to do it in that order because my previous comment reappears every time I refresh the page.

    First world, white people’s problems.

    ETA: refreshing the page brought the edit function up this time, but not always.

  20. Mikey says:

    @de stijl:

    Yes, Morrissey is cranky wanker with shitty politics, but. I still love his old stuff with a big caveat.

    I don’t really care all that much for Morrissey’s solo stuff, but The Smiths…man, so good. And Johnny Marr is a phenomenon unto himself.

  21. Liberal Capitalist says:


    For a bit of good news, yesterday Michigan became the third state in the nation to pass Clean Slate Legislation that will automatically clear* certain felonies and misdemeanors from someone’s criminal record after they have met all conditions and a certain amount of time has passed.

    That makes me smile.

    When I went to get my Global Entry / TSA precheck many years ago when the program first started, I ended up going to the in-person interview in TN (I think it was in TN, as I was on the road and they had slots available).

    Sitting there, in business attire, the interview was mundane. They do a background check, you get to answer some questions.

    The last one was have you ever been convicted ofd a crime / been to jail. I said “Absolutely! You don’t grow up in Detroit without going to jail.” I laughed. The TSA perspon looked concerned and surprised.

    I was approved.

  22. OzarkHillbilly says:

    @Liberal Capitalist: “Absolutely! You don’t grow up in Detroit without going to jail.”

    It’s at least 3 times for me. It’s kinda hard to keep them straight. I once saw 3 jails in one night. The jail cell memories run together.

  23. MarkedMan says:

    @CSK: When I refresh the page I get the edit function

  24. MarkedMan says:

    @de stijl: Ruth Negga. “Loving” and “Preacher”. Couldn’t be more dissimilar characters, straight drama vs. dark (very dark) comedy. Same actress. Hard to believe.

  25. de stijl says:


    Anglos call him Moz too.

    Reynlods brought up a point dunno six month to a year ago where we should only judge art by the art and ignore the artist.

    It is a perfectly valid point and do not judge him at all for saying so. His take is perhaps actually probably more rational than mine.

    Artists whose stuff I like and admire that explicitly are going down a wrong path… I will call that out.

    So how do I now react to that work now?

    It is a moral quandry. I admit I give some more leniency than others although Quentin Tarantino is testing my last goddamned nerve.

    Morrissey is now basically fascist adjacent. He was always a judgey fella. Tarantino sports about the N word way too liberally.

    QT may be trying to make a point about denigration in a ham fisted ott way. Moz is clearly a Nazi.

    But when I am in a mood I love Morrissey – it is how I found Mexrrissey for Thor’s sake, just goofing around listening to covers.

    And a QT movie soothes the aggro part of my soul.

    Should I?

    I am very conflicted.

    I give credit unearned and condemn undeserved.

    My initial take – too absolute.

    Reynolds’ take was also too absolute.

    Context. Judge a person. Judge a work of creativity. It is not simple.

    I have no rule of thumb that fits. I like taxonomy.

  26. CSK says:

    @OzarkHillbilly: @MarkedMan:
    Refreshing the page doesn’t seem to work for me. I had it for a while yesterday morning, first in the five minute mode and then back to the fifteen minute mode, very briefly. Then…nothing.

    ETA: Whoops, I refreshed just now…and it appeared! Thanks for the tip.

  27. Michael Cain says:

    Sen. Rick Scott (R-FL) has proposed (but not yet introduced) legislation that would outlaw vote by mail as practiced in most of the western states. All of at least AZ, CA, CO, HI, MT, OR, UT, and WA would have to very substantially change their systems in order to conform. Other western states would be affected to a lesser degree.

  28. Mikey says:

    @Michael Cain: There are a LOT of military members who have Florida listed as their home of record and vote absentee. This proposal, if enacted, would disenfranchise many thousands of them.

    Of course, we should all know by now that GOP “support” for our military is largely performative bullshit, but still, wow.

  29. Sleeping Dog says:

    @Michael Cain:

    I refer you to <a href="@HarvardLaw92:”>HL92’s post on the SC thread.

  30. Sleeping Dog says:
  31. de stijl says:


    I truly appreciate Johnny Marr, but I appreciate Moz solo over The Smiths. I tried. Hard.

    But, old Morrissey. Viva Hate. Bona Drag. That tickles my brain like it does Pena’s abuela mentioned above.

    Different takes.

    Dude is now basically a Nazi. Which makes me really sad.

    Thankfully, Paul Westerberg and Paul Weller did not become Nazis.

    In retrospect, I have more love for The Replacements oeuvre before Westerberg’s solo by a smidge. But, I prefer Weller’s post Jam stuff. Going Underground is a good counter- argument, but Walls Come Tumbling Down may be better.

  32. Kingdaddy says:

    If only a third of what this analysis of the Kentucky attorney general’s press conference is correct, there are still plenty of reasons to be royally pissed:

  33. Kingdaddy says:

    Word of advice: if you want a safe, socially distanced way to have fun with your grandkids, outdoor hide and seek is practically designed for that requirement.

  34. JohnMcC says:

    I see from Rawstory linking to a TPM Muckracker story that the Senate Homeland Security Committee report on Burisma and Hunter Biden…. (whew!)….that one of the witnesses implicated Mr Rick Perry in corrupting the Ukrainian gov’t and their natural gas utility.

    “Hochenstein told the committee that former Energy Sec’t Rick Perry ‘inappropriately pressured the Ukrainian Government’ to place a Houston-based businessman Robert Bensch on the board of Naftogaz, while other DOE officials pressed Kyiv to sign an agreement with ‘a private business entity connected to Mr Bensch’….”

    Shocking! I tell you! Shocking!

  35. Jon says:

    @de stijl:

    Reynlods brought up a point dunno six month to a year ago where we should only judge art by the art and ignore the artist.

    That’s know as The Death of the Author. Lindsay Ellis has an interesting video about it, as well as a JK Rowling-specific follow up.

  36. de stijl says:


    Ruth Negga is bae.

    Especially on Preacher where she got to be super bad-ass.

    I did not mention Mirielle Enos who had the shitty role as “Mom – Wife” in WW Z.

    She was bonkers good in The Killing as was Joel Kinnaman. Why did that show fail? Too dark maybe. I loved it.

  37. de stijl says:


    I will definitely click, but I need a bit to try to reconcile good art to bad artist.

    Thinking about David Mamet makes me anxious.

    Give it a half hour.

  38. MarkedMan says:

    Was just at this useful site playing around with different ways to present the latest Covid data. Looking at the Trump states vs. the functioning states is eye opening. The US Northeast is actually doing really well compared to other countries. Really well. The West and Midwest is more in line with world trends. But the hardcore Trump states, the South, is a fricking disaster. The idea that these barely functioning clustersf*cks have completely coopted one of our two major parties and thereby brought the US down to their level of ignorance and disfunction is truly tragic.

  39. wr says:

    @de stijl: “I prefer Weller’s post Jam stuff. Going Underground is a good counter- argument, but Walls Come Tumbling Down may be better.”

