Steven L. Taylor is a Professor of Political Science and a College of Arts and Sciences Dean. His main areas of expertise include parties, elections, and the institutional design of democracies. His most recent book is the co-authored A Different Democracy: American Government in a 31-Country Perspective. He earned his Ph.D. from the University of Texas and his BA from the University of California, Irvine. He has been blogging since 2003 (originally at the now defunct Poliblog).
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Mike Bost, the Republican who sits in the US House of Representatives seat for the 12th District in Illinois where I live and a Trump Toady Supreme just issued a statement:
New York’s six-week sham trial against President Trump has eroded the public’s trust in our legal system in a way that will take years to overcome.
Wise up Mike TRUMP IS NOT THE PRESIDENT! HE IS A CONVICTED FELON!
The way I think of Trump’s support – and true believers in general – is that there’s a model that’s like erosion. No particular drop of water does much, but it adds up.
@Kathy: unfortunately, whilst losing Pennsylvania made it much less likely he’d become president in 2020. Being found guilty on 34 charges doesn’t necessarily make it any less likely he’ll becomes president in 2024.
And who is most responsible for eroding trust in the legal system? Could it be people who are constantly defying gag orders, threatening witnesses in social media, accusing judges of favoritism based on their race, and describing it as all rigged?
Campaign fundraising off the guilty verdict has already begun, as per The Guardian’s live blog. Naturally it was set up in advance. But if this doesn’t get Orangefuhrer into the Grift and Con Hall of Fame, nothing will.
My suggestion: ignore the lickspittles proclaiming that the trial was rigged, it was just a political exercise, and other mental and moral diarrhea. They’re all clamoring to be first in line to get Baron Harkonnen’s blessings. There’s nothing worth rebutting.
It helps mostly by continuing to build the image of Trump as a “loser”. If there is anything that can shake the faith of his followers that’s what I’d put my money on.
On a related note, it’s time for We the People to elect representatives who will enshrine into law an accountability system for SCOTUS. These unaccountable unelecteds have a reckoning ahead.
@Mister Bluster:
TRUMP IS NOT THE PRESIDENT! HE IS A CONVICTED FELON JUST LIKE TED STEVENS!!!!1!!!
Is the gag order expired or does it last until sentencing or indefinitely?
It is a damn shame how effective this undermining trust claim can be. Same argument made wrt the electoral system. They share another attribute–it’s easy to undermine public trust when the message is a lie.
It is one thing if trust erodes for a real reason, but another if politicians and commentators actively make erroneous claims with the intention of reducing trust.
Electoral system: widespread, decisive voter fraud vs. the long list of ways the electoral system insulates elected officials from public opinion.
Criminal justice: political persecution/two-tiered justice system vs. economic class and race as determinants of judicial outcomes.
These people’s actions and words intend to erode trust then they point to the distrust of institutions they created as evidence that they were right all along.
I was in town picking up a spark plug and some gear oil when I heard the news that a verdict had been reached. After 15 or 20 mins when they still hadn’t announced, I said “fuck it” and headed for the parts store. When I came out, they announced, “Guilty guilty guilty guilty Guilty guilty guilty guilty Guilty guilty guilty guilty Guilty guilty guilty guilty Guilty guilty guilty guilty Guilty guilty guilty guilty Guilty guilty guilty guilty Guilty guilty!
I bought popcorn (4 me) and drumsticks (4 my wife).
He’ll never see a day in prison but it is a small measure of justice.
The echoes in the Nutsphere last night were about supposedly tainted jury instructions–that Merchan instructed the jury that the verdict need not be unanimous.
Leave aside that it is a misreading of what the instructions that would make Drake blush. It’s also abundantly unclear how that would actually affect deliberation and the final verdict.
He’ll never see a day in prison but it is a small measure of justice.
Nor should he for this conviction. Given his age, his first-time offender/conviction status, and the nature of his crime, he (nor anyone else in similar circumstances should see prison). Nor should he (or anyone else) face a trial tax in terms of sentence.
