Our Present Petty Polarized Politics
Common ground is, sadly, bad politics.
Politico reports: DeSantis will not meet with Biden in Florida on Saturday.
Ron DeSantis will not meet Joe Biden on Saturday when the president comes to Florida to survey damage from Hurricane Idalia, the governor’s administration said Friday.
The governor’s office, in a statement, said the visit will disrupt recovery efforts.
Of course, that’s not the reason. The reason is that it would disrupt DeSantis politically.
And, he isn’t wrong.
In our current political climate a Republican politician, especially one in a primary, can only see more downside than up in appearing with the president of the opposing party–especially in a context wherein said Republican would be forced to say nice things about said president.
See, e.g., Chris Christie, Barack Obama, and Superstorm Sandy relief.
It reminds me of when President Biden visited Alabama a few years ago and Governor Ivey was “too busy” to meet with him (she was involved in a campaign at the time).
It is a troubling, but unsurprising, aspect of our current era that opposing partisans see downsides to being cooperative with their opponents even in the name of the public good.
I would note that at least part of the reason for this is that the candidate selection process in the US privileges partisan point-scoring and fundraising nonsense over public policy competence.
It may go back to the fact that some pundits claimed that Mitt Romney’s loss to Barack Obama in 2012 was caused by Chris Christie’s much-publicized gratitude to Obama after Superstorm Sandy.
I don’t think that’s true, but the notion might linger in the minds of many Republican candidates: Whatever you do, don’t praise a Democrat.
Biden is cooperating with DeSantis on aid and happy to be seen with him. It’s not partisanship, it’s Republicans. Poll after poll shows GOP voters hate the idea of compromise or cooperation, but Ds do not.
@gVOR10:
Correct — this is not a situation where both sides are the same.
@gVOR10: Yep. Biden even expressed full confidence in Governor DeSantis as he made decisions about the hurricane relief efforts.
I’m sick to death of the “both sides” argument. It’s cynical. It’s wrong. It only serves the Rs, and it encourages future nihilism.
Oh FFS. “Opposing Partisians????” WTF?
This is NOT a “both sides” issue. This is some bullshit framing of what is clearly a Republican base issue.
Edit – Should have read the comments before posting. Others have already said it.
Folks,
Chill.
Stop attacking people who don’t say things exactly the way you want them said, please?
It is honestly tiresome.
And I expect a lot of Dems would not want to be seen hugging Trump and being seen praising him for his generosity.
It certainly easier for the sitting president who has no primary challenger to be the more magnanimous person.
I am happy to agree that there is some degree of asymmetry here (maybe a great deal), but do you have any idea how tiresome it is to write a fairly anodyne post only to have people jump down your throat?
@Steven L. Taylor:
With all due respect, Dr. Taylor…
…makes the point for us. Trump never has, and NEVER would, show generosity to anyone. He never has showed even one small modicum of wanting to partner with anyone on anything. Heck, Biden is being kinder to Mc Connell than Trump.
So no just no. There is zero empirical data that Trump would be magnanimous or even decent to any Democrat.
In fact, after Hurricane Maria in Puerto Rico, Trump withheld funds for over a year because he felt the Mayor wasn’t deferential enough, despite the Mayor saying nice things about Trump initially.
@Steven L. Taylor:
Trump blamed California for its wildfires and threatened to withhold funding and Gavin Newsome still met with him in 2020. So, yeah, you are deluded here if you believe that this is because of our politicized politics. It’s because Republicans politicians are 95% shit people who can’t do anything other than hate.
@Steven L. Taylor:
“And I expect a lot of Dems would not want to be seen hugging Trump and being seen praising him for his generosity.”
And yet counterexamples are easy to find. For example :
“Newsom said today he has developed a strong personal relationship with Trump and characterized the president’s animosity toward California as more show than substance.
“There’s not one phone call that I have made to the President, where he hasn’t quickly responded,” Newsom said. “And in almost every instance, he’s responded favorably in terms of addressing the emergency needs of the state,” related to both the pandemic and wildfires.
