• Facebook
  • Twitter
  • Subscribe
  • RSS

Sarah Palin – John McCain’s VP Choice

BREAKING: Alaska Governor Sarah Palin has been tabbed as John McCain’s vice presidential running mate, CNBC reports.

________________________

Earlier this morning, all signs were pointing to Tim Pawlenty as John McCain’s running mate.  He even had issued the requisite “I’m not the guy” statement.

His name has been on the short list all along and, while he’s not an exciting choice, he doesn’t bring the liability of the other names that we’ve been hearing.

Mitt Romney is the obvious choice.  Despite Mike Huckabee ultimately getting a few more votes by hanging in long after it was over, Romney was easily the second choice of Republican primary voters.   He’s attractive, relatively young, and has a strong resume.   But he and McCain seem to genuinely dislike each other and there are plenty of negative sound bytes from the primaries for the Democrats to use in their ads.  And then there’s the “he owns more than one house” problem.  And the Mormon problem.

Huckabee would be the best choice if the election were going to be decided by Evangelicals.  It won’t be, however.

Joe Lieberman would be the guy if it McCain had his druthers.  The two are good friends and would work well together.  It would also be the boldest serious choice available and a strong play in the contest to attract moderates and even conservative Democrats.   But it’s too risky.  McCain has enough trouble with the base that he’s not going to be able to pull the trigger on a pro-choice fellow who, despite being hated by the Democrats, votes with his former party 80 percent of the time.

Condi Rice, Sarah Palin, Bobby Jindal and other longshot choices would liven up the race.  They’d also undercut key parts of McCain’s message.  Neither Palin nor Jindal are more experienced than Obama and it’s hard to run as a maverick who’s not a third Bush term running with  Bush’s chief foreign policy advisor.

UPDATE:  ABC reports that Palin in still in Alaska, seeming to rule her out logistically.  They also report that Pawlenty has received a call saying he’s not the guy.  Which means, as it did with Biden, he’s either 1) actually not the guy or 2) telling a little white lie to keep the suspense going a little longer.

UPDATE II:   Now AP says, “Two GOP strategists close to the McCain campaign said all indications pointed to Palin.”  Drudge has had a McCain-Palin logo atop his site most of the morning, despite no links to stories (until this one) indicating Palin was a likely choice.

Aside from being young and hot-for-a-politician, though, Palin undercuts McCain’s entire campaign theme. She’s got less political experience and less foreign policy experience than Obama.

UPDATE:  More from CNBC, which seems to be the first to go on the record with Palin as the choice.

Alaska Gov. Sarah Palin, a self-styled “hockey mom” who has only been governor for a little over a year, is GOP Presidential candidate John McCain’s choice for Vice President, CNBC has learned. According to a Republican strategist, Palin is the nominee, though McCain’s campaign has not comfirmed this. [But have they confirmed it? -ed.]

[...]

At 44, Palin is younger than Obama and, like McCain, she calls herself a maverick.

I’d never heard of Palin before the VP buzz started on the blogs a while back. She’s supposedly an excellent campaigner. And, obviously, her youth and gender make her a bold pick. Ultimately, though, I think she doesn’t make sense. If you’re running on “the country’s security is too important to be run by neophytes,” you can’t have one as next in line.

While Joe Biden was, twice, an awful presidential candidate, he’s a plausible president. Sarah Palin is not.

I hope CNBC is wrong.

UPDATE:  AP is running with the story, too.

UPDATE:  They’ve gone from qualifiers to a bold statement that Palin’s the one:

UPDATE: CNN‘s on board, too:

Palin, 44, who’s in her first term as governor, is a pioneering figure in Alaska, the first woman and the youngest person to hold the state’s top political job.

She catapulted to the post with a strong reputation as a political outsider, forged during her stint in local politics. She was mayor and a council member of the small town of Wasilla and was chairman of the state Oil and Gas Conservation Commission, which regulates Alaska’s oil and gas resources, in 2003 and 2004.

The conservative Palin defeated two so-called political insiders to win the governor’s job — incumbent Gov. Frank Murkowski in the GOP primary and former two-term Democratic Gov. Tony Knowles in the 2006 general election.

Palin made her name in part by backing tough ethical standards for politicians. During the first legislative session after her election, her administration passed a state ethics law overhaul.

Palin’s term has not been without controversy. A legislative investigation is looking into allegations that Palin fired Alaska’s public safety commissioner because he refused to fire the governor’s former brother-in-law, a state trooper.  Palin acknowledged that a member of her staff made a call to a trooper in which the staffer suggested he was speaking for the governor. Palin has admitted that the call could be interpreted as pressure to fire state trooper Mike Wooten, who was locked in a child-custody battle with Palin’s sister. “I am truly disappointed and disturbed to learn that a member of this administration contacted the Department of Public Safety regarding Trooper Wooten,” Palin said. “At no time did I authorize any member of my staff to do so.”

She’s going to make us pine for the days of Dan Quayle, methinks.

TIME, at least, is happy with the boldness of the pick, going with the headline: “McCain’s Surprise Pick: Sarah Palin.”  The text, thus far, is just AP wire copy.

WSJ is hailing the pick.

The move is the most dramatic in a series of efforts to appeal to Hillary Clinton supporters still disappointed that she didn’t capture the Democratic nomination. Gov. Palin also reinforces Sen. McCain’s reformer image. She took on her state’s political establishment that had been rocked by an FBI corruption investigation.

[...]

At the same time, her thin resume runs the risk of undercutting a central attack by Sen. McCain against Sen. Obama: That he isn’t ready to serve as president. The ability of Sen. McCain’s vice president to step into the top job is seen as particularly important given his age: He turns 72 today and would be the oldest person ever to enter the White House.

Even as Alaska governor, Gov. Palin has been criticized for her sparse experience. “Sarah is a small town mayor running Alaska as if it’s a small town,” says Frank Smith, a former union and Democratic Party activist in Alaska. “McCain is out of his mind. He has no foreign policy experience and she’ll help because she’s been fishing in Canada.”

[...]

The Republican Party’s conservative base — long wary of Sen. McCain and angry in recent weeks about hints he may pick a pro-choice running mate — hailed the move.

“Conservatives will be thrilled with this pick. Gov. Palin is a down the line mainstream conservative who will energize the base and reach across party lines attracting women voters, independents and blue collar Democrats,” Greg Mueller, a Republican strategist, and former aide to Republican presidential candidates Steve Forbes and Pat Buchanan, said in a blast email. “Governor Palin is a terrific contrast to the all Washington ticket of Obama-Biden. She is a wonderful contrast to Biden, and a truly outside the beltway pick.”

We’ll see what the reaction turns out to be.  I’m certainly not the target audience.  But McCain’s first big decision is, in my mind, a truly awful one.   Obama went traditional but steady in Biden.  It wasn’t a bold pick but it was one that butressed his claim that he has judgment even though he lacks experience.   McCain has done the opposite here.

Update:  I’ll have more on Palin in subsequent threads as I get to know her a bit better and have time to digest it.  Since my take has been so negative, though, I thought I’d add some praise from an unlikely source, Charles Homans, a new editor at Washington Monthly who “lived in and reported on Alaska for the entirety of Sarah Palin’s tenure as governor.”

Palin can legitimately claim the maverick reformist credentials that McCain himself has long since lost. Her pro-life record helps McCain with the Republican base, her gender might lure away a few Hillary bitter-enders, and her youth goes a little way towards compensating one of McCain’s major weaknesses. Palin also manages the Obama-esque feat of commanding a great deal of popularity among people who don’t really know what she stands for–Dave Dittman, an Anchorage-based pollster, who has done a lot of polling and thinking about this, pointed out to me several months ago that Palin was maintaining a 85 percent approval rating among Alaskan voters even when her policies (particularly a natural gas line deal that has been a signature ambition of her administration) polled far short of that, and even when voters had trouble accurately describing her political leanings. She also pretty much guarantees a McCain victory in her home state, where Obama has been polling astoundingly well (Alaska hasn’t gone for a Democrat since Lyndon Johnson).

It’s not much, to be sure, but useful in an admission against interests sort of way.  That Mark Levin and the like are stoked is, by contrast, decidedly less comforting.

Related Posts:

About James Joyner
James Joyner is the publisher of Outside the Beltway, an associate professor of security studies at the Marine Corps Command and Staff College, and a nonresident senior fellow at the Atlantic Council. He's a former Army officer and Desert Storm vet. He has a PhD in political science from The University of Alabama. Views expressed here are his own. Follow James on Twitter.

Comments

  1. Maggie Mama says:

    Palin?

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

  2. sam says:

    Tim Pawlenty will be John McCain’s running mate. All signs are pointing that way. He’s even issued the requisite “I’m not the guy” statement.

    I dunno. I’m watching Morning Joe right now, and the consensus there is he ain’t gonna be the one. They’re seriously talking about Lieberman.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

  3. Steve Schippert says:

    The rundown of reports:

    1. Pawlenty said not him. Probably true, bad to start with deception vice silence.

    2. ABC says Palin still in Alaska – it’s a long flight to Dayton. If correct, she’s out.

    3. Romney said not him.

    4. Lieberman is still on Long Island, last I knew. And McCain will not throw the conservative base baby out with the bathwater at this point. He’s a ‘maverick’ but he isn’t dumb.

