NFL Punishing Victim in Ray Rice Case
The firing actually hurts Janay Rice much more than it does Ray.
After NFL commissioner Roger Gooddell was so roundly excoriated for giving him a measly two-game suspension over the summer, it came as little surprise when the Baltimore Ravens cut Ray Rice and the league suspended him indefinitely yesterday when an even more stomach-turning video went public.
While I fully understand why the NFL and the Ravens are taking this draconian step, cutting a star player and absorbing a substantial salary cap hit for their troubles, I’m nonetheless slightly concerned about two aspects.
First, this amounts to double jeopardy. To be sure, the NFL and the Ravens are private entities and not bound by the Constitution’s ban on that practice. Still, it’s a fundamental element of fairness in the American culture that people aren’t punished twice for the same crime. It’s not clear that we know more after seeing the new video than we did the old one. We still don’t know what happened before Rice punched the then-Janay Paymer in the face. It probably doesn’t really matter given the viciousness of the hit and the enormous disparity in physical stature. Regardless, yesterday’s move seems more like a public relations do-over than a response to new information.
Second, and more notably, Janay Paymer is now Janay Rice. I know next to nothing about their relationship and sincerely hope the night in question was, as both claim, the lone incident of violence. Regardless, she was clearly the victim that night. Now, she’s paying the price for his transgressions. Rice’s salary for this year was $3.529 million. He was scheduled to earn base salaries of $3 million in 2015 and 2016. Granting that NFL contracts are not guaranteed, the Rice family is substantially poorer than they were this time yesterday. That impacts Janay just as much as Ray. It’s not like Ray Rice is going to be able to get a job making anywhere near that kind of money. The normal post-football route of capitalizing on his fame is almost certainly unavailable to him given his newfound infamy.
Indeed, the firing actually hurts Janay more than it does Ray. Rice had already received a $15 million signing bonus and a $7 million option bonus; I haven’t the foggiest idea whether the terms of his contract will allow the Ravens to claw back a prorated portion of that. But Maryland is an Equity Property, not a Community Property, state. Should the two divorce, Janay wouldn’t be entitled to Ray’s previous earnings, only those he brought in after the marriage. And that amount just went from a princely sum to bupkis.
This isn’t a unique outcome, of course. Punishing those who commit crimes often has devastating financial impact on their families. In domestic violence cases, that perversely includes the victim of the crime in question. Still, it’s worth noting that the Ravens’ PR move signaling their sudden interest in employing only non-criminals is hurting the victim in this instance.
UPDATE: It should be clear from my references to Ray Rice’s criminality and the “viciousness” of the hit and to my continued references to Janay Rice as a “victim” that I’m not siding with him here, much less condoning his actions. My point is twofold. First, the NFL and the Ravens are taking a second bite at the apple in the wake of a public relations nightmare. Second, that this punishment harms the innocent victim of his crime substantially. (And that’s to say nothing of their child.)
None of that means that the Ravens and NFL shouldn’t have terminated Rice. At the end of the day, as in the Donald Sterling situation in the NBA, keeping him around is bad for the brand. And, as noted in the final paragraph of the original post, the perpetrator’s family usually suffers from their punishment. Nonetheless, it struck me as interesting that none of the commentary I’ve seen on the case has even mentioned that Janay is getting victimized again.
And if he didn’t really love her, she couldn’t really make him mad (to paraphrase Carol King).
This is a terrible take on this situation. Will she suffer financially due to his actions? Yes, but to otherwise leave him unpunished is irresponsible and would only encourage this behavior. She may not be a millionaire after this concludes, but her husband may come to realize that punching his wife has real world consequences. Other players will learn there are consequences. This is not the first instance of domestic violence in the NFL and will most certainly be the last.
I don’t even follow sports and am appalled at how terribly this has been handled from start to finish. He needs to go, and maybe she won’t have a Bentley. I assume she can live with that.
This is ridiculous, even Ray Rice’s lawyer wouldn’t stoop this low.
This defense applies for any man who beats his wife/child/dog. At least the wife can get out.
I understand what you’re trying to do here with this post but boy do I think you’re going to regret writing this. You have daughters, don’t you? Try imagining one of them on that elevator and see if you’re at all worried about her financial health.
Wow, I have to agree with Beth on this one. Both of your arguments are incredibly weak. People get fired these days for social media posts and all kinds of “unfair” reasons that amount to bringing ill repute onto your employer…. which is, at a minimum, exactly what Rice did. And bringing up double-jeopardy only weakens the argument further because double-jeopardy has nothing to do with this.
Secondly, it’s also pretty presumptuous of you to assume what is best for Rice’s wife and fail to consider the longer-term impact of this decision – it sends a message to other players that domestic violence won’t be tolerated and that will help keep future spouses from being victims of violence as well as “victims” from the loss of rights spousal income.
So let me get this straight, is Dr. Joyner suggesting that employers have some kind of moral responsibility to the family of an employee in making decisions regarding whether or not to fire someone? Wow, that’s mighty progressive of you, should they also pay men with family’s more?
As for double jeopardy, all pro athletes have contractual language that covers controversial personal issues, typically called “morals clauses” that cover a whole host of sins that most of us don’t have. If the Ravens feel that Rice’s place on the team is effecting the bottom line (or simply damaging their brand) they can pretty much do whatever they please as Rice agreed to it by signing the deal.
Finally, I will third what has already been said regarding the notion that anytime anyone get’s fired it punishes the families of those fired. I’m pretty sure that Dr. Joyner would not be supporting the notion that all employers should take family impact into their employment decisions or no one would ever have their job off-shored ever again. But hey if he is willing to go there I’m with him.
@Andy:
There is an argument (made by many people who are called progressives) that the threat of being permanently terminated from the NFL will discourage women reporting violence. If one faces the prospect of going from a life of affluence to bankruptcy and divorce, then why report the violence in the first place.
This is just a good example of the weekly two minute hate that America seems to like to enjoy. People get to be status seeking on this issue and taking a 100% politically correct view instead of thanking about the long term. I doubt if divorce and bankruptcy will do much for the health and well being of Janay Rice.
Why are you singling out just DV? Anyone who’s been fired or jailed for being a reprehensible human being has brought a negative financial impact on their families; that’s one of the thing’s that makes them reprehensible – their selfish actions continue to hurt their loved ones as collateral damage and yet they acted anyways. An alcoholic that gets fired can’t feed his kids anymore then then a fired DV abuser can. The act of firing does not take place in a vacuum. Your logic means that only single people with absolutely no dependents or any other living thing that could be adversely affected can be morally fired… and that’s what, maybe 100 people in the country, tops?
She’s a young woman with her life ahead of her. Doesn’t have to be a wealthy one. Doesn’t have to be with him. She is perfectly capable of standing on her own two feet and making a life for herself (alone or together with Rice). Staying with an abuser for financial reasons is a terrible suggestion – denying her agency as a capable adult by suggesting filthy lucre is worth her safety or her life.
Let him get a McJob, if he can. Let him earn whatever he can persuade a company to pay him. Man’s not entitled to ^#&$*$@ just because he can toss a ball around. Go forth and get a job, young man!!
If you had to consider the financial impacts on the family of a transgressor, you’d never be able to punish anyone.
The travesty here is that Ray Rice isn’t in jail. How the prosecutor didn’t see fit to press harder on this is really hard for me to figure.
@JoshB @Andy: : She married him AFTER the incident. Clearly, SHE sees being married to Ray Rice as in her best interests.