“He may make statements publicly, but the working relationship privately has been a very effective one.””
@Steven L. Taylor:
If those of us who react harshly to a hint of BSDI, its because the media and most pundits have failed us, miserably, by framing the political situation in America as a thrilling horserace instead of an existential battle for democracy.
No, sorry, I won’t chill. Any sane and responsible commentary needs to be bold and unabiguous that the Republican party is determined to install minority rule on America and will stop at nothing, including violence, to get their way.
I know from the perspective of a pundit or political analyst it is probably very tiresome to be forced to write the same thing repeatedly and to try and find some deep meaning or insight into our current affairs.
I can’t change that, but you have my sympathies.
But from our perspective, much of what passes for insightful commentary, llike ont he Sunday morning shows, or the BYT or WaPo pages, just sounds like all those clips you see from the European aristocracy in the Weimar years, sniffily dismissing the strutting little men shouting on the balconies, wholly oblivious to the gathering storm at their door.
I mean, it took 4 years before these pundits started using the word “lie” and still more to portray Jan 6 as an attack on democracy, without using the “what some are calling” weasel words. And even now, it seems clear that for a lot of centrist pundits, its only the vulgarity of Trump that troubles them, not the fascism.
Meaning that they would be content to acquiesce to the next strutting man who shouts from a balcony, so long as they can frame it as just BSDI, nothing to get alarmed at.
Sigh.
The relationship between Republicans and Democrats is more akin to that between Confederates and Unionists, or Russians and Ukrainians. We did not start this war. We’ve bent over backward to try and pretend otherwise, but this is Traitors vs. Patriots, life or death for the republic. There is no point pretending otherwise. Steven, you live in Alabama and I imagine you come into contact with Republicans regularly, and it must be awkward at the least to start seeing your colleagues and acquaintances as beyond the pale, but that’s reality. These are bad people working to deceive and hurt and destroy. There will be no peace until the GOP is deprived of all power. There is no comity with a cult leader.
@Michael Reynolds:
The MAGAs see themselves as the true patriots and everyone else as a traitor.
@gVOR10:
Evidence on this is strange and contradictory, but in a pretty predictable way.
For example, there’s this NewsNation/Decision Desk HQ poll from late May:
That contradicts the conventional wisdom about Republicans eschewing compromise. But then there’s this, from Pew Research earlier this year:
Confirming that the Republican rank-and-file are significantly more hostile to compromise than Democrats.
As with the much-mocked example of conservatives approving of “the Affordable Care Act” but opposing “Obamacare,” the contradiction is predictable based on the surveys’ different wording. Republicans are fine with compromise in theory, just not in reality where compromise means engagement with “Biden.”
Would the same hold true for Democrats and a traitor named “Trump?” I agree that from 2017-2020, Democrats would not have minded — and didn’t mind — their governors working with Trump through disasters like the COVID and the California wildfires.
Post Jan. 6, 2021, I’m not so sure. It was one thing when Trump’s extremism, narcissistic personality disorder, bigotry, and patholgical lying posed just an existential threat to the republic. Now that Drama Queen Donnie poses a tangible, clear and present danger, rank-and-file Democrats might be less inclined to see their electeds shake hands with the Orange Menace.
But I wouldn’t attribute this wariness to just partisan pettiness either. Trump’s danger is the X factor. Biden thanking and defending his “friend” McConnell doesn’t seem to hurt him with Democrats.
@DK:
When I look at the policy priorities of Republicans, and I hear entreaties to “compromise” it seems bizarre.
Like, they refuse to accept that the 2020 election was free and fair, and refuse to accept Biden as the legitimate president.
This isn’t merely overheated hyperbole, this is a bedrock operating assumption of a large majority of the party.
What would a “compromise” position here even look like?
Or the culture war- issues like queer rights and abortion- these are binary issues, you either are a full and free citizen or you aren’t. There isn’t some middle ground to be found.
Worse, the “compromise” talk assumes that people who accept Joe Biden as the legitimate president, or accept queer people as full and free citizens are somehow “extremists” whose positions must be rejected in favor of some other position, instead of the basic starting point for any discussion.
