Trump Unleashes Disgusting Attack On John Dingell And His Widow

Last night, Trump decided it would be a good idea to attack a dead Congressman and his widow.

While the House was voting on impeachment last night, President Trump was at another one of his political rallies in Michigan and for some reason decided it would be a good opportunity to mock the memory of one of the states most well-known politicians and attack his widow:

Less than an hour after being impeached, President Trump suggested during a campaign rally that the late Michigan congressman John Dingell might be “looking up” from hell — remarks that Dingell’s widow said “really hurt.”

“Mr. President, let’s set politics aside,” said Rep. Debbie Dingell (D-Mich.), whose husband, a World War II veteran and the longest-serving member of Congress in U.S. history, died in February at age 92. “My husband earned all his accolades after a lifetime of service. I’m preparing for the first holiday season without the man I love. You brought me down in a way you can never imagine and your hurtful words just made my healing much harder.”

Dingell appeared Thursday morning on CNN, and host Alisyn Camerota queued a clip of Trump’s incendiary remarks with Dingell on a split screen. Her face remained stoic through Trump mimicking her voice in a phone call he made to Dingell after her husband died.

But her eyes closed tightly for a moment when Trump arrived at the line she knew was coming.

“John Dingell loved this country. He believed in bringing everybody together. He believed in our democracy. And my family’s still hurting,” she said.

But Dingell declined to escalate the war of words with Trump, telling Camerota that going “tit-for-tat” would descend to “his level.”

“I don’t want to politicize his death. It is still something that I’m really grieving over,” she said

Trump made the comment while complaining that the congresswoman had voted to impeach him, even though he purportedly gave John Dingell “A-plus treatment” during his memorial services. Trump insisted he did not expect anything in return for such treatment. But he nevertheless expressed disbelief that Debbie Dingell would support impeaching him after she thanked him in a February phone call. At the time, Trump had ordered flags lowered to half-staff.

“So she calls me up: ‘It’s the nicest thing that’s ever happened, thank you so much,’ ” Trump said at the rally, mocking the congresswoman’s voice while recounting their call. (Dingell challenged Trump’s recollection Thursday and said he called her.)

” ‘John would be so thrilled. He’s looking down.’ … I said, ‘That’s okay. Don’t worry about it.’ “

And then: “Maybe he’s looking up, I don’t know.”

The crowd seemed unsure how to respond to Trump’s insult. Some groaned. Some cheered and clapped. Trump quickly added, “But let’s assume he’s looking down.”

Here’s the video:

Meanwhile, White House Press Secretary Stephanie Grisham justified the President’s remarks this way:

There really isn’t a whole lot to say about this. Coming from another President it would be shocking and require an immediate apology. Coming from Trump, who started out his candidacy by attacking John McCain’s military service and went on to attack Mexicans, Muslimsdisabled people, a Federal District Court Judge who happened to be Mexican-American and a Gold Star Family who happened to be Muslim. He also attacked women like Megyn KellyCarly Fiorina, and Heidi Cruz in the crassest and most demeaning manner. In the month before the election, he was caught on tape bragging about an apparent sexual assault and conquest and was later accused of sexual harassment and assault by nearly two dozen women. Most recently, he lashed out at Greta Thunberg, the teenage girl named Time’s Person of The Year for her climate activism. Given this, attacks like this are just part for the course.

At the same time, though, I agree with CNN’s Chris Cillizza that we should not normalize behavior like this:

[W]hy did Trump stoop so incredibly low? Because Debbie Dingell has joined all but three of her Democratic colleagues to vote for both articles of impeachment against him Wednesday evening. That she did so wasn’t a surprise to anyone except perhaps Trump since Dingell has given no signal that she was even considering breaking with her party on either impeachment article.

Trump, it appears, believed Dingell owed him for giving her late husband the “A+” treatment upon his death. It’s not entirely clear what Trump means by “A+” treatment. Dingell did lie in state at the U.S. Capitol — a massive honor, to be sure, but one conferred on him by Congress, not the president. He is apparently hanging his entire claim of “A+ treatment” of Dingell’s passing on the fact that he ordered flag to fly at half-staff. And that he sent a tweet calling Dingell a “highly respected man.”

Which, well, ok.

While Trump’s words are shocking, they aren’t terribly surprising. This is who he is and what he does. He is a bully. With a wicked victim complex. He views the world as divided between people who love him and people who hate him — and he will say and do anything to that latter group because he believes them to be barely human.

What’s far more depressing — and corrosive to our broader culture — is that while some people in the Michigan audience groaned when Trump suggested John Dingell might be in hell, plenty of other laughed and applauded. Trump has so denigrated political speech and so stretched the limits of acceptable conduct that people in that audience felt either the freedom or the compulsion to laugh and applaud when he viciously attacked a dead person.

This isn’t trolling the media. Or the Democrats. Or anyone being a “snowflake” or suffering from “Trump Derangement Syndrome.” This is just gross. And unacceptable.

And it has zero to do with party politics or partisanship. That there are people out there who can’t see that truth is deeply concerning.

Indeed it is. Donald Trump isn’t just changing our politics for the worse, he’s changing our culture for the worse, and Republicans who know better are letting him get away with it. They ought to be ashamed of themselves, but obviously they aren’t.

FILED UNDER: Donald Trump, Politicians, US Politics
Doug Mataconis
About Doug Mataconis
Doug holds a B.A. in Political Science from Rutgers University and J.D. from George Mason University School of Law. He joined the staff of OTB in May 2010. Before joining OTB, he wrote at Below The BeltwayThe Liberty Papers, and United Liberty Follow Doug on Twitter | Facebook

Comments

  1. RaflW says:

    “Mr. President, let’s set politics aside,” or as Axios put it, she ‘hit back‘.

    I know there are bigger fish to fry, but that sort of framing is disgraceful. A vindictive, petty, terrible man attacks a widow, she steps up to say ouch, and some in the press can’t resist making it a ‘both sides’ bout of pugilism. NO.

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  2. Paul L. says:

    So the Chappaquiddick movie should be banned as Hate Speech and defamation for smearing Ted Kennedy?

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  3. ed pyett says:

    Trump gave Dingell a state funeral
    he didnt have to
    then his widow attacked Trump re impeachment
    Trump right again

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  4. al Ameda says:

    STEPHANIE GRISHAM: “As we all know, the president is a counter-puncher. It was a very supportive and wild crowd. He was just riffing.”

    TRANSLATION from the original Russian:
    “Look, you all have known for a long time that Trump is an amoral and vindictive person, and now you’re surprised?”

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  5. DrDaveT says:

    @ed pyett: The insights you provide into how Trump followers think are fascinating. Disturbing, but fascinating — sort of like reading an Oliver Sacks book.

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  6. mattbernius says:

    Radley Balko summed up this really nicely and connects this to a broader pattern:

    Trump’s attack on Dingell only underscores the impeachment case against him. For Trump, *everything* is transactional, even a kindness paid to a widow. He grants no favors without expectation of a personal benefit. Which of course exactly what he was doing with Zelensky.

    https://twitter.com/radleybalko/status/1207682693183528960

    What’s equally telling is how well Dingell’s close friends who are Republican’s reacted to this. See Republican Fred Upton’s “scathing” rebuke on twitter:

    I’ve always looked up to John Dingell – my good friend and a great Michigan legend. There was no need to ‘dis’ him in a crass political way. Most unfortunate and an apology is due.

    https://twitter.com/RepFredUpton/status/1207508437376143361

    Notice how Rep Upton somehow forgot to “@” someone in that tweet? Or perhaps he doesn’t know that Individual 1 has a twitter account.

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  7. Daryl and his brother Darryl says:

    @ed pyett:

    Trump gave Dingell a state funeral

    No…he didn’t.
    Once again it is proven…you can’t support Trump without lying to do it.
    Period.

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  8. Sleeping Dog says:

    Tiny sinks to new low on another day ending in ‘y’

    One of the these days (hopefully soon) Tiny is going to die. As a former Prez he will be entitled and will receive a state funeral, I expect it will be sparsely attended.

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  9. Daryl and his brother Darryl says:

    @Paul L.:

    So the Chappaquiddick movie should be banned as Hate Speech and defamation for smearing Ted Kennedy?

