The Beginning Of The End Of Social Conservatism?

The repeal of Don't Ask, Don't Tell is a sign that the political ground is shifting. Will the GOP take notice?

The one surprise yes vote on the bill to repeal Don’t Ask, Don’t Tell was North Carolina’s Richard Burr, a conservative Republican who has been considered a social conservative and gave no indication up until the vote that he was thinking of voting in favor of repeal. Burr’s statement explaining his vote is interesting:

“Given the generational transition that has taken place in our nation, I feel that this policy is outdated and repeal is inevitable. However, I remain convinced that the timing of this change is wrong, and making such a shift in policy at a time when we have troops deployed in active combat areas does not take into consideration the seriousness of the situation on the ground.

“But, the vote this morning to invoke cloture on this bill indicated that the broader Senate was prepared to move forward with a change, and despite my concerns over timing, my conclusion is that repealing Don’t Ask Don’t Tell is the right thing to do.”

Perhaps the most remarkable thing about the repeal of DADT is the extent to which it truly does, as Burr says, serve as evidence of a generational change in the country and in the military regarding homosexuals. Seventeen years ago, President Clinton faced a massive political firestorm for trying to do what the Senate accomplished today and ended up agreeing to the Don’t Ask, Don’t Tell policy as a compromise with the intend of actually making the lives of gay and lesbian service members easier than it had been in the past. As it turned out, implementation of the policy ended up treating them unfairly anyway, but at the time it was still considered a step forward and about the best that could be accomplished given the political climate at the time.

Look where we are seventeen years later. Not only has the compromise been repealed, but the long-standing ban on gays and lesbians serving openly in the military will soon be tossed into the dustbin of history, and it happened with the support of three-quarters of the American people. It reflects a change in attitude on a subject that, for many people, is very touchy, that’s really quite remarkable, and you see it in other ways as well. Same-sex marriage is now legal in five states and the District of Columbia, and three other states recognize same-sex marriages performed in other states. Civil unions for homosexuals are now the law of the land in ten states. And, there’s a lawsuit making it’s way through the Federal Court system that could end up striking down bans on same-sex marriage nationwide.

All of this was inconceivable seventeen years ago, and it raises the question of what this means for the future of social conservatism, or at least for the importance of so-called “social issues” in American politics. Social issues played almost no role in the 2010 midterms, for example, and their role in the 2008 elections was minimal at best. This is a dramatic shift from the early 80s when abortion played a huge role in election campaigns around the country, especially when the Supreme Court issued one of its many rulings from that era testing the limits of the holding in Roe v. Wade. In the 2004 election, referendums to ban same-sex marriage helped bring socially conservative voters to the polls in 2004 and arguably helped George W. Bush defeat John Kerry in states like Ohio. Today, except in limited Congressional districts, it’s hard to conceive that a similar campaign strategy would work. Voters are focused on the economy, and on the size and scope of government, appeals to divisive social issues just aren’t working the same way they used to.

Burr hits the nail on the head in his statement when he refers to generational change. Poll after poll shows a clear generational divide when it comes to issues like same-sex marriage and gay rights. As the younger generation of voters become more politically active, the debate is shifting on those issues to the point where, in twenty years or less, people will likely be amazed that we wasted so much time and money fighting over an issue like who a person should be allowed to enter a committed relationship with.

There’s a lesson in Burr’s vote for the GOP as a whole. Opposition to issues like same-sex marriage and concentration on issues that appeal only to a tiny part of the base may pay political dividends right now, but in the not-too-distant future, it’s likely to turn off an entire generation of voters.

FILED UNDER: *FEATURED, US Politics
Doug Mataconis
About Doug Mataconis
Doug holds a B.A. in Political Science from Rutgers University and J.D. from George Mason University School of Law. He joined the staff of OTB in May 2010 and contributed a staggering 16,483 posts before his retirement in January 2020.

Comments

  1. superdestroyer says:

    It is really just a another sign that the U.S. will soon be a one party state. Since the Republicans refuse to be fiscal conservatives and are not big enough of a party to implement any social policy, there is really no reason for the Republicans to exist. Being a version of Democratic Party-lite is something that few people will support.

    The future of politics in the U.S. is about fighting over who gets the government goodies and who pays. Since there will no limits on the scope, size, and reach of the government, all issues will be settled inside the Democratic Party’s primary process.

  2. Eric Florack says:

    I’m inclined to have sympathy for may of SD’s points.

    Yet, perhaps Doug ignores the outcome of the most recent election. The Democrats were rejected, and knowing themselves doomed to minority status, and knowing it wouldn’t cost them anything, voted to install the left’s wet dreams…. removing DADT being .among them. THey had two years to conduct such a vote, and did not. Why not? Because they knew the political cost would be too high… would cost their political survival.