    And that’s just The Style Council, a brief blip in his career before he launched his thirty year (and counting) solo career, with dozens of great albums and constant experimentation. Two of my faves:

  40. JKB says:

    You won’t like it, but this new combined campaign by Rep Dan Crenshaw is something new in political ads.

  41. wr says:

    @de stijl: “She was bonkers good in The Killing as was Joel Kinnaman. Why did that show fail? Too dark maybe. I loved it.”

    It ran for three seasons on AMC and a (shorter) fourth on Netflix. We should all fail so badly!

  42. MarkedMan says:

    This is for James: I’m curious about where you are getting your news. This isn’t a slam and I truly am curious, because in the last few days you’ve made comments about the history of Puerto Rican statehood votes as well as the circumstances of the Breonna Tayler shooting that were 180 degrees incorrect, but you seemed very sure of them. (Here’s a good summary of everything that is wrong with the DA’s whitewashing of the Breonna Taylor timeline.)

    I’m asking because I wonder if you get much news from Twitter. I believe that forum is a net negative for those who want to be informed.

  43. wr says:

    @JKB: Don’t like it? I haven’t laughed this hard in ages.

    Particularly loved Crenshaw parachuting down and landing like Iron Man.

    What’s the message of this ad? Oh, yes: “We have absolutely no issues to run on, so we’re going to play superhero for four minutes because yes, our voters really are this stupid.”

  44. de stijl says:

    Tous les Matin du le Monde.

    Not a great movie, but between 12:45 and 9 pm that day a maybe relationship went to definitely. And she was super cool. We had good years together.

    Plus, it introduced me to Marin Marais who I listen to daily.

    Depardieu is clearly a pig. But it does harm the art too much.

    George Miller is one of my favorite film directors of all time. Mel Gibson I despise. I cannot bear to see him or hear his voice after the audio came out. I hate him.

    I literally cannot watch The Road Warrior anymore. Gibson makes me ill. That used to be a top 5 movie. Now, I cannot watch it.

    Gibson was just an actor. He did not write. He barely spoke. Still, I cannot.

    Thank the gods for Fury Road and Tom Hardy and Charlize Theron. Best movie last decade.

    What differentiates the two?

    I could rewatch Tous les Matin du le Monde no prob although I would dislike seeing Depardieu and flick a finger at him when was on screen.

    But I cannot watch The Road Warrior. I tried. I almost vomited in disgust. And I got raging angry. I had to stop.

    These were not even writers or directors but actors. I am in the kindergarten portion of the shallow end of the pool of this debate.

    Okay. I’ll click.

  45. inhumans99 says:


    Matt, this comment of yours is why I am not as freaked out by that The Atlantic article that got everyone in a tizzy earlier this week. Positives like what you just commented on would not be happening if Trump was indeed our strong-man/dictator/President for life, or if folks in the know knew he was about to become this individual.

    So many folks seem to have glossed over the part of the article that notes that Trump has put in none of the work to truly invalidate/steal the election. Sure, he has put in some work but like everything else he has done he does not bother to cross the t’s and dot the i’s instead leaving it to someone else (the courts, Barr, etc.) to try and enact his agenda. Any good strongman will tell you cannot put in a half-assed effort to take over a country.

    Ahead of the election Trump would need to make sure a large contingent of the military was ready to immediately act on his orders (to crush ordinary folks, other military members who refused to follow his orders), which he has not done, he would need to guarantee himself a court victory (not just assuming the conservative Supremes would rule his way, as we have seen some “conservative” Supremes have sometimes joined with their liberal brethren and issued rulings that have annoyed the GOP, to put it mildly).

    He would also need guarantees from any Republican state legislatures that the fix is in (he does not have this guarantee), and Trump would need guarantees that anyone who hacked any electronic voting would make changes from D to R on the ballot instead of the reverse, again, he does not have this guarantee. He would also need to make sure that the majority of states had folks prepared to basically accidentally lose a ton of ballots sent in by mail so they could not be counted.

    I know I am pointing out water is wet to you, but seriously, when trying to get yourself installed as the ruler of a nation for life it is best not to take the lazy mans route to said victory.

    This is sincerely why I am not as stressed as I probably should be given Trump’s rhetoric, because Putin, Kim Jong, China’s President, the Saudi ruling family, Erdogan, etc., all these folks have the means to snap their fingers and tons of folks will be ready to put down any insurrection and break the will of the people.

    If Trump has to rely on the ruling of his replacement SC Justice who is not even on the bench yet to guarantee his re-election that tells me right now Trump is all bark and no bite. He needs to have all three branches of the military ready to act at the snap of his fingers to put down any attempted riots, etc.

    Trump is running out of time to put in place the mechanisms to attempt a coup and not leave the White House if Biden gets the electoral votes needed to become our next President.

  46. MarkedMan says:

    I know there is a death penalty for treason but we need to be at war. What are the crimes Trump could be charged with if he tried to utilize armed means to stay in office?

  47. de stijl says:


    Dude, look at my nym. Of course The Style Council.

    I have followed Weller since when til now. Walls Come Tumbling Down speaks to me hard.

    As to Westerberg, I have UNSATISFIED tattooed on my left forearm. Do you know the Grandpa Boy Mono album? That’s actually my hat on the cover. About 1/1,000th of that album is me. Maybe 1/10,000.

    Westerberg is insanely good at his job.

  48. dazedandconfused says:


    It may be his muddled mind’s view on the matter is that the Supreme Court will take the typical span of years to decide the case and he will be the defacto POTUS during that time. He has probably never heard of Bush v. Gore, or if he has, he thinks it’s a porn movie.

  49. HarvardLaw92 says:


    18 US 2383, possibly 18 US 2384 as well, along with a few others.

  50. Michael Reynolds says:

    Question for @de stijl: and others knowledgeable in music: where is Country Joe and the Fish? Where’s Creedence? For that matter, where’s NWA?

    We are years into the Trump madness now, economic decline and police killings, where are the protest songs? Why is it when I look for songs relevant to our rolling political and economic disaster all I find are 10 and 20 year-old punk songs, or occasionally slightly more current punk/punk adjacent songs?

    IOW, has there been any genuine protest song to break into the top 20 in, say, the last three years?

  51. flat earth luddite says:

    Hope she stays safe. I’m an old retired dude, working p/t at the local office supply megamart. Been on full schedule since February. So far, we haven’t had any employees sick. Knocking on wood…

  52. Jax says:

    @Michael Reynolds: Not sure if this ever got very popular, but I remember listening to it over and over right after Trump was elected.

  53. Gustopher says:

    @Michael Reynolds: There have been almost no protest songs in the top 20 in the past few decades.

    I think the current radio formats generally promote politically bland songs. Plus you have ClearChannel owning so many stations, but I think the blandness if baked in before that.

    Back in 2003, Neil Young’s album Living With War got no airplay anywhere, since there were literally no songs that were apolitical. Not even on the old-people classic rock radio stations.

    Radio stations are increasingly less important, but you’re likely to find the same pressures on Spotify and Youtube algorithms — something that pushes away half the audience is not going to get a lot of promotion.