    That leaves the one man left on McCain’s final three names, which I learned of early this week.

    Representative Eric Cantor (R – VA). No one has said boo, and McCain has managed the best kept secret thus far, and that would follow suit.

    So it appears to me.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

  4. Hal says:

    Dear god, please let it be Lieberman.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

  5. Jim Henley says:

    Moderate Voice reports that MSNBC says Lieberman is actually in Ohio today. It’s either him, or someone’s lying.

    My understanding is that, outside Minnesota, nobody’s ever heard of Tim Pawlenty, and inside Minnesota, he’s not actually that popular.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

  6. Hal says:

    No way. God simply doesn’t love me that much.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

  7. Jim Henley says:

    God clearly doesn’t like Mike Huckabee that much, and the Angel Moroni seems decidedly cool to Mitt Romney, so maybe your celestial stock has risen, Hal.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

  8. Hal says:

    Lucifer finally gets invited to a party in the primum mobile room in the silver city.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

  9. sam says:

    I think this militates against Palin:

    Alaska governor investigation launched
    Thursday, August 14, 2008

    JUNEAU, Alaska — Gov. Sarah Palin, a rising young GOP star mentioned as a possible running mate for John McCain, could see her clean-hands reputation damaged by a growing furor over whether she tried to get her former brother-in-law fired as a state trooper.

    A legislative panel has launched a $100,000 investigation to determine if Palin dismissed Alaska’s public safety commissioner because he would not fire the trooper, Mike Wooten. Wooten went through a messy divorce from Palin’s sister.

    Palin has denied the commissioner’s dismissal had anything to do with her former brother-in-law. And she denied orchestrating the dozens of telephone calls made by her husband and members of her administration to Wooten’s bosses.

    Palin said she welcomes the investigation: “Hold me accountable.”

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

  10. sam says:

    Well, NBC reporting Palin as the pick right now.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

  11. Dantheman says:

    Let’s see — putting a person with 2 years experience as governor of a tiny state (by population — when I was there in 1993, there was a movement to split the state in two to make Texas the third largest state) a heartbeat away from the Presidency — destroys the experience argument.

    nominating a person who has appeared on magazine covers as “America’s Hottest Governor” — destroys the celebrity meme.

    plus, someone who is (as sam noted) under investigation for corruption and involving state agencies to resolve a family dispute.

    I’d call this at least a triple!

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

  12. cas says:

    I think Gov. Palin is the BOLD choice, which is so indicative of McCain. She will agree with him on issues much more than she disagrees with him, and where she disagrees, she is more conservative than he is.
    Although many may say that she does not have the experience necessary for the job, I would venture that she has MORE executive experience than Sen Obama or Sen Biden; retired CAPT McCain had more executive experience BEFORE he ever became a legislator.
    Even the supposed “investigation into allegations” of undue influence in the matter of the firing of her sister’s ex-husband would likely elicit more sympathy from many women, since there is documentation of abuse by her ex-brother-in-law (I’m sure we’ll hear more about this)
    But this also brings many of the moderate women voters who may have wanted to vote for Sen Clinton into the Republican tent.
    There was only one choice that I thought would have been even bolder; Michael Steele, former Lt Gov of Maryland.
    All of these VP candidates would make excellent choices for various McCain cabinet posts; Sen Liebermann, Sec State; Gov Rommney, Sec Treasury; etc.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

  13. Billy says:

    Wow.

    A desperate, failed gamble. This doesn’t kind of undercut McCain’s entire attack on Obama, it completely guts it.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

  14. Michael says:

    I think this militates against Palin:

    I would think McCain’s vetting people would have given that due consideration. Obviously they think it won’t be a big issue, or at least not as bad as what the alternatives would bring.

    Near as I can tell, from what I’ve read, the “victim” is an absolute piece of shit, and the “pressure” wasn’t coming from Palin herself. I think cas is right, it could be a (very small) positive more than a big negative.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

  15. jeff b says:

    Being governor of Alaska is an executive position on par with being the mayor of Tulsa, Oklahoma. This is one of the worst nominations since Harriet Miers was put forward for the Supreme Court.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

  16. There’s a ready made counter-argument to Palin’s (or any VP choice’s) lack of experience on a McCain ticket: it’s the VP slot, and not the main one, which means that the experience will be gained on the job. Assuming something awful doesn’t happen to McCain on day one, there’s time to gain some experience – arguably the best preparatory experience you could have.

    Not saying it’s a perfect counter-argument, but it’s there and it’s rather obvious. If the McCain camp is smart, it’s the one they’ll be making.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

  17. The Other Ed says:

    Palin?

    Well, McCain destroyed the Celeb meme that they spent all summer trying to create with his inability to remember how many houses he owns.

    Now he destroys the “Experience is vital” narrative with his Palin choice.

    What does he have left to run on?

    Maybe there are more POW PUMAs out there than I think but why does this remind me more of a Ferraro “just because she’s a woman” pick than anything else?

    Maybe he’s trying to recreate the Mondale electoral success!

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

  18. [...] Doesn’t Make Much Sense: “If you’re running on “the country’s security is too important to be run by neophytes,” you can’t have one as next in line.” (Outside the Beltway) [...]

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

  19. Also… this is a direct attempt by McCain to make a grab at the disgruntled Hillary supporters. It ties in with his Hillary ad that he ran recently, and it outlines (or perhaps dictates) his fall strategy. Modern presidential campaigns are won or lost at the margins. McCain’s decided to place his bets on moderate/independent women voters, thinking he can woo them away from the Democrat/Obama camp.

    Ordinarily I’d doubt this strategy. However, given the length of time that the Hillary supporters have stayed disgruntled and the fact that he’s just given them a legitimate reason to vote *for* him instead of just *against* Obama (ie, the chance for women to get ever closer to breaking that ultimate glass ceiling)… I think it has a chance. Not sure I’d bet money on it yet, but there’s definitely reason to think it might be a viable strategy.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

  20. anjin-san says:

    Seems like a gimmick pick to me, and it’s one that has been done already.

    Obama can’t be President because he is too young an too inexperienced? Guess that line is out the window…

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

  21. Hunter says:

    I think this is a great choice. If the Democrats what to whine that she doesn’t have enough experience… True she doesn’t have much, but she has more than Biden or Obama. She brings youth, energy and women. All in all I think her downsides are very over hyped. Anecdotally when I told my office about this (in a small southern town) our two secretaries (women) moved from the Obama camp and none of the curmudgeonly old men seemed to mind at all.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

  22. Instapundit has also pointed out, rightly I believe, that as a governor, Palin has more direct executive experience than either Obama *or* McCain. Obviously, he has to be careful how he plays that card or it undercuts his own argument, but it’s another strong argument against the “youth and inexperience” claim against Palin.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

  23. Hal says:

    Wow, nice to know that nothing has changed with my favor wrt god.

    In any event, the McCain/Palin ticket has the image of a rich old dude and his trophy wife.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

  24. Jamie says:

    Everty twenty years the GOP candidate chooses a surprise running mate–Agnew in ’68, Qayle in ’88–and subsequently wins the election.

    Palin is an exciting choice. I like the idea of her as VEEp.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

  25. floyd says:

    First, McCain was too old, but ["Walter"] Biden’s age is no issue.
    Now suddenly,Palin’s youth and inexperience are an issue since they only equal Obama’s??

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

  26. markm says:

    “Obama can’t be President because he is too young an too inexperienced? Guess that line is out the window…”

    Dunno, Obama’s mantra about “Change” in Washington and he picked a geezer that’s been there longer than McCain. I’ve heard Obama repeat that in his speech last night…taint out the window for him.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

  27. markm says:

    …and besides…she’s kinda hot.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

  28. Jamie says:

    It goes without saying that should be “Quayle.” It is ironic that I would misspell his name in particular.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

  29. Michael says:

    this is a direct attempt by McCain to make a grab at the disgruntled Hillary supporters. It ties in with his Hillary ad that he ran recently

    His ad claimed Hillary should have been picked because she got like 180 million votes. I don’t think Palin got quite so many. Unless McCain’s stance is that Hillary should have been picked just because she was a woman. I don’t think that will go over as well with the PUMAs as you think.

    If the Democrats what to whine that she doesn’t have enough experience… True she doesn’t have much, but she has more than Biden or Obama.

    You’re missing the point. The Democrats won’t be whining about her not having enough experience, but now McCain will have a more difficult time claiming that Obama doesn’t have enough experience. And seriously, you think she has more experience than Biden?

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

  30. [...] Joyner finds her to be a bold pick, but “not plausible” as a president. I’d never heard of Palin before the VP buzz started on the blogs a while back. She’s [...]

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

  31. Michael says:

    In any event, the McCain/Palin ticket has the image of a rich old dude and his trophy wife.

    Way to take the high road, Hal.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

  32. Hunter says:

    Sorry, forgot the “executive” qualifier. Biden does have far more public policy experience.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

  33. Michael says:

    His ad claimed Hillary should have been picked because she got like 180 million votes.