    Hardly a scenario marking the end of social conservatism… You’re engaging in wishful writing, Doug.

  3. ponce says:

    Bigotry does not equal conservatism.

  4. wr says:

    Hey Eric — According to every recent poll, 70% of the US wanted DADT repealed. Sorry, but even on the right, it’s not okay to hate gays anymore.

    You can still hate Hispanics, though, if today’s votes are any guide. So you might want to transfer your irrational fears and hatreds in that direction, so you’ll be less lonely.

  5. Davebo says:

    “I’m inclined to have sympathy for may of SD’s points.:”

    Knock me over with a feather! Who would have guessed that Bitpart would follow along SuperIHatebrownpeoplemost destroyer?

    The problem for social conservatives is, to be blunt, death by natural causes. And ironically they seem to be totally opposed to any type of socialized medicine despite the fact that most of them are utilizing it now.

    I’m actually considering investing in the funeral home business so I can profit from the demise of the GOP. Service Corporation International perhaps.

  6. Eric Florack says:

    @wr:

    So, you conflate disagreement with hate?
    Interesting.

  7. michael reynolds says:

    I have faith that the conservatives will find some new minority to hate.

    After all, without hate to join with greed the entire Republican coalition falls apart!

  8. michael reynolds says:

    By the way, a prediction: within 24 hours Fox News will have the story of some guy who was going to enlist but now won’t.

    Within 48 hours that story will be revealed as bogus.

    And the correction will never be made on Fox or in the minds of the wingnuts.

  9. tom p says:

    .>”poll after poll shows a clear generational divide when it comes to issues like same-sex marriage and gay rights. ”

    i for one, can not wait for my sons’ generation to take over. No, they won’t do all that much better than ours, but at least I will no longer have to listen to this “he’s not an American” crap, or the “ILLEGAL IMMIGRANTS are RUINING this country” crap, or (best of all) “YOU DON’T LOVE THE BABY JESUS AS MUCH AS ME”…. crap.

    The sooner this shit ends the better.

  10. Rick Almeida says:

    The Democrats were rejected, and knowing themselves doomed to minority status…

    Except in the Senate and 1600 Pennsylvania Avenue, of course.

  11. superdestroyer says:

    Tom P,

    Your son;s generation willl be a generation where less than half the population will be white. Where there will large portions of the country where whites refuse to live because they cannot survive in those areas. Where the small group of middle class whites concentrate themselves into the few areas of the U.S. where they can survive. Where the upper middle class whites spend all of their time trying to avoid the large underclass.

    If you want to see the future, look at Los Angeles. Your son will not have any say because the Hispanics will not let him have any say. Image how the country will work when the U.S. is majority non-white but the U.S. still has different standards for Whites (and Asians) versus everyone else. Look at how low the birthrate is for upper middle class whites and image how low it will be when you son is 40 and the U.S. has few if any middle class whites.

  12. george says:

    Every time there’s a prediction of a long term shift in the electorate (permanent republican majority soon followed by a permanent democratic majority, which lasted in term two years) it turns out to be somewhat premature …

    Mainly because its silly to try to represent something as complex as a person’s political views on a one dimensional linear scale. I know self-described social conservatives who are for gay marriage, and liberals who are against it. Same for DADT. Because most people (the majority don’t give a damn about ideological purity react differently to different issues, and often independent of their ideology. I’d say that’s a good thing, as the world is much too complex to stuff into little boxes of ideological purity.

  13. george says:

    “If you want to see the future, look at Los Angeles. Your son will not have any say because the Hispanics will not let him have any say. Image how the country will work when the U.S. is majority non-white but the U.S. still has different standards for Whites (and Asians) versus everyone else. Look at how low the birthrate is for upper middle class whites and image how low it will be when you son is 40 and the U.S. has few if any middle class whites.”

    I gather your motto is that just because you’re paranoid it doesn’t mean they’re not out to get you?

  14. superdestroyer says:

    George,

    The demographics of Los Angeles today will be the demogrpahics of the U.S. in the future. You may want to look at the recent election results in California. The Democrats did not lose one seat and now control every state wide office. The Republican candidates for the U.S. Senate and the governor were not competitve and had no chance to win.

    The Democrats know that as the demogrpahics of the U.S. become more like the demographics of California the same thing will happen. That is why the Democratic Party does not put any effort into appeal to middle class whites. There is no point in appealling to a group that will have no say in the future.