  54. Kylopod says:

    @Michael Reynolds: You reminded me of the fact that during the Bush era, I was chronically dissatisfied with the protest music at the time. I found most of it pretentious and self-important. I was never quite sure why, as I did not have that feeling about the Vietnam-era protest music, which led to some really good songs (though I’ve never much cared for “Blowin’ in the Wind,” one of the most pretentious songs ever). I don’t think it’s a generational thing, either, as I was born in the late ’70s. It just seems like that’s when people forgot how to do good protest music. It could be that I got too old to appreciate the 21st-century stuff (the roll-around of the century is exactly the point when I began to lose interest in modern music, which may say more about me than it does about the music), though I’m about a generation younger than you and I did not grow up with any of the Vietnam-era stuff; I had to rediscover it later or hear it from my parents. Maybe it’s just that you can’t get much poetry out of “FU Bush/Trump.”

  55. Kathy says:


    Radio stations are increasingly less important, but you’re likely to find the same pressures on Spotify and Youtube algorithms — something that pushes away half the audience is not going to get a lot of promotion.

    I don’t know.

    if they can do that with music, surely they can do it with conspiracy, white supremacy, and other hate-filled and/or misinformation videos.

  56. Jon says:

    Lots of artists released, or re-released, protest songs in the wake of Trump’s election and in the years since. A Tribe Called Quest, Chicano Batman, Loudon Wainwright III, Carole King, Billy Bragg, and Neil Young to name but a few. It’s not a lack of songs but a lack of exposure *to* the songs. I don’t think it is a lack of airplay (or at least not entirely) so much as the way in which fans interact with the bands they like has changed dramatically over the last several years and radio is not necessarily the primary conduit for finding new music anymore.

  57. de stijl says:


    Jon, thanks!

    That was interesting and informative.

    Things I learned:

    Reynolds is strongly in the Death of The Author camp which strongly dissociates a creator from the work. Knowing anything about the author biases your reading of the text.

    I know I am a super messy compartmentalizer. I know 2020 Morrissey is a super shitty person but Suedehead is a song I still like. Had I not been dicking around on YT looking for Suedehead covers I would never have found Mexrrissey and their awesome cover of Everyday Is Like Sunday. Basically, I found the equivalent of fanfic I like while looking up JK Rowling.

    I must always be aware of their misdeeds and my relationship to that as a consumer / reader / listener and must reckon my own course. Screw this Death Of The Author bag which is not a way I can approach a work at all.

    That will never work for me. X is always written by Y. That is baked in. I have imdb on my homescreen if not background idle. I look up people 20 times a day easy. I always look up the lyrics if it good enough to repeat.

    I have zero rational basis to differentiate between Mel Gibson and Gerard Depardieu. And these are actors not writers or directors!

    But I do.

    I love George Miller. I assign no stain to him. Dude is blameless. You could not pay me to watch anything by Mamet. Nope!

    I know I am all over the map and perhaps the best taxonomical device is my stomach and conscience.

  58. charon says:

    If you strike at a king you must kill him.


    The consequences of a failed coup would not be as bad in our democracy as in a monarchy or dictatorship, but it would still not be good to be one of the plotters.

    So, here we have this stupid, lazy, personality disordered fellow shooting off his mouth about something he has not (because of his lack of capability and inclination) thought about very deeply.

    Now, some of his more cultish followers have chimed in (verbally) their support, and he has sycophants like Lindsey Graham pandering to him, and clowns like Ted Cruz burnishing their extremist credentials. This is just talk though, and talk is cheap.

    He may find, though, when it comes to suborning the election workers and election officials and secretaries of state and governors, these folks may just prefer to do their jobs the proper way. Improper behavior may not be all that appealing, and some jurists might have actual principles too.

    So I think this threat is overblown. Some problems and bad behavior will happen, but Biden has a legal team too, D’s are in no mood to just roll over for shenanigans.

  59. Kathy says:


    IMO the real problem is the lack of push back to Trump’s ravings among both his supporters and the GOP.

    It may be trump won’t carry through (has he ever?). But he’s opened the door for a more competent tyrant to take over in the future.

    The other thing I worry, is that the best defense against a right wing coup is a left wing coup that preempts it.

  60. Mister Bluster says:

    My personal protest song.
    If I’d have listened to my second mind…

  61. Grewgills says:

    @de stijl:
    My take on the artist vs art thing for objectionable artists focuses more narrowly on who I want to support. I don’t want to support certain artists for whatever reason, so I don’t buy their art and generally don’t listen/watch those artists on platforms that pay them.
    In my paradigm I wouldn’t listen to Morrissey on Spotify or buy any of his work, but if I already have a CD I can listen without giving him any more than I already have. You can borrow your friend’s Tarantino DVD without giving Tarantino any more support if you have an issue with him. If the artist is dead, they are well beyond directly supporting, so no issue there.

    PS I didn’t know till today that Morrissey progressed from emo wanker to emo fascist wanker

  62. flat earth luddite says:

    You’re right. Hate the ad. Hate the freaking targeting. Quadruple backflip on the hate that anyone spends this kind of money on advertising.

  63. EddieInCA says:

    @Michael Reynolds:

    I think Green Day’s video for “Wake Me Up When September Ends” is the last protest song I remember.

  64. flat earth luddite says:

    @wr: late add to above comment b/c edit feature not available to this disc level dweller this am. But I’m giggling about the idea of him thinking “wow, what a great idea! I’ll play a combination of Tony Stark and Nick Fury. My adolescents fantasy come true!”

  65. flat earth luddite says:

    I’m somewhat worried, but would worry more if he was smarter, or actually had competent staff.
    Still pondering my comment about Orangeade a few days ago, lazy/dumb in the command class of officers?

  66. de stijl says:

    @Michael Reynolds:

    That’s a good point.

    There really has been no blatant protest music that been big in the consciousness of the public at large since Reagan or Bush 41. Public Enemy.

    BLM rallies in 2020 doing 1989 (another number) PE. Actually that was Poppy Bush who in retrospect was pretty cool. Chuck D is the godfather.

    fka The Dixie Chicks now The Chicks got cancelled because of inter song banter in Britain in the mid aughts.

    A friend of mine, [I overstated that-a guy I met a few times] wrote their comeback. Dan Wilson from Semisonic. Not Ready To Make Nice.

    Problem was only the pop audience heard it. Got next to zero country radio play.

    And that was not a straight up protest song. It was a reaction to being cancelled by country radio. Black people are super puzzled by talk of The Chicks, Semisonic, and Dan Wilson. Who?

    I have been in a scene that pushed for change, but it was the type of I am here. See me. Acknowledge me. Maybe respect me.

    Even the protest songs of the late 60s were not I Hate LBJ (granting Country Joe).

    Most “protest” songs are about injustice and and acceptance.

    Fast Car is a brilliant song about the cycle of poverty and hopelessness and dependency and makes cry every time.

    Hard metal is more explicitly political think Rage Against The Machine, but is genre, as is political punk. Very little of that breaks through now.