    Should be 18 million. A minor typo with a big impact.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

  34. Hal says:

    Way to take the high road, Hal.

    Dude, you obviously don’t read enough right wing blogs.

    I mean, read the comments here for “Bob’s” sake:

    has appeared on magazine covers as “America’s Hottest Governor”

    ..and besides…she’s kinda hot.

    In any event, Michael, politics isn’t played by the Marquess of Queensberry rules.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

  35. anjin-san says:

    but it’s another strong argument against the “youth and inexperience” claim against Palin.

    Strong argument? There are what, 680k people living in Alaska? Sorry, but there are more people living in Indianapolis.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

  36. Michael says:

    Dude, you obviously don’t read enough right wing blogs.

    Isn’t one enough?

    In any event, Michael, politics isn’t played by the Marquess of Queensberry rules.

    You don’t have to play nice, you just have to play honorably. At least, that’s my opinion on the matter. But like I said in another post, nobody would ever get elected doing what I think they should do.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

  37. Michael says:

    If anything, I think Palin at least re-enforces the “Maverick” image that Obama’s campaign has been trying so hard to dislodge.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

  38. Triumph says:

    With this VP choice, it becomes even more clear: McCain is in waaay over his head and, frankly, desperate.

    It seems appropriate that he is introducing this “hockey mom” at the Nutter Center–it’s absolutely nuts.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

  39. Triumph says:

    Oh, yeah….Also, she is NOT hot. Although her Tammy Faye style might help the ticket with the evangelicals.

    A hotter–and probably a smarter–choice would have been Coulter.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

  40. Chris says:

    Seems like the best pick of the choices available. She shores up the base (pro-life, NRA etc) as she is more conservative than McCain, she’s ‘outside the beltway’ and 44-years-old (the old ‘change’ mantra) and she’s a woman, so can perhaps siphon off some disaffected Hillsters, many of whom were looking towards McCain anyway.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

  41. FireWolf says:

    My understanding is that, outside Minnesota, nobody’s ever heard of Tim Pawlenty, and inside Minnesota, he’s not actually that popular.

    Jim,

    It’s not that Pawlenty isn’t popular here in Minnesota he’s not popular with the far left in Minnesota. Mostly that’s because he did support some of President Bush’s policy ideals about Iraq, etc but overall he has done a decent job governing Minnesota affairs. Of course, pundits from both sides would nitpick his accomplishments.

    Pawlenty, like Palin, are both great VP choices because they are largely political “unknowns”. The Dems don’t have a lot of information to go on so the national party would have to sit down with the local outfits in order to find stuff to whine about.

    That works both ways. :)

    I am still not voting for McCain even if he does have a smart woman VP candidate.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

  42. Hal says:

    You don’t have to play nice, you just have to play honorably.

    So, do you think McCain would enter Sarah Palin into the Buffalo Chips competition?

    I mean, seriously, Michael. I don’t know what’s dishonorable about pressing their point that they’re using to make a better point.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

  43. Hal says:

    Oh, I just heard there’s going to be Junior High School cheerleaders at the McCain rally announcing the choice.

    Creepy.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

  44. [...] since getting involved in a land war in Asia, John McCain has selected Alaska Governor Sarah Palin as his vice-President. You can read the official statement here. U.S. Senator John McCain today announced that he has [...]

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

  45. [...] James Joyner has a media round-up. [...]

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

  46. Fence says:

    I totally get picking a woman, but why not Hutchinson? Does Pallin have innate abilities that trump Hutchinson’s experience (which I raise since so many people seem to think resume counts for more than ability).

    One thing is clear, Obama can close up his hail mary Alaska campaign. This was actually shaping up to be a meltdown election for the Alaska GOP, but this surely changes that.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

  47. anjin-san says:

    If anything, I think Palin at least re-enforces the “Maverick” image

    By redoing something that Walter Mondale did 24 years ago?

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

  48. Jeffrey W. Baker says:

    Fence, I doubt that either side is sweating Alaska’s three whole electoral votes.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

  49. markm says:

    “A hotter–and probably a smarter–choice would have been Coulter.”

    Meh, if you are into long slanky…necks..smarter for who????.

    Obviously all the facts are not in on her but from what i’ve been reading she’s got a modest record of actually doing something. That’s refreshing.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

  50. sam says:

    I’m listening to her now, and this may be churlish, but that voice…

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

  51. DC Loser says:

    I’m watching her talk in Dayton. Palin is a TERRIBLE public speaker. She makes Bush look polished. Biden will clean her clock in a debate. Oh, she just touted her experience as the commander of the Alaska National Guard. Shades of Dan Quayle…..

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

  52. markm says:

    “I’m listening to her now, and this may be churlish, but that voice…”

    Same here sam…but i’ve managed to muster enough courage to listen to some monotone droning of Hillary’s…if Hillary’s bark didn’t bring her down I doubt it will be an issue.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

  53. Michael says:

    By redoing something that Walter Mondale did 24 years ago?

    No, I meant that she broke with established Alaska Republicans, not that picking her makes McCain more maverick-y.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

  54. rodney dill says:

    This pretty much complements McCain’s case that Obama is too inexperienced. You put the more experienced candidate in the top slot and the less experienced one in the position to gain experience. This is in contrast to what the Dems have done.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

  55. Paul Barnes says:

    I am surprised that no one has stated one of the obvious things to me: she is a darling of many Catholics.

    I mean, that seems to me an important voting block, and her bonafides with many Catholics is strong. While attempting to wrestle the woman vote from the Democrats might be a reason, I think that the whole Catholic angle is the bigger one.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

  56. rodney dill says:

    Shades of Dan Quayle…..

    Actually that’s Barack ’57 states’ Obama

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

  57. [...] Outside The Beltway, The Moderate Voice, Newshoggers.com, The Mahablog, Top of the Ticket, Washington Post, Weekly [...]

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

  58. [...] Outside the Beltway: Aside from being young and hot-for-a-politician, though, Palin undercuts McCain’s entire campaign [...]

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

  59. Fence says:

    Fence, I doubt that either side is sweating Alaska’s three whole electoral votes.

    I was mostly being sarcastic. But there was some indication that Obama would make some effort in AK because of the GOP scandals there. It was probably just a favor to the Congressional candidates.

    I’m not sure even Pallin can save Stevens, though.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

  60. markm says:

    “I’m not sure even Pallin can save Stevens, though.”

    I read somewhere earlier that he and she are at odds. That said, didn’t Stevens just win a primary?

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

  61. davod says:

    “I’m watching her talk in Dayton. Palin is a TERRIBLE public speaker. She makes Bush look polished. Biden will clean her clock in a debate. Oh, she just touted her experience as the commander of the Alaska National Guard. Shades of Dan Quayle…..”

    I listened to her and did not think anything she said was out of place.

    Judging by the silly comments there must be a few of you feeling a litttle emasculated.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

  62. Michael says:

    I read somewhere earlier that he and she are at odds.

    Wasn’t Stevens’ son one of the state legislators involved in corruption charges? I wonder if the ethics reforms Palin supported played a part in either Stevens’ legal trouble.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

  63. Anderson says:

    It worked for Mondale — it’ll work for McCain!

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

  64. Dantheman says:

    She does have foreigh policy experience — after all Alaska is right next to Russia (or so says one of Fox News’s goofier fluffers).

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

  65. Fence says:

    It doesn’t matter if Pallin and Stevens like each other, that wasn’t my point. It will help everyone on the GOP Alaska ballot because turnout will be way up.

    Anyway, back to the main issue. Both campaigns make very, very odd choices that undermine their main argument against the other candidate. (judgment on Iraq, and experience).

    At least Pallin probably knows how many igloos she owns. ;-)

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

  66. Bithead says:

    I would think McCain’s vetting people would have given that due consideration. Obviously they think it won’t be a big issue, or at least not as bad as what the alternatives would bring.

    Perhaps they remember ‘travelgate’, and perhaps they remember the glossing over they gave Eliot Spitzer on misuse of state troopers, too? Gonna be hard to sell this thing as anything approaching large, given those situations.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

  67. Wayne says:

    “The Democrats won’t be whining about her not having enough experience”

    Sorry Michael. I don’t mean to pick on you. You do seem to be a reasonable person on your side. However the Obama campaign just released a statement saying that she is not qualify to be a heartbeat away from the Presidency since she has very little foreign experience. Can’t say I totally disagree with that but a VP usually can use that slot to gain experience. The “usually” part is of some concern to me. However for Obama Campaign to say that considering their “President” candidate foreign experience is asinine. Obama won’t be a heartbeat away he will be the President.

    I will say that I consider both candidates VP selection as undercutting their respective arguments.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

  68. Michael says:

    Anyway, back to the main issue. Both campaigns make very, very odd choices that undermine their main argument against the other candidate. (judgment on Iraq, and experience).

    I don’t think Biden undermines Obama’s line of attack on Iraq.