@beth: Nothing here constitutes a defense of Ray Rice. It just notes that Janay Rice will be punished as well.
@Keith: Presumably, the continued pleading of the victim for leniency factored in.
@KM: Again, she married him AFTER the abuse.
@James Joyner: She chose to marry him after the elevator incident. “For better or for worse.”
The only time anyone has any power/responsibility to protect others from the consequences of their bad choices is when you are asserting a guardian role over them.
She chose to marry him after the incident(s), but presumably at least one factor was the incredible money that she’d get. Future victims of NFL players now know that is in jeopardy if they pursue the same route.
My argument, like James’, is not that the NFL cut Rice, but rather that they did so only when the video raised public awareness of their crappy initial handling of the case.
Gonna agree with James here. The false dichotomy is between no punishment and ending Rice’s career. I agree that a two games suspension was too light; but I think the pendulum has swung too far the other way.
I’m hoping that wiser heads will prevail and that the league will settle on a punishment of a year’s suspension which is a major hit on Rice’s earnings, along with community service at House Of Ruth.
Apparently Janay Rice is resenting the “help” of those who want to destroy her main source of income for her own good.
I agree with the double jeopardy angle. We knew what happened long before this, and the video…while clearly disgusting…doesn’t really change that. The only thing it changed was the optics…video/film can be immensely powerful.
For whatever reason Rice was let off easy by the Atlantic City authorities, and by the NFL/Ravens. I don’t agree with that in either case…but that should have been it.
As far as hurting Mrs. Rice…while it’s certainly true that the failures of the Ravens and the NFL have hurt Mrs. Rice…on several levels…I don’t think that argument holds water. If that concept drove policy you would potentially keep serial wife beaters employed…reward them for there abuse.
The best Mrs. Rice can do is to sue both the Ravens and the NFL for corporate malfeasance. This incident happened in a casino…notorious for having cameras everywhere. Seriously…TMZ can get the video…but the NFL and the Ravens couldn’t? Does anyone really believe that? The NFL and the Ravens either did an massively incompetent job of investigating…or they are lying to cover-up something…you know…like letting Rice off easy. Mrs. Rice will forever be branded by this event…due to the way the institutions have totally bollixed it up.
In any case…heads should roll in the Ravens front office, as should Mr. Goodell’s.
@KM:
While I understand the sentiment,shouldn’t this be HER decision, not those of scolds on the Internet?
Rice will be back. If dogfighting can’t get you a permanent exemption, this won’t either.
Color me not that sympathetic to this argument.
Husbands and fathers who work regular jobs get sent to prison all the time for assault that leaves people unconcious but nobody is saying they shouldn’t be imprisoned for their crimes. The wives and children are left in far worse financial straits than Rice’s wife.
This story shows just how much wealth and game keep a person out of prison. If Rice worked in a warehouse or factory he likely would be in prison given the viciousness of the incident.
@James Joyner:
She did. That was her choice, for better or for worse. Maybe she really loves him, maybe she saw no other way, maybe she really wanted to be married, maybe this is the only type of love she knows, maybe she wanted the money/fame, maybe maybe maybe. Her choice, her consequences…. including any financial issues (“for richer or for poorer”). She’s allowed to do stupid things, too. Doesn’t mean the punch hurt any less or that she deserved it.
No matter what lies the songs tell you, love is not enough. “Love” will not stop a punch, not matter what wishful thinking goes on. She chose; by all appearances, she chose poorly.
I understand and appreciate your intent, James. It’s just rather unfortunately framed. Ray Rice shouldn’t get away with anything less then he deserves because he can point fingers and say “it hurts her too!”. She should not have to have any more indignities foisted on her due to his actions, true. However, the world is not fair and she made a choice of her own free will that placed her in the fan’s path. Her life is not ruined, her bank account is. Not the end of the world but maybe a chance to start again.
Joyner just used Eric Holder’s faux rationale for not prosecuting the bankers who broke numerous laws when they caused the Great Recession. Punishing the bad guys would hurt too many others. This is despicable on every front, legally, morally and ethically.
@Keith:
What part of uncooperative witness is so hard to understand?
@stonetools :
True, she can chose to stay if she wants. She’s free to fly, but be mindful that flying depends on the whims of the currents. You may not end up where you thought you would. If she doesn’t want to make her own fortune, she chooses to be dependent on his (a pretty poor prospect at this point). But hey, it’s her life – I’m just the nosy bystander.
@James Joyner: But we have no way of knowing – on either side – what kind of pressure she was under, from him and the NFL, to marry him to rehabilitate his image, as some Baltimore papers suggested AT THE TIME. Given that he is an abuser – that this is a lone incident is clearly a lie based on his reaction to her unconsciousness – it’s incredibly presumptuous of anyone and everyone to second guess what decisions she made at the time or what state of mind she was in following the abuse.
I’m truly happy for those who have never lived in or been in an abusive relationship. However, that means that all you can mouth are platitudes and judgments.You have NO IDEA what she has been through and, probably, what she’s currently going through. She may well have feared death. Money may have been the furthest thing from her mind – living might have been her end result. The system failed her then and is failing her now. He should have been sent to jail with no parole for 20 years, PERIOD, and not released on bail, either. That would have been the only way she would have felt safe, and she might then have been able to make reasoned decisions instead of survival decisions.
@stonetools:
I’m honestly curious – why do you think he’s entitled to a second chance? Most workers would be out on their ass if something like this was brought to their boss’s attention (with video to boot!) with absolutely no option to negotiate for anything other then the amount of time they have to grab their crap before the door hits them. What “wiser heads” are there that make a distinction between Joe Blow that smacks his wife and a football star? What makes what Rice did worth the option of a suspension other then the paycheck for all involved? Do you advocate the same for a Wendy’s worker – a year off since it will really hurt his salary and thus teach him a lesson?
@James Joyner: By your logic Rice should get a bonus for slugging his girlfriend. Presumably she’d share in the largesse, and that would compensate her for her injury and her public humiliation. He could get an extra million a year for a quick punch to the jaw and 10 million extra for prolonged torture. It’s an interesting insight. I always learn something when I read OTB.
@KM:
Because I think most people should be entitled to a second chance? Because his wife , who married him after the abuse and who sleeps beside him every night, thinks he desrves a second chance.? Let me turn it around. Who the hell are YOU to think he doesn’t deserve a second chance? Who made you the universal judge of second chances? See, two can play that.
From Mrs. Rice, this am:
@Blue Galangal:
Note that as of today, she fiercely opposes your view of what the appropriate punishment is, freely, and independently, with apparently full agency.Does that change your view? (Don’t expect it to.)
@James Joyner:
Ok, but that doesn’t address the criticisms made against your arguments.
@C. Clavin:
@stonetools: I’m curious if you think this is a crime that should only be punished if the victim agrees to it. Should people be allowed to abuse and beat others as long as the others don’t object?
Step 1: Marry a rich, famous celebrity despite the fact that you already know he does things that bring widespread negative press attention
Step 2: Piss and moan when you are subject to widespread negative attention
I won’t presume to know what happened or what should happen in her relationship with her abuser with respect to the abuse she has suffered, but I will say this: If you don’t like the press attention you are getting from being married to a famous, rich, violent woman beater, maybe you shouldn’t be married to a violent, rich, famous woman beater
I personally don’t find the victim’s position sympathetic in terms of any implications that follow from her marrying the thug. She decided to marry a woman-beater, she’ll be lucky to escape with her life and her sanity.