    The audience is very stratified. And becoming more so. There almost zero overlap between people who watch the ACMs and the MTV Music Awards. The Grammys should be the playground where everybody meets, but no one really wants to anymore. Why? Crossovers are super rare and getting rarer. There was a rap country thing like two years back about a horse.

    A BTS fan and an NF fan are in different worlds even if they are next door neighbors.

    Lee Greenwood is proud to be an American and proclaims Christian God blesses us. In no way is that political.

    Pop music helped turn the corner on queer rights think Lady Gaga. Seriously, friends of mine were doing that in 1980. Bad Romance is a killer song though.

  67. de stijl says:


    Good call on Green Day. American Idiot.

  68. de stijl says:

    @Mister Bluster:

    Omg. You are such a hippie. Love it. Stay you.

  69. MarkedMan says:

    @HarvardLaw92: 20 years sounds about right. I’m not a DP guy. Of course any amount of imprisonment could be considered cruel and unusual… fir the other prisoners. Could you imagine having to listen to Donald Trump all day, every day?

  70. Gustopher says:

    @Kathy: Open white supremacy is not a top 20 level thing. It’s a popular niche.

    Following a racist rant with another racist rant is easy — you don’t lose audience, so it performs well. The audience is there for racist rants.

    Following a Taylor Swift song with a lefty protest song is going to lose about 50% of the audience if they listen to the words. It would perform poorly for the algorithms against mainstream music.

  71. Kylopod says:

    @de stijl: Side note: What is “hard metal”?

  72. Kathy says:

    We should hang a sign at the White House that says “OVER 7 MILLION INFECTED! MAGA!”

    Per CNN, case counts reached 7 million today in the US.

    It’s worth noting the following progression from that piece:

    • It took 98 days to hit 1 million cases on April 28.
    • It took 44 days to reach 2 million cases on June 11.
    • It was another 27 days before the US surpassed 3 million cases on July 8.
    • It took just 15 more days for the US to hit 4 million cases on July 23.
    • After another 17 days, the US hit 5 million cases on August 9.
    • It took 22 days to hit 6 million cases on August 31.
    • And it took 25 more days to hit 7 million cases on Friday, September 25.

    This tracks well, IMO, with the daily case graph at the Johns Hopkins COVID tracker.

    Click on US to get teh US specific daily case count graph.

    You can see a peak building up, then slowing down, then back up sharply as the country reopened, then it subsides and now it’s beginning to rise again.

    It’s worth noting cases are rising elsewhere, too, like Spain, France and the UK. I assume it’s largely due to reopening, despite precautions.

    Though I work every day, I don’t leave home for anything else except grocery shopping on weekends. Since mid-august, I’ve also risked getting a coffee at Starbucks. I reason it’s only a few minutes inside and it’s well-ventilated. But I don’t stay to drink the coffee. Instead I drive to a quiet residential street, where I can park for a while and drink it at my leisure.

    I suppose many others don’t observe this kind of partial lock down, but take advantage of the reopening to visit restaurants, bars, shops, salons, and whatever else is open. It follows that if you increase your exposure, masks or no masks, you increase your odds of catching the disease.

    Despite the fact that deaths haven’t increased to pre-lockdown levels, there is still a massive loss of productivity for patients who need to quarantine away from work, and especially those who require hospitalization. Those who die represent a loss far bigger, and more painful, than mere lost productivity.

  73. de stijl says:

    @flat earth luddite:

    A friend of mine impaled his eye on bolt monkeying on a big rig in his shop.

    He eventually got a Crenshawesque Dr. No eyepatch and it looks badass as hell. It was pretty spendy but looks cool as shit.

    He also has a custom made German metal iris that was supposed to limit light coming in dynamically, but is stuck all the open. It is spooky to look at.

    I assumed for months he black blind, but he is white blind (not a racial thing). His eye cannot limit incoming light so the right side is too much unfocused light.

    His insurance company hates him.

  74. de stijl says:


    Not soft.

  75. Gustopher says:


    Maybe it’s just that you can’t get much poetry out of “FU Bush/Trump.”

    I think Phil Ochs did a fine job with FU Mississippi:

    I’m still happy to listen to it half a century later. Of course “FU Mississippi” is a pretty evergreen sentiment.

  76. MarkedMan says:

    @Gustopher: Hmmm… I can think of a few theories as to “Why no (hit) protest songs?”

    – Pop has almost totally taken over the top of the charts. I think almost by definition there can’t be Pop protest songs
    – There are no more DJ’s and I suspect that “important” songs were pushed and talked about by influential DJ’s
    – The youths get their new music by whatever Spotify queues up and I don’t think there is any algorithm that upranks “important” songs. (As an old, I find myself growing depressed whenever Spotify is on, even if its playing stuff I like. To me, music with no human contact, no one saying “Hey, check this out!” is just life draining)
    – Finally, hell yeah, there are lots and lots of protest songs, some of which top the charts. It’s just that its in Rap and Hip Hop and not what this crowd listens too.

    Going back to the Pop comment, think about 1972. Picking a random week, Just in the top ten was
    1 “The First Time Ever I Saw Your Face”, Roberta Flack
    4 “Rockin Robin”, Michael Jackson
    5 “Day Dreaming” Aretha Flack
    6 “A Horse With No Name”, America
    7 “I’ll Take You There”, The Staple Singers
    8 “Doctor My Eyes”, Jackson Brown
    9 “Look What You Done For Me”, Al Green
    10 “Back Off Boogaloo”, Ringo Starr

    Elsewhere were things like
    13 “Vincent (Starry, Starry Night)/Castles in the Air”, Don McLean
    17 “Hot Rod Lincoln”, Commander Cody and His Lost Planet Airmen
    19 “Morning Has Broken”, Cat Stevens
    21 “Puppy Love” Donny Osmond
    22 “Heart of Gold”, Neil Young
    23 “Tumbling Dice”, The Rolling Stones
    24 “The Candy Man”, Sammy Davis, Jr
    25 “Me and Julio Down By the Schoolyard”, Paul Simon
    30 “Jump Into the Fire”, Harry Nilsson

    My god, I could go on and on, right through the top 100. There is no fricking way the current top 100 has anywhere near that variety of songs. And there are so many of them that are narrational songs: 37 “Sylvia’s Mother”, Dr. Hook and the Medicine Show, 59 “Old Man”, Neil Young, 70 “Changes”, David Bowie.

    Rap and Country have a lot of diversity, but I don’t think even those charts come close to this. The 60’s and 70’s was an explosion of different music, and DJ’s could push a song they liked. And even a major city might only have 5-10 stations that played music from the charts and so everyone who liked that kind of music heard the same thing.

    It just ain’t happening now.

  77. Just nutha ignint cracker says:

    @Bob@Youngstown: I’m not seeing how “we’re absolutely shocked about the mass failure of our bodycam system today” make a different story. I’m sure that there would be an investigation, you understand, but the result would be

    and nobody ever saw Foxy Loxy, Turkey Lurkey, Henny Penny, or Chicken Little ever again (and nobody ever talked to the King either).