That said, the probation sentence will be an interesting one.
@Kathy: I would be happy to see him picking up trash and dirty, used needles. In fact, I think that’s more effective than sending him to prison. Hard to fundraise off of that image.
@CSK: There is a certain irony in the fact that he was elected due to Weiner and convicted due to Pecker. I take it simply as a sign that he’s a real dick.
NPR said something about jury instructions too. But I was kinda out of it and driving so I didn’t hear what they were saying the problem was. I hope they weren’t picking up some rwnj lunacy.
Michael Cohen got prison time for the same crime. And he copped.
No, Michael Cohen pled guilty in *Federal Court* to a wider range of crimes:
Robert Khuzami, Attorney for the United States, Acting Under Authority Conferred by 28 U.S.C. § 515, announced that MICHAEL COHEN was sentenced today to three years in prison for tax evasion, making false statements to a federally insured bank, and campaign finance violations. COHEN pled guilty on August 21, 2018, to an eight-count information before U.S. District Judge William H. Pauley III, who imposed today’s sentence. In a separate prosecution brought by the Special Counsel’s Office (“SCO”), COHEN pled guilty on November 29, 2018 to one count of making false statements to the U.S. Congress and was also sentenced on that case today, receiving a two-month concurrent sentence.
@DeD: IMO the best lin from the article you linked to:
We’re seeing here the latest operation of a foundational rule of the Trump era: If you’re a Trump supporter, you will sooner or later be called to jettison any and every principle you ever purported to hold.
Today, Trump won a popular vote for the first time.
I enjoy the sweet, sweet tears of the MAGA crowd. Every prison is full of people claiming to be innocent.
All the people who complain about these felony convictions never meant a scintilla of their claiming to be in favor of “Law And Order” — indeed, the authorities can and will [and should] come after you when you falsify business documents.
Today is a day when the language asserts the presence of an All-Powerful Enemy; I’m sure tomorrow Democrats will be referred to as effete soy-boys.
I saw it on NBC News before the verdict came down.
Several conservative news personalities, including some affiliated with Fox News, falsely claimed that Judge Juan Merchan, as one Fox News anchor put it in a viral post on X, “told the jury that they do not need unanimity to convict” Trump.
That’s not true. Merchan instructed the jury on Wednesday that they “must conclude unanimously that a defendant conspired to promote or prevent the election of any person to a public office by unlawful means,” adding that they “need not be unanimous as to what those unlawful means were.”
That means that jurors have to agree unanimously that Trump committed a crime by engaging in a criminal conspiracy to falsify records with the intent to commit one or more other crimes in order to convict him. But jurors can choose from three options about what those other crimes were: violations of the Federal Election Campaign Act; the falsification of other business records; or the violation of tax laws. Those “unlawful means” aren’t charges themselves and would not result in separate convictions, so jurors do not have to unanimously agree on them.
The jury instruction was complex and nuanced and some right-wing accounts ran with false reports.
my understanding is that the rationale for reducing sentencing is that the defendant admits his error, and is deemed unlikely to commit the crime again. How does that apply here?
Here is some more. I don’t know why NBC News didn’t identify the Fox News anchor, but whatever. It was John Roberts. To his credit, he explained in a subsequent post on X that the situation is more nuanced than that.
Of course that did not stop the Nutsphere from complaining the instructions were unfair. Nor did it stop Trump from claiming the same.
Turley called the point of contention “troubling,” but I didn’t see that first hand. Marco Rubio also apparently ran with it. These two, in particular, are…uh…troubling, because one is a law professor* and the other is a US Senator with a JD**.
*Nominally. At this point, it seems as if he is a pundit who moonlights as a law professor rather than the other way around.
**Of course, Rubio launched his political career two years after receiving his law degree, so it is arguable that his sheepskin contains dead letters.
It gets a lot worse if you think about it for two seconds.