@beth:
Under the encouragement of VAWA, many jurisdictions have a “no drop” policies on abuse allegations.
James, I understand the point you’re making, but I have to disagree on both counts. Regarding double jeopardy: if I find out that my employee took a nap on the job, I might punish him. If I found out later that he lied to me and spent all day sleeping, I’d fire him. That’s the NFL’s position: that they didn’t realize how bad it was. I find that allegation ridiculous: the NFL is not some nickel-and-dime operation. They likely knew how bad it was and only suspended him now because of the bad optics. But they are fundamentally in the entertainment business. Yesterday, people might have cheered Ray Rice. Today, no one will. The problem is not that the suspended him indefinitely now. The problem is that they *didn’t* suspend him indefinitely a long time ago.
For the second point, I think that’s overthinking it. Marrying any sports star is a risky proposition. They can get injured. They can lose effectiveness. They can be discovered to have beaten the holy hell out of you in an elevator. I think losing some money is the least of this woman’s worries right now. We punish men who are abusive. We don’t leaven it with “but wait, now he can’t provide for her!” concerns.
Roger Goodell screwed Rice by giving him only a two game suspension. Now the Ravens and Goodell have to make up for being lenient by going over the top and cutting him completely. If he had received a one year suspension from the start then we would’t be having this conversation.
@Hal_10000:
You have to be tremendously naive to believe that.
@stonetools:
I keep coming back to that as well. She seemed to believe he deserved a second chance (ie she married him after the fact); presumably she understands the situation better than anyone else.
The loss of income argument I find unconvincing; as people have pointed out, everyone earning an income who has a spouse is hurting their spouse when they lose their job. But the deserves a second chance element is pretty much settled in my mind by his fiancee’s decision to marry him.
The NFL made their decision based on PR. They’ve a right to do so (its their league), but I wouldn’t ascribe any morals to their decision.
@C. Clavin:
That’s their story and they’re sticking to it! The video gave them the opening they needed to backtrack and serve up Ray Rice and his wife to the internet/media wolves.
@beth:
Note the word bolded there. The issue is not whether he should be punished: the issue is appropriate punishment. Should his career be ended on the basis of one incident? I would say no.
Should he have to take a major hit in earnings, then resume his career after an interval? I think that’s more appropriate(as, apparently, does his wife-you know, the actual injured party?)
I also think it’s mighty condescending for folks on the Internet to say, “We know what’s good for you! Wait tables for a living if you have to, just because we want to end your husband’s career for one incident that you’ve forgiven him for!”
To me, that takes some brass, but oher people don’t see it that way, I guess.
@C. Clavin:
Yep. That’s why I said it was ridiculous. I’ve heard some rumors that TMZ has information that the NFL knew about this video long ago.
Just to clarify one of my points: “Yesterday, people might have cheered Ray Rice. Today, no one will.” I wanted to make clear that I don’t think people *should* have cheered for him. I just think they would have. This is the same town that cheered Ray Lewis. This is the same sport that cheered Michael Vick. Ravens fans have been making excuses for this ever since the first video emerged. This second video, however, ended that.
I am convinced that Rice will reappear in the league in a year or two. And we’ll read all these stories about how he’s a changed man and has learned his lesson. Such is the cycle in the NFL.
@stonetools: I actually agree with most of what you’ve said. I’ve felt from the beginning that he should have been suspended, without pay, for the duration of his legal punishment (which I believe was one year of some kind of treatment program). I do think his legal punishment was light, though. I think he’ll probably be back in football next season. I also think his wife is nuts but she’s an adult who has access to the means to leave him if she so desires. Many women don’t and that’s why they sometimes don’t press charges.
As far as folks on the internet, I’m seeing the same people who were posting videos of “the knockout game” and insisting those doing it should be jailed or worse are now defending Rice.
@Hal_10000:
The career life of running backs is too short for Ray Rice to make a come back in a couple of years. The NFL is helping Janay Paymer by putting her on the path to bankruptcy, divorce, and having a deadbeat dad as the father of her child. I guess status seeking by some is more important the quality of life of those involved.
@superdestroyer:
Only a complete racist would consider a person who has made millions of dollars a deadbeat dad…because he is black.
@Hal_10000:
My bad…missed that.
@stonetools: I can see why she is pissed, the NFL, media and the public don’t really “care” about her. The public and the media are ranting and getting on their moral high horse because it makes them “feel” better about themselves. The NFL is reacting now because of bad PR.
@superdestroyer:
I don’t think so. Ricky Williams was out of the league for two years for marijuana use and came back. Rice *may* not come back because he may already be winding down. He’s 27, near the point where feature backs start to decline and his performance has declined every year (precipitously last year). But let’s not be naive. some team is going to give him a chance. And if he has a few good games, he’ll get millions. Michael Vick tortured dogs to death and came back to a $50 million payday.
@C. Clavin:
How soon do you think it will take for Ray Rice to be bankrupt. He has no income but has a long list of financial commitments that he now cannot fund. Almost 80% of NFL players will eventually declare bankruptcy. The probablity is even higher that Ray Rice will go bankrupt. How do you think he is going to pay for his daughter’s private schools and college tuition with no future income? Somehow I doubt that Janay Rice’s degree in mass communications from Towson University will lead to a high paying career that will keep her in the lifestyle to which she has become accustomed.
I fail how to understand how bankruptcy, divorce, and fighting over support payments is going to be good for Ms. Rice’s health or well-being but it seems that is what the masses want for her.
I have little doubt that Janay knew what she was signing up for long before she married him and before she got on that elevator. There is no way he snapped one time and went Mike Tyson on her – once and only once – and acted just oh so casual afterwards. Janay, I suspect, realizes that she is getting the good with the bad – the good is a ton of money and fame and the bad, is a left hook when Ray has a rough day or its cloudy or his tooth hurts or…
Run Janay, run.
@ James Joyner
And that’s her choice to make. She married him for better of for worse. Well, welcome to worse. Rice has already made far, far more money than the average joe will see in a lifetime. He has an education from an excellent school. Are we really supposed to feel sorry for either of them?
This whole thing is a load of horse cr*p. I don’t disagree with the Raven’s decision to let Rice go and I don’t disagree with Goodall’s decision to suspend him indefinitely.
What I do disagree with is the timing. Getting rid of him should have happened when it was first discovered that he had punched out his then fiancee. It’s not like nobody saw the tape showing him dragging her unconscious body out of the elevator.
The only thing that changed is we now get to see the actual punch. Does that make a difference in the scheme of things? No, no it doesn’t. What we knew before is what we know now – Ray Rice punched a woman in the face and knocked her out.
This is nothing but a PR move on the part of the NFL and the Ravens. I would have taken it seriously and been impressed if they had taken these actions from the start. Now it’s nothing but expediency.
@ superdestroyer
1. When did they announce they are getting a divorce?
2. What evidence do you have that Rice is in financial duress?
@anjin-san:
It is just a matter of time cite
where it states:
With no NFL contract and no prospects for a job in the future, it is only a matter of time before Ray Rice is divorced and bankrupt. But it is all in the interest of Janay Rice to be broke, divorced,a single mothers, and without any job skills.
Is Mr. Joyner now just trolling his own blog?
@george:
The fact that a victim of domestic violence believes that her abuser “deserves a second chance” in no way obligates me to agree.
I for one, am really troubled by the consequence-free world it seems like the wealthy and powerful increasingly inhabit.