    Sorry Michael. I don’t mean to pick on you. You do seem to be a reasonable person on your side. However the Obama campaign just released a statement saying that she is not qualify to be a heartbeat away from the Presidency since she has very little foreign experience.

    Yeah, well, my party does tend to disappoint me on a fairly regular basis.

    Can’t say I totally disagree with that but a VP usually can use that slot to gain experience. The “usually” part is of some concern to me.

    It definitely depends on who’s staying in the US Naval Observatory. To her credit, I think Palin would be an involved VP. Not as much as Cheney, certainly, but easily more than Quayle. Her experience isn’t of much concern to be, but then again I don’t think McCain will be dead in 4 years either.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

  69. markm says:

    “However the Obama campaign just released a statement saying that she is not qualify to be a heartbeat away from the Presidency”

    “Democrats stuffed a young heartbeat directly between experience and the presidency”

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

  70. bains says:

    Sorry James, but executive experience is fungible.

    Sarah Palin has been Mayor, and is a Governor. That is more executive experience than both Obama and Biden combined. Her state is surrounded by foreign countries and cradles some of the richest international harvestable seas. Ipso facto, she has more foeign policy experience than does Obama, and possibly more tangible experience than Biden. Gov. Palin does not undercut the experience argument, she accentuates it.

    I do find it interesting that while most on the right like the choice, the squishy right, and the left find McCain’s choice of Governor Palin as VP candidate objectionable.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

  71. Michael says:

    Ipso facto, she has more foeign policy experience than does Obama, and possibly more tangible experience than Biden. Gov. Palin does not undercut the experience argument, she accentuates it.

    Only for people who care about politics. For the majority of the voting population, she’s just a 2 year old governor from a far away state that rarely gets anybody’s attention.

    McCain is now going to be tasked with explaining to those people how being mayor and governor in Alaska gives relevant experience while being a state and federal legislator doesn’t. Even if it’s true, it’s not an easy or desirable task. He’s basically going to have to teach political science to millions of Americans who don’t want to learn about it.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

  72. fredw says:

    Has anyone mentioned that this small town mayor ( Ventura county california where I live has more population, so it is more like electing a county supervisor VP ) has a budget balanced by a tax on oil companies ( they call it royalties ) so she really has little experience with real world economic concerns. Managing California’s budget ( or lack of one ) is experience, Alsaka is balancing your checkbook.

    And this is the person one heatbeat away from the president. Will she be ready to lead on the first day as she may be called to do? This looks exactly like the plot for that Geena Davis TV show “Commander and Chief”

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

  73. Rick Almeida says:

    I do find it interesting that while most on the right like the choice, the squishy right, and the left find McCain’s choice of Governor Palin as VP candidate objectionable.

    That sounds like bad news, since the winning candidate will need both their party’s leaners and a chunk of independents to win the presidency.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

  74. fredw says:

    OK, so I think this is a weak choice, but I never heard her speak before the acceptance speech today, and I am not sure why some people criticize her public speaking. I thought she did an excelent job today. She is nothing like Bush as a speaker; she at least sounds sober.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

  75. Fence says:

    Sorry James, but executive experience is fungible.

    Yeah, remind me next time I owe you $20 to pay you in Zimbabwe dollars.

    Frankly, I’m probably more impressed with the “executive experience” of being a mother of 5, if she did it without lots of paid help.

    The notion that passing time in an elected executive branch post somehow makes one more qualified to be President than supremely talented people who did other things with their lives is just baloney. George Bush was Governor of Texas for 6 years followed by nearly 8 years as President. If “executive experience” made one a good President, wouldn’t he actually be good at it by now?

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

  76. Michael says:

    executive experience is fungible.

    So one year as mayor of a town of 300 people is equal to one year as President of the United States? Or maybe you’re using “fungible” in some way I’m not familiar with.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

  77. Wayne says:

    She is Alaska’s Governor. I suspect Alaska’s budget is larger than Arkansas. In addition she had to deal with Canada and Japan on a regular bases.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

  78. bains says:

    And this is the person one heatbeat away from the president. Will she be ready to lead on the first day as she may be called to do?

    And yet, the top of the Dem ticket has even less real world experience. What a great argument for Barack!

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

  79. sam says:

    And yet, the top of the Dem ticket has even less real world experience.

    Silly remark.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

  80. Eric says:

    I’ve never understood the conservative obsession with “executive experience,” like that is the only thing that matters, or the most important thing. I mean, on their logic, Lincoln should have never been President because, y’know, he didn’t have executive experience.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

  81. angellight says:

    McCain’s pick of Palin, a woman with very little executive experience, a woman who has approved a 26 billion dollar oil pipeline to Canada instead of the United States shows that McCain’s decision was made from an adlolescent place of “I’ll show you mentallity” instead of one of wisdom and judgment and will be a disaster because this is not a game but serious, deadly business! Maybe McCain really is senile and confused and incapable of making sound judgments. This woman will be a heartbeat away from being in charge of the highest office in the land. If she was Qualified, that would be different but she is not and that is the bottom line. Not to mention that his argument that Barack has no experience And Is not Ready is out the door, his strongest argument against Barack.

    Is this decision Historic or Hysterical or a mockery to our political system? A game changer or a roll of the dice? And should a Presidential candidate play russian roulette with the people’s business? It is sort of sad to me personally, that McCain with all the problems we face here, did not have the People’s interest at heart but rather a desire to win for winning’s sake and did not think of the consequences of his actions and what it would mean for this country if she had to be sworn in as President of the United States!
    Ironically, the very things he belittled Barack on — empty suit, no experience — he got in his own V.P. Pick, Sarah Palin!

    However, in this evil ploy to pull Hillary women from Barack with no consideration as to whether or not this woman has the ability and experience to lead the United States here and on a world scale shows a very adolescent way of thinking, and a lack of sound judgment and as McCain’s first executive decision, a disaster! Through this pick, McCain has just shown that he is NOT READY TO LEAD, and it also proves that he is not really serious about solving America’s problems!

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

  82. Fred says:

    The pick of Gov. Palin shows McCain lacks judgment and seriousness. Is Gov. Palin the most qualified person he could come up with? Or did he do it for political reasons?

    Check out this story on Gov. Palin and trooper-gate which aired just this week, in Alaska. Wow, McCain’s staff did a heck of a job vetting Palin.

    McCain gives Democrats a huge birthday gift.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6UojMnCgqVA

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

  83. sam says:

    BTW, I can’t find anything on the web, but does anyone know if Sarah Palin has ever travelled to Europe or Asia or anywhere outside the US? (Canada doesn’t count.)

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

  84. Spoker says:

    Dear Liberal Intelligencia,
    Please! Please!! Please!!! As a voter in flyover country where we have been forced to fend for ourselves and take care of our own with what we could afford to give in taxes from ourselves and our neighbors and the little we get back from our federal taxes; where we get up in the morning go to work, come home in the evening and raise our families; where we actively participate in our schools, local governments, and state governments in spite of the road blocks thrown up by the Washington regulators and money spenders, and where we maintain a fervent belief in hope, optimism, faith, and the American Dream regardless of how many times, and in how many ways we are told we are too selfish, ignorant, and unimportant to know what is best for us. Please !!!! Make this election about the unsuitability of mayors and governors to hold high office. Because that will make this election about telling us, we are not fit, qualified, educated or experienced enough to govern ourselves. And that is an election we will not allow you to win!

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

  85. sam says:

    @Wayne:

    She is Alaska’s Governor. I suspect Alaska’s budget is larger than Arkansas.

    Fun Alaska Facts (from Matt Yglesias):

    The following cities have larger populations than the state of Alaska:

    — New York, NY

    — Los Angeles, CA

    — Chicago, IL

    — Houston, TX

    — Phoenix, AZ

    — Philadelphia, PA

    — San Antonio, TX

    — San Diego, CA

    — Dallas, TX

    — San Jose, CA

    — Detroit, MI

    — Jacksonville, FL

    — Indianapolis, IN

    — San Francisco, CA

    — Columbus, OH

    — Austin, TX

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

  86. DL says:

    My bumper sticker will read “I’m voting for Palin and the RINO”

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

  87. Anderson says:

    Executive experience:

    Cheney had it;

    Rumsfeld had it;

    Dubya had it.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

  88. [...] Points Memo, Think Progress, The Mahablog, Hot Air, Top of the Ticket, Weekly Standard Blog, Outside The Beltway, Washington Post, BlogHer, Firedoglake, Don Surber, Feministing, The Strata-Sphere, On Deadline, [...]

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

  89. bains says:

    Again, I find it most interesting that it is primarily Obama supporters that are most upset by the Palin nod. Contrast that with the right being delighted by Obama picking Biden.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

  90. Wayne says:

    sam
    Mayors from some of those cities have run for President and were deem by many to be qualify because of their executive experience of running a major city. So what’s your point? The land mass of Alaska is by far the largest of any U.S. State and larger than many countries. Alaskan economy is larger than many countries. I’m sure you felt Bill Clinton was qualified even though he governed only a small state. Would I like to see someone with more experience? Yes but after all it is the VP slot not the President slot.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

  91. Wayne says:

    By the way my first choice would have been Governor Haley Barbour from Mississippi.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

  92. Hal says:

    primarily Obama supporters that are most upset by the Palin nod.