    You’re not smart.

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  10. Kathy says:

    after being given a pass for breaking up families, putting children in cages without adequate medical care or even a place to sleep, this is supposed to generate outrage? Not to mention the massive abuse of power in using foreign policy for his private gain.

    Oh, it is outrageous, and reveals Dennison, again, as a complete asshole. But at this stage in the game, the norms the Republicans are helping set up are far, far worse.

    One can only hope they’ll bite them in the ass later.

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  11. ed pyett says:

    @DrDaveT:

    “WASHINGTON — A funeral mass will be held next Thursday for former Rep. John Dingell in the nation’s capital before his interment at Arlington National Cemetery.”

    … and Hillary lost

    https://www.freep.com/story/news/local/michigan/2019/02/08/john-dingell-funeral/2816228002/
    @Daryl and his brother Darryl:

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  12. ed pyett says:

    @DrDaveT: @DrDaveT:

    Hillary lost

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  13. CSK says:

    It’s par for the course.

    It’s also par for the coarse.

    There is no end to Trump’s loathsomeness.

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  14. Daryl and his brother Darryl says:

    @ed pyett:
    It was NOT a State Funeral.
    It was held at a church in DC, the nations capital, and the motorcade drove by the Capital Building.
    You, sir, are a liar.
    If you cannot support your position without lying, you don’t have much of a position to support.

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  15. wr says:

    @ed pyett: “Trump gave Dingell a state funeral
    he didnt have to then his widow attacked Trump re impeachment Trump right again”

    Hey, you illiterate asshole,

    The state funeral is a function of the government. It’s not Trump’s little personal gift to give away or not and it wasn’t a personal favor to Debbie Dingell. He was briefly doing what the job demands of him. But it’s pretty easy to see why creeps like you don’t have a problem with Trump selling out national security to get a leg up in the election — you clearly think that he can do whatever he wants and doesn’t have to do anything he doesn’t. Because you have a five year old’s view of the job. Which matches your spelling and punctuation.

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  16. wr says:

    @Sleeping Dog: “As a former Prez he will be entitled and will receive a state funeral, I expect it will be sparsely attended.”

    As one Hollywood wag — often attributed to Billy Wilder, but also to many others — observed seeing the huge crowds at the funeral for Columbia Pictures chief Harry Cohn, one of the most hated people in the biz, “give the people what they want to see and they’ll turn out.”

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  17. wr says:

    @Daryl and his brother Darryl: “You’re not smart.”

    Yes, but he looks much smarter now that he’s got his mouth-breathing buddy Ed here to parrot the same loathsome Red State bullshit, but now with 80% more illiteracy.

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  18. steve says:

    This is all about his base. They love this.

    Steve

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  19. Kathy says:

    @wr:

    His death ought to bring Melania the Trophy Widow some money. I figure she can charge as much as $50 for 5 minutes of dancing on the grave.

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  20. mattbernius says:

    @Daryl and his brother Darryl:
    To your point:

    Trump was upset because he said that he gave her the “A-plus treatment, not the B treatment or the C treatment” after her husband, longtime U.S. Rep. John Dingell, D-Michigan, died in February. He called for flags to be lowered and said he offered up the Capitol Rotunda for his memorial.

    Trump seemed to say the word “Rotunda,” as if he had something to do with John Dingell’s lying in state at the U.S. Capitol. But Dingell didn’t lie in state before a funeral in Washington and his burial at Arlington National Cemetery and, even if he had, control of the Rotunda belongs to the Congress, not to the president.

    https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/2019/12/19/donald-trump-bashes-debbie-dingell-john-dingell-battle-creek-rally/2696014001/

    Beyond that, if someone is arguing that any of the above means that the President (or anyone) deserves unquestioning loyalty regardless of other actions really tells us more about their transactional thinking than anything else.

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  21. Daryl and his brother Darryl says:

    @wr:
    He didn’t even do it.
    Trump allowed the flag to be flown at half-staff. That’s it.
    Later he signed into law a Conservation Area named after Dingle, but it had passed both houses with overwhelming and veto-proof majorities.
    Dingell was buried at Arlington because he was a Veteran, unlike Cadet Bone Spurs…the draft dodger in the White House.

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  22. Paul L. says:

    @Daryl and his brother Darryl:
    So yes, the Chappaquiddick movie should be banned as Hate Speech and defamation for smearing Ted Kennedy and talking about a dead man!?

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  23. Michael Reynolds says:

    Have you guys seen that Christianity Today, the magazine founded by Billy Graham, circulation 130,000 evangelicals, just called for Trump’s removal?

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  24. DrDaveT says:

    @ed pyett:

    Hillary lost

    I’m trying to fathom how someone could actually feel that this fact is relevant in this conversation. As I said before, disturbing but fascinating.

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  25. Teve says:

    @Michael Reynolds: that’s a heckin surprise.

  26. Teve says:

    @DrDaveT: he hasn’t updated his software. He’s still running TrumpChump v2017.

  27. Kathy says:

    @Michael Reynolds:

    Oh, so this magazine was taken over by Democrats? 😛

    Seriously, it’s good to see, but I’m afraid it will be a one-off with little effect. If they mean what they say, though they also say they don’t often interfere in politics, they should press for his removal strongly, and for his defeat in 2020.

  28. ed pyett says:

    @Daryl and his brother Darryl:

    Trump allowed Dingell all privile@wr: ges @Daryl and his brother Darryl:

    Tump allowed Dingell all privileges he was entitled to

    Hillary will never be POTUS
    Trump 2020
    Don Jr. 2024

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  29. Kathy says:

    Quick Trump Joke of the Day:

    Q: How many Donald Trumps does it take to screw-in a light bulb?

    A: Trick Question! You can’t really screw a light bulb.

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  30. Michael Reynolds says:

    @Kathy: @Teve:
    One thing it does is give a little bit of cover for pastors around the country. The part that will land with some of those guys is:

    To use an old cliché, it’s time to call a spade a spade, to say that no matter how many hands we win in this political poker game, we are playing with a stacked deck of gross immorality and ethical incompetence. And just when we think it’s time to push all our chips to the center of the table, that’s when the whole game will come crashing down. It will crash down on the reputation of evangelical religion and on the world’s understanding of the gospel. And it will come crashing down on a nation of men and women whose welfare is also our concern.

    [My bold]
    These aren’t smart people, it’s takes them a very long time to process. But it may just finally have occurred to them what has been obvious: Trumpism is a danger to Christianity, it is idolatry, it is heresy and if as expected he gets off in the Senate, they’ll have four more years of seeing themselves conflated with an unhinged, hate-fueled piece of shit. Not to mention that it’s hard to grow a church when everyone under age 21 thinks you’re a bunch of racist, woman-hating assholes.

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  31. Teve says:

    @Michael Reynolds: I posted a link in the Open Thread, the latest generation of Americans isn’t even 50% christian.

  32. EddieInCA says:

    At the risk of sounding like a broken record, this is catnip to his base.

    If you head over to NR, Hot Air, The Resurgent, The Federalist, RedState, and a few other sites, you will see how unhinged from reality their world view is. On Fox this morning, they didn’t even mention the Dingell episode until Brett Baier, as a guest, had to bring it up, and he brought a (soft) hammer down on Trump. The the rest of F&Friends assholes ignored it. Completely.

    At some point the media has to start calling these people what they are…. deplorable.

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  33. Teve says:

    @EddieInCA: I checked lucianne around mid afternoon and no mention.

  34. Michael Reynolds says:

    Trump’s base is irrelevant. What they want or enjoy doesn’t matter. The 60% of the country that has not accepted Donald Trump as their personal savior matters.

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  35. ed pyett says:

    @EddieInCA:

    Pelosi can’t afford new dentures
    her district is covered in human waste

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  36. senyordave says:

    Just a thought:
    I have seen reports that indicate that Trump’s remarks about Dingell did not go over well with some people at his rally. If only 2% of the people there walk away thinking that was a pretty shitty thing to say it is a small victory. I doubt Obama ever had a rally as president where he said anything where his supporters walked away thinking “WTF”.
    Maybe I’m being overly optimistic that a person who attends a Trump rally would be affected long term by anything he says, but as he continues to go off the rails he does look more pathetic each day.
    Any chance to poke him should be taken by the Democrats.