  15. sam says:

    Jesus, SD, that had to be one of the most paranoid vomitings evah! How can you set foot out of the front door, dude, what with the shit running down the inside of your pants legs as you as you confront the ever darkening of America? Golly, it’s gotta be hard. No wonder you and BitEric are soul brothers (oh, sorry of the offense). He terrified of the future, too, and has as little faith in this country as apparently you do.

  16. JKB says:

    Is it the beginning of the end of social conservatism or the pendulum reaching its extreme before it starts to swing back? We all know America is backward but if we look at the cutting edge European trends we see a lot of women taking up Islam for the strictures that were abandoned. I’d say Islam is socially conservative? So we may see the end of Christian social conservatism but I wonder how the oppressed groups are going to enjoy the replacement.

  17. superdestroyer says:

    Sam,

    If you look up demographic data of California there are fewer whites walking out of their front door. Look at how whites have evacuated cities like El Paso, Houston, Dallas, Chicago, Baltimore, Detroit because there is no place for them in the urban centers and now the suburbs have become hostile to whites.

    Can all the whites in the U.S. pack themselves into places like Minnesota, Vermont, or North Dakota so that they can survive.

  18. floyd says:

    “I have faith that the conservatives will find some new minority to hate. ”
    “””””””””””””””””””””””””””
    I have faith that the liberals will find some new perversion to love.

  19. sam says:

    Give it rest, you racist dickwad. People like you have been poisoning the political air of this country since the beginning. And the outcome is always the same —always — you lose. Get used to to it. Maybe you can start a white peoples Know-Nothing party, with black and brown folks taking the place of the Irish and the Germans.

  20. sam says:

    And floyd, you’re beneath contempt.

  21. superdestroyer says:

    Sam,

    Of course the left always wins. The issue is to try to determine what the long term impact of the left”s victories are. The left pushed for forced busing in the 1970’s and now the Boston Public Schools are less than 15% white. The left pushed for diversity in Detroit and now you have cities where few if any whites live and the population is going down. The left (with the aid of the cheap labor Republicans) won on amensty and immigraiton and now California function as a high tax, hig cost, one-party-state where middle class whites would have to be insane to stay.

    So as the left wins on the next social liberal issue, one should determine what will happen. My guess is that the military will start asking military members what their oreintation is and there will be promotion quotas for homosexuals.

  22. sam says:

    Breathtakingly keen analysis, there. Why, instead of focusing on northern and western states, don’t apply that sharp mind to those peckerwood redstates that are net importers of federal dollars. Tell me how the darkies have corrupted those basket cases?

  23. superdestroyer says:

    Sam,

    You need to look at the demographics of Alabama, Mississippi, and Texas. Whites are a shrinking part of the population. They also still have military bases, something that the northeastern states have given up. Those Redstates also do not have wall street and investment banking that pays high salaries that are taxed at a very high rate compared to everyone else.

  24. sam says:

    And that, destroyerescort, is your argument? To say I’m underwhelmed would be to overstate it.
    This country has survived and thrived in spite of folks like you, folks who think the word ‘American’ has an extension that only includes white people. As I said before, you will lose as you always have, and we will be the better for it.

  25. An Interested Party says:

    “Your son;s generation willl be a generation where less than half the population will be white. Where there will large portions of the country where whites refuse to live because they cannot survive in those areas. Where the small group of middle class whites concentrate themselves into the few areas of the U.S. where they can survive. Where the upper middle class whites spend all of their time trying to avoid the large underclass.”

    My, my…how it terrifies you to live in a country where white people are no longer the majority…and now to have this slap in the face, to actually allow gay people to serve with pride and not in the shadows in the military…a pity for you that we no longer live in the 1950s and never, ever will again…

    “So we may see the end of Christian social conservatism but I wonder how the oppressed groups are going to enjoy the replacement.”

    Life is a little more complex than a Robert Ferrigno novel…but hey, who are any of us to take away from your paranoid fantasies about the future…

    “I have faith that the liberals will find some new perversion to love.”

    I guess that most people in this country must be perversion-loving liberals, as polls show that most Americans support ending DADT…so sorry, floyd…

    The reaction to this from the usual suspects is so predictable…and so delicious…

  26. Trumwill says:

    What George said. I haven’t been an adult for all that long in the grander scheme of things, but it was obvious that the Religious Right was going to doom the GOP in the 90’s. Then it was obvious that the Religious Right was the primary driver behind the “permanent” Republican majority. Color me skeptical that we’re back at the first part and this time it’s really going to happen.

    As long as there is social change being sought, there will be people committed to opposing that social change. The left is not going to stop seeking social change any time soon. It’s only the battlefield that changes. Never the war.