1) Wouldn’t Orangefuhrer’s lawyers have objected to the judge giving illegal instructions to the jury? And wouldn’t they have implemented any and all legal remedies available at once? And di we hear a peep from these lawyers about that part of the instructions?
2) Regardless of point 1), if Merchan had done what the deplorables claim, wouldn’t it make for the easiest appeal to win? Not to mention Merchan would be disbarred, and subject to whatever sanctions the state of New York has in the books.
At some point you wonder what the MAGAts use for brains.
I think the pertinent question here is what happens when Orangefuhrer, if given probation, inevitably violates the terms of said probation. For instance, if he’s given X hours of community service, and refuses to perform any of it. Or if he travels without authorization.
@Kathy:..if given probation, inevitably violates the terms of said probation.
Lock Him Up! Lock Him Up! Lock Him Up! Lock Him Up! Lock Him Up! Lock Him Up!
Lock Him Up! Lock Him Up! Lock Him Up! Lock Him Up! Lock Him Up! Lock Him Up!
Lock Him Up! Lock Him Up! Lock Him Up! Lock Him Up! Lock Him Up! Lock Him Up!
Lock Him Up! Lock Him Up! Lock Him Up! Lock Him Up! Lock Him Up! Lock Him Up!
Lock Him Up! Lock Him Up! Lock Him Up! Lock Him Up! Lock Him Up! Lock Him Up!
Lock Him Up! Lock Him Up! Lock Him Up! Lock Him Up!
The lesson here is that a legal streetfight against someone like Trump is easy to win if you have them to dead to rights on lying and fraud about money, which Bragg did. Not to be a downer, but imagine what would be happening if Biden would have appointed a special prosecutor to investigate Clarence Thomas and his lies about money.
Remember that movie, 48 Hours? Nick Nolte, in that scratchy junk yard dog voice, addresses Eddie Murphy… “Hey, convict.”
Yeah, Donald. Forget being called “sir”. Now it’s, “Hey, convict.” Accountability decades late, but better late than never. Hopefully more accountability to come.
(a) Hardly anybody understands what crimes Trump committed; most think (partly thanks to lazy journalists who implied it, and partly to Trump propagandists’ deliberate disinformation) he was indicted for paying hush money; and (b) whether misunderstood or not, his crimes were “victimless”. Consequently I expect all the excitement will have been forgotten by the conventions, as other events hit the front pages. People who voted for Trump despite his blatant university fraud, the Access Hollywood tapes and his fines for misusing funds in his own charity aren’t going to be turned off because he did some dodgy book-keeping.
It just occurred to me that now that Trump is a convicted felon, President Biden shouldn’t even bother to participate in a debate with this guy. Not that he was before, Trump is not a serious, viable candidate for the office of POTUS. President Biden should call off the debates.
@DeD: I’m getting somewhat confident that the gibberish is intentional. And that’s my last comment regarding that subject; it was funny for awhile but now I just skip those posts.
My wife said one of the best parts of this is that Trump had to sit there and hear the word “guilty” said right to his stupid orange face, 34 times.
34 down, 54 to go.
I’m as happy and relieved as when Pennsylvania was called for Biden in 2020.
To his True Believers, this won’t matter. To them, it’s just another sign he’s been framed or whatever.
Globally, however, it does matter. It matters a LOT.
@Jen:
If it shaves 1% to 3% in the swing states, it will be enough.
Mike Bost, the Republican who sits in the US House of Representatives seat for the 12th District in Illinois where I live and a Trump Toady Supreme just issued a statement:
Wise up Mike TRUMP IS NOT THE PRESIDENT! HE IS A CONVICTED FELON!
The way I think of Trump’s support – and true believers in general – is that there’s a model that’s like erosion. No particular drop of water does much, but it adds up.
Trump spoke outside the courthouse. It was the usual blather about rigged trails and conflicted, corrupt judges.
“I am a very innocent man,” he proclaimed.