  37. ed pyett says:

    @senyordave:

    2% of the crowd at last Trump rally would be bigger than all Democrat 2020 candidate rallies combined for rest of campaign
    Hillary couldn’t fill a phone booth
    and Biden does not know what state he is in

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  38. EddieInCA says:

    @ed pyett:

    @EddieInCA:

    Pelosi can’t afford new dentures
    her district is covered in human waste

    California 12th Congressional District:
    100.0% urban 0.0% rural
    12th District Median income: $111,717 USA Median Income: $68,400

    44.0% white
    6.3% black
    33.4% Asian
    14.7% Hispanic
    1.7% other
    D+37

    You are a liar. But expected from a Trumpaloon.

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  39. Michael Reynolds says:

    @ed pyett:
    I’m sorry, you think San Francisco is some kind of dystopian wasteland? San Francisco where the average starter home is 1.6 million dollars? That San Francisco?

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  40. CSK says:

    @Teve: They’re still avoiding it. No surprise. If you’re a paid-up member of Cult45, you have to ignore Trump’s constant offenses against basic decency. Unless you’re one of the real degenerates who celebrates them as evidence of his authenticity.

  41. Jax says:

    @ed pyett: Ya know, now that you mention it, Michelle Obama would be a great pick for Vice President to President Elizabeth Warren.

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  42. Jax says:

    Sorry, guys, he’s new and I want to see him squeal a little, show off his inner racist/misogynist. 😉

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  43. ed pyett says:

    @EddieInCA:

    search San Francisco poop map
    many sources
    yes ..overflowing with human waste

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  44. ed pyett says:

    @Michael Reynolds:

    search San Francisco poop map
    many sources

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  45. Teve says:

    @Jax: Michelle as Veep would be excellent.

    WARREN 2020!

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  46. ed pyett says:

    @Jax:

    Liewatha & Mooch versus Hillary for DNC nomination

    Ghengis Khan vs Vlad the Impaler

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  47. Kathy says:

    @Jax:

    The old bots were better, more human. This one thinks Trump lives in San Francisco!

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  48. Jax says:

    @ed pyett: Mmmm. I do appreciate the warrior analogies. Much better than Don the Pussy Grabber, Sir President of Bone Spurs, right? More terrifying and scary.

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  49. ed pyett says:

    @Jax:

    Juanita Broaddrick | Kathleen Willey | Paula Jones | Sandra Allen James | Eileen Wellstone | Christy Zercher | Carolyn Moffet | Helen Dowdy | Becky Brown | Regina Blakely Hopper | Monica Lewinsky | Elizabeth Ward Gracen | Gennifer Flowers | Connie Hamzy | Dolly Kyle Browning | Sally Miller (Sally Perdue) | Lencola Sullivan

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  50. An Interested Party says:

    Yet another war hero trashed by a lying coward who weaseled his way out of serving his country…ultimately, as mentioned above, one of the greatest impacts of this trash in the White House will be how low he brings all of those who support him…supporting him strongly tarnishes Republicans, evangelicals, and other groups, and history will not view these people and groups very kindly…

  51. Jax says:

    @ed pyett: Ahhhh…..so you’ve resorted to throwing feces against the wall? Perfect.

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  52. ed pyett says:

    @Jax:

    ?
    no
    Schiftless does that from his bunker

  53. Jax says:

    @ed pyett: Would you like me to list ALLLLL of the women who have credibly accused President Bone Spurs of sexual assault? It’s not going to change your mind, though, is it?

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  54. Jax says:

    @ed pyett: You would think, after Bill Clinton’s example, that y’all (I did that for the linguists from a previous thread, you’re welcome 😉 ) would know better than to elect someone like Trump. The last sexual harrasser got impeached, so will this one.

    You did us one better on this guy, though, he’s a full criminal.

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  55. ed pyett says:

    @Jax:

    …..go ahead
    name ALLL of them
    hope you are faster than Nancy delivers super urgent rush impeachment to Senate

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  56. MarkedMan says:

    @Kathy: Q: How many mice does it take to screw in a light bulb?
    A: Just two, but how the heck did they get in there?

  57. Jax says:

    @ed pyett: Why would she rush it? She can keep those impeachment articles as long as she wants, and keep calling witnesses, gathering information, and adding additional articles of impeachment.

    Do you really think Trump can go that long without violating the Constitution and/or many state/federal laws?

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  58. Mister Bluster says:

    @Jax:..The last sexual harrasser got impeached, so will this one.

    This one HAS BEEN IMPEACHED! Yesterday, Wednesday December 18, 2019!

  59. ed pyett says:

    yes she can keep those impeachment articles as long as she wants
    Senate decides final impeachment decision…until then zilch
    few hours ago a super rush to save the country
    today Nance throws out the anchor…full stop

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  60. Jax says:

    @ed pyett: He’s been as impeached as Bill Clinton was. 😉

  61. Jax says:

    @ed pyett: The difference being I highly doubt Clinton got into any consensual agreements with interns after his impeachment. Do you think Trump can stop violating the law/Constitution….EVER?

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  62. ed pyett says:

    “I highly doubt Clinton got into any consensual agreements with interns after his impeachment”

    ?
    who in hell cares?

    no law or Constitutional issue stated in Schiftless crayon written impeachment
    total gibberish fog

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  63. Jax says:

    @ed pyett: Sooooo….did you read the transcript?

  64. ed pyett says:

    @Jax:

    no…Wolff Blitzer & Don Lemon told me

    mmmm…did you read it?

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  65. Mister Bluster says:

    @ed pyett:..Senate decides final impeachment decision…

    NO! That is incorrect! The House of Representatives has already made the final impeachment decision. Trump HAS BEEN IMPEACHED! per the United States Constitution.
    Impeachment is not removal from office.

  66. ed pyett says:

    @Mister Bluster:
    wrong
    House investigates
    Senate decides

    even Anderson Cooper knows that

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  67. Lynn says:

    Would someone let me know when the idiot trolls leave? While I enjoy reading opinions that are different than mine, I’m not interested in wasting my time on the inanities posted by pyett or his ilk.

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  68. ed pyett says:

    @Lynn:

    Roswell Rachell show is on
    MSNBC needs the numbers

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  69. Mister Bluster says:

    United States Constitution
    Article I, Section 2, Paragraph 5.
    The House of Representatives shall chuse their Speaker and other Officers; and shall have the sole Power of Impeachment.

    Impeachment is an accusation or indictment. It is not removal from office.

    Then after the President (Bill Clinton, Donald Trump, Andrew Johnson) has been successfully impeached by the House of Representatives (see above re: sole Power of Impeachment)

    Then the Senate tries the President who has already been impeached.

    Article I, Section 3, Paragraph 6
    The Senate shall have the sole Power to try all Impeachments.

  70. ed pyett says:

    ok
    “The Senate shall have the sole Power to try all Impeachments”
    and if they try and acquit he is not impeached

  71. ed pyett says:

    @Mister Bluster:

    …ok
    “The Senate shall have the sole Power to try all Impeachments”
    and if they try and acquit he is not impeached

  72. Jax says:

    @Lynn: Sorry, I was mostly trying to see if he was a real troll or one of those deep fake AI trolls. I suspect he’s real.

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  73. Jax says:

    @ed pyett: Even if they acquit in the Senate, he is still impeached, just like Bill Clinton. It’s the exact same thing. 😉 Clinton was impeached in the House and the Senate did not remove him.

  74. Teve says:

    @Jax: he’s real all right. Real dumb.

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  75. ed pyett says:

    @Jax:

    from Kenya real

  76. Jax says:

    @ed pyett: So according to YOUR understanding of how this works, Clinton was never impeached, since the Senate did not remove him?

    You can only have it one way, dude.

  77. Jax says:

    @Teve: I always wonder how they stumble across our little corner of the internet…..

  78. Guarneri says:

    Get psychological help, people. Please. You have become empty shells of human beings. Take Nancy with you.

    That poor elderly woman is spinning in her chair. I loved the Turtles smirk on his face as he responded to her, snicker, demands.

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  79. Jax says:

    @Guarneri: Judging by Trump’s twitter feed, someone’s spinning…..