@superdestroyer:
It worked for Sarah Palin. Oh wait…she’s white. Never mind.
it struck me as interesting that none of the commentary I’ve seen on the case has even mentioned that Janay is getting victimized again.
How many stupid things get said on the internet because people are trying to demonstrate how much smarter and more insightful they are than everybody else?
Mike
@ superdestroyer
Well of course this is inevitable. How could a black woman possibly become a success on her own merits? Marriage to an abusive pro athlete is clearly the only shot this woman has in life. Next stop food stamps – like all the other sisters, right?
You know, two of the most successful people I know, and I know a lot of them, are black women I grew up with. I suspect their accomplishments exceed yours by a very, very wide margin. You really need to get out more.
It has been reported that Rice will still get $25 million.
“The best predictor of future behavior is past behavior”
Where’s Al?
@anjin-san:
Because they are black women and Super-Dooper is an oppressed white male. Duh.
@superdestroyer: I fail how to understand how bankruptcy, divorce, and fighting over support payments is going to be good for Ms. Rice’s health
I agree, which makes the fact of his illegal, abusive behavior that much sadder, because his actions now stand the possibility of re-victimizing her in exactly those ways. If only he had considered that before beating her. Or before marrying her.
Or were you trying to imply that the punishment is unjust because it would hurt her as well? Because that’s just dumb.
Ah, there it is. The not so subtle sexism and racism combined with just a dash of anti-teacher elitism I was expecting. Thanks for not letting us down
I am rather troubled by the idea that domestic violence where a woman was hit and lost conciousness is somehow less than an assault between two people not in a relationship.
Assault is assault and I don’t really care if his employer decided to cut him loose because he committed a crime. That she is the victim of the assault and now may be hurt by loss of income doesn’t mean his crime is somehow less criminal.
As a woman I personally don’t understand why you marry a man who hit you (or stay married to one) but the fact that she married him doesn’t make his assault less of an assault.
@beth: In James’ defense here. I believe James will teach his daughters many ways to avoid this type of situation. That is what fathers do for their daughters. And they teach their sons that you never strike a woman. Both individuals here showed very poor judgement and displayed behaviors that only heightened the situation. Bringing James parenting skills and abilities as a father into play plus mentioning his daughters is poor form. James is making a monetary case for an abused woman which I believe is important. We support lazy people that sit around all day and abuse a welfare system yet an abused spouse is trapped financially due to lack of assistance. That is James point. And I’m sure James will take good care of his daughters regardless of whatever position they may be in.
@Tyrell:
The Ravens do not owe Ray Rice anymore money. the $22 million has already been paid and a good portion of it has already probably been spent.
http://www.baltimoresun.com/sports/ravens/ravens-insider/bal-financial-ramifications-of-ravens-terminating-ray-rices-contract-20140908,0,2715305.story
@Ken: There is no sexism or racism involved. No matter the gender, ethnicity, or race, a mass communications degree from Towson State is not going to help someone find a job that will keep someone in the same lifestyle that one gets from a $22 million dollar signing bonus.
@C. Clavin:
I doubt if Sarah Palin had a $22 million dollar lifestyle even after being serving as governor of Alaska or Vice-Presidential nominee. Somehow I doubt if anyone is going to give Janay Rice a talk show, help her run for public office, or a job in a Wall Street Hedge Fund. Her standard of living was much higher being married to a professional athlete but now she is just married no another unemployed man with no useful job skills.
“Two years after retirement 78% of NFL players are bankrupt”. Something is wrong. These players are either getting bad advice, making poor investments, or have bad agents. The players’ association needs to get involved and try to help these players not make bad decisions with their money.
I would like to see a study that compares arrest numbers in all of the pro sports: from bowling to car racing. This might could show some patterns. It could also be studied by psychologists and maybe some recommendations could be made. I wonder if one sport shows much higher numbers. If so, why?
Maybe. Looks like TU* parchment did not hurt these folks.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Towson_University_people
*Towson State became Towson University in 1997 per their website.
@ superdestroyer
You seem to be pretty caught up in the whole “22 million” thing. Why not find some nice celebrity site to troll? You could hang out there and educate them about the coming one party state.
@ ernieyeball
I know I am shocked that super thinks two college educated black people are destined for welfare and probably a crack pipe if Rice looses his football income for good.
@anjin-san: Sucks when someone you don’t like has a point, and is right, doesn’t it?
If you weren’t basing your points on ideology and personal prejudices, you’d admit that SD has a point: there is NOTHING in Ray Rice’s background that gives the slightest indication that he will handle the sudden termination of his career in any kind of successful fashion, and considerable indicators that he will fail very hard and very quickly. His college degree is in “Mass Communications,” which is not noted as a high-income field except for a very few, and he’s done nothing since he got his degree to develop his skills and knowledge.
Plus, one element that helps in such a field is personal charisma and likeability; his conduct has essentially made him toxic to the public.
On the other hand, I figured Michael Vick was permanently toxic, and he came back. It’s entirely possible that this isn’t a permanent stigma, but the latest 15-minute hate that will pass.
But SD is far righter than you want to admit, annie. But since you don’t like him, you instinctively have to oppose what he says — even when it makes you look as stupid as… well, wr and cliffy.
@ Jenos
So what you are trying to tell us is you still have nothing to say? That’s as predictable as the sunrise.
Don’t loose any sleep about Ray Rice dude, he can buy you and super out of pocket change.
The NFL got it wrong from the beginning but they should have stuck with their original decision. There was no new evidence by the new video and they should have been 100% horrified by the initial video. To double down is poor leadership. Also, months after the fact, how helpful is it to these people to have this then the internet/cable news craze of the week with dozens of talking heads spouting opinions and million of people commenting on the situation? It certainly isn’t helpful to them or their families.
Everyone wants to lump unique newsworthy situations into their own prejudicial categories, “serial batterer”, “deluded, battered wife”, etc.. Not much different than other situations where people are quick to trot out “young thug”, “trouble maker”, etc with little or no evidence to the facts. For all we know this women could have been attacking RR without him retaliating on multiple previous occasions…till THAT night. Sounds far-fetched but I’ve seen several situations like this. Not saying that applies to this case but I think its wise to not go beyond the fact that Ray Rice should have exercised better restraint over his impulses that night. All these other narratives are just conjecture.
Everyone wants to lump unique newsworthy situations into their own prejudicial categories, “serial batterer”, “deluded, battered wife”, etc.. Not much different than other situations where people are quick to trot out “young thug”, “trouble maker”, etc with little or no evidence to the facts.
Yup, it is funny how everyone on the internet is now some sort of psychologist and know that Janay Rice is going through battered wife syndrome.
@anjin-san: So what you are trying to tell us is you still have nothing to say? That’s as predictable as the sunrise.
Actually, I recall you’re the one who takes pride in not actually saying things. Aren’t you the proud gun owner and skilled shooter who speaks contemptuously of others who might exercise their 2nd Amendment rights?
Don’t loose any sleep about Ray Rice dude, he can buy you and super out of pocket change.
Yes, he can. Today. But not for much longer, I think, for the very reasons I spelled out above. You know, the comment that you described as “nothing to say.” Which means, in your version of English… well, whatever you want it to say, with little to no resemblance to reality.
@Jenos Idanian #13:
Of course there is nothing in his background that that gives the slightest indication that he will NOT handle the sudden termination of his career in any kind of successful fashion…except that he is black.
He’s already done more with his life than you have, bub.