Not just innocent. VERY innocent.
What’s the world coming to when a white man cannot falsify business records to further a criminal conspiracy?
Not today…
I believe he was convicted HUGELY! Lol!
@Kathy: unfortunately, whilst losing Pennsylvania made it much less likely he’d become president in 2020. Being found guilty on 34 charges doesn’t necessarily make it any less likely he’ll becomes president in 2024.
And who is most responsible for eroding trust in the legal system? Could it be people who are constantly defying gag orders, threatening witnesses in social media, accusing judges of favoritism based on their race, and describing it as all rigged?
No, it couldn’t possibly be them.
Campaign fundraising off the guilty verdict has already begun, as per The Guardian’s live blog. Naturally it was set up in advance. But if this doesn’t get Orangefuhrer into the Grift and Con Hall of Fame, nothing will.
@Jay L Gischer:
I hope the identity of the jurors remains hidden. There are some crazed MAGAs out there looking for them.
YES!!
We got the news down here too.
A guilty verdict doesn’t surprise me
When Trump is sentenced to no time in jail, I won’t be surprised.
I won’t be surprised if today’s verdict has no effect in November.
Time for me and the wife to go have breakfast. G’day mates
My suggestion: ignore the lickspittles proclaiming that the trial was rigged, it was just a political exercise, and other mental and moral diarrhea. They’re all clamoring to be first in line to get Baron Harkonnen’s blessings. There’s nothing worth rebutting.
It helps mostly by continuing to build the image of Trump as a “loser”. If there is anything that can shake the faith of his followers that’s what I’d put my money on.
On a related note, it’s time for We the People to elect representatives who will enshrine into law an accountability system for SCOTUS. These unaccountable unelecteds have a reckoning ahead.
https://www.nytimes.com/2024/05/30/us/politics/roberts-alito-supreme-court-flag-ethics.html?unlocked_article_code=1.v00.3MnA.hb40wS4XaM7t&smid=url-share
@Mister Bluster:
TRUMP IS NOT THE PRESIDENT! HE IS A CONVICTED FELON JUST LIKE TED STEVENS!!!!1!!!
Is the gag order expired or does it last until sentencing or indefinitely?
Four Seasons Total Landscaping continues to bring the humor.
@Kingdaddy:
You know the first thing that popped into my mind when the verdict was announced? The arc of the moral universe is long but it bends towards justice.
@Jen: @Jen:
That is funny.
@Mister Bluster:
It is a damn shame how effective this undermining trust claim can be. Same argument made wrt the electoral system. They share another attribute–it’s easy to undermine public trust when the message is a lie.
It is one thing if trust erodes for a real reason, but another if politicians and commentators actively make erroneous claims with the intention of reducing trust.
Electoral system: widespread, decisive voter fraud vs. the long list of ways the electoral system insulates elected officials from public opinion.
Criminal justice: political persecution/two-tiered justice system vs. economic class and race as determinants of judicial outcomes.
These people’s actions and words intend to erode trust then they point to the distrust of institutions they created as evidence that they were right all along.
It’s maddening.
To repeat myself:
I was in town picking up a spark plug and some gear oil when I heard the news that a verdict had been reached. After 15 or 20 mins when they still hadn’t announced, I said “fuck it” and headed for the parts store. When I came out, they announced, “Guilty guilty guilty guilty Guilty guilty guilty guilty Guilty guilty guilty guilty Guilty guilty guilty guilty Guilty guilty guilty guilty Guilty guilty guilty guilty Guilty guilty guilty guilty Guilty guilty!
I bought popcorn (4 me) and drumsticks (4 my wife).
He’ll never see a day in prison but it is a small measure of justice.
@Kingdaddy:
The echoes in the Nutsphere last night were about supposedly tainted jury instructions–that Merchan instructed the jury that the verdict need not be unanimous.