    Um, bains? Define “upset”. I don’t think “upset” is the right characterization. They’re questioning it, they’re delighted that it completely neutralizes McCain’s experience argument, etc. Where’s the “upset”? I mean, are people on the left angry about it? Of course not.

    Contrast that with the right being delighted by Obama picking Biden.

    Well, it seems to be a Rove tactic that they love to play where they think they ooze confidence by loving something. Seems to me, though, that they’ve been doing the same thing the left has been doing to Palin – i.e. questioning the choice, using the choice to say something about the candidate, etc.

    I mean, really bain. Left “upset” by Palin? Please.

    I can find a lot of quotes on the right questioning the pick ranging from head scratching to outright disbelief. I think that’s a little bit more relevant than how the democrats “feel” about the choice.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

  93. Hal says:

    Yes but after all it is the VP slot not the President slot.

    For a 72 year old cancer survivor.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

  94. anjin-san says:

    Both sides can spin till the cows come home. Bottom line is that this is a Hail Mary, and that is not a play you call from a position of strength.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

  95. rodney dill says:

    I’m amused by the spinning and thrashing about of the moonbats that this is not a strong candidate.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

  96. Hal says:

    Really, Dill, what did you expect? Or do you think that the spinning and thrashing was something relegated to the right over the choice of Biden?

    Of course the left is going to pounce on the choice and portray her as a week candidate. I mean, did you just start following politics?

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

  97. rodney dill says:

    I said I was amused by it, not surprised by it, Hal.
    You must’ve misinterpreted what was easily evident. Hmmm… I wonder how often that happens.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

  98. Hal says:

    hahahaha good to see you still have stiletto out. Pretty sure you never miss a chance for that.

    In any event, amused… Great. We’re all amused. It’s fun. It’s politics. It’s life.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

  99. Davebo says:

    Don’t forget her experience consists of being governor of America’s number 1 welfare state.

    Most federal dollars per capita of all states and no where near what they pay in.

    The ultimate sweetheart deal on mineral royalties from federal lands. Alaska get’s 90% while all other states get 50%.

    And she’s already hinted she’ll use the job to gather even more wilderness welfare.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

  100. Wayne says:

    “For a 72 year old cancer survivor.”

    Yes there are many that are concern with that. However, McCain does appear vibrant and is likely able to fulfill his term. At the minimum he will last at least two years which would give a smart VP enough time to gain experience to take over.

    Again Palin wouldn’t have been my first choice. However, all the gals (Dems and Reps) that I have talk to seem giddy about the selection. Granted it is a limited sampling but surprises me nothing the less. Only time will tell. Personally I don’t pay attention to a person’s sex or race when voting but some do.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

  101. I’ve Never Been Happier in My Life To Be Wrong! …

    McCain’s pick for VP is actually Governor Palin. That would be Sarah Palin of: • executive experience (however brief); • youth and energy to balance McCain’s age; • first-hand knowledge of the importance of developing more domestic ene…

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

  102. rodney dill says:

    hahahaha good to see you still have stiletto out.

    Wouldn’t be any fun to have a battle of wits with someone who was unarmed.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

  103. anjin-san says:

    However, McCain does appear vibrant and is likely able to fulfill his term.

    I wish John McCain a long life and good health. But this is a real concern. We are talking about the toughest job in the world, and the fact that he “appears vibrant” means nothing.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

  104. Hal says:

    Wouldn’t be any fun to have a battle of wits with someone who was unarmed.

    Touché

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

  105. Hal says:

    However, McCain does appear vibrant and is likely able to fulfill his term.

    Two words: “Black Swan”.

    seem giddy about the selection.

    Well, if nothing else we’ll have an historic election – one way or the other. A woman VP or a black president.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

  106. Jeffrey W. Baker says:

    Half of you guys are among the stupidest people I have ever had the displeasure of encountering. No, Alaska does not have a gross product that rivals important countries. In fact, it’s gross state product of $40 billion ranks 45th of the 50 states, and among countries it would rank right along with Estonia. California’s economy, for those looking for facts, is 350 times bigger.

    And no, Alaska’s state budget is not bigger than the budget of Arkansas. Alaska’s annual budget is $2.9 billion in 2008. Arkansas’ budget is $14.9 billion, five times larger.

    I swear, some of you wingers are completely resistant to reality.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

  107. Lu says:

    A Harriet Meyers debacle in the making. How much LESS competent could the choice for VP candidate have been? Do you really think that a VP candidate whose foreign policy experience is limited to waving goodbye to her son on his way to Iraq is going to inspire confidence when we are at war? Has she even been out of the country (or to the lower 48)? Hockey moms must be tougher than I thought. Please, don’t talk about “less experienced” – use the phrase “completely lacking in experience” – it is closer to the truth. As for Hillary supporters being wooed, that is just insulting to compare Palin with Senator Clinton and by extension insulting to Clinton’s supporters.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

  108. Wayne says:

    “Has she even been out of the country (or to the lower 48)?”

    She visited Kuwait and injured troops in Germany. I’m sure we will find out what other travel she has done. She has at least balance a budget in government and in business which Obama hasn’t. So if you are saying she is not qualified to be VP, then Obama is surely not qualified to be President.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

  109. bains says:

    Um, bains? Define “upset”.

    Fair point, Hal. The left is not upset, but I’d say that the Palin choice worries the left, and hence all the scrutiny. Scrutiny, I’d add that they are actively seeking to stifle when directed at Obama.

    Again, Sarah Palin has executive experience and she is going to be the Vice Presidential candidate – Barack Obama has no executive experience and he is the Presidential candidate. The left wants to have the experience debate negated, but with Gov Palin on the ticket, McCain brings it to the fore.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

  110. bains says:

    Both sides can spin till the cows come home. Bottom line is that this is a Hail Mary, and that is not a play you call from a position of strength.

    Replete with irony, anjin-san.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

  111. Hal says:

    hence all the scrutiny. Scrutiny, I’d add that they are actively seeking to stifle when directed at Obama.

    It would literally be negligent for *either* campaign – and associated hordes – to not scrutinize the other’s choice. I mean, really… Do you just expect either campaign to sit idly by, give a golf clap and then go about their other work? Of course not. The choice of a VP is a big event that is a golden opportunity for attack. They’d be stupid not to scrutinize…

    And of course both sides are going to defend their candidate’s choice for VP. Again, believing that this is some sign of weakness, fear or nervousness seems rather naive.

    but with Gov Palin on the ticket, McCain brings it to the fore.

    Well, that’s your opinion… Good propaganda job and just what I’d expect someone on the right to say.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

  112. Bithead says:

    Well, that’s your opinion… Good propaganda job and just what I’d expect someone on the right to say.

    Well, it’s fact, Hal, as evidenced by how quickly the Obama people backed off this ‘she’s inexperienced’ argument. It’s a measure of how desperate they are to have even tried it. The fact is, she’s got more executive experience than Obama and Biden combined.

    And by the way; Have you guys seen this?

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

  113. Hal says:

    Bit, your welcome to call them facts if it makes you feel good.

    And any forum in the Right Wing News blog is just a fly trap. Still, glad to see you providing an actual link instead of cryptically phrased search terms and the challenge to find it ourselves.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

  114. Bithead says:

    And any forum in the Right Wing News blog is just a fly trap.

    You’d better look again, Hal. He linked the Hillary Clinton forum, which he just found out about, apparently, today, by way of a link from a secon site.

    Obama’s camp started the put-downs before they actually understood what they were up against, today. You’re apparently dealing with the same problem in your own right.

    And Hal? I provide links when I feel they’re needed. That’s my choice, not yours.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

  115. bains says:

    Well, that’s your opinion…

    yeah…

    Good propaganda job and just what I’d expect someone on the right to say.

    I thought you just said it was my opinion.
    I suspect that when the comparisons are drawn in the realm of experience though, it will be McCain against Biden, Obama against Palin. And as much as the MSM will try to avoid, just who is at the top of the ticket will leak out.

    As to my support for Sarah Palin, David Harsanyi explains why this “righty” is so ecstatic.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

  116. Hal says:

    never questioned your right to be a dick, Dr. B. – only the wisdom of such a decision. But by all means, continue to proudly defend your decision to be a dick.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

  117. anjin-san says:

    Well Bit, I am sure we are all impressed by how busy Rush’s trolls are on the Hillary forum.

    Florida Dawn: McCain has picked PALIN!!! I am THRILLED! AS for the Dums whining that she doens’t have experience running thing

    I am rotatively sure that Hillary supporters do not refer to the Democratic party as “Dums”. (neither for that matter do Republicans with an IQ above 90)

    Does the GOP really think that nominating a woman who does not think women have the right to control what happens to their own bodies helps them with Hillary supporters?

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

  118. Billy says:

    The fact is, she’s got more executive experience than Obama and Biden combined.

    I’ll just lay it out there, she’s got more executive experience than Obama, Biden, and McCain combined.