  78. Gustopher says:

    VA Gov. Northam has covid.

    I know that covid has been spreading in minority communities somewhat more than white communities, so I guess this is his blackface coming back to haunt him.

    That’s why you should never dress in blackface.

  79. Grewgills says:

    @Michael Reynolds:
    I had a comment with some links, but it got eaten by moderation.
    Pretty much all of the protest music I’ve heard in the past 10 years has been hip hop or r&b.
    H.E.R. “I can’t breathe” is great. Usher, Nas, Keedron Bryant, and Ciara have all released protest songs in the past year or two.
    If you’re not into hip hop or r&b I don’t know that there is much of anything new around right now.

  80. de stijl says:

    Public Enemy was not top 20.

    PE and NWA look bigger culturally now , but it was genre then.

    My fave PE song is Rebel Without A Pause off It Takes A Nation Of Millions….

    Tracy Chapman’s Fast Car was big. Number 6 in US charts.

    Is it a protest song?

    It lays out the life choices and joys for a teen age black girl and it breaks your heart, well mine anyway. Always makes me cry.

    That was 1988. Year after Yo! Bum Rush The Show

    If Joan Baez was “protest” then Tracy Chapman is too.

    I love that song.

  81. Just nutha ignint cracker says:

    @JKB: WA! Part of what makes things so weird right now is that guys like you think that preaching to the choir ads like this one somehow impress/enrage/inspire people like me in regards to considering the candidate. Hmmm…

    (By the way, really enjoyed the ad. It was the funniest thing I’ve seen today since Trump’s healthcare plan by executive order. Top drawer comedy. Really. Laughed out loud.)

  82. Just nutha ignint cracker says:

    @wr: Yes! Exactly my thoughts. (I did miss the Iron Man landing easter egg thing, though. Everybody lands like that in comic books, so it didn’t stick out for me.)

  83. de stijl says:

    All of the algorithms note your behavior.

    You like X. Here is Xa. Or Xb. Perhaps Xc.

    Pandora used to use tempo, but it recommended really stupid follows so they bailed after a few months.

    I said “stratified” above. That was wrong.

    Siloed. Music delivery systems now silo you based upon what you listen to the most.

    You like country. We recommend this other country song.

    Same for all the other silos.

  84. Just nutha ignint cracker says:

    @Gustopher: Down where I live, there’s an I-Heart station that has the slogan “Charlie FM, we play everything.” What they really do is play the same ~75 song playlist on about 2 or 3 different rotations all day and every day for about a week or two. Part of the reason that stations can run 3 or 4 or 5 hour commercial free music blocks is because it costs almost nothing to play a Muzak-esque preprogrammed sequence.

  85. Gustopher says:

    In more good news for Covid, Florida is opening all bars and restaurants to 100%, and dismissing fines and penalties for anyone who violated previous restrictions.

  86. flat earth luddite says:

    @de stijl:
    Well, Iron Man reference took me to Nick Fury, which promptly took me back to Nick Fury and his Howlin’ Commandos. That was my eye patch reference. And I have to agree with @Cracker that, on the 3rd rewatch, with my sound on, the ad resonates — on a giggle level. I mean, I know he’s preaching to the choir, but wowsers, Penny!

  87. flat earth luddite says:

    @de stijl:.@Just nutha ignint cracker:
    And that’s why there are 75 jobs left in radio. In the country. 70 of them are for part-time/unpaid interns. Hell, even the AI computer quit in boredom from the programming gig.

  88. Mu Yixiao says:


    You won’t like it, but this new combined campaign by Rep Dan Crenshaw is something new in political ads.

    Are you kidding me?! I fucking LOVE IT!

    If they were running in Wisconsin, I’d probably vote for them. And I’m not being sarcastic.

    1) They’re reaching out to a young demographic. They are clearly not going to be in the pocket of the stodgy old farts; they’re trying to appeal to young, energetic, patriotic (but not nationalistic) conservative Texans.

    2) They’re young and energetic themselves. It’s not “another bunch of old white guys”. Which brings us to…

    3) There are only two white males in the group. There’s a black man, an Hispanic man, and two women. They have no problem with diversity, and they make it a point to show the women as strong (including the “I’ve got this” joke where the “very manly men” aren’t willing to spar with one of the women; all four of the men are military, and Crenshaw is a former SEAL). They’re humorously deflecting any criticisms that they’re racist or misogynistic. Which brings us to…

    4) They have a sense of humor. That alone sets them apart from 99.44% of Congress.

    5) They have 4 veterans. These people are far more likely to respect the Constitution–and take it seriously–than the trust-fund lawyers that normally run for office.

    6) For all the silliness of the video (which, by the way, was entirely intentional–and spot on), they’re presenting important facts about the histories and personalities of each of the candidates. And they’re doing it in under seconds for each of them. This is fucking brilliant marketing. Not only is it more powerful than 10 hours of dry monologues from boring people, it’s gone viral (and let’s face it, it was destined to). That’s an amazing amount of free advertising and “top-of-mind” recognition*.


    * At a marketing workshop many years ago the presenter said something that really cemented the idea of marketing in my mind: “You want to be the first person they say ‘no’ to–because that means they thought of you before anyone else, and had to actively reject you”. Most people don’t actively reject the first choice that comes to mind; they accept it as the best one.

  89. de stijl says:

    @Just nutha ignint cracker:

    Deadpool has a weird thing where he loves and mocks the hero landing.

    Negasonic rolls her eyes at dork boy.

    Maybe Thor can pull it off. Maybe.

    Is JKB gushing how manly it is? Bless his heart.

  90. Just nutha ignint cracker says:

    @flat earth luddite:

    “wow, what a great idea! I’ll play a combination of Tony Stark and Nick Fury. My adolescents fantasy come true!”

    Boom! Exactly my point.

    (No edit buttons for this post, but as I said earlier, I can remember the 2 or so that I use, so it’s okay.)

  91. Mu Yixiao says:

    @flat earth luddite:

    You’re right. Hate the ad. Hate the freaking targeting. Quadruple backflip on the hate that anyone spends this kind of money on advertising.

    So…. you hate a racially and genderly* diverse group of US veterans, business women, and experienced politicians who are targeting young voters who want something other than rich, stuffy, nationalistic, misogynists representing them?

    Or… You see that they’re Republicans and just automatically flip on the hate switch?

    * WTF is the adjective for “gender”?

  92. JohnSF says:

    @de stijl:
    Morrisey outside of The Smiths was generally sub-par; but certainly had one brilliant song:
    Everyday is Like Sunday.

    Perhaps you need to have lived for a while in Morecambe to really feel it.

    (True that Morrisey is a dick. Then again, if you never look to artists for exemplars in politics or morality, you’ll avoid lots of disappointment.)

  93. Just nutha ignint cracker says:


    Could you imagine having to listen to Donald Trump all day, every day?

    Meh… not that big of a deal. Hard to talk with your jaw wired shut and nobody to listen to you while you’re in protective custody after having your jaw broken. Problem solved.