Leave aside that it is a misreading of what the instructions that would make Drake blush. It’s also abundantly unclear how that would actually affect deliberation and the final verdict.
If you don’t get the conviction you love, love the conviction you get.
https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2024/05/wrong-case-right-verdict-trump-guilty/678551/?gift=uSl1q9M95MAeGuZMpRtvfwe78rYFDOa5NcnzPWGcmL8&utm_source=copy-link&utm_medium=social&utm_campaign=share
I just saw a good parody of Truman and the newspaper headline about Dewey:
PUSSY GRABBER TAKEN DOWN BY PECKER
@OzarkHillbilly:
A few legal pundits in short news pieces, have suggested Orangefuhrer may get community service, like picking up trash in the subway.
@OzarkHillbilly:
Nor should he for this conviction. Given his age, his first-time offender/conviction status, and the nature of his crime, he (nor anyone else in similar circumstances should see prison). Nor should he (or anyone else) face a trial tax in terms of sentence.
That said, the probation sentence will be an interesting one.
@mattbernius:
Michael Cohen got prison time for the same crime. And he copped.
@mattbernius: Especially since he’ll have a parole officer to decide whether he can leave the state since he’ll have hang out for the sentencing.
@Kathy: I would be happy to see him picking up trash and dirty, used needles. In fact, I think that’s more effective than sending him to prison. Hard to fundraise off of that image.
@CSK: There is a certain irony in the fact that he was elected due to Weiner and convicted due to Pecker. I take it simply as a sign that he’s a real dick.
https://movieweb.com/donald-trump-guilty-verdict-home-alone-2/
@Kurtz:
NPR said something about jury instructions too. But I was kinda out of it and driving so I didn’t hear what they were saying the problem was. I hope they weren’t picking up some rwnj lunacy.
@Michael Reynolds:
No, Michael Cohen pled guilty in *Federal Court* to a wider range of crimes:
Different crimes. Also, Cohen was at a different point in his life.
(I think you can also argue that Cohen’s sentence was excessive as well.)
@Mr. Prosser:
Yup. And his out-of-state residency also makes things more complex for serving the sentence as well.
So, Trump’s comments about the judge certainly sound like slander to me. Can the judge sue? Or is that not an available remedy for public officials?
@DeD: IMO the best lin from the article you linked to:
We’re seeing here the latest operation of a foundational rule of the Trump era: If you’re a Trump supporter, you will sooner or later be called to jettison any and every principle you ever purported to hold.
@Jen:
And people could drive by and point and laugh at him.
@Paul L.: Why, are you standing by to find out who the jurors are?
@SenyorDave:
Indeed. We’ve been watching that operation since 2016.
@Jen:
I expect it would look much like when he picked his cabinet.
Today, Trump won a popular vote for the first time.
I enjoy the sweet, sweet tears of the MAGA crowd. Every prison is full of people claiming to be innocent.
All the people who complain about these felony convictions never meant a scintilla of their claiming to be in favor of “Law And Order” — indeed, the authorities can and will [and should] come after you when you falsify business documents.
Today is a day when the language asserts the presence of an All-Powerful Enemy; I’m sure tomorrow Democrats will be referred to as effete soy-boys.
@Beth:
I saw it on NBC News before the verdict came down.
@mattbernius:
my understanding is that the rationale for reducing sentencing is that the defendant admits his error, and is deemed unlikely to commit the crime again. How does that apply here?
@Beth:
Here is some more. I don’t know why NBC News didn’t identify the Fox News anchor, but whatever. It was John Roberts. To his credit, he explained in a subsequent post on X that the situation is more nuanced than that.
Of course that did not stop the Nutsphere from complaining the instructions were unfair. Nor did it stop Trump from claiming the same.
Turley called the point of contention “troubling,” but I didn’t see that first hand. Marco Rubio also apparently ran with it. These two, in particular, are…uh…troubling, because one is a law professor* and the other is a US Senator with a JD**.