    But then, I was Vice President of my high school student counsel, so, but for Obama’s term as President of the Harvard Law Review, I could make the same claim.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

  119. bains says:

    To draw a finer point Hal, every time the MSM tries to attack Palin’s lack of experience, all McCain has to do is point to Obama. Again, who is at the top of each ticket.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

  120. physics geek says:

    How much LESS competent could the choice for VP candidate have been?

    How much LESS competent could the choice for Democratic Presidential candidate have been?

    There. Fixed it for you.

    Obama spent about 150 days as a US Senator before beginning his 2 year campaign for president. Somehow, that qualifies him to be at the top of the ticket, but Palin’s 2 years as governor obviously disqualifies her from being at the bottom of the ticket. Right.

    Listen: Palin brings some negatives to the tickets. But if you Obama supporters want to keep harping on the lack of experience one heartbeat from the presidency, the rest of the country might notice the complete lack of experience in line to BE president.

    Forget that. Keep attacking in exactly that same vein. I look forward to seeing how that plays outside of the Kos forums.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

  121. Bithead says:

    Well Bit, I am sure we are all impressed by how busy Rush’s trolls are on the Hillary forum.

    Clearly, you’ve not done much homework, Hal.
    Big shock to most, I’m sure.
    Anwyay, the site last I knew required pre-registration.

    Do try again.

    I am rotatively sure that Hillary supporters do not refer to the Democratic party as “Dums”.

    You’re apparently unaware of how many people are really angry over the way Clinton was treated in the party, and have turned their back on the party over it. Fine. Sobeit.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

  122. Michael says:

    The left is not upset, but I’d say that the Palin choice worries the left, and hence all the scrutiny.

    We’re not so much worried as we are disappointed. I mean, we were so looking forward to mocking Romney for the next 2 months, and then McCain has to go and ruin everything.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

  123. Michael says:

    You’re apparently unaware of how many people are really angry over the way Clinton was treated in the party, and have turned their back on the party over it. Fine. Sobeit.

    I wonder if you too might be unaware of how many people are really that angry over Clinton losing the nomination and the VP slot. The media likes to cover controversy, especially a “divided” democratic party, well beyond the point of reality. If I were McCain, I wouldn’t put too much dependence on any large amount of disgruntled Hillary supporters. If that potential was the factor that put Palin over the top, I think it was a bad idea.

    That being said, Palin was among the better choices, I think. Certainly a Romney or Lieberman would have ultimately doomed his campaign. I’m not real familiar with Pawlenty or some of the other alternatives, but Palin doesn’t seem that bad. Sure she makes the “he’s inexperienced” line more difficult, but I’ve always thought it was a bad idea for McCain to go that route anyway, so if this forces him onto a better narrative, it’s a plus for his campaign.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

  124. John Burgess says:

    I’ve voted Republican since the first time I could vote. This choice makes me very happy to be a Republican. It also convinces me that McCain will be the next President.

    McCain’s choice also won me a $500 bet, but that’s beside the point.

    This is a stellar choice.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

  125. Dantheman says:

    The Washington Post gets the exclusive interview on Palin’s attempts to get her former brother in law fired, and how she fired the Public Safety Commissioner who wouldn’t play ball. Shall we start a betting line on when she will withdraw her name from the ticket??

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

  126. Michael says:

    The Washington Post gets the exclusive interview on Palin’s attempts to get her former brother in law fired, and how she fired the Public Safety Commissioner who wouldn’t play ball. Shall we start a betting line on when she will withdraw her name from the ticket??

    Nov. 5th.

    Seriously, the “victim” here isn’t going to get sympathy from anybody, he deserves more than just being fired. This story had legs, but no traction. It’s going nowhere.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

  127. Bithead says:

    I wonder if you too might be unaware of how many people are really that angry over Clinton losing the nomination and the VP slot.

    Oh, about 30% of her supporters, last polling data I saw. That’s 30% saying they’re not going to vote for Obama, period. Let’s break that down, just to put some perspective around it.

    Let’s assume for the sake of round numbers, that the Obama/Clinton matchup was 50/50. (Granted, it tilted a few points to Obama, but stay with me here.)

    That means tha 15% of Democrats will not be voting for Obama.

    Now, that doesn’t sound like much until you recognize that the difference in the last several elections has been pretty much 50/50, too. Think 10% will make a difference?

    Now, since these polls were done before Palin was chosen, let’s add to that, Palin.

    DO we have any reason to think the Democrats are not in serious trouble with this one?

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

  128. Bithead says:

    oops…/10/15/

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

  129. anjin-san says:

    You’re apparently unaware of how many people are really angry over the way Clinton was treated in the party, and have turned their back on the party over it. Fine. Sobeit

    I am fairly sure I have a better grasp of what goes on in the Democratic party than you do. Obama may well be a clothespin vote for many Hillary supporters, just as Kerry was for me on ’04, but I suspect they will bite the bullet and vote for a Democrat, even one they do not care for.

    But if you want to quote a few polls and base you hopes on that, go for it. Because we all know how very reliable polls are.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

  130. Bithead says:

    I am fairly sure I have a better grasp of what goes on in the Democratic party than you do.

    I doubt it… To the point of wondering just what it is you ARE grasping.

    I suspect they will bite the bullet and vote for a Democrat, even one they do not care for.

    Again, I doubt it. If that were the case, we’d be hearing a lot more getting on the ‘unity’ bandwagon.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

  131. Beldar says:

    You’re too morbid, Dr. Joyner. The Veep should be someone other than a clone standing by to step into McCain’s shoes if he croaks.

    You give zero value to having a complemantary running mate who brings strengths in areas where McCain is weak.

    This is in no way contrary to McCain’s prior campaign themes, which are about McCain’s experience. His ticket now offers both breadth and depth of experience. The Democratic ticket does not.

    You’re more of a grumpy old man than McCain today! Open your mind, sir. And learn more before you condemn.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

  132. anjin-san says:

    I doubt it… To the point of wondering just what it is you ARE grasping.

    Well, you are free to doubt away. But then you thing pre-registration on a blog prevent trolling. What color cheese did you say the moon is made of?

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

  133. anjin-san says:

    One thing that jumps out at me after doing a bit of reading is that McCain has picked someone he does not know to be a heartbeat away from the Presidency.

    Think on this for a while and reflect on what it tells us about McCain’s judgment.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

  134. anjin-san says:

    An interesting personal sidebar about Palin is that she bears a strong resemblance to my wife…

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

  135. Spoker says:

    Well, after watching 12 hours of the Dem’s gnashing their teeth and whining about experience and the Repubs glowing endorsements and talking about real reformers, McCain’s choice of Sarah Palin looks like he has hit a home run. Otherwise the liberals would be congratulating & celebrating and the and the conservatives would be ducking for cover & looking for a 3rd party. Sorry St. Obama, looks like you have a horse race on your hands, not an anointment.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

  136. Michael says:

    That means tha 15% of Democrats will not be voting for Obama.

    Now, that doesn’t sound like much until you recognize that the difference in the last several elections has been pretty much 50/50, too. Think 10% will make a difference?

    That only works if the President is elected by national popular vote. However, give out current system, that percentage can either make a much larger difference, or no difference at all, depending on the states. I haven’t seen anybody do an analysis of the polls showing which states have enough PUMAs to swing the state away from Obama.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

  137. [...] read my previous commentary on Sarah Palin, notably yesterday’s post on the announcement of Palin as McCain’s VP pick, know that I think she’s a poor choice.  While she has many fans and may be possessed of [...]

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

  138. rodney dill says:

    An interesting personal sidebar about Palin is that she bears a strong resemblance to my wife…

    So? …Joe Biden resembles mine.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

  139. Michael says:

    So? …Joe Biden resembles mine.

    Oh, this is going to be an amusing election at least.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

  140. Bithead says:

    That only works if the President is elected by national popular vote. However, give out current system, that percentage can either make a much larger difference, or no difference at all, depending on the states.

    Quite correct. However, given the concentration of Democrats on both coasts, I suspect the effect will be a larger one than the raw percentages suggest.

    I haven’t seen anybody do an analysis of the polls showing which states have enough PUMAs to swing the state away from Obama.

    (Shrug) Too soon for that, given the Palin dynamic was added mere hours ago. I suspect, though, the RNC has their own internal numbers, else they’d not have gone in that direction.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

  141. Bithead says:

    But then you thing pre-registration on a blog prevent trolling. What color cheese did you say the moon is made of?

    I await your evidence that the place was hacked by ‘Rushbots’, and that what we see over there isn’t genuine. Lacking such, you’re simply whistling in the dark.

    And that’s being kind.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

  142. anjin-san says:

    All you need is eyes and a working brain Bit. If you want a decent sample of what Hillary Democrats are thinking, go to Talk Left.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

  143. Hal says:

    Bit, I know you’re a cranky old man with failing facilities, but for the eleventy millionth time, could you at least read who the comment was from instead of attributing it to me?

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

  144. Hal says:

    Via Steve Benen, some reviews on Palin from those on the Right:

    * Charles Krauthammer: “The Palin selection completely undercuts the argument about Obama’s inexperience and readiness to lead…. To gratuitously undercut the remarkably successful ‘Is he ready to lead’ line of attack seems near suicidal.”