    Might not be us that need psychological help. 😉

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  80. Just nutha ignint cracker says:

    @Paul L.: Wow! Just when I hoped that no one could go lower than Trump already had you show up. Sad. Pathetic. Low Energy. Little Sad Paul Low Energy.

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  81. Just nutha ignint cracker says:

    @Michael Reynolds: As a former subscriber (back in the early 80s), I see the move as the same one that some conservatives are trying to do related to Trump. They want to create enough distance so that they can say “this isn’t who we are.” And while I agree with their stand that they should stay out of politics, they’re going to need to join in the fray because while they might hope that this isn’t who they are, it’s who they’re going to be understood to be. They said nothing for too long and have now discovered they can’t leave the train because there aren’t any stops coming up.

    ETA: They should have thrown Falwell Sr, Ralph Reed, and Dr. Kennedy under the bus back in the day. Then, they could have stayed above the fray. Now, I’m not sure they can.

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  82. An Interested Party says:

    “The Senate shall have the sole Power to try all Impeachments”
    and if they try and acquit he is not impeached

    Good grief! Not even Tyrell types shit as stupid as that…

    Get psychological help, people.

    You should send that message to your hero, who has gone completely nuts about impeachment…but, just as he uses projection in every insult he levels against anyone else, you are obviously following his lead…

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  83. ed pyett says:

    @An Interested Party:

    “The Constitution doesn’t say how fast the articles must go to the Senate. Some modest delay is not inconsistent with the Constitution, or how both chambers usually work.

    But an indefinite delay would pose a serious problem. Impeachment as contemplated by the Constitution does not consist merely of the vote by the House, but of the process of sending the articles to the Senate for trial. Both parts are necessary to make an impeachment under the Constitution: The House must actually send the articles and send managers to the Senate to prosecute the impeachment. And the Senate must actually hold a trial.

    If the House does not communicate its impeachment to the Senate, it hasn’t actually impeached the president. If the articles are not transmitted, Trump could legitimately say that he wasn’t truly impeached at all.”

    Bloomber Opinion Dec 19

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  84. An Interested Party says:

    @ed pyett: No wonder you’re confused…you’re making the false assumption that Pelosi will never send the articles of impeachment to the Senate…

  85. ed pyett says:

    @An Interested Party:

    you are struggling
    let me help
    as of right now Trump is not impeached

  86. Jax says:

    @ed pyett: Trump will go down in the history books as being impeached by the United States House of Representatives on December 18, 2019. There is nothing you can do that will stop that.

    Do you think Trump can stop committing crimes long enough to not be removed by the Senate?

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  87. de stijl says:

    It’s what he does.

    Roy Cohn taught him.

  88. ed pyett says:

    @Jax:

    perhaps he will be impeached
    crime?
    name a crime
    Schiff could not
    his witnesses could not

  89. Mister Bluster says:

    Even your boyfriend Trump knows what’s going on. And as you know he is never wrong!

    “Can you believe that I will be impeached today…” Donald Trump

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  90. Jax says:

    @ed pyett: Surely there has to be a limit to what you’re willing to accept, right? Or is it all good because he’s “your team”? What would be the dividing line, for you, since he’s already admitted in his own transcript (yes, I’ve read it, and had to actually print it out for people like you to read, as paper, in your own hands, straight from the whitehouse.gov website) that he wanted Ukraine to investigate his political rivals in exchange for military aid that was already approved by Congress?

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  91. Mister Bluster says:

    Grabbing women by the pvssy is a crime. It is sexual assault. He admitted to that.

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  92. ed pyett says:

    @Jax:

    and he will beat every Democrat candidate running today in a landslide
    for a real knee slapper watch tonights debate
    please God…make Hill run

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  93. ed pyett says:

    @Jax:

    Pelosi made demands on Mitch & Senate in return for impeachment articles
    quid pro qou

    Obama sent $150 billion cash , gold to Iran ..no Congress approval
    Obama sent guns to Mexican drug cartels
    Hillary cut deal with Putin for uranium..her scam foundation got $150 million

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  94. gVOR08 says:

    @Michael Reynolds I wasn’t able to confirm this at the magazines website, but NYT has a story up about it and note the website crashed. They note that while Billy Graham had a hand in launching the magazine, his kid, Franklin, who took over the family business, has condemned the magazine. NYT cite 99% of evangelicals oppose impeachment. Ain’t likely to change.

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  95. ed pyett says:

    @Jax:

    Pelosi made demands on Mitch & Senate in return for impeachment articles
    quid pro quo

    Obama sent $150 billion cash , gold to Iran ..no Congress approval
    Obama sent guns to Mexican drug cartels
    Hillary cut deal with Putin for uranium..her scam foundation got $150 million

  96. de stijl says:

    We should not be perpetually dismayed when Trump breaks socially acceptable boundaries around criticism.

    He has done it routinely for decades.

    He was elected because of it.

    He is a shit person. He revels in it. He was trained in it.

    *It is his preferred space.*

    He likes being slagged by the likes of a Rosie O’Donnell type. It revs his engines. Page 6.

    He views this as a continuation.

  97. Michael Reynolds says:

    @gVOR08:
    We’re playing at the margins here. A very small drop in in the number of evangelicals who love him translates to 3 or 4 points in the polls. He needs not just support but enthusiasm and unity. I’ll hazard a guess that the Mormon equivalent of Christianity Today and the Roman Catholic counterpart as well will join in.

  98. Jax says:

    @ed pyett: Sigh. Have you met Paul L. ? You guys are probably already friends over there on….whatever sites you depend on for your actual fake news.

    Experiment finished. 😉

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  99. de stijl says:

    I don’t believe in hell, but if there was one, Trump would go there.

    He is a willfully shitty person. In fact, he wears it as a badge of honor and pride and self.

    Trump didn’t just say or act like an asshole today.

    He is an asshole everyday on purpose and will say anything to save himself.

    Do not be shocked and surprised when he behaves like an asshole. He is one 24/7.

  100. HarvardLaw92 says:

    @Michael Reynolds:

    Indeed. While I’ll stipulate that there is indeed a stand on principle here, Nancy is also a consummate politician. She’s Big Tommy D’Alesandro’s daughter – gamesmanship was something she learned in her cradle within the crucible of Baltimore politics.

    She’s known from the start that there is nothing – absolutely nothing – that the Senate will convict on. It has never been about the expectation that he would be removed. It’s been about using the process and the discovery to ensure that he doesn’t get re-elected.

    Remember that Trump’s victory came down to a little under 78,000 votes in three states. Remove that tiny slice of voters and he loses. We know – and more importantly she knows – that our job now is to peel off voters from the GOP wherever we can find them. Disenchanted suburban white women? Check. Rust Belters who are finally beginning to realize that the steel mill is going to stay closed and Grovers Corners is still rotting away along with their dreams? Check. Farmers who got kicked in the teeth in the name of a pointless trade war? Check. Evangelicals who are finally, maybe, beginning to realize that they’ll be bathed in the same stench all the while they were getting sold down the river (again)? Check.

    Pennsylvania. Wisconsin. Michigan. Three states who elected Trump by 78,000 votes and in which now Trump is underwater. There are others …

    What she’s doing now is trying to attach Republican senators to that dying brand. Want to be associated with a no witnesses Soviet style show trial? No problem, but you get to have that hung around your neck right on through to November. The alternative is a trial with witnesses who’ll either perjure themselves or be barred from testifying. Holy grail? We get Trump goaded into testifying, which believe me he is dying to do. Track odds bets on how long it will take the former federal prosecutors we’re going to name as managers to get Trump, under pressure and on live TV, to explode …

    It’s not enough to sabotage Trump’s reelection. We have to use it, to whatever extent possible, to drag the whole rotting party down with him. She knows this. She’s a D’Alesandro. She’ll deliver.

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  101. de stijl says:

    @Jax:

    Disengage.

    It’s not worth it.

  102. de stijl says:

    @HarvardLaw92:

    You are straight analytical objective.

    And then super hardcore.

    Approve.

    If you are hardcore, you don’t care about approval, btw. Approval means shit.

  103. Kit says:

    @HarvardLaw92:
    Do you have any interesting insights you could share concerning the various lawsuits against Trump currently wending their way through the courts?