    The left is winning the gay rights battle (hip-hip-hooray!). But they haven’t even won it yet. By the time they do, there’ll be something else that has people alarmed.

  27. tom p says:

    “Your son;s generation willl be a generation where less than half the population will be white. Where there will large portions of the country where whites refuse to live because they cannot survive in those areas. Where the small group of middle class whites concentrate themselves into the few areas of the U.S. where they can survive. Where the upper middle class whites spend all of their time trying to avoid the large underclass. ”

    SD: you have shown yourself to be what you are, mind you, some of us had no doubt, now the rest can not deny it either.

    I have only one question: What makes you think the color of ones skin makes one any more or less an American? I have to point out, that when my Grandfather and grandmother first arrived here, they were just as despised as those you think less than you….

    F*CK YOU SD. You are a truly disgusting example of what America is becoming. You are not an American, you are a caricature, a joke, a pimple on the ass of what the American “dream” is supposed to be.

  28. superdestroyer says:

    Tom,

    You may want to ask Jennifer Gratz why the State of Michigan discriminate against her because she was white. Was She less of an American because her parents were white? You may want to ask the white males who are not in college when black males with lower grades and SAT scores are given scholarships. Are those blue collar white males less of Americans? You may want to ask those whites who are moving out of California or Texas because there is no place for them there any more. You may want to ask those blue collar families in Louisville and Seattle whose children were going to be bussed across town because they were white.

    I notice that it took you a couple of paragraphs to resort to the standard profanity and seems to be the standard response from any liberal to any fact that shows that the U.S. does not have the same population as Finland.

    Of course, the real question does anyone of the left actual believe that diversity is good when they live their lives trying to avoid diversity as a huge cost.

  29. Michael Reynold says:

    I love the impotent rage of the creeps like SD and Zels. Your desperate flop sweat is sweet perfume. Rage on.

  30. floyd says:

    “I have only one question: What makes you think the color of ones skin makes one any more or less an American?”

    Tom p;
    Thanks for the comment I agree whole heartedly, and the conversation here proves that racism is not confined to one end of the political spectrum.

  31. superdestroyer says:

    Michael,

    As the U.S. becomes a one party nation with changing demographics, what model do you think that the U.S. is going to follow: Los Angeles, El Paso, Baltimore, Detroit, Maimi,, NYC, Chicago, or some other area.

    What area that is majority non-white is the best example of what the future holds for the U.S. ?

  32. anjin-san says:

    > I have faith that the liberals will find some new perversion to love.

    You know Floyd, your little lecture about the evils of lying about people who’s politics you disagree with is still ringing in my ears. What a shame you can’t practice what you preach.

    I still suspect there is a decent person hiding in there somewhere. Turn off the right wing radio stations an Fox News and let him enjoy some sunshine and fresh air…

  33. anjin-san says:

    Guys like SD have been around forever. They are losers, and they have to blame their loserdom on someone, be it blacks, Mexicans, gays or some other group.

    My corner of California has a large hispanic population, and my life has not suffered any consequences as a result. If we could wave a magic wand and turn America into a 100% white country, we would all die of boredom in six months…

  34. superdestroyer says:

    anjin-san,

    Unless you give us at least a county I can dig up any data on your county. How good are the schools. Who is moving out and who is moving in? Looking at California, Texas, ARizona, and Florida, whites have hometowns where they grew up but where they cannot live now. The said cannot be said for blacks or Hispanics.

  35. anjin-san says:

    SD… sorry, but you are too fricking stupid to waste time on. I pity you for the fear and hate filled life you lead. Adios…

  36. anjin-san says:

    > voted to install the left’s wet dreams

    If you are referring to equal justice under the law, yes.

  37. floyd says:

    Aip;
    As usual you have a knee jerk reaction to everything I say.
    I have been opposed to DADT since it’s inception. and have said so repeatedly.
    Sexual perversion is not confined to same sex relationships in this country, and seeing it for what it is, does not preclude tolerating it.
    Your apology is like everything else you say, either disengenuous or sarcastic.

  38. wr says:

    Hey SD — I don’t know what it’s like in Cowflop, Alabama, or wherever you hide your head in the dirt, but I live in the LA area — and I’m not scared of brown people. I don’t need to cower in Minnesota out of terror I might run across someone with darker skin than me.

    It doesn’t bother me that you’re a pants-wetting coward of a racist. What bugs me is your belief that every other white person must feel the same way.

    Sorry, loser. Lots of us are able to live in the real world. And we love it here because of all the things you hate. Have fun living out your pathetic life trembling in terror.