    * Noah Millman, presenting a defense for Palin: “I realize, of course, that she’s totally unqualified to be President at this point in time. If McCain were to die in February 2009, I hope Palin would have the good sense to appoint someone who is more ready to be President to be her Vice President, on the understanding that she would then resign and be appointed Vice President by her successor.”

    * Ramesh Ponnuru called it “tokenism,” adding, “Can anyone say with a straight face that Palin would have gotten picked if she were a man?”

    * David Frum: “The longer I think about it, the less well this selection sits with me. And I increasingly doubt that it will prove good politics. The Palin choice looks cynical…. It’s a wild gamble, undertaken by our oldest ever first-time candidate for president in hopes of changing the board of this election campaign. Maybe it will work. But maybe (and at least as likely) it will reinforce a theme that I’d be pounding home if I were the Obama campaign: that it’s John McCain for all his white hair who represents the risky choice, while it is Barack Obama who offers cautious, steady, predictable governance…. If it were your decision, and you were putting your country first, would you put an untested small-town mayor a heartbeat away from the presidency?”

    * Kathryn Jean Lopez: “As much as I loathe Obama-Biden, I can’t in good conscience vote for a McCain-Palin ticket. Palin has absolutely no experience in foreign affairs. Considering both McCain’s advanced age and the state of the world today, it is essential that the veep be exceedingly qualified to assume the office of president. I simply don’t have any confidence in Palin’s ability to deal effectively with Iran, Russia, China, etc.”

    * Mark Halperin: “On the face of it, McCain has failed the ultimate test that any presidential candidate must face in picking a running mate: selecting someone who is unambiguously qualified to be president.”

    Good times.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

  145. bains says:

    You know Hal, you (and Steve Benen) probably ought to read the the articles linked to before submitting them as proof. Millman, Ponnuru and Halprin offer analysis of both good and bad. Steve cherry picks only the bad aspects. Millman actually ends with this:

    She’s an excellent choice. If McCain wins, he’ll have a whole cabinet of officials to help him run the government and advise him on vital decisions. That’s not what he’ll be using Palin for. And as a political matter, if the Democrats lead with the inexperience argument against Palin, they’ll be committing suicide.

    As for Lopez, she is republishing an email, not voicing here opinion (Even Benen is forced to admit this.)

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

  146. Hal says:

    bains, I think you’re missing the point. First, it’s no duh that they have both good and bad in their analysis. Second, of course we’re going to pull out the bad. You’re right about Lopez. My bad, as well.

    But with respect to Millman, that argument is downright silly as the whole point of the VP is someone who can take over – on day one – for the President if he kicks the bucket. Admitting that she’ll have to have on the job training under a 72 year old cancer survivor, stepping into a term with already 2 wars raging and a number of other crisis on the verge of cresting is quite amazing.

    Again, it’s rather telling that Obama picks a VP to help him as President and McCain makes a purely political choice that tries to play identity politics (I thought the right hated that) and isn’t the person he would have chosen if he didn’t have to pacify his base.

    Some judgment.

    But it’s a classic example of the kind we’ve come to expect from the Republicans after the last eight years.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

  147. bains says:

    Again, it’s rather telling that Obama picks a VP to help him as President and McCain makes a purely political choice that tries to play identity politics…

    No, what is telling is that you, someone already predisposed to vote for Obama (against McCain) is struggling mightly to tell me someone who is predisposed to vote against Obama (reluctantly for McCain) that I should be troubled by McCain’s choice. Yet I am tickled pink. While I caucused for Romney, I have long thought Palin was the right, the best choice for McCain.

    Identity politics? Oh please! There is no person from the GOP stable that carries as inspirational upside without an internecine downside. As I said, I was/am a Romney guy (NW Colorado – I saw what he did for the SLC games) but the primaries showed that there still exists anti-Mormon bigotry throughout this country. Huckabee would have taken his ball and gone home. Similarly, a Huckabee would have splintered off another segment of the base. I was resigned to hoping for Pawlenty, but he is store-brand vanilla.

    …and isn’t the person he would have chosen if he didn’t have to pacify his base.

    Pacify? Without his “base” he doesn’t get elected.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

  148. Hal says:

    yet I am tickled pink

    No doubt. you think you have a chestnut and it’s going to take you into the promised land. Good luck with that.

    Identity politics? Oh please!

    Um, anyone who thinks disaffected Hillary supporters are going to vote for McCain simply because he picked a female VP is playing identity politics.

    Pacify? Without his “base” he doesn’t get elected.

    Precisely. Which means he couldn’t do what he wanted to do but what he had to do politically. Necessary? Sure. But not the move of a maverick; someone who’s bucking their party. Rather, it’s a choice to buck up his conservative creds – well, as best he can – with social conservatives.

    Myself, I’m just going to wait and see what things look like after the dust has settled down. In the mean time, bains, enjoy 6 things the Palin pick says about McCain. I particularly liked #1

    1. He’s desperate. Let’s stop pretending this race is as close as national polling suggests. The truth is McCain is essentially tied or trailing in every swing state that matters — and too close for comfort in several states like Indiana and Montana the GOP usually wins pretty easily in presidential races. On top of that, voters seem very inclined to elect Democrats in general this election — and very sick of the Bush years.

    McCain could easily lose in an electoral landslide. That is the private view of Democrats and Republicans alike.

    McCain’s pick shows he is not pretending. Politicians, even “mavericks” like McCain, play it safe when they think they are winning — or see an easy path to winning. They roll the dice only when they know that the risks of conventionality are greater than the risks of boldness.

    But hey, keep the rose colored glasses super glued on. I like to have my opponents clueless and confident right up to the end.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

  149. bains says:

    And Hal read this post by Violet.
    Then scroll down to comment #58 in which Bill Whittle explains why so many of us are excited.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

  150. bains says:

    Already read that Politico article – found it mostly facile.

    Two other points Hal, can you offer anything other than pundit speculation that McCain really wanted to nominate anyone else? Let us see where the polling goes and then we can determine whether, as I suspect, the Palin nod will help, or as you are convinced, the Palin nod will hurt.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

  151. bains says:

    Sen. John McCain has taken in $7 million in contributions since announcing Gov. Sarah Palin as his running mate…

    Seems some are already voicing their opinion.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

  152. Hal says:

    Dude, you bring up a blog post by a PUMA. Gee, had to stretch there. Must be a trend! And even better, it underscores my point on identity politics.

    I have no idea why Bill Whittles comment floats your boat. Really. But it does underscore the fact that the choice was a base appeaser. Bravo!

    Seems some are already voicing their opinion.

    Keep up the comedy. Obama pulled more than that in on one night alone. Last month’s tally was more than double of McCain’s haul and I suspect it will continue to be such – but who knows. In any event, if you want to start measuring politics by size, you’ve undoubtedly chosen the wrong metric.

    found it mostly facile.

    Of course! I would expect no less.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

  153. rodney dill says:

    No doubt. you think you have a chestnut and it’s going to take you into the promised land. Good luck with that.

    Ha. …and you’ll have to let us know how Obama works out as that for you.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

  154. Hal says:

    and you’ll have to let us know how Obama works out as that for you.

    Well, let’s see. Young, charismatic, confident, able to draw huge crowds, inspires his party, rakes in stunning amounts of cash from millions of small donors, and – of course the most important measure – he’s been running consistently ahead of McCain in the polls.

    You just got Mr. Green Screen, who can’t even fire up his own base, has a way creepy forced smile, is 72 million years old, has Karl Rove’s campaign team, is running for the party with the worst branding in history, chose a VP to satisfy his base and is running anemic as far as cash is concerned.

    It’s going to be a tough race, still, but I’m pretty happy with my choice. The only thing y’all got in your column is anti-Obama. You’re not voting for McCain, you’re voting against Obama.

    Negativity, character assassination and cheap shots are all you have in your quiver, Dill. Wonder if that’s going to be enough.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

  155. Floyd says:

    “rakes in stunning amounts of cash from millions of small donors”….
    “”"”"”"”"”"”"”"”"”"”"”"”"”"”"”"”"”"”"”"”"”"”"”"”"
    …at gun point, right after the election!

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

  156. Hal says:

    …at gun point, right after the election!

    Thanks for reminding me of the other arrow in the quiver I forgot about: Fear.

    Still, wonder how that’s going to work as well. It’s like the old POW bit. It loses a lot of its power the more it’s played.

    The grand old party isn’t grand any more. It’s simply old.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

  157. Bithead says:

    . He’s desperate

    Utter nonsense, Hal. Lieberman would ahve been the Hail Mary play. Palin is right up the middle.

    But please… do grace us with your humor… who would have been a better pick and why? Who wuld have reinforced MCCain’s message, who would have come without the baggage, who would have reached the base while doing it? Let’s hear it, Hal… who would your choice have been, hmmm?

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

  158. Bithead says:

    go to Talk Left.

    Did that. Talked to a couple offline, too. THey’re more worried now than they were last week.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

  159. anjin-san says:

    Lieberman would ahve been the Hail Mary play.