@DK:
there’s a fair amount of deception going on here. 71% of Republicans? Really? That’s not from the number of Republicans who support Trumpism, so, NO, I’m not buying that number.
I do think these polling numbers are warped by people who are tell pollsters something will portray themselves as reasonable, temperate, moderate, thoughtful, and indepependent -minded. You know, not part of the problem, which we know they are because they’re voting for and electing these hyper partisans to office. I mean, these people didn’t end up in Washington because DeSantis and Abbott had them bussed there.
@Steven L. Taylor:
I don’t think you made your point.
I assume your point, as always, is that structural issues in our two-party, single-member districts lead to this or that outcome (specifically an unwillingness to compromise), but nearly everyone here is old enough to have seen it operate differently, and can also see that only one party’s voters are vehemently opposed to compromise.
I do think that our systems may be particularly vulnerable to attacks that lead to this outcome, and would pin that on Fox, Limbaugh and Newt Gingrich. But that’s not the case you’re making, or if it is you have left that all as an exercise for the reader. (Also, whether the political system would be vulnerable to similar attacks from the left, why they have never materialized, etc.)
Is it changes to the primary process in the later 60s that took decades to filter through the entrenched incumbents? The rise of social media? Some kind of fungus that is growing in people’s brains?
(I know if we asked MR, we would get something about people living in fairy tales because of religion, but then we are stuck on the what changed, because that has been going on for a few thousand years)
Not trying to jump on the bandwagon (well, a little, we all love a good bandwagon), just trying to poke for where the gaps are and what might fill them. I expect there’s some incredibly well known something in comparative political science that you aren’t mentioning because it’s so obvious to you.
I am tired of coddling the DARVO that appears to pass for Media Discourse. Don’t wonder why there’s no bipartisanship — instead, ask when Republicans are going to apologize for their repeated intentional threats of felony violence directed at Democrats.
“Bipartisanship” since Reagan has been code for “Democrats voting for Republican positions”. The analogy is Lucy yanking the ball away from Charlie Brown who once again was suckered into thinking Lucy would let him kick the ball. Hint: She will never let Charlie Brown kick the ball.
If Republicans want to vote for Democratic positions, sure, that’s great, but the next time will be the first time.
Bipartisanship is absolutely not a goal in and of itself. Democrats need to move on from interacting with Republicans and recognize that they are the only ones who are interested in competent governance.
I can understand. It’s tough for a GOP Candidate.
Desantis doesn’t want to be seen shaking Biden’s hand and thanking him for all that sweet sweet Federal socialism that will be pouring into Florida.
All Desantis would have had to do was 1) be there, 2) shake Biden’s hand, and 3) then place a deep wet explorative kiss on Biden’s ass.
Don’t see the problem at all. GOP are cowards.
@DK: Results depend on what questions you ask. For example, most people will agree with both
and
Add that polarization creates circumstances where problems involve situations where the sides are diametrically opposed, and you get America.
@Gustopher:
Not so fast Gus. People have also for thousands of years probably believed that religions (other than the one that “I” practice of course) have always been used to control and enslave people.
Secularists always believe that they’ve broken new intellectual ground. Meh… not so much.
@Gustopher:
I am sure I didn’t make as thoroughly as I could have. It is a rather short post, after all.
I am sighing because it is utterly tiresome to be jumped for making a point if, when I make that point, I don’t just make sure to say how terrible the Rs are and how angelic the Ds are.
There is a degree to which it would be nice if regular readers gave me some benefit of the doubt that I am not engaging in crass both-siderism.
The issue is that each person with any interest in both objective reality and collective decision-making is already a Democrat. After Republicans made it clear professors aren’t welcome in the R Party, how many professors continue to vote R?
There is nobody “over there” to compromise with. The concept of compromise requires a core of those people to exist.. without them, compromise is for suckers.
It’s long past time for Democrats to stop being suckers.
@Modulo Myself:
Please see my post today.