  39. Dr Hermann J Schadenfreude, Baronet says:

    Social Conservatives are doomed on gay issues. The younger generations are more pro-gay marriage/gay rights and as they grow up more and more will replace the Social Cons at the voting booth. As for other issues, here in Oklahoma they’ve already shown how out of touch they are with today’s issues. Oklahoma Social Cons recently protested a gathering of Oklahoma Republicans for only one reason: the new conservative Republican State Speaker of the House said his and the Legislature’s priority would be the economy. The Social Cons were upset that he didn’t say abortion and immigration which is ridiculous since Oklahoma has the most strict abortion & immigration laws in the country, to the point that newer laws are being declared unconstitutional, costing taxpayer money.

  40. Herb says:

    Part of me hopes that “social conservative” issues do go the way of the dodo, but that’s only because I’m firmly on the other side.

    The other part of me (the cynical part, I guess) hopes they stick around because it’s really funny listening to social conservatives lecture me about “small government” orthodoxy. A small government that regulates moral issues. Riiiiiight.

  41. michael reynolds says:

    SD:

    Just do me a favor. Next time I remind people that you’re a racist, own up to it, okay? Just open your big stupid mouth and say it loud and proud.

  42. An Interested Party says:

    Do forgive me, floyd, but so much of what you prattle on about does present you as the caricature that you deny beng…as for being opposed to DADT, good for you! Even a stopped clock is right twice a day…

    I was thinking about the juxtaposition of the tax deal and the repeal of DADT and it caused me to wonder when social conservatives will finally stop themselves from being played for fools by the GOP…as these two issues show, we know what the real priorities are for the Republican leadership…

  43. Janis Gore says:

    After having nursed a Vietnam vet gay brother back to health for six monthhs after stage four Hodgkins of the bone marrow, most likely caused by Agent Orange, devotees of DADT can stick it up their a**** with the rest of the corncobs, IMHO.

  44. superdestroyer says:

    WR,

    I see you feel back to the classic liberal non-argument that anecdotes beat data. You may want to realize that the Los Angeles Unified School District is less 10% white and this is in a countythat is only 26% white.

    The history of the U.S. since the 1960’s is whites trying to avoid the negative impacts of minorities. From white flight, dropping birthrates, women in the work place, most of it goes back to middle class and blue collar whites trying to avoid the impact of blacks. Why do you think that the public schools in Washington DC are less than 5% white.

    Demographics was eventually going to eliminate any conservative party in the U.S. The failures of the Bush Administraiton and the congressional Rep[ublicans have just speed up the process of the elimination of any conservative party.

    So the question is what will happen to the U.S. as it becomes a one party state where non-whites are a majority but the affirmative action, racial quotas, racial set asides, disparate impact laws are still on the books. What will happen to the U.S. when whites are a minority but the worst thing a school district can do is have different levels of performance for Whites (and Asians) .

    The left really needs to discuss what they see as the future of the U.S. when the white birthrates drops from 1.6 to less than 1 while the Hispanic birthrate stays around 3. What does the future look like when whites continue to flee areas that are overwhelmingly Hispanics or blacks.

  45. Kylopod says:

    There’s little doubt that the country is growing more gay-friendly. But I don’t see that it’s becoming less socially conservative per se. For example, not long ago a Gallup poll for the first time showed a plurality of Americans identifying as pro-life.

    I also think conservatives have pushed social issues into the background because of the tough economic times, not because they are losing support. According to recent studies, the majority of Tea Partiers hold socially conservative positions, and this is clearlly the case for virtually all the high-profile Tea Party candidates. We needn’t forget that one of the big selling points of Sarah Palin was her decision not to abort a Down Syndrome child.

    I personally think that a lot of the Tea Party animus is simply old culture-war stuff dressed up as economic and fiscal arguments. It’s no coincidence that the Arizona immigration law (which is quite popular nationwide) has become a cause among many Tea Partiers. And on close examination, a lot of Tea Party fiscal arguments turn out to be supply-side antitax rhetoric, which in many ways is a disguised social-cultural issue. For better or worse, Tea Partiers are largely many of the same people who were pushing social issues in the past, and they may well push them again in the future.

  46. floyd says:

    What criteria, do you suppose, is used to determine that a particular person is “white” or any other color for that matter? If it is self-identification, it could be wildly unreliable. Afterall who wants to be “white” anymore?
    Every eight year old girl in the country self-Identifies with Hannah Montana….
    Isn’t the hypen itself inherently racist?
    From the left’s point of view…
    Is it racist to recognize ethnicity, or racist not to?

  47. floyd says:

    Aip;
    Ok , you’re forgiven, now go forth and cease your demeaning attitude.