    Ummm. Lieberman was the pick McCain wanted to make. Everyone on the planet, including Lieberman, talked him out of it.

    THey’re more worried now than they were last week.

    Thats one thing you might take away. Another is that they feel much better about Obama then they did last week

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

  160. Hal says:

    who would have been a better pick and why?

    You really don’t know how the game is played, do you?

    Let’s hear it, Hal… who would your choice have been, hmmm?

    At the *very beginning* of this thread gave my choice: Lieberman. I’ve been praying to all I hold holy for weeks to have that geriatric duo to run against.

    But really Bit, why don’t you demand satisfaction from the authors of the Politico article I quoted instead of me? I mean, really. I know you’re decrepit, but you have to stop confusing me with things I link to or other commenters. It’s just creepy how you’re starting to ape your party’s ancient one.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

  161. davod says:

    Lieberman was a hawk on the war. For everything else he was left of center.

    Imagine having an unrepetent leftist a herarbeat away from a Republican president.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

  162. bains says:

    Negativity, character assassination and cheap shots are all you have in your quiver, Dill.

    Just a bit of projection there Hal? Seems to me most the character attacks, and cheap shots are coming from the left regarding the McCain/Palin ticket.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

  163. Rodney Dill says:

    Thanks bains, but I think I can handle this.

    Negativity, character assassination and cheap shots are all you have in your quiver, Dill.

    Omigod I seem to have inadvertantly picked up your quiver by mistake. Here, have some of your arrows back.

    Lucifer finally gets invited to a party in the primum mobile room in the silver city.

    In any event, the McCain/Palin ticket has the image of a rich old dude and his trophy wife.

    So, do you think McCain would enter Sarah Palin into the Buffalo Chips competition?

    Oh, I just heard there’s going to be Junior High School cheerleaders at the McCain rally announcing the choice. Creepy.

    And any forum in the Right Wing News blog is just a fly trap.

    never questioned your right to be a dick, Dr. B.

    You just got Mr. Green Screen, who can’t even fire up his own base, has a way creepy forced smile, is 72 million years old, has Karl Rove’s campaign team, is running for the party with the worst branding in history, chose a VP to satisfy his base and is running anemic as far as cash is concerned.

    Still, wonder how that’s going to work as well. It’s like the old POW bit. It loses a lot of its power the more it’s played.

    Perhaps it slipped your attention the extent that you were going to, to be a dick throughout the above thread. I hope it isn’t a sign you are losing you faculties (as opposed to facilities).

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

  164. Bithead says:

    mmm. Lieberman was the pick McCain wanted to make.

    And certainly would not have been a good pick, unless he was, say, 20 points begind. By definiton, Leiberman was a ‘hail mary play’. And I know you’re not going to like this, but the fact is you only run such plays out of desperation, a situation McCain is not in.

    At the *very beginning* of this thread gave my choice: Lieberman

    When given the choice, Hal leans left. I guess it makes sense that far. But why would you chose such? Because it would help McCain win? Or because it WOULDN’T? Gee, now there’s something to ponder.

    But really Bit, why don’t you demand satisfaction from the authors of the Politico article I quoted instead of me?

    They’re not here pitching the stuff at us. YOU are. Don’t try to hide from that one now.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

  165. Hal says:

    Oh, I’m not losing my facilities, but I think you might be. See, I was talking about the campaigns, not you personally. I can see how you get confused, seeing as how you weren’t really paying attention, but what the hey.

    Yes, I’m certainly having fun mocking Sarah Palin, but that’s just me. But it’s McCain’s campaign that I was referring to. Flattering as it is to have you single me out as the poster child for Obama, I think that’s probably a stretch for even Dr. B to swallow.

    One thing that is interesting is that you seem to think that my pointing out the negative aspects of McCain, right after I pointed out the positive aspects of Obama is an act of negativeness. Well, I guess on the right, where merely being in a state that’s close to Russia counts as foreign policy experience, I can be sympathetic to your confusion.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

  166. Hal says:

    Bit, it’s not even fun kicking you any more. You really are clueless, apparently.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

  167. Hal says:

    Ah, perhaps my point is missed on Dill, now that I re-read.

    The point, Dill, isn’t that there’s negativity or character assassination or fear on the democrat’s side. I mean, that’s just part and parcel of politics. And the point, likewise, isn’t that these exist on the republican side. My specific point to you was that on the one hand, Obama has a heck of a lot of positive qualities both personally and about his campaign and message. While McCain, on the other hand, has nothing but a distinct lack of charisma, a huge age issue, can’t inspire his troops, etc. And on the actual McCain campaign, as we’ve seen leading up to this point, has consisted of nothing but comparisons to Britney and Paris, Argula, etc. All character attacks, and fear. Nothing of substance.

    While I’m at it, it occurred to me how cynical bains and y’all are wrt Palin. As bains keeps pointing out, he just loves the democrats attacking Palin as unqualified as he believes that highlights even more the argument that Obama isn’t qualified to be president. But here’s the rub. If bains really actually did believe that, he’d be just as sure that Palin isn’t. Rather, what bains is all giggly about is about the political choice of Palin. He – apparently – doesn’t really care one whit about qualifications. It’s simply a political issue to use against Obama.

    That’s one cynical party you have there.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

  168. rodney dill says:

    Obama has a heck of a lot of positive qualities both personally and about his campaign and message. … Nothing of substance.

    I see that if I take out the cheap personal attacks against McCain from your paragraph, you finally make sense.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

  169. Hal says:

    the cheap personal attacks against McCain from your paragraph

    Cheap? Is he not old? Was the green screen speech not one of the most hideous on record? Did McCain not offer up Cindy in a topless talent contest with simulated fellatio? Did McCain not have junior high school cheerleaders at his rally?

    I mean, really Dill. Where’s the cheap shots there? I guess you’re going to tell me that I shouldn’t attack a POW or something, right?

    Geebus. I must say that I really won’t miss the faux surprise, crocodile tears and feinting spells. It’s one of the most annoying ticks of the right.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

  170. rodney dill says:

    Cheapness as far as the eye can see Hal, but everyone here is used to that from you.

    Is he not old? [Hal said, is 72 million years old]
    You’re the one treating it in a derogatory fashion. cheap.

    Was the green screen speech not one of the most hideous on record?
    Your opinion, calling it hideous, offered as fact? Cheap.

    Did McCain not offer up Cindy in a topless talent contest with simulated fellatio?
    This ones actually pretty funny, but everyone knows that he was either joking or more likely didn’t know that many of the contestants were topless. I’ve never heard of it my self in all the years I’ve heard about the chip throwing contest. I guess you would be the expert on feces throwing though (Omigod I’m starting to make personal attacks just like you, must be too much exposure to the dark side)
    still to make it sound like he offered her up seriosly for this… Cheap.

    Did McCain not have junior high school cheerleaders at his rally? [Hal fails to add that he added the derogatory 'Creepy' to the end of this]
    Cheap.

    I guess you’re going to tell me that I shouldn’t attack a POW or something, right?
    Since your the one calling it getting tired of the ‘old POW bit’, yes.
    Cheap.

    I don’t expect your cheap attacks to stop, after all its the prime political season, but come on, event without your response most readers would see through your cheap attacks.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

  171. Michael says:

    And another thread has become unreadable because of ad hominem tangents. Thanks guys!

    I guess it’s time to go back to DKos to find some objectivity and civility….

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

  172. Hal says:

    Really Michael, you just simply have to stop reading. Even better you can adjust your subscriptions and eliminate the emails from showing up.

    Making a big show of it accomplishes what?

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

  173. Hal says:

    Dill, coming from a guy who thinks it’s his prerogative to teach people how to search for obscure information and who never misses a cheap opportunity to twist a shiv in for careless mistakes, I actually take this whole series of comments lecturing about cheap attacks as a compliment.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

  174. rodney dill says:

    Ha, Well said Hal, I guess it takes one to know one.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

  175. Hal says:

    As I said, before. Touché

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

  176. kelly says:

    you complain about senator Sarah Palin not having experience .a governor is the leader of there guard unit just below the president. she traveled to see her troops in the middle east. Obama had to be bagged.governors also have to deal with terrorist threats. McCain reached for someone away from dc corruption. i think electing obama and his VP. would be more of the some , two senators from congress close to cooperation, instead of one senator and a governor away from the corruption.(out of the box)maybe a male and a female can do better than two men.many countrys have had great female leaders.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

  177. benhed says:

    All i know is she was my mayor then our governor & she was awesome! we don’t want to lose her.Palin is a real getter & fears no1 not even her own party just like McCain. as for experience she was our mayor more years than obamas entire political career as for joe biden he is no spring chicken either. so the real question is who is ready to be Commander in Chief on day 1? gotta agree with Hillary on this 1. John McCain is ready Obama is not.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

  178. [...] Unlike James, I was excited that she was chosen, if for no other reason than to shake up the race, which was not going McCain’s way. Then the revelation about her daughter surfaced. This nauseated me almost as much as Hurricane Gustav, which I had to run from, being in New Orleans and all. [...]

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0