You and SD…where’s Florack for the bigot trifecta?
@C. Clavin:
And before anyone claims I’m defending Rice…I view bigots and wife beaters with the same contempt. But a wife beater that has accomplished something trumps a troll that hasn’t anyday.
@superdestroyer:
You know for someone so obsessed with entitlements, why are you defending the entitlement mentality here? Neither Ray Rice nor Janay Rice are entitled to the baller income/lifestyle. You f*** up, you lose it. Guess what just happened.
The logical conclusion of this article and others like it is that the financial loss is worse than the physical. Well too damn bad. Rich people shouldn’t be allowed to assault their spouses and children for fear of losing the money. No one should be above the law, including rich people. People stopped being chattel centuries ago.
@C. Clavin: Oh, Cliffy. If it wasn’t for the race card, you’d have to find something else to show how stupid you are.
Professional athletes, especially of more recent vintage, tend to be really, really bad at managing money. And Mr. Rice has already shown a tendency towards bad decisions. I’m playing the odds.
But back to your pathetic attempt to play the race card… are you arguing that black domestic abusers should be held to a lower standard than white domestic abusers? I wouldn’t be surprised if you were…
@Anonne:
So you argument is that since Janay was beaten she should also have to end up divorced, bankrupt, and fighting over child support with an unemployed and uemployable ex-husband because people want to be self-righteous about domestic abuse. People want to say that the care about Janay because she was beaten but then cheer the concept that she is headed to a much tougher life becasue Ray Rice is not economically toxic. I just do not understand the logic in that. Quality of life should always be considerd that people are not doing anything to improve the quality of life of Janay Rice.
@superdestroyer:
No. Those other items are under her control. But they are not entitled to live high on the hog when they screw up. He is not entitled to skip off for beating a woman, regardless of the fact that she is now his wife. It’s not being “self righteous” about domestic abuse. If she wants to be stupid and stay with a man that cold cocked her, that is her business. But she is not entitled to have that income, and neither is he. Just because he’s rich doesn’t put him above the law, or above punishment from his employer.
I think the media and most of you should listen to Janay Rice. The media and now the NFL is ruining this young man’s career. Ray Rice committed a horrible act, but has been forgiven by his wife. They have been trying to put this incident behind them and deal with it privately, but the media and most of the Internet wants to prolong their pain.
I think this is actually degrading to Janay. It makes it seem like she’s either stupid or scared for staying with Ray. There have been much worse incidents in the NFL and college that have been made public and have also been covered up. Suspend this guy for a year, but don’t kill his career.
@Lyle :
He killed his career. He did it, no one else. His fist, his consequences. He’s man enough to hit somebody? He’s man enough for the fallout of that hit.
Stop pointing fingers at the media and saying “Oh dammit, if only they hadn’t made a big deal out of this guy committing a crime and knocking someone unconscious, they could just move on and make that paper!” Stop making it sound like things are just hunky-dory until the evil evil media dare to catch their ooopies on tape then show the world.
He. Knocked. Her. Unconscious. And people’s concern is his poor career and bank account. Stop and think about what that says about you as a human being that money ranks over physical violence.
Someone else’s sins do not excuse yours. That the NFL is crap at punishment is blatantly obvious. Somebody needs to go clean house over there pronto. Still, you do not get a pass because they failed to do the right thing before – you do not get to be a precedent for the next jackass wanting a pass.
@stonetools: No, it doesn’t change my view because in what world where the police have a tape of a guy punching a woman in the face and knocking her out isn’t enough evidence for them to press charges and put him in jail? That was my point – you don’t need her to press charges if you’ve got evidence like that. If a criminal offense has been committed and you have evidence, it’s up to the state to press charges.
And like all the other armchair psychologists on the internet, I’m only speculating as to her state of mind as an abused spouse. But the fact is – when you have the abusive incident on tape – there was no reason aside from him being rich and famous* that charges shouldn’t have been pressed.
The step further I would take that I freely admit is bluesky naive was that I believe – based on being an armchair psychologist on the internet – that he should also have been jailed until his trial to protect her, since restraining orders are ineffective at protecting abused partners.
What really bothers me about this is the collusion on the parts of, well, everyone. The casino employee who gave him an out – “Is she drunk?” and “No police.” The police who apparently bowed to whatever pressure was exerted to let him out of a felony charge, although they had video evidence, to put him into a ‘program.’
This is sadly common in DV cases. They’re not taken seriously. This is why women don’t report rape. This is why women stay with abusers. What I hear a lot of people saying on this thread, including Dr. Joyner, is that felonies don’t matter if the victims don’t want to press charges. It should be up to the victim.
Yeah, I do disagree with that premise and I will continue to disagree with it.
@Jenos Idanian #13
If you could read you’d know what I’m saying and wouldn’t have to make up lies.
@KM:
Who are to make judgments on this? Everyone in this country is forgiven, but Ray Rice?
You’re the jackass passing judgment offering absolutely no salvation for Ray.
Its real easy to take the moral high ground on the Internet. It’s none of your business
If the police want to charge him, they can, but his wife has forgiven him. Why can’t you respect that! The guy deserves a one year suspension. That’s all.
@KM:
So you have to destroy the quality of life of Janay Rice to save her life. I fail to follow the logic. I guess being self-righteous is just too tempting for people to pass up. I guess making the life of Janay Rice and the daughter she had with Ray Rice worse is a good thing in the long run for some people.
@Blue Galangal:
Janay Rice pressing charges and wanting short term revenge just makes her life harder in the long run. She did a balancing act and made her own decision. If women are capable of making decisions about abortion and birth control, then why not trust them to make decisions on who they want to marry or not. It seems that all of the progressives want to abandon the logic they follow on abortion, birth control, or even gay marriage when it comes to domestic violence. Why not follow the same logic?
So why do football players get to commit felonies and not have to worry about their careers.
If Rice worked at a regular job and assaulted his wife he would likely have been sent to prison like every other average joe and nobody would care about his career. Rice avoided the slammer because he had wealth and money and the DA used his discretion to give him the rich man’s diversion and let him off.
Now Rice gets to learn that violence comes with consequences outside what the government decides to do.
He may be able to rehabilitate himself enough to get a job in football or his chosen field. In the end his fame will still probably keep him from staying unemployed.
@ Jenos
I never said I was “proud” of owning guns, that is something you made up, and you are now repeating yet another position you have invented for me, even though I already corrected you on it once. I am no more “proud” of owning guns than I am proud of owning a crescent wrench. My manhood does not flow from firearms.
And yes, I think citizen carry types are knuckleheads. There is no good reason for an average citizen to walk around packing heat. The fact that I engage in responsible gun ownership does not require me to endorse behavior that often has tragic consequences. Is that just too hard for you to understand?
Your opinion, as usual, is uninformed. You don’t appear to know any specifics of Rice’s finances. Perhaps he is an astute investor. Perhaps he has an astute investor working for him. You are basically running your mouth in spite of the fact you have nothing of value to offer.
Yet another position you’ve invent for me. You seem to have some sort of hangup about what I am “proud” of. You might want to stop worrying about my alleged pridefullness, stop making up positions for me that I have never actually taken, and, you know, get a life.
@Just Me: No, if this had been a first time offense for any regular joe, they would have gotten the same penalty as Rice. This isn’t some celebrity treatment thing, domestic violence laws in this country aren’t that tough.
@C. Clavin:
Mrs. Rice: From your lips to God’s ears. I hope that you are right. Statistically, the odds are against you.