  48. george says:

    “But I don’t see that it’s becoming less socially conservative per se. ”

    What I see is the definition of socially conservative changing. As I mentioned, I know more than a few self-described social conservatives who have no problem with gay marriage (several are gay themselves). Its probably not unlike a century and a bit ago when the right to vote was extended to all men (and then again a bit later to women) – social conservatives were against it, but now you’d have to look hard to find a social conservative who suggests restricting the right to vote to the landed gentry. Times change.

  49. wr says:

    SD — The left doesn’t have to discuss any of this nonsense, because to sane, non-evil people skin color is a non-issue. You are the one who is terrified and obsessed, and while I’m sure you’d love to pass all sorts of laws restricting the rights of people darker than you, all that’s going to happen is that your kind of thinking will disappear in a few generations. Bye bye, you won’t be missed.

  50. superdstroyer says:

    WR,

    The left ignores the discussion on the impact of changing demographics because it does not want to face the conclusions that would be drawn if it did face the issues. The U.S. was recently shown to be a failure in K-12 education but the left refuses to let race be discussed. Unemployment in California is at double digits but immigraiton, demographics, and white flight are not discussed.

    The white progressives on the left do not want to think about demographics because they are cowards who refuse to face rality. The progressive left is safe in their private schools, gated communities, and Ivy League educations. They do not have to worry that there is no place in the U.S. for blue collar whties anymore.

    I find it sad that the elite whites think that they will be better off with an U.S. that will have the demographics of Mexico or Brazil with a few elite Europeans at the top of the economic pyramid and a large underclass to support them.

  51. matt says:

    Great for some reason the commenting system keeps flagging my post in response to supderdestroyer as spam.. I’ve had this happen before but I cannot figure out what in hell it’s counting as spam when there’s no links etc…

  52. matt says:

    Superdestroyer : Bullshit there’s a crapton of whites living in Houston. I have family (all white) living in Houston who I visit regularly (was just there last month for the weekend). I see the doctors downtown at the medical university on a monthly basis (no issues downtown and plenty of white folks there too). I moved down from south of Chicago a couple years ago with my fiancee who LIVED in Chicago for years. Yes there are sections you don’t want to go to (blacks/hispanics don’t even like going there) but even in the ghetto you’ll find whites contributing to the ghettofication. Overall Chicago has a very white face and certainly isn’t facing a widespread fleeing of whites… El Paso is on the border with Mexico so no surprise that there’s a large hispanic population. BTW El Paso has the lowest crime rate for a city in the entire United States. We as a nation would be lucky if we followed the El Paso model…

    You’re a stereotyping talking point douchebag that doesn’t have a clue as to how little you actually know about this world…

  53. wr says:

    Sorry, SD, I have no interest in duscussing your final solution to what you see as a demographic crisis. Go live as happily as you can while you cower in terror. The rest of the world will move on without you. Ta.

  54. G.A.Phillips says:

    ***I have faith that the conservatives will find some new minority to hate.***lol, 20%Er’s education?

    A minority view of indoctrinated stupid for the express purposes of controlling mind, birth, voting, and spirit.

  55. superdstroyer says:

    W.R.

    There is no solution and since you have not noticed, I have not made any proposal. I have only raised the question is what will be the impact of the changing demographics. The left keeps arguing that the U.S. can have the culture of Finland with the population of Mexico or Brazil.

    I just believe that the it is very foolish, short sighted, and naive to believe that blacks and Hispanics will ever live the lifestyle of the whites living in Burlington, VT.

    What the left needs to really face is how can the U.S. have a high tax, high spending, social welfare state when most of the population if poor, functionally illiterate and paying little if any taxes.

  56. matt says:

    The problem is you’re attributing a certain mindset to them “darkies” and ignoring the fact that there’s plenty of white people running around with the same mindset..

  57. matt says:

    You’re completely delusional. THe United States has some of the lowest tax rates in the developed world…

    I see plenty of blacks and hispanics and *GASP* Arabs living the middle class white style of life. Your blatant racism is just hilariously wrong..

  58. matt says:

    Hell the doctors I see are mostly minorities.. Are you seriously trying to tell me that a black/hispanic/arab/asian doctor doesn’t know how to live like a white doctor?

  59. superdstroyer says:

    Matt,

    The U.S. tax rate is not so low when you add in all of the state and local taxes. Middle Class Americans pay about 40% in taxes now and that is with conservatives having some influence on government. Image what it will be like as the U.S. becomes a one-party-state where liberal whites team with blacks, Hispanics, government employees, and academics. Taxes will eventaully go much higher. That is why the private sector is refusing to invest in the U.S.