  94. Just nutha ignint cracker says:

    @Kathy: On the good news side of that it means that we’re leveled out now. Just at a really, really high rate. 🙁

  95. de stijl says:


    No offense but early seventies radio turned me into a punk rocker.

    Iggy Pop opened my eyes. Iggy saved my life. Iggy is the gateway drug. I love that man. God bless us, iggyone!

  96. Mu Yixiao says:

    @flat earth luddite:

    I mean, I know he’s preaching to the choir, but wowsers, Penny!

    Please explain to me how that ad is “preaching to the [Republican] choir”. Name ONE thing about that video that supports the current Trump/McConnell approach to politics.

  97. JohnSF says:

    I can think of one 21st century Top 20 “political” song in the UK (though not exactly “protest”) dunno about US charts.
    Muse, Uprising, from 2009.

  98. JohnSF says:

    That’s just an offhand recollection really (and because I like Muse); generally I have no idea whats been in the charts this century, LOL.

  99. Jen says:

    @Mu Yixiao:

    Please explain to me how that ad is “preaching to the [Republican] choir”.

    Well, it’s a +11 R district, to start with.

  100. Just nutha ignint cracker says:

    @Mu Yixiao:

    * WTF is the adjective for “gender”?

    It’s “gender.” When placed in front of another noun, it adds information to that target noun, which makes the word a modifier and an adjective because it’s modifying a noun. What kind of a group? A gender group.

    Some people will say that “gender group:” is a compound noun. They will be correct also to the extent that the readership perceives the unit rather than the modifier + noun combination.

    “I know that you think you understand what I said, but you don’t realize that what you heard is not what I meant.” The foundation of functional grammar.

  101. Kathy says:

    @Just nutha ignint cracker:

    We’ll see. It would take between 18 and 20 days to reach 8 million if the pattern holds.

  102. Just nutha ignint cracker says:

    @Just nutha ignint cracker: No edit function (didn’t reload), but I wanted to add that many times the role of a word in a sentence depends on its position in the string as much as it depends on the common understanding of what part of speech it is. Although I am running, I don’t have on my running shoes.

  103. Mu Yixiao says:

    @Just nutha ignint cracker:

    My hands were faster than my brain.

    Whats the adverb for gender?
    [Race is to racially as gender is to _______ ]

    And… being a writer, editor, and EFL teacher, I’m going to have to punish myself for that error.

  104. JohnSF says:

    @Mu Yixiao:

  105. Mu Yixiao says:


    Well, it’s a +11 R district, to start with.

    That still doesn’t say how that ad is “preaching to the choir”–when the consensus here is that the choir is racist, misogynistic, old, white, male, and only concerned with money.

    I’d say that in a +11 R district, this ad is downright radical.

  106. Mu Yixiao says:


    @Mu Yixiao:

    {Columbo look}

    No… I don’t think that’s it.

  107. de stijl says:


    Top of my head:

    Interesting Drug
    Hairdresser on Fire
    We Hate It When Our Friends Become Successful
    Everyday Is Like Sunday
    You’re The one For Me Fatty
    Now My Heart Is Full

    Every Sunday afternoon I would rent a car and drive to Des Moines. Every Friday afternoon I would drive to Minneapolis. Driving time was four hours give or take. Five hours door to door because I had to bus downtown to the Hertz office.

    I listened to a lot of music. I can give you a forced rank list of New Order/Joy Division, The Clash, Talking Heads, The Pogues, Guided By Voices, Joe Henry, The Jayhawks, Superchunk, et alia.

    Did it every week except Christmas for 16 months. Planning the music was like the key life decision; this week Archers Of Loaf and Handel.

    As a young man, Morrissey had very fabulous hair.

  108. Just nutha ignint cracker says:

    @Just nutha ignint cracker: One more. The other thing that happens is that neither Mu nor I and probably most anyone else on this forum doesn’t need to understand/know any of this cognitively because as fully fluent speakers of the language, these nuances are all built in.

    We recognize the features of the language in much the same way as I recognized that the message in the Crenshaw commercial was not to me even though I may not be able to explain why. And the people to whom the message is directed know that it’s for them on the same bone deep level. We know language and message instinctively but need people who understand the mechanics to go beyond what is instinctive. If Crenshaw was reaching out, he probably failed. His message resonated only with people who were already so inclined, like JKB.

  109. EddieInCA says:

    @Mu Yixiao:

    I’m glad you’re not in marketing. This is what being out of touch looks like.

    You think young people are going to think well of this? You’re sadly mistaken.

    You think it’s going to draw a buzz? It probably will, but not in the way they intended it. This is Dukakis in the tank. This is Ford stumbling. This is 70 year old Sylvester Stallone, not Rocky.

    Please, please run this ad everywhere. Everywhere. People will point and laugh.

    It’s desperate and sad. And it ignores issues completely. If want superheros, I can watch Marvel and DC. From politicians, I want policy and problem solving.

    Also, you need to get out more if this impresses you as creative.

  110. Just nutha ignint cracker says:

    @Mu Yixiao: There may not be one. I can’t think of any verb that “gender” will modify and since adjectives can modify other adjectives, it wouldn’t need an adverb form. If you think of a verb that “gender” will modify, the form that does it will be the adverbial form. (A wild guess would be that it will probably also be “gender.”)

  111. sam says:


    The 60’s and 70’s was an explosion of different music.

    John Adams, the composer, was the rock critic at the Harvard Crimson around that time. He thought popular music of that era unparalleled in its creativity and power.

  112. Just nutha ignint cracker says:

    @Just nutha ignint cracker: As an ESL teacher, I would have imagined that you would have realized that “a race and gender diverse group of veterans” would be correct, but I could be wrong. For my money “race-” and “gender-” would have made better pairings–for absolute clarity–but some people say that my use of punctuation marking is archaic.

  113. de stijl says:

    @Mu Yixiao:


    That, or gentile.

  114. JohnSF says:

    @de stijl:
    Five hours! Every week!
    I’d only think of doing journeys like that once or twice a year for holidays.
    From where I live (English Midlands) 5 hours and you’ve run out of England.
    Have to be in Scotland, hitting the Highland Line, or into France or Belgium (Bruges, by preference).
    I used to listen to music driving; funny but these days usually prefer to focus on the drive.
    (Though still put Hawkwind on sometimes LOL)

  115. de stijl says:

    @Mu Yixiao:

    I think it would be gender-based.

    This was a racially motivated crime.

    This was a gender-based crime.

    Not perfect, but best that fits now.

  116. JohnSF says:

    Too young for the 60’s (though listened to a lot in retrospect) but around for the 70’s, and still love a lot of stuff from that period.
    But I would argue that the 90’s beats both.

    And the popular music of the period 65-75 was built on the foundations of jazz and blues of the the 50’s (and. OK, early 60s). IMHO the greatest “modern” basis of musical innovation; just play anything from the period from Chess or Blue Note and follow the musical derivations into 60’s/70’s and on to today.

  117. Jen says:

    @Mu Yixiao: It is radical, but I’m not sure in the right way.