Dr. Joyner: They’re ALWAYS and ALL isolated, one-time incidences. Even the 100th.
@superdestroyer:
Just to note, that statistic indicates that your proposed outcome is likely even if he completes his career. The grammar police are crying foul, though–78% of players are (either) bankrupt, jobless, OR divorced–but not necessarily all three. Additionally, joblessness may be a different experience for NFL players than for Subway sandwich artists–how many are jobless either by choice or by lack of need to take “whatever work is available”?
Personally, I’m of the opinion that the revised ruling is a face-saving move on the part of the NFL and is probably less than salutary because of that factor. Still in all, your conclusion that their action is most likely the sole cause of their doom is a leap even for you.
And when did you become concerned about the specter of black poverty anyway?
@superdestroyer:
By your logic, all women and men who are victims of domestic violence at the hands of a breadwinner should shut up since it “makes their lives harder in the long run.” He screwed up and got fired because he embarrassed his bosses. Why aren’t his bosses entitled to fire him for that cause? Why did you abandon your pro-corporate logic? Do you really hate women that much?
@Lyle:
And you’re the same kind of judgmental jackass taking the supposed moral high ground on the internet in something that’s none of your business either, thinking your high-handed opinion is somehow different. Who are YOU to think you have the right to determine what a proper punishment is? You don’t get to decide his fate – his boss does. Your opinion of a year suspension clearly wasn’t good enough for the people paying that check so what do you know? Nothing, that’s what – you’re a commenter on a blog like me. Salvation is not for you or me to offer in this case but to his freaking employer…. and they’ve had enough. They are not obligated to give him a second chance, no matter what you think. No one is entitled a second chance in this world, you earn it and prove you’re worth it.
I really don’t care if his wife forgives him; that has absolutely nothing to do with the fact that he broke the law. I don’t see why people are acting like it’s some sort of panacea – “Look, she forgave him! It never happened. Nothing to see here, move on!” Her forgiveness has nothing to do with the fact that he violated the terms of his job; it doesn’t wipe away a video nor erase the fact the NFL has a viewership very very aware that this man committed an assault then lied to them about it. The law and his contract doesn’t require her forgiveness to function.
She forgives him? Good for him and good for her. Warm fuzzies all around. The boss’ decision still stands – they want him gone before he drags anybody else down with him.
@superdestroyer:
Yes, you should avoid that – it’s not a good look on you. I’m mean, being so self-righteous that you believe you know better then his employer on how his job and punishment should be handled …. my my, so bold! Why, it’s almost like you have an opinion to share on some sort of communication board! The nerve, people acting like they’re bothered by an abuser trying to skate due to his money and fame! Those judgmental idiots should listen to you since clearly your judgement is somehow different and not at all self-righteous!
@James Joyner;
I think it’s because there is great sympathy for her as an abuse victim as Janay-in-the-tape. This Janay is seen being struck and it hits right in the feels – where society and basic humanity has decided this is not an Acceptable Thing we do to others. It’s visceral and gets the point across that he did something wrong.
Janay-in-the-Media is getting less automatic sympathy (and even some pushback in some places) because her words and actions run counter to what a reasonable person might expect. it’s gone beyond choosing to stay with her abuser (sad but tragically common) to actively trying to get his income source back. While an understandable sentiment, it’s striking many as it’s all about the money. Money is where this mess keeps getting bogged down – he gets away with assault (two measly games) due to money. The paying viewership is expect to go and cheer for this man – so the owners can get paid. Money minimized this and now money’s making it blow up again. Now we are supposed to care they’re gone from millionaires to a regular American salary/lifestyles; we’re expected to grieve that she’s not going to have fabulous wealth but might have to make do like others. Wealth she did nothing to earn herself, mind you, but by virtue of her marriage to the jerk in question.
Is she getting victimized again? Perhaps. Still, it’s her hand typing out those messages, it’s her making these statements to the press. It’s her that brought it up like her concern is on the bank and not the man that could hit her child like he did her. Woman’s not gonna starve on the streets, James, unlike some women I know who escaped from abuse. She has options that those ladies would have killed for. It gets hard to be sympathetic to a second victimization claim when she’s actively participating in said victimization-in-progress.
@KM:How is Janay participating in this victimization? She never asked for TMZ to release that video. And what is this nonsense that her concern is the money? You don’t know this women and you don’t her know relationship with Rice. Seriously, the fact that you think that her primary concern is money says a ton about your views about women.
@Lyle:
Most Domestic Abusers ask for forgiveness and then they abuse all over again.
@JR:
There’s that self-righteousness again. Been here long? I’m female but it’s good to know some random person on the internet thinks they know my views on my own gender. Pat yourself on the back for that one.
Ok genius, here’s a basic question: why does she want him to have his job back then, if not to get paid? Does she really want him to keep in shape running up and down the field all day? So he’s not bored and hanging around the house? Why did James even write this column in the first place? What exactly do you think having a job is for – entertainment value? If it’s not about the money, think she’ll be cool with him playing for free just so he can do what he’s “worked his ass of for” with pride? Goodell might be down with that punishment…..
@KM: I don’t give a damn if your a female, you don’t know this women or what her reasons are for staying with Rice and you are making swift judgements on a relationship about two people we don’t know a thing about. For all we know she could be staying with this guy because she truly loves him and wants to move past this and rebuild their relationship or she could even be a battered female, the point is we don’t know and it isn’t our place to judge her.
Plus, she can divorce this guy and take more then half of what he has made in the NFL already and live comfortably for the rest of her life.
@JR:
Did you read what you just wrote? You tell me I’m judging her by pointing out that one of her concerns that her husband’s job is gone is money to live off of…. and then point out she can take his money and run. So your point is money is a factor in play here but I’m a bad person to say anything?
I don’t give a damn what you are, either. Please stop swift judgements on a relationship about two people we don’t know a thing about as well – you’re doing it too but are getting all cranky about it. I find it interesting you’re so quick to try and take me to task for “judging” their relationship when you are the one to bring divorce & payout into the equation. Reread this thread – I’ve repeatedly stated she’s free to chose whatever she wants to do, for better or for ill. I really don’t care what state her personal relationship is with Rice right now. He’s fired because of his actions, period. She’s free to feel any damn way she wants about it, tweet whatever she wants about it, say her piece whenever. Doesn’t mean it’s going to make one bit of difference to his employer, the person who has any power in this situation.
Why do people keep making this about the current state of their relationship? He got fired for DV, for documented assault. He committed a crime. Doesn’t matter if they run away to the Bahamas for a second wedding – he still has to answer for what he did then. They can change their future, but the past is set in stone. These are consequences for what was done, not was is now. Love heals all wounds, not wipes the criminal ledger clean.
@anjin-san: How is pointing out how you carefully don’t take positions somehow “misstating” your positions?
You have a really predictable schtick, annie. You wait for someone to take a position. You then deride them. Then, when they quite logically infer that you disagree with the position they’ve taken, you then deride them for assuming that you hold a contrary position.
You contribute nothing to the discussion. You just bring your special brand of ad hominem without actually saying anything about the topic at hand, because you don’t ever want to be in the position of defending what you say. You’re all attack, and you craft your attack to be on the individual, not the issue.
Discussing things with you is a waste of time, because your arguments boil down to “I don’t like you.” And, quite frankly, I am pretty comfortable with you not liking me.
@Jenos Idanian #13:
Pot, meet kettle.