  104. Kylopod says:

    @ed pyett:

    and he will beat every Democrat candidate running today in a landslide….

    please God…make Hill run

    That last line of yours suggests you are not quite as confident about the first assertion as you pretend.

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  105. ed pyett says:

    @Kylopod:

    you are half right

    for a favor from Hill one should pray to Satan

    i stand corrected

    was also considering the entertainment value of it all…would be a non stop whack loon insane asylum circus

  106. ed pyett says:

    @Kylopod:

    last night debate…Biden just lost the rust belt , flyover country

    QUESTION: “Would you be willing to sacrifice…hundreds of thousands of blue collar workers in that transitioning to that greener economy?”

    BIDEN: “The answers yes.”

  107. CSK says:

    @ed pyett:
    Like most Trump fans, Ed, you are not literate.

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  108. Kylopod says:

    @ed pyett: This was what I wrote last night on a forum (PoliticalWire) as soon as I heard him say that:

    “Republicans are going to use that Biden answer out of context, just like they did with Hillary and coal.”

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  109. SC_Birdflyte says:

    Careful now, Donald. You’re playing with fire. As the evidence of how unbalanced you truly are becomes clearer and clearer, who knows what unanticipated consequences might result? If I were Pelosi and Schumer, I’d be talking discreetly to Romney, Collins, McSally, and Gardner about challenging Turtleface’s efforts to jigger the rules of the trial.

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  110. An Interested Party says:

    @ed pyett: Again, you’re confused…a person who is really struggling types things like…

    Tump allowed Dingell all privileges he was entitled to

    or

    Pelosi can’t afford new dentures
    her district is covered in human waste

    or

    2% of the crowd at last Trump rally would be bigger than all Democrat 2020 candidate rallies combined for rest of campaign
    Hillary couldn’t fill a phone booth
    and Biden does not know what state he is in

    …and I hate to break it to you, but if you really want to see “a non stop whack loon insane asylum circus”, all you need to do is look at the Trump Administration, which is full of clowns…

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  111. ed pyett says:

    @HarvardLaw92:

    wow…Putin needed only 78,000 votes in three states to buy the election!
    Trump works cheap
    Hillary outsmarted Trump…she got $150 million from Putin for uranium that wasn’t hers

    see NYT article..Cash Flowed to Clinton Foundation

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  112. ed pyett says:

    @An Interested Party:

    debate last night

    QUESTION: “Would you be willing to sacrifice…hundreds of thousands of blue collar workers in that transitioning to that greener economy?”

    BIDEN: “The answers yes.”

  113. @Guarneri:

    Get psychological help, people. Please. You have become empty shells of human beings.

    Says the fellow whose contribution tends to be a drive-by insult.

    It is an odd pattern: you go out of your way to drop some put-down in a discussion thread and then scamper off.

    What’s the point?

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  114. An Interested Party says:

    wow…Putin needed only 78,000 votes in three states to buy the election!

    No, of course not, Ukraine was behind it…

    Trump works cheap

    Yes, cheap whores often do…

    Hillary outsmarted Trump…she got $150 million from Putin for uranium that wasn’t hers

    Yet another lie…

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  115. Mikey says:

    Why is everyone engaging with this latest semiliterate assclown? Just point and laugh and walk away.

  116. de stijl says:

    @Steven L. Taylor:

    Dude is a perpetual line stepper.

    Respond as you will, but line stepper may need a show of dominance.

    (My phone wanted “shoe of dominance” which is both funny and fits.)

    Future historians will look back at this era with awe. Everyone suddenly became correspondents. That is rare. Most of it is responsenses saying “Shut up f*g”, but there is always dross and slag to make metal.

    (Or as autocorrect decided “cross and slang”)

    Future historians will also have to maneuver through late 2010’s autocorrections.

    At least with hieroglyphs you prepared and edited well. The edit function had not been invented yet.

    If you meant to etch fish adder eye adder sun cat crocodile into stone with a chisel, you’d best get it correct. Fish eye adder adder sun crocodile cat is ungrammitical.

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  117. Teve says:

    @Mikey: everyone ain’t. But if you’ve got, say, 50 regular commenters, it’s guaranteed that a few will.

  118. Daryl and his brother Darryl says:

    @Kathy:

    Quick Trump Joke of the Day:
    Q: How many Donald Trumps does it take to screw-in a light bulb?

    The actual answer;
    He wouldn’t actually change the light bulb, but would tell you he did, and that it was the best ever. Then his supporters would sit in the pitch black and marvel at the wonderous light Trump has provided.

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  119. Gustopher says:

    @Steven L. Taylor:

    It is an odd pattern: you go out of your way to drop some put-down in a discussion thread and then scamper off.

    What’s the point?

    Low-energy trolling? Posting more to amuse himself rather than engage?

    It’s nicer than those who are willfully deluded and stick around repeating lies… I want a better set of conservative commenters. We have a few libertarians and people who are mostly moderate Democrats, and I appreciate them even when I don’t agree with them, but… then a huge gulf before we get to the shores of crazy land.

    From time to time I wonder if I am in a crazy bubble of lies rather than them, and have to fact check some random thing that I know is false just to make sure I’m not the delusional one.

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  120. ed pyett says:

    @Daryl and his brother Darryl:

    Green New Deal will ensure candle light for all
    when not beside a wood fire for heat

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  121. Michael Reynolds says:

    @Steven L. Taylor: @Gustopher:
    A big part of his behavior is some history with little old me. Long ago Drew and I used to hang out at Schuler’s blog. Then Schuler said something which stuck in Drew’s craw and stuck bad. He said (paraphrasing) that in terms of IQ I was the smartest guy in the room (presumably excepting himself.)

    Well!

    Guarneri, formerly Drew, is a guy who thought he was a master of the universe. Lots of swagger. Lots of boasting. A bit like me, actually. He used to say we should get together for drinks. But that slight drew blood – Drew’s got Trump’s same level of emotional security, roughly first year of middle school. Now he’s afraid of me, because his swagger is just swagger, there’s nothing to back it up and he knows it.

    He wants desperately to be respected but does nothing to earn it. He wants to be seen as brilliant but he doesn’t have the candle power. He already knows he fucked up backing Trump, he knows he can’t defend his position, but he’s too weak to ever admit he screwed up. He comes here, gets his brains beat in by whoever happens to be hanging around at the moment, then slinks off quickly while he can still pretend to have said something clever.

    Like all Trumpies he wants to reconcile two things which cannot be reconciled: to be taken seriously by serious people, and to lick Trump’s balls and somehow convince all of us that we too should want to lick Trump’s balls. Poor dumb cultie.

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  122. Kit says:

    @Gustopher:

    I want a better set of conservative commenters

    It’s like some sort of video game, but where the boss of each new level gets weaker. Our latest doesn’t need arguments but rather for us to pass along the hat so he can take a remedial English class.

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  123. Teve says:

    @Gustopher:

    I want a better set of conservative commenters.

    There are better conservatives, like the people at The Bulwark. But there aren’t good, smart people who defend Trump. For the same reason that there aren’t good, smart doctors who defend Meningitis.

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  124. Daryl and his brother Darryl says:

    @Gustopher:

    I want a better set of conservative commenters.

    The trouble is that to support Trump you have to be tragically ill-informed, stupid, or an abject liar.
    None of those makes for a good commenter.

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  125. HarvardLaw92 says:

    @ed pyett:

    I’m sorry, what in the world gave you the idea that I would take you seriously? Trundle on along now, thanks for playing.

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  126. de stijl says:

    @Michael Reynolds:

    Well earned disregard is the best kind.

    No guilt.

    Ignore, forget, move on.

  127. HarvardLaw92 says:

    @Kit:

    Do you have any interesting insights you could share concerning the various lawsuits against Trump currently wending their way through the courts?

    Which ones? There are no less than 51 of them at my last count, touching a variety of areas.

    I’ll assume that you mean the ones concerning the subpoenas duces tecum seeking his financial and tax records. He doesn’t have much of a leg to stand on, in my opinion. SCOTUS has been more than clear, in United States v. Nixon, that, while the executive may assert privilege regarding certain information on specific, legitimate bases, the court does not recognize any grant of absolute immunity from legal process simply because he’s the president. Most especially with regard to activities which took place before he even became the president. Simply asserting that he’ll be embarrassed or harassed is woefully inadequate.