    Also, you should look up the standard of living data on Prince Georges County, Maryalnd. It has the highest concentrations of white collar blacks in the U.S. Of course, it also has a high crime rate, terrible schools, a corrupt county government, and is a place that whites have basically evacuated. Middle class whites have zero interest of living near middle class blacks or Hispanics unless the percentage of blacks or Hispanics remains low. That is why middle class whites keep moving out of Califonia or why the Houston Independent School District is less than 10% white.

  60. Kylopod says:

    It’s fun being a liberal. You’re accused by some of talking too much about race, and by others of not talking enough about it.

    It’s kind of like being a Jew, where you’re both a radical Communist and an exploiting Capitalist at the same time.

  61. matt says:

    I don’t know what you’re doing but 40% of my income is not going to taxes (neither is 40% of the income of people I know making +100k a year although they are closer then me). I’m not willing to give you exact details of my income and expenditures but I do keep detailed records..

    “Middle class whites have zero interest of living near middle class blacks or Hispanics unless the percentage of blacks or Hispanics remains low. ”

    Okay you’re completely ignoring the mountains of data contradicting your assumptions and “facts” while cherry picking one instance that on the surface satisfies your pre-conceived notions. It’s funny you mention Prince Georges County because the largest city in that county is predominantly(68%) WHITE and yet has a similar crime rate as the rest of the county. I’m willing to guess it has more to do with local attitudes then the number of “darkies” running around…

  62. matt says:

    Oh wait you’re probably pulling that conservative trick of counting taxes twice by counting the corporate taxes as being paid by the consumers and such…

  63. Zelsdorf Ragshaft III says:

    Since when is sexual preference a reason to be a minority. I though sexual freedom was based upon privacy. Was that just the foot in the door? Michael Reynolds are you a complete idiot or just so vesting in ideological stupitity that it appears that way? A complete reading of all you have ever posted here is a good reason to ban all drug use. It is said that wisdom comes with age. You prove that is not universal. Sorry. I guess people like Reyolds would not mind showering with someone of the same sex who wanted to sodomize him.

  64. matt says:

    Zel : How does the repeal of DADT make it legal for someone to sodomize you without your concent while you’re trying to take a shower?

  65. matt says:

    ZRIII : I cannot speak for anyone else but personally I don’t care if a dude checks me out or not. Hell whenever I went to boys town and a dude would hit on me I’d take it as a compliment because generally gays have better fashion sense then straight people (meaning I was not only well dressed but hot woot). My fiancee finds it hilarious that I’ve got this passive gay magnet thing going on. So personally finding out that I showered with someone that wanted to sodomize me would be a great compliment because I do workout and such 😛

  66. michael reynolds says:

    Zels:

    I’m afraid I’m with Matt on this: I would be flattered.

    I’d also be a bit baffled because quite frankly I expect gay dudes to have slightly better taste.

    However, back in my youth I had a college room mate at SF State who was gay. Steve. I assume he wanted to do me because I was not bad looking at that point. I mean, I’d like to think I had a nice ass back then. Not sure. If you like Zels, I could send you some old Polaroids and you could give me your opinion.

    Anyway, Steve never hit on me because he intuited that I liked girls. (I think the fact that I was clearly on a mission to nail every female I met is what gave it away.)

    Actually Steve came along to one of the group showers we held. There was a wing of the dorm reserved for visitors and thus usually empty. So we’d sneak in, turn eight shower nozzles toward the center of the room, turn off the lights . . . and generally forget why we were there. (Ah, the effect of drugs on focus and short-term memory.) Pretty sure Steve found the whole thing boringly heterosexual.

    When I dropped out of college I rented a house in the Richmond and Steve came with as a room mate. He wasn’t the problem there on California Street. Nor was the third room mate, a straight guy I knew from work. The crazy Filipina chick was the reason we all locked our doors at night.

    You know, Zels, just because a dude winks at you it doesn’t mean you have to bend over, despite that fantasy you keep running over and over and over in your tiny fevered brain.

    There’s a pretty easy way to deal with other guys hitting on you. It goes like this: “No thanks, dude, I’m straight.” Feel free to use that line. It’s magic.

  67. anjin-san says:

    I have had gay men that were interested in me, if they are a quality person, it is flattering in an odd way. If it was a guy who was a creep, it would be creepy, just like having a sleezy woman after you. Since I am only interested in women, it is a moot point, but it certainly does not freak me out.

    Men who are freaked out by gays are typically:

    a. very insecure about their own sexuality and/or manhood
    b. victims of repressed latency

  68. Steve says:

    How many Members o Congress know who Friedrich Wilhelm August Heinrich Ferdinand von Steuben (born Friedrich Wilhelm Ludolf Gerhard Augustin von Steuben) was. We would ,more likely than not, be on the other side of the ocean bowing to the every whim of the King.