*Nominally. At this point, it seems as if he is a pundit who moonlights as a law professor rather than the other way around.
**Of course, Rubio launched his political career two years after receiving his law degree, so it is arguable that his sheepskin contains dead letters.
Is anyone making book on how long before convicted felon private citizen Trump throws his lawyers under the bus?
(to Rikers Island)
@Gavin:
You win the internet today.
@Kurtz:
It gets a lot worse if you think about it for two seconds.
1) Wouldn’t Orangefuhrer’s lawyers have objected to the judge giving illegal instructions to the jury? And wouldn’t they have implemented any and all legal remedies available at once? And di we hear a peep from these lawyers about that part of the instructions?
2) Regardless of point 1), if Merchan had done what the deplorables claim, wouldn’t it make for the easiest appeal to win? Not to mention Merchan would be disbarred, and subject to whatever sanctions the state of New York has in the books.
At some point you wonder what the MAGAts use for brains.
@Michael Reynolds:
@Matt Bernius:
I think the pertinent question here is what happens when Orangefuhrer, if given probation, inevitably violates the terms of said probation. For instance, if he’s given X hours of community service, and refuses to perform any of it. Or if he travels without authorization.
@Kathy:..if given probation, inevitably violates the terms of said probation.
Lock Him Up! Lock Him Up! Lock Him Up! Lock Him Up! Lock Him Up! Lock Him Up!
Lock Him Up! Lock Him Up! Lock Him Up! Lock Him Up! Lock Him Up! Lock Him Up!
Lock Him Up! Lock Him Up! Lock Him Up! Lock Him Up! Lock Him Up! Lock Him Up!
Lock Him Up! Lock Him Up! Lock Him Up! Lock Him Up! Lock Him Up! Lock Him Up!
Lock Him Up! Lock Him Up! Lock Him Up! Lock Him Up! Lock Him Up! Lock Him Up!
Lock Him Up! Lock Him Up! Lock Him Up! Lock Him Up!
(I think that’s 34)
The lesson here is that a legal streetfight against someone like Trump is easy to win if you have them to dead to rights on lying and fraud about money, which Bragg did. Not to be a downer, but imagine what would be happening if Biden would have appointed a special prosecutor to investigate Clarence Thomas and his lies about money.
Remember that movie, 48 Hours? Nick Nolte, in that scratchy junk yard dog voice, addresses Eddie Murphy… “Hey, convict.”
Yeah, Donald. Forget being called “sir”. Now it’s, “Hey, convict.” Accountability decades late, but better late than never. Hopefully more accountability to come.
@CSK:
Many people are saying he is the most innocent convicted felon in history.
(a) Hardly anybody understands what crimes Trump committed; most think (partly thanks to lazy journalists who implied it, and partly to Trump propagandists’ deliberate disinformation) he was indicted for paying hush money; and (b) whether misunderstood or not, his crimes were “victimless”. Consequently I expect all the excitement will have been forgotten by the conventions, as other events hit the front pages. People who voted for Trump despite his blatant university fraud, the Access Hollywood tapes and his fines for misusing funds in his own charity aren’t going to be turned off because he did some dodgy book-keeping.
And as a convicted felon he won’t be able to vote in Florida!!!
@Kathy:
Oh, Kathy, that cue-up is too easy:
MIERDA!!! MIERDA TIENEN EN LA CABEZA!!!
@Kurtz:
If that’s all there is to the jury instruction claim, why the hell did NPR launder it? That seems stupid.
It just occurred to me that now that Trump is a convicted felon, President Biden shouldn’t even bother to participate in a debate with this guy. Not that he was before, Trump is not a serious, viable candidate for the office of POTUS. President Biden should call off the debates.
@Paul L:
Geezus, Paul. Drunk again?
@DeD: I’m getting somewhat confident that the gibberish is intentional. And that’s my last comment regarding that subject; it was funny for awhile but now I just skip those posts.
@CSK: Sounds like one hell of a fundraiser.