    With regard to New York State, while the court may give credence to the (in my opinion flawed) dictum that a sitting president may not be indicted, it is an enormous stretch to further find that a sitting president is immune from legal process altogether – in simper terms, we may possibly not be able to indict you while you’re the president (at least until you’re out of office), nothing stops us from investigating your actions and building that case while you’re the president. Clinton didn’t get to ignore a grand jury, and neither does Trump.

    With regard to Congress itself, I do not see the court inserting itself into defining what is and is not permissible with respect to Congress exercising its constitutionally mandated oversight role. I expect them to find that is not a justiciable question. In simpler terms, the Constitution empowers Congress to exert oversight over the executive, and leaves the determination of what is appropriate with regard to fulfilling that duty up to Congress itself. The courts do not have a role in arbitrating that function.

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  128. Mike in Arlington says:

    @HarvardLaw92: Do you read anything into the fact that SCOTUS didn’t just reverse the lower court cases? It seems like it’s 1) not a new question, b) poorly reasoned and III) all of the lower courts are more or less in agreement; making it a case that, at least I would think, wouldn’t rise to the level of SCOTUS review, unless they think the lower courts got something wrong.

  129. de stijl says:

    @Daryl and his brother Darryl: @Gustopher:

    I’m kinda a little c conservative.

    I like the lists and ticking off the boxes. Plans, back-up plans, withdrawal plans.

    But when must, act boldly too.

    Policy wise, I favor the outcome I prefer and the person with the best plan. Which creates internal tension at times.

    On core policy, I prefer new incrementalism. With plan B, and a backout.

    Socially, I am open and supportive of anyone of good will.

    On policy implementation I will advocate for planned incrementalism. That’s who I am. But on the wonky tax type stuff. On social issues, I am equality, justice, and fairness now and forever. All are welcome.

    Does that make me a moderate?

    Can one be a little c conservative little r radical? Cuz that’s sort of me.

    With a plan, of course.

  130. HarvardLaw92 says:

    @SC_Birdflyte:

    If I were Pelosi and Schumer, I’d be talking discreetly to Romney, Collins, McSally, and Gardner about challenging Turtleface’s efforts to jigger the rules of the trial.

    In my opinion, this is entirely what the delay is about – allowing time for dissension to build within Republican ranks, and for public opprobrium to exert pressure on those moderate Republican senators who are as concerned with legitimate process (and to some extent, their own legacies) as they are with party loyalty and re-election. Remember that we only need for four of them to break ranks to impose rule changes, and that’s the ballgame.

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  131. HarvardLaw92 says:

    @Mike in Arlington:

    To be honest, I’m somewhat surprised myself that they granted cert, but I’ve concluded that it only requires four votes, and the predictable four horsemen are enough to accomplish that, however ill advised it might have been.

    I do not see the John Roberts that I know and respect overturning Nixon. No surprises to be received there.

  132. de stijl says:

    @ed pyett:

    I dislike that your name is ed pyett.

    Don’t change it or anything, It’s not anything personal at all. I have no absolutelty zero call on lowercase nyms.

    It’s just when scrolling, ed pyett catches me eye when I quick scroll down. ed pyett in my brain flash registers as de stijl.

    It is no big deal. I’ll cope. An observation, I guess.

  133. Kit says:

    @HarvardLaw92:

    I’ll assume that you mean the ones concerning the subpoenas duces tecum

    Ahh… yeah! You’re a mind reader 🙂 Thanks for that. Much appreciated!

    Perhaps I missed it, but did you ever give your take on the Meuller Report?

  134. HarvardLaw92 says:

    @Kit:

    Perhaps I missed it, but did you ever give your take on the Meuller Report?

    In simple terms: “This guy is a crook, but my hands are tied here by policy.”

    It was a vividly worded invitation for Congress to impeach. Unfortunately, Congressional Dems badly dropped the ball in pursuing it. We simply got lucky that a whistleblower dropped indisputable manna from Heaven into their laps, and a feckless White House allowed proof of guilt to be released. Congressional Dems managed to build a case for impeachment almost despite themselves.

  135. de stijl says:

    Pelosi withheld referral to the Senate as a message and as a considered tactic.

    She is really good at this. Nancy Smash!

  136. mattbernius says:

    @HarvardLaw92:

    I’ve concluded that it only requires four votes, and the predictable four horsemen are enough to accomplish that, however ill advised it might have been.

    Its too bad that the court doesn’t make cert votes public. It would be interesting to see who voted in favor. I can see an argument that people who wouldn’t overturn Nixon felt that this needed to be heard out of respect for the Office of the Presidency.

  137. ed pyett says:

    @de stijl:

    1. lowercase nyms
    for a site littered with jackboot grammar Nazis , fake intellectuals , fake Harvard lawyers , fake English majors , purer than thou preachers , clairvoyants..like wow how have you survived?

    2. your brain is flashing
    i do not doubt you and you are on your own
    helpful hint…dont go to Bidens doctor

    3. would it help if i changed name to Buttagieg?

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  138. HarvardLaw92 says:

    @mattbernius:

    It’s possible, agreed, but in that regard simply refusing to consider the appeals accomplishes that mission, possibly more loudly. In essence “we have already spoken on this matter, in 1974, and our learned colleagues got it right already. Trump’s poorly reasoned arguments do not merit our valuable time. Nothing to see here – move along”

    They’d be more inclined to snub him than the four stooges, and at the end of the day they’re more concerned with process than appearances. Simpler terms: there is just no “there” there for them to consider. This is settled, crystal clear law already.

  139. DrDaveT says:

    @ed pyett:

    no law or Constitutional issue stated in Schiftless crayon written impeachment
    total gibberish fog

    So what do you think, folks? Performance art, or clinical impairment?

  140. de stijl says:

    @ed pyett:

    That was very rude.

    I was sharing an observation with you.

    Politeness is a social construct that helps us.

  141. HarvardLaw92 says:

    @DrDaveT:

    Garden variety troll

  142. mattbernius says:

    @HarvardLaw92:

    They’d be more inclined to snub him than the four stooges, and at the end of the day they’re more concerned with process than appearances.

    Perhaps, though I tend to wonder if Roberts would vote in favor for the purposes of keeping up appearances. I also would be interested in seeing where Gorsuch netted out.

  143. Michael Reynolds says:

    @DrDaveT:
    I think it’s the incoherent, spitting rage of a guy who knows he’s lost. He’ll transition eventually into a version of southern lost cause fools. I remember when I was young there’d be old farts still bitching about Roosevelt. (No, not Teddy, I’m not that old.) They’d bitch about socialism and ‘the coloreds.’ This dude will be sitting in his trailer stroking his guns and bitching about teh gays and also, of course, black people. Maybe, Jews, too once they work out a way to convince themselves it was all the fault of the Jews.

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  144. de stijl says:

    @ed pyett:

    I have a strong suspicion that you are a fake. A regular goofing on us. A construct.

    Tyrell has been quiet lately. Hmm. Suspicious.

    Late Elvis was hard to watch. The jumpsuits. I took the Graceland tour. It made me sad. The media room had green carpet on the walls. However, Young Elvis was awesome.

    Suspicious Minds, however, is a great, great song. However late in the catalog.

    I have a suspicious mind about you, friend.

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  145. Kit says:

    @DrDaveT:
    Early efforts of a troll AI? Promising but not quite there yet.

  146. ed pyett says:

    @de stijl:

    ?
    i am Franciscan Monk compared to the bigot poison posts here

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  147. ed pyett says:

    @de stijl:

    there is hope
    Hillary may run again
    our lives complete
    …and the Angels sang for we we will want for nothing

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  148. Michael Reynolds says:

    Ed Pyett on Medium:

    Dec 30, 2016 · 1 min read
    its all here…look , see if you dare
    100% Of US Warming Is Due To NOAA Data Tampering
    NASA Exposed in ‘Massive’ New Climate Data Fraud
    NOAA Fiddles With Climate Data To Erase The 15-Year Global Warming ‘Hiatus’

    He uses a racist avatar, the ‘I’ve got so much white guilt I’m basically black,’ a meme which, while racist, is also a non-sequitur. Hates Hillary. You know, garden variety cultie idiot.