    I’d have to dig into the demographics of the district, but it’s a good ad for building name ID, but not too much more.

    Older voters aren’t going to get it, and they are the most likely voters. This probably hits a mid-range of 30-40 year olds, who can be sort of inconsistent at the polls. For them, okay, this is fun.

    I’d need to look at the unemployment numbers in the district, along with other factors to see if this would be considered edgy or flippant. If the unemployment numbers are high, this could be seen as a self-aggrandizing and a little bit…silly? immature? not taking things seriously? etc.

    If unemployment is low, then the question is, is this a compelling ad that would encourage someone on the fence to vote for him–and, has this ad reached those voters?

    Political advertising isn’t just about marketing a candidate, it’s about selling an ideal, and a solution, to people who aren’t alreadyyour base voters. I don’t think it’s horrible (it doesn’t work for me, but I’m not in his district nor am I the right demographic for this ad), but I’m not certain that the “f*ck yeah” vote this appeals to is going to tip the scales. The generally male, generally Republican voters this appeals to are already voting for him.

    Now where this probably could work is fundraising, if he’s looking to raise money outside of his district. I’m sure there are people willing to contribute based on the ad–if that is the objective then yes, it could be considered successful.

  118. Mu Yixiao says:


    I’m glad you’re not in marketing.

    I am. And I’m quite good at it.

    From a marketing standpoint, this is pure gold.

    You think it’s shit because it’s not targeted at you. The people putting it out don’t give a rat’s ass about speaking to you. They’re not going to change your mind, and they’re not trying to. But they did get you talking about them. And that’s what they want.

    Marketing is about getting eyeballs and “top-of-mind” presence. No political ads have anything of substance. These days they’re pretty much just “OTHER PERSON IS BAD! VOTE FOR ME!” And we’ve become numb to all of that.

    The very fact that you have a strong opinion about this video proves that it’s working. Every time you say how stupid it is, or how much you hate it, you’re telling people that it exists. And you’re using the most powerful marketing there is: word of mouth. People will watch it because you told them to.

    And it will appeal to a small fraction of them–a small fraction that would never have known about it if you didn’t tell them about it. And that cascades on down–much farther than a few districts in Texas.

    This is getting national attention. When these state senators look at moving to higher office, this will get them more attention–for free.

    As for in-depth discussion of planks and policies, that’s what debates, town hall meetings, stump speeches, and other traditional podia are for. Once they have your attention, they can speak to the issues.

    This got your attention. It fired up your emotions. You can’t forget it. You’re talking about it–arguing about it–on global social media!


  119. Mu Yixiao says:

    Time to go watch the next to episodes of “Raised by Wolves”–and then scream at the screen when I can’t watch the final episode yet.

  120. JohnSF says:

    Well, I had to do it.
    I had to look at the Crenshaw video.

    I cannot comment on how it will play in the USA, but if any politician in the UK used this the entire country, left right and centre, would be ripping the piss for ever.
    The sheer volume and intensity of sustained mockery would shrivel his soul like water on the wicked witch of the west.
    “Dear Auntie, I think I’ve made a bit of a mistake. What should I do? Can you help?””
    “I do believe I can, young man. Delete your life, fool. LOL.”

  121. EddieInCA says:

    @Mu Yixiao:

    Sure…. Okay.

  122. EddieInCA says:


    I cannot comment on how it will play in the USA, but if any politician in the UK used this the entire country, left right and centre, would be ripping the piss for ever.

    Fortunately for John, I speak British slang.

    I cannot comment on how it will play in the USA,

    I cannot comment on how it will play in the USA because you are an odd group of people,

    but if any politician in the UK used this the entire country,

    but no politician in the UK, from ANY political party, would be so stupid to put out an ad like this,

    would be ripping the piss for ever.

    and if they did, they’d be rightly mocked forever. Forever.

    The sheer volume and intensity of sustained mockery would shrivel his soul like water on the wicked witch of the west.

    She’d/He’d be mocked so badly that they would find it hard to go out in public, and be too embarrassed to even go out at night. But wherever and whenver he/she went out, they’d be pointed at, repeatedly, and be, rightly, laughed at.

    “Dear Auntie, I think I’ve made a bit of a mistake. What should I do? Can you help?””
    “I do believe I can, young man. Delete your life, fool. LOL.”

    Your life is over. You should have thought about it before the ridiculous video.

  123. Jen says:

    @Mu Yixiao: Don’t go too far with the effect.

    It’s a useful ad in certain ways, but again a reminder that marketing and politics, while there is some overlap, are not identical.

    It’s useful for name ID.
    It’s useful for fundraising.
    It’s useful for a sense of binding together politically (aka, “firing up the base”)

    It is not going to have long-term legs, because it’s targeted to a narrow demographic and it’s loaded with pop culture references. Those don’t tend to age well.

    I’ve worked in politics and PR, and again, it’s not a bad ad, but as far as changing the outcome of the election in his district…it’s not going to alter that many votes.

  124. JohnSF says:

    Covid-wise, the UK after a period of good results has now blown past the April peak of 5,500 cases per day to a new high of 6,600.
    “But the death rate is still low…” bleat the idiots.
    Lag, idiots. LAG. Give it a fortnight.
    Though hopefully better treatment regimens should keep it below the early peak, already getting reports of local ICU maxed out.
    And govt. blames people for being “too relaxed”.

    Like, nothing to do with their messaging fustercluck (“eat out to help out”, “time to get back to the offices”) or the monumental failure to p*ss away nine months to develop the testing/tracking/tracing rapid response system that’s needed, and to tolerate the monumental money grubbing incompetence of the “outsourcing” contractors.

  125. de stijl says:


    Actually ten if you count both ends.

    It became a rhythm.

    The car rental was every week. Same day. Same time. Standing order and they had my credit card and assorted info.

    After a month or so I would walk in and say to Brianna, “Good to see you. How’s life treating you?” She would tell about her week, hand me keys and have me sign. Tell me the car make and row. Took two minutes tops. Brought a coffee and a sandwich.

    Four hours from downtown to downtown. 75 mph in Minnesota. 70 mph in Iowa.

    The apartment in Des Moines was nicer than mine back home. 11th floor with a riverside balcony.

    I was contractor getting stupid money per hour plus per diem. Cost plus type contract so the apartment and car was reimbursed too.

    Four hours driving became nothing. A joy even. Hey crooked tree! I am now roughly 47 minutes to Mason City. See you Friday. Stay cool.

    Nights I would have 2 or 3 pints at The Royal Mile. Go home. Play video games. Smoke cigarettes and look at the river roll by.

    The work was spot on. Easy SQL stuff I could knock out. Some challenging stuff. How to build out the front end for a bunch of star schemas. New tools to scratch that curiosity itch. Mentor junior FTEs.

    When the project wrapped I was bereft. I had had a nice compact zen life. And now the chaos of empty hours and no obligations.

    With that gig I had enough money to do anything. I was 40 and had permanent fuck you money.

    My Minneapolis friends welcomed me back but a year and a half had gone by. Things move on. My gf lived in Des Moines.