@Jr:
I guess you did not read the article that say that none of the money was earned during the marriage and with a marriage of less than a year, I doubt if the courts would give her much beyond generous child support.
Jesus, this may be the most disheartening thread I’ve seen here. Everyone seems to know what has happened, what should happen, and what will happen to the Rices. They can see their souls and minds. They know what is best for all involved. Yes, I know, what the hell do I expect from an internet comment board? I just thought better of a lot of the people on here.
For all you people pointing your finger at ray rice, please talk to your black friends and ask them what they think. I spoke to 3 of mine who all support Ray and Janay Rice. They consider yours and the media reaction insulting. I’d like to hear from some black people on here instead of the self righteous people.
Just walk away, Janay.
@Lyle:
What makes you think no one that’s already commented this board is black? Because the prevailing opinion doesn’t match yours or your friends?
Way to make the same assumptions you’re accusing others of, you self-righteous idiot.
@KM:
We’ve heard enough from you. Please STFU and I look forward to hearing from other people
@Rafer Janders:
Nice…I’m going to have that song in my head all morning…but nice.
Lyle, why don’t you STFU? Who made you the mod?
Why would a black persons opinion carry more weight on this issue than anyone else’s?
@anjin-san:
Thanks for asking. I admit that my immediate reaction to this was similar to to the majority of responses on here. I have a diverse group of friends and was at first suprised that my black friends were all adamant that this was a faux media outrage. They found it insulting and degrading that the media has portrayed this woman as a scared victim or an idiot just concerned about protecting her husbands money. It seemed to them that it was white society lecturing them on how she should behave. This story is also not new. There have been a number of similar incidents the last few years in the NFL http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2014/09/09/the-nfl-is-full-of-ray-rices.html but now this one suddenly merits non stop national media attention. The media is using this to drive ratings because most people are morons who don’t want to watch real news regarding the numerous issues in the world, ISIS, Russia, immigration, etc..
@Bill:
Free Speech buddy. I don’t need the same arguments reiterated to me over and over again. when someone just repeats the same verbatim over and over, I feel the need to say STFU. If you want to say that to me, that;s cool. At least Anjin actually asked me a question and why I felt this way instead of a righteous lecture that makes it seem like I condone domestic abuse.
@Lyle:
KM has the same free speeech, buddy. Don’t like, don’t read. Explain yourself better instead of just telling people to shut up. Not her fault you’re not clear.
@ Lyle
Mr. & Mrs. Rice have discovered that being high profile public figures can have a considerable downside, not just a considerable upside, and that the media loves to tear people down once they have built them up. Nothing really new here. It’s not a race issue, aside perhaps from the predictable assumption in some quarters that Rice lacks the ability to parlay the considerable fortune he has earned thus far in his career into any kind of financial security.
@Lyle:
You are correct in that the media doesn’t really care about anything but ratings. The NFL is utter crap are reigning in their players and dealing with problems. Too much goes on that doesn’t get the attention or justice it deserves. Justice is uneven at best, attention is based on sensationalism. I agree with you 100% there.
I’m still not sure why that’s supposed to mitigate Rice’s situation. Pointing out the media’s getting ratings off this (their job) doesn’t change a thing on the actual facts of the case. People angry about the attention this case is getting are also making the point that Rice’s punishment should be lessened. They are the ones tying media focus to an appeal for leniency, which honestly isn’t a great way to convince people you’re not trying to minimize a terrible act. Maybe those people really do think Rice can be rehabilitated or that Janay’s being re-victimized due to the NFL’s actions but that sincerity is getting lost in the media-is-evil meme. If Rice deserves a second chance, it’s not because TMZ hurt his feelings.
@anjin-san: It’s not a race issue, aside perhaps from the predictable assumption in some quarters that Rice lacks the ability to parlay the considerable fortune he has earned thus far in his career into any kind of financial security.
Way to go out on a limb there, annie.
Rice 1) has a history of making bad decisions, 2) is in a field where almost 4 out of 5 end up bankrupt within 2 years of retiring, 3) has a degree that he has not used and is not exactly at the top of the list for earning power, and 4) is currently poison to the general public.
To say that he is likely to suffer severe financial hardship is not an assumption, it’s a logical prediction. Yes, he could beat the odds — but I sure as hell wouldn’t bet on it.
But no, let’s cover your mealy-mouthing. It’s not guaranteed. But how confident are you that he will? Come on, just once, annie, actually take a position on something.
@Jenos Idanian #13:
So, you are hoping and betting that Ray Rice goes broke?. The guy busted his ass his whole life to become an elite NFL player. The guy makes a mistake,a big one and he should suffer the rest of his life? Let’s take $$ out of the equation and assume Ray Rice loves playing football. Did you know a lot of guys that play are not all about the money. You may also want to understand why so many ex players including white players go broke then just assuming they are dumb and waste money on bling.
@Jenos Idanian #13:
1) Other than the particular bad decision we are discussing, that has nothing to do with financial acumen, what is his history of making bad decisions? Is there some evidence that he is bad with finances?
2) The article that mentioned bankruptcy of NFL players said that nearly 4 of 5 were bankrupt, jobless, OR divorced withing 2 years of retirement. That is NOT the same thing as nearly 4 of 5 being bankrupt within 2 years. If I had just earned several million dollars over the past 10 years or so, I would likely choose to be jobless for a while and live off of investments until I was bored enough to look for work as something to do rather than something to support myself and my family.
3) Is no doubt true, but he is sitting on a giant pile of cash so is better off than most people with a ‘real’ degree.
4) Is also true, but will be forgotten soon enough. The public has a short attention span for outrage. Like Michael Vick, some time will pass, people will stop caring, and in a year or three he will be back if he is still good enough to compete.
@ Grewgills
Good point. I know some retired pro athletes. Even the guys who played in the pre-megabucks era live a lifestyle that most folks would envy, and some of them are very, very wealthy. None of them are broke.
I’m also going to speculate that if Peyton Manning’s career and endorsements ended tomorrow because of a scandal, no one would be predicting imminent bankruptcy for him. The cultural assumption that he – a white guy – knows how to handle his money is more or less baked in.
@Lyle:
To be fair, I don’t think Jenos is arguing that Rice should be punished as severely as he is being punished or that he should go broke. He is arguing that Rice likely will go broke with this punishment.
@Lyle: So, you are hoping and betting that Ray Rice goes broke?
I dunno where you got “hoping” from. But I think I laid out the reasons why, if I were inclined to wager on it, I would wager that he’ll be in financial trouble in relatively short order. For example, if I were to wager on a rematch between Mr. Rice and the now Mrs. Rice, I would acknowledge that there was a chance she would prevail in a fight — but I wouldn’t bet on that, either.
As far as him “busting his ass” — so what? That doesn’t serve as an excuse for anything. Simple effort doesn’t guarantee results.
But then again, I’ve never been a sports fan. The “redemption” of Michael Vick surprised the hell out of me. Maybe sports fans don’t have the moral fortitude I thought they might.
However, this does raise an interesting point: how would folks rank the moral reprehensibility of Mr. Rice, Michael Vick, and Donald Sterling? I know I’m mixing basketball and football, but it’s all pro sports…
@Grewgills: To be fair, I don’t think Jenos is arguing that Rice should be punished as severely as he is being punished or that he should go broke. He is arguing that Rice likely will go broke with this punishment.
THANK YOU. Nice to see that someone can actually read what I write, and not project what they want to think on to it.