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  149. de stijl says:

    @ed pyett:

    As of now, Buttigieg is my fall-back for the caucus.

    Why do you think that is mockable?

    He’s pretty solid on all the issues I care about, and is a wonk, or employs a super wonkish team to make him look that way.

    Arguably underprepared, I agree. Obama was also underprepared by credentialism qualifications, and he was the best President since Eisenhower hands down.

    If you are not fake, you are *petty*. What is your ludicrously fake last name again?

  150. ed pyett says:

    @Michael Reynolds:

    my Shakespearean repartee has rattled you
    facts you dont like
    typical Hillary troll

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  151. Daryl and his brother Darryl says:

    @Michael Reynolds:

    You know, garden variety cultie idiot.

    Climate Change denier…it doesn’t get any ridiculous, in my book…imagine what kind of fool thinks he is smarter than qualified climate scientists.

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  152. ed pyett says:

    @de stijl:

    not mocking …it is not a common name hence easy to remember

    the ice cream scooper from Honolulu was the worst
    climate change be damned
    Barry bought a $11 million dollar mansion in the whitest town on Earth inches above sea level
    see…there is hope for us all

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  153. Kit says:

    The trolling force is strong in this one. Only Kathy’s love songs can save him now.

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  154. de stijl says:

    @de stijl:

    My spellchecker wanted to make wonkish into pinkish, which is hilarious.

    Has anyone been to Graceland recently?

    I’m doubting my recollection. It may have been blue carpet on the walls. Anyway, it was a super tacky thing that a rich person in the seventies decided was cool.

    I’m not immune. I affixed diamond plate to my wall once as a design feature. Idiot. Had to take it down and repaint when selling, my Realtor was spot on for that input.

    I actually liked it, except for the weird echo effect.

    Graceland. The tour ended on Mom’s gravesite. A hysterical woman cried and took pictures simultaneously.

    I thought of that recently when I saw a young woman talking on her phone while bowling. She had zero shits where the ball ended up (gutter ball within 20 feet, btw.)

    She was just chatting with her friend. And poorly throwing a bowling ball vaguely towards the pins in her lane. 2019 in a nutshell.

  155. Michael Reynolds says:

    @de stijl:
    I was never into Elvis, but then my musical tastes are sadly limited. The Three R’s: Ramones, Rancid and Rolling Stones are sort of the core. I am musically ignorant and unsophisticated, I’m afraid.

  156. de stijl says:

    @ed pyett:

    I now totally want to know how and why the petty ice cream scooper person is the one you deem the worst.

    I am intrigued.

    This is like an episode of that yacht show on Bravo. Insanely petty bullshit amongst co-workers spun as a reality show.

    Usually street vendors in Hawai’i sell shaved ice with flavored juice toppings.

    That is a petty digression, though.

    Have I said petty often enough?

  157. de stijl says:

    @Michael Reynolds:

    Dude!

    Rancid is so awesome!

    Aren’t you a Clash guy, too?

    Ruby ruby ruby ruby soho

    Olympia, Washington

    Under A Blood Red Moon

    I so fucking love Rancid.

  158. Michael Reynolds says:

    @de stijl:
    Every now and then something new penetrates my indifference. Have you heard these guys?

  159. de stijl says:

    @Michael Reynolds:

    Give young Elvis a shot.

    I was a young punk back then who was supposed to hate him because of some undefined, mutually unknown reasons, but still. We hated him. He sucked.
    The epitome of corporatism in music something something.

    His take on Blue Moon. Brilliant.

    And Suspicious Minds.

    It’s so goofy, and so ridiculous, and so wonderful, and so insidious.

    Freaking love it. Saw an impersonator in Reno (or Laughlin, one of those two) and that was my call out suggestion when he asked the audience for input.

    Do not judge Elvis on old Elvis. Old Elvis was a massive tool.

    Young Elvis was cool as shit.

    Plus, he inspired Elvis Costello.

  160. de stijl says:

    @Michael Reynolds:

    I have a shirt faded as fuck from Rancid’s possibly maybe first visit to Minneapolis, first time I saw them anyway. So loud!

    I had such a great time!

    PS, buy merch from people you like. They need it, you want it.

  161. ed pyett says:

    @de stijl:

    a few off the top of my head

    you can keep your doctor
    Highest percentage of Americans on Food Stamps and Medicaid
    Record 92,898,000 Americans over 16 years not working
    Lowest Labor Force participation rate of 62.7%
    Denying the notion of American Exceptionalism
    Securing the Olympics for Chicago in 2016
    Naming numerous Communists/Socialists/Progressives to Czar Positions
    Mismanagement and cover up of Terrorist shootings in San Bernardino, California
    Mismanagement of Gulf Oil Spill
    Disastrous Vetting Process of “Immigrants” from Muslim Nations
    children in cages
    IRS abuses debacle…Lois Lerner pleaded 5th
    record FOIA refusals
    Benghazi
    Hillary pay for play
    $150 billion cash to Iran…illegal
    State Department email…unsecured servers
    Veterans Affairs. At least 40 U.S. veterans died waiting for appointments at a Phoenix VA facility,
    Spying on the AP
    The ATF “Fast and Furious” scheme
    Sebelius demands payment
    The Pigford Agriculture Department Scandal
    The General Services Administration Las Vegas Spending Spree.
    Solyndra
    New Black Panthers Voter Intimidation
    The hacking of Sharyl Attkisson’s computer
    Obama’s LIES about the Affordable Care Act
    “I’ll Pass My Own Laws”
    NSA Spying on American People
    Signing a Disastrous Nuclear Deal with the Mullahs of Ira
    Paid $5 Billion & Released 5 Taliban Prisoners For Deserter Bergdahl
    Waging war by attacking Libya without Congressional approval
    Allowed the building of Chinese bases in the South China Sea and off the coast of Somalia at the entrance to the gulf of Aden
    Fort Hood Shooting
    Colorado EPA Disaster

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  162. de stijl says:

    @Michael Reynolds:

    That was Mongolian throat singing + old school metal rock.

    Oh!

    Wow!

    I am de sijlgasming now.

    Thank you. So much!

  163. de stijl says:

    @Michael Reynolds:

    They are not just some white guys standing in front of the throat singers.

    Straight up Mongolia

    So fucking cool.

    That was so fucking awesome.

  164. wr says:

    @de stijl: “And Suspicious Minds.”

    Partial to the FYC cover, myself.

    Been listening almost non-stop to Brian Fallon’s solo stuff for the last couple days. Loved the Gaslight Anthem, never occurred to me to check and see that the brains and voice behind it were still recording…

  165. de stijl says:

    @ed pyett:

    Whatever.

    You’ve been dismissed already.

    Have a nice life, I really don’t care. Bother someone else.

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  166. wr says:

    @Michael Reynolds: “Have you heard these guys?”

    I believe I actually saw them at an outdoor music festival just outside of Beijing… If not them, another band that mixed Mongolian music with heavy metal. Awesome!

  167. Mikey says:

    @Michael Reynolds: @de stijl: The HU! I saw them in D. C. in September. They put on a great show, lots of energy and sounded really good. Much fun was had by all.

  168. de stijl says:

    I wandered. The HU have a video called Yuve Yuve Yu that is a shot for shot remake of a Creed video only filmed in Mongolia and there are no Christ t poses.

    Central asia, Eurasia, Anatolia, the Caucuses, Dalmatia, and more western bits, beware. Mongolia is on the march. Your lands will belong to the horde.

    That was the coolest thing I’ve seen in years.

  169. de stijl says:

    @wr:

    Why did Fine Young Cannibals just stop. I liked them.

    Also remember the dude from Simply Red. He was too good to fade into the ether. What happened to him?

  170. ed pyett says:

    @de stijl:

    ???
    you asked
    “I now totally want to know how and why the petty ice cream scooper person is the one you deem the worst”

    Trump 2020
    Don Jr. 2024

  171. de stijl says:

    I hate to tell you this, but no one likes you. You are boring.

    This feels like a line from Heathers or Mean Girls.

    I would be sorry if you / he / she wasn’t such as insistent unobservant tool.

    Petty, unfortunately, you are that girl that made out with a hot dog that one time.

    You will never make the “Fetch” list.