    So I leapt.

  126. Bob@Youngstown says:

    @Just nutha ignint cracker:
    Are you trying to make a joke here?
    Or are you saying that body camera information is flawed, therefore should not be acquired or applied in an investigation?
    What is your point?

  127. de stijl says:


    PR pro bringing her mad messaging skillz.

    Seriously, you are better at interpreting this than all of us combined. Kylopod has us beat at election analytics.

    You should think about a business. Most local political ads are terrible. They are geared towards voters they are going to get anyway. Yeah, maybe it is GOTV stuff.

    I hate the negative ads with the scary music stings and distorted images. Candidate x will be Pelosi’s handmaiden. Candidate y will be McConnell’s footstool. No one runs on policy; they just pull stupid numbers out of the air.

    I saw an ad yesterday where the R not only tagged the D with the whole of the New Green Deal, but if you voted for her you will pay $13 a gallon for gas. It was ludicrous. Oh, and $4 trillion dollar tax increase.

    I thought it is was insulting. It was so OTT this actually insults swing voters.

    Does this message in this market going for this demographic slice move the meter?

    Instead of brute force analytics of this ad aired Wednesday and polls moved such measured on Friday.

    Rather this ad failed or succeeded because it brought this message to this many winnable votes.

    Also, many more streamer only in younger cohorts.

    Please continue sharing.

  128. de stijl says:


    UK folk and Europeans do not get the scale of North America.

    Minneapolis to Des Moines is longer than London to York by 60 some km. These are neighbor states. Madison is slightly farther.

  129. Just nutha ignint cracker says:

    @Bob@Youngstown: I’m implying that the Louisville Metro Police are corrupt enough to bury evidence. Did you really miss that?

  130. Kathy says:


    Like, nothing to do with their messaging fustercluck (“eat out to help out”, “time to get back to the offices”) or the monumental failure to p*ss away nine months to develop the testing/tracking/tracing rapid response system that’s needed, and to tolerate the monumental money grubbing incompetence of the “outsourcing” contractors.

    One day I hope to hear a good reason why so many governments have responded so poorly, and squandered so much time, in dealing with an obvious, clear and present health emergency.

  131. de stijl says:


    During Thatcher years the UK was awash in political and protest music. I listened to quite a bit of it.

    During Reagan years it was Dead Kennedys and Black Flag. Many ignored him as if it would make it stop sooner. Or would mock his genial stupidity. I get that. I have done that since election night with Trump. (Trump is not genial tho).

    Did Husker Du? Could you be the one? Obliquely but not directly if I recall.

    Makes no sense at all.

  132. Gustopher says:

    @Just nutha ignint cracker:

    I can’t think of any verb that “gender” will modify and since adjectives can modify other adjectives, it wouldn’t need an adverb form. If you think of a verb that “gender” will modify, the form that does it will be the adverbial form. (A wild guess would be that it will probably also be “gender.”)


    In a sentence: From across the room, someone approached him unandrogynously and locked eyes with him; he was titillated, cocksure and confused — whatever gender that person had was not one he was familiar with, at least not yet.

    I’m not sure there are a lot of uses for such a word, but if I every needed one, that’s what I would reach for.

    While I’m at it, the adverbial form of enby (non-binary person) should be enbiously. It just should.

  133. Gustopher says:

    @Mu Yixiao:

    Are you kidding me?! I fucking LOVE IT!

    If they were running in Wisconsin, I’d probably vote for them. And I’m not being sarcastic.

    Because of this ad? Really? I thought you were more intellectually driven than that.

    I mean, it’s one thing to vote for Trumpy Toadies because you approve of the direction of the country, or you’re waiting for Trump to arrest all the pedophiles or whatever, but to actually have your opinion determined by ridiculous playacting?

    For those who would vote for them, but just don’t feel like bothering, this might spark a drop of enthusiasm. And it definitely plays well at a fundraising level where the goal is to make wealthy, older donors thing the candidates are really in touch with the youth of today (it needs some avocado toast, eaten ironically, to really deliver). But I have a hard time believing it would change anyone’s mind.

  134. OzarkHillbilly says:

    @Mu Yixiao: Dan Crenshaw opening his mouth turns on my hate switch. He’s an asshole with severe TTS.

  135. Bob@Youngstown says:

    @Just nutha ignint cracker: My sentiments as well. My point is that the video could be exculpatory…. IF the cops were behaving as they claim.

  136. wr says:

    @Mu Yixiao: “This is fucking brilliant marketing.”

    Yes. In exactly the same way the marketing for the movie “Snakes on a Plane” was brilliant. Months before that film’s release New Line started promoting it — and it caught on like wildfire. Pretty soon everyone was using the phrase. And New Line milked that for all it was worth — when people online, learning that Samuel L. Jackson was the star, insisted that he had to say “There are motherfucking snakes on this motherfucking plane,” they reshot part of a scene to include that line and people went crazy for it. New Line was going to have the biggest hit of 2006.

    And then the movie came out.

    And here’s the funny thing — all those people who were talking about Snakes on a Plane? They weren’t talking about it because they were so darned excited to see it. They were talking about it because it so completely epitomized a certain kind of Hollywood thinking — that all you need is the right catchy concept and you don’t have to worry about making a good movie. They weren’t laughing with the movie — they were laughing at it.

    The movie cost 36 million to make and at least that much to market. It grossed 62 million, of which the studio would have gotten roughly half. A huge moneyloser.

    But oh that marketing!!!

  137. wr says:

    @Mu Yixiao: ” they’re trying to appeal to young, energetic, patriotic (but not nationalistic) conservative Texans.”

    You know what those young, energetic, patriotic kids are watching today when there’s no new Marvel or DC product coming out?

    They’re watching The Boys on Amazon. It’s a superhero show, but one in which the supes are all made and owned by a giant corporation and made to star in glossy, pseudo-patriotic fictionalizations of their exploits — while their real missions generally involve the mass murder of innocent civilians. And one of the leads of the show is Homelander, a Superman-type who literally wraps himself in the American flag… to disguise the fact that he is a soulless pyschopath.

    And this brilliant brilliant brilliant ad looks just like one of the bullshit videos used to sell superheroes to suckers… only the production values here aren’t as good.

    Apparently you think conservative voters are morons who will fall for any shiny object, and maybe you’re right. But that doesn’t make this brilliant — it makes conservatives morons.

  138. Just nutha ignint cracker says:

    @Gustopher: I like it. I, also, don’t see many situations where I would be likely to use it, and it really is narrower than “gender,” which, after all is a spectrum where “androgyny/ous” is obviously narrower if not unitary, but I would immediately understand what was meant. Perhaps Bill can enter the conversation at some point and illuminate us in a more practical manner.

    “Enbiously” is spot on. Great call!

  139. Just nutha ignint cracker says:

    @Bob@Youngstown: Then you’re just more optimistic than I allow myself to be. But that’s good; somebody should be optimistic.

  140. de stijl says:


    Androgynous by The Replacements was 1984.

    That was radical in that time.

    Love that song. Gonna listen to it now.