@ Lyle
I’m going to note that I don’t have “black friends” – I just have friends. Do you attach a racial label to everyone you know? I do have friends that are black, and they are probably not going to be thrilled if I start asking them to weigh in on perceived “black issues.”
This sort of thinking is a subtle form of racism, even if there is no ill intent behind it. Morgan Freeman summed it up nicely in an interview with Mike Wallace:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GeixtYS-P3s
@anjin-san:
Wow. You serious? I’m making a point to this forum.
How else should I describe my black friends? I am giving you
The perspective of my friends that are black. They have a different POV
Btw, these are real friends who I hang out with and not some fake Internet Facebook buddy.
Real people who would laugh at my “subtle racism”
I thought we could have an honest discussion, but I guess in wrong
@Jenos Idanian #13:
I’m a big sport fan so maybe I have a different perspective on this. I respect athletes. It takes a lot of hard work and dedication. Yes, there are plenty of guys who are stupid and reckless and blow their opportunities. Still, the guy should not lose his Career over this. He’s never been in trouble with the law and has been a good teammate and person aside from this one incident. We are supposed to the most forgiving society in the world. We’ve forgiven a lot of scumbags over the year, but for some reason this guy is blackballed.
He made a horrible mistake that he regrets, but don’t assume he’s suddenly going to blow all his money. IF you are really interested in how and why athletes blow their money, check out ESPN 30 for 30 http://espn.go.com/30for30/film?page=broke
As for Sterling and Vick, those are completely different cases. As a dog lover, I loathe Michael Vick, but the guy did his time, paid restitution, lost millions, and has stayed out of trouble. As much as I hated him and still do, he deserved another chance just like everyone else.
@ Lyle
How about “my friends”?
Do you describe friends that are white as “my white friends”? Do you have “Chinese friends” and “Peruvian friends”? My experience, which is pretty long at this point in my life, is that people get tired of constantly having a racial identifier attached to them. White folks don’t give it much thought because it generally does not happen to us.
I have no idea if you actually have any friends who are black, nor do I really care. I do know that my oldest friend is black, we go back nearly half a century. One thing he has said pretty consistently over the years is “why do people see me as a black guy first? Why can’t I just be another guy”?
Is that POV difficult for you to understand?
@Lyle: Save your time, Lyle. anjin’s only role is to attack. He never defends anything, never advocates for anything, his whole purpose is to find areas where he can attack others and mock and deride them over trivial side issues.
And he never attacks anyone on the left, oddly enough. He’s remarkably sympathetic towards them by his actions, but he makes a point of not actually backing up their statements.
@Lyle:
My suggestion still stands: Let him play for free or minimum wage. If he worked so hard just to play football for the love of the game, then let the man play but with COL adjustment (maybe the average American salary as a baseline?) so his “busting his ass” doesn’t go to waste. If he can do it, keep clean, go to counseling or community service and be properly grateful for the chance given to him (no media fits) for at least a year – he might see the public turn in his favor. No millions, no endorsements, no money on the side deals; just Rice and the ball, purely for the sport he loves, right? Forgiveness on the NFL’s part to let him do what he was doing, just not profiting off it as punishment.
Somehow I sincerely doubt that offer would be accepted or even welcome, despite it keeping him in the NFL (and thus persevering a career). What do you think?
@anjin-san:
i didn’t exactly call my friends who happen to be black and ask what they thought. I had about a bunch of friends over Sunday to watch football and we got into a discussion about it. AGAIN, I am telling you what three of my friends thought. This was their perspective on how the Media is dealing with this and what their opinion was on the situation. I wanted to offer people here another perspective, but suddenly you’re saying that I’m a Racist because I singled out their opinion.
How come you don’t upset when there are POLLS that specifically monitor choices and preferences of black people? In your reasoning, it should be irrelevant then on how many blacks voted for Obama or how blacks feel about Ferguson?
@ Lyle, MR X, whoever you are.
Multiple identities on a single tread? If you are here to play games, Jenos is probably greased up and ready to go. Have at it.
@anjin-san:
Nope. Same guy. I have two names. One for my desktop and the other mobile which I signed in different times. Does that change anything? I ‘m still a person with an opinion that called you out for being a clown who is quick to call people racist because I used the term black friends.
What happened? Did you get tired of insulting Jenos? You never seek to understand why people have different opinions that you. You just want to live on this site and have people affirm your beliefs. why don’t you Man up and respond to my last post of calling people out who actually socialize with people from different backgrounds. I know you don’t because you’re on this site all day and night pointing your finger at people. You’re a Coward. i’ve had plenty of disagreements with people on this site, but I’ve at least had the balls to admit when I’m wrong or my opinion was changed by a strong argument.
@KM:
He likely would only get the league minimum, no guaranteed contract if he did come back. a low contract with incentives. The Players Union would never allow what you suggested. He could though donate a nice chunk of his salary to a charity that helps battered women.
He will eventually though probably go on Oprah and do an apology tour which is a prerequisite for him getting his career back. If he starts down a bad path and does this again to Janay, I am with you that he is done and should be locked you for a fair amount of time.
What’s the over-and-under on Goodell’s departure from the NFL?
@MR X LYLE:
I’m not the moderator…but there is no reason to use different ID’s for different devices.
Where did I call you a racist?
What I did actually say is that attaching racial identifieres to people is a subtle form of racism that can be practiced by people without any ill intent. Racism is deeply baked into our society, and people often engage in behavior that has racist aspects without being anything near what I would categorize as a “racist.”
I know that I probably keep a closer eye on a group of black teenagers that is headed my way than I would a similar group of white kids. A lifetime of receiving messages that say “young black males are dangerous” has affected my behavior, even if the rational part of my brain does not believe them.
At any rate, you are getting a bit hysterical now, so I will leave you to it and move on.
@ C. Clavin
I know that as a 49ers fan, the teams wrist slap policy towards egregious behavior has made me less interested in following the team. Bill Walsh would not have put up with some of this crap for five minutes.
@anjin-san: Coaches like Walsh, Gibbs, Shula, and Ditka are a thing of the past.
@ Tyrell
Ditka was a loudmouth asshole who once spat on a 49ers fan. He does not deserve to have his name mentioned with those other fine coaches, who were both winners and sportsmen.
@Tyrell:
Ditka took the ball away from Walter Payton and gave it to the Fridge…thus robbing him of the chance for a touchdown in a Super Bowl game.
Don’t ever speak the name Ditka in my presence again.
@C. Clavin: I saw that this morning on Balloon Juice. Interesting. Also the fact that the prosecutor who declined to prosecute Rice for assault went ahead with prosecuting a woman with a legal concealed carry permit in one state who carried that handgun into NJ because she didn’t know she couldn’t. She wasn’t allowed into the diversion program but Mr. Video was.
@Lyle: It’s just that the way he reacted after he punched her makes a lot of us think that this wasn’t the first time that this has happened, either with her, or with other people….there was no “oh my god what have I done?!”, no attempt to check to make sure she was ok, nothing. Just dragging her out of the elevator like she was a piece of dead meat.
What he did after he snapped is just as important as the fact he snapped.
(And she comes across like a classical battered wife. Hence the skepticism.
Bingo. Rice’s behavior makes him look like a bad guy who had everyone fooled, not a good guy who made a horrible mistake in the heat of the moment.
Even if we stipulate the “heat of the moment” there is no excuse for men hitting women, ever. And that goes double for someone with the physique Rice has. He could easily kill her without meaning to.