    Feel free to pitch in or whatev … ooh, shiny thing!

  172. de stijl says:

    @de stijl: @ed pyett:

    Ah! Finally got your ref.

    Obama is from Hawai’i. (Don’t you guys usually cite Kenya?)

    In your world he peddled sugar, fat, and cream to dupes eager to lap it up. Hence the the ice cream vendor.

    Is that a commonly used diss in right world? Seems quite obscure.

    You be you, I guess.

  173. wr says:

    @de stijl: “Why did Fine Young Cannibals just stop.”

    I’ve tried to find out and never been able to. It’s just a blank.

    As for Mick Hucknall,he owns a property development company and a vineyard in Italy and apparently money is no longer too tight to mention.

    Do you know the Hothouse Flowers? Wonderful Irish band dating back to the 80s and still around — I saw them two years ago at an outdoor show at a British manor house opening for the Waterboys and Van Morrison, and they stole the night.

  174. ed pyett says:

    @de stijl:

    he did scoop ice cream
    when not choomin….natch

  175. de stijl says:

    @wr:

    Dwight Yoakam has a version worth listening to.

    I like Bakersfield. It is a very bizarrely there place. That town knows who what where it is.

    Plus punkabilly / rockabilly girls with Betty Page bangs.

    I do like Bakersfield.

  176. de stijl says:

    @wr:

    You mentioned The Waterboys.

    Fisherman’s Blues.

    Arguably the best song ever.

    Hothouse Flowers. I think I know the name. Maybe. Sounds familiar, and a band I would be paying attention to. Will check it out.

    After listening to Fisherman’s Blues 17 times in a row.

  177. Michael Reynolds says:

    @de stijl: @wr: @Mikey:
    I believe @WR and @Mikey just one-upped us.

    Tim Armstrong (Rancid) is one of the most under-appreciated songwriters around. He and Billy Joe Armstrong (Green Day) formed ‘The Armstrongs’ just long enough to produce a single song together. Good song, but I was hoping for more. Both are very good lyricists.

  178. de stijl says:

    @de stijl:

    It makes very happy that that guy from Simply Red is just living in Italy growing some grapes and money is longer an issue for him.Good on him!

  179. de stijl says:

    I heard Fisherman’s Blues for the first time at Half Time Rec which is by far the best bar in all of St. Paul.

    It’s tucked away in an odd obscure corner, but check it out if you enjoy Celtic music.

    @Michael Reynolds:

    You talked about Austin and that changed your life.

    The Half Time Rec changed my life. Her name was Jenny.

  180. HarvardLaw92 says:

    @de stijl:

    It is cute how hard he tries though

  181. de stijl says:

    Rancid’s Olympia, WA is a great song. A song actually about NYC.

    Tim and the main person from The Distillers were a thing. Then not. Apparently it got quite ugly, but I liked The Distillers a lot.

    If you like Rancid, check The Distillers.

    Ps not enough recompense. Hard core Mongolian throat singing metal was stupid awesome. I am indebted. I will try to pay it off.

  182. de stijl says:

    @ed pyett:

    Be you, ed. Whatever.

    Be awesome to each other and I do not give a fuck.

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  183. Teve says:

    @Daryl and his brother Darryl: I’ve been following creationism for 20 years and moderating a biology discussion board for 15, and a long time ago I learned about Crank Magnetism. When somebody is a creationist, they’re not just a creationist, they also believe in climate denial, or bigfoot, pyramid power, chemtrails, etc.

    Crank Magnetism

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  184. ed pyett says:
  185. al Ameda says:

    @HarvardLaw92:

    Indeed. While I’ll stipulate that there is indeed a stand on principle here, Nancy is also a consummate politician. She’s Big Tommy D’Alesandro’s daughter – gamesmanship was something she learned in her cradle within the crucible of Baltimore politics.

    A few years ago, while working as a finance officer at a non-profit organization in San Francisco, I had the pleasure (as part of our entire staff) of meeting Speaker Pelosi a few times when she was doing one of her plannedc annual check-ins with some NPOs. I can tell you this, she’s intense and very focused. She was respectful and courteous to all, however because her staff had scheduled her to meet with various officials at various NPOs throughout the city, she was all business and very disciplined about time management.

    Trump is used to pushing people around, well Nancy is not the person you can do that to. Trump knows that now, he knows that she took his lunch money.

  186. al Ameda says:

    @de stijl:
    @Michael Reynolds:
    Music wise, one of my favorite memories was going to a Dead Kennedys concert at the armory (?) in Rodeo (I think some of the guys from Green Day are from there) and … they closed their set with a great version of ‘Viva Las Vegas’

  187. RDM says:

    exactly.
    Why do people always twist what is said to something perverted? What President Trump said was: ‘He might be looking up…’ He did NOT say anything about ‘hell.’ These people making judgmental comments have a perverted mind. No one knows for sure what happens when we die. We go to the grave and to say that ‘he might be looking up’ simply could be that one could still be in the grave, waiting a resurrection.

  188. RDM says:

    Why do people always twist what is said to something perverted? What President Trump said was: ‘He might be looking up…’ He did NOT say anything about ‘hell.’ You all have a perverted mind. No one know for sure what happens when we die. We go to the grave and to say that ‘he might be looking up’ simply could be that one could still be in the grave, waiting a resurrection.

    The bible says an evil-hearted person believes and evil report without getting the facts. That’s exactly what you and others have done.

  189. RDM says:

    Why do people always twist what is said to something perverted? What President Trump said was: ‘He might be looking up…’ He did NOT say anything about ‘hell.’ You all have a perverted mind. No one knows for sure what happens when we die. We go to the grave and to say that ‘he might be looking up’ simply could be that one could still be in the grave, waiting a resurrection.

    The bible says that an evil-hearted person believes and evil report before getting the facts.

    Stick to the facts.

  190. Michael Reynolds says:

    @RDM:
    Trump culties aren’t allowed to talk about facts. You’re liars who worship a liar.

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  191. Pylon says:

    @RDM: When you have to stretch that far to make something Trump said remotely palatable, you should rethink it. Besides, you are ignoring the fact that he was contrasting looking up with “looking down” from heaven, which he quoted Mrs. Dingell as saying.

    Plus there’s the fact the whole premise is stupid – that a state funeral which would have happened under any president and which he had almost nothing to do with meant she was somehow beholden to him and shouldn’t vote to impeach.

  192. Kit says:

    @RDM:

    Why do people always twist what is said to something perverted?

    I was about to write something else but then thought a bit more about what you said. On second thought, it looks like you might have just wandered into this blog by mistake. I do thank you for the laugh, however.

  193. @RDM:

    Why do people always twist what is said to something perverted? What President Trump said was: ‘He might be looking up…’ He did NOT say anything about ‘hell.’

    The contextual contrast was obvious. He contrasted “looking down” (i.e., in Heaven) with “looking up” (i.e., in Hell). One watching the video can clearly see the crowd reaction. They got it.

    If you are going to defend him, defend what he did, don’t make excuses.

  194. mattbernius says:

    @Pylon:

    that a state funeral which would have happened under any president

    Again, Dingle did not get a *state funeral* as historically defined – https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/State_funerals_in_the_United_States#Major_components

    There was a ceremony in DC followed by a burial in Arlington (which was due to his Military service). He didn’t lie in state and there was no formal procession that I’m aware of (please correct if I’m wrong).

    See this contemporaneous report of his Funeral Ceremonies:
    https://www.freep.com/story/news/local/michigan/2019/02/08/funeral-john-dingell-dearborn-arlington/2810527002/

  195. Mister Bluster says:

    @RDM:..Why do people always twist what is said to something perverted?

    Why do Trump supporters overlook his perversions “grab them by the pussy” and twist them into lame excuses “locker room talk”?

  196. An Interested Party says:

    What President Trump said was: ‘He might be looking up…’ He did NOT say anything about ‘hell.’

    Where was he looking up from? A condo in Florida? Trump apologists make the most ridiculous asinine arguments to defend him…

  197. Jax says:

    It’s been interesting how they’re dead set on telling us he’s not impeached. We are closing in on them telling us it never happened, even if he’s removed.

  198. Pylon says:

    @mattbernius: thanks. I think I knew that but just conflated it.