    Steuben’s training technique was to create a “model company”, a group of 120 chosen men who in turn successively trained other personnel at Regimental and Brigade levels. Steuben’s eccentric personality greatly enhanced his mystique. He trained the soldiers, who at this point were greatly lacking in proper clothing themselves, in full military dress uniform, swearing and yelling at them up and down in German and French. When that was no longer successful, he recruited Captain Benjamin Walker, his French-speaking aide, to curse at them for him in English. Steuben introduced a system of progressive training, beginning with the school of the soldier, with and without arms, and going through the school of the regiment. This corrected the previous policy of simply assigning personnel to regiments. Each company commander was made responsible for the training of new men, but actual instruction was done by selected sergeants, the best obtainable.

    If George Washington had not hired this individual,Gay or not, we would not hav won the war at Valley Fourge. Tell the Republicans to brush up on their History before taking the oath of office.

  69. Steve says:

    Don’t let these BOZO’s (Republicans) get too much further into our biz until they can pass a test on good ol’ Max.

  70. G.A.Phillips says:

    ****Men who are freaked out by gays are typically:

    a. very insecure about their own sexuality and/or manhood
    b. victims of repressed latency****

    And then again some of us worked at a porn store on the interstate between Milwaukee and Chicago, you know Anjin, the one with the coin operated movies, lol and on third shift.

    the “Gay” dudes seemed just a wee bit more perverted then the the “strait” ones, but only because they used it, the area for dating if you would call it that.

    But you put up a couple nice indoctrination points designed to make people feel bad about their natural instincts.

    I was “hit” on every night, multiple times and I never found it flattering.

    Nothing like a hrony pervert to help form your sense of perversion and it’s definition.

  71. An Interested Party says:

    “And then again some of us worked at a porn store on the interstate between Milwaukee and Chicago, you know Anjin, the one with the coin operated movies, lol and on third shift.

    the ‘Gay’ dudes seemed just a wee bit more perverted then the the ‘strait’ ones, but only because they used it, the area for dating if you would call it that.”

    Now there’s some sterling anecdotal evidence to be used as a basis for any law…

    G.A. must have been hit on by some rather desperate fellas, some of whom probably went home to the wife and kids…

  72. matt says:

    Well it’s a miracle I actually feel sorry for GA. I know the kind of place you’re talking about and there’s an awful lot of creepy “straight” guys going there too ugh..

    If gays were more accepted you’d see a decline in the dates that’s for sure lol…

  73. G.A.Phillips says:

    ***If gays were more accepted you’d see a decline in the dates that’s for sure lol…***

    I sure hope so, at the store in Oshkosh, when we would come back from the bar to check on the new clerks at night, 5-10 of them would be in the woods behind the place having at …….no booths at that store….lol……

  74. matt says:

    The one time I’ve been creeped out was when I went to my first arcade/adult store which was located in a relatively large city and not on the outskirts.. One of the guys hanging at the counter invited me to watch a movie with him in the back (I declined). I could litterly feel the guys staring at me as I was browsing the store…

  75. Barry says:

    JKB says:
    “Is it the beginning of the end of social conservatism or the pendulum reaching its extreme before it starts to swing back? We all know America is backward but if we look at the cutting edge European trends we see a lot of women taking up Islam for the strictures that were abandoned”

    ‘Lots’ as in ‘hundreds’ (out of 300 million people), or ‘lots’ as in enough to matter?

    Perhaps this should be filed under ‘Eurabia and other lies’.

  76. superdestroyer says:

    Matt,

    El Paso does not even have the lowest crime rate in Texas. See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_cities_by_crime_rate. The much whiter city of Plano has a violent crime rate that is about half that of El Paso.

    Majority Hispanic cities have lower crime rates versus majority black cities but that should be expected.

    Of course, the reason that Plano is majority white and has a low crime rate is that the white have had to move out of Dallas to survivie. That is why the Dallas Independent School District is five percent white. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dallas_Independent_School_District#Student_makeup

    The real question is what happens to the U.S. when virtually all public school systems are 5% white. How does the U.S. compete in the world and how does any conservative party survive when whites in the U.S. have to work so hard and spend so much to avoid the government.

  77. Tom Payne says:

    In the midst of two unwinnable wars while having to staff 700 bases around our Empire, why should we any longer deny gays the right to fight and die in our behalf? This wasn’t a new, neater conservatism (nor even a kinder racism, as per many comments on this board). It was simple expediency. We need more cannon fodder. Paying mercenaries is too damn expensive. Better we appeal to these people’s sense of honor (even if disingenuously) if they’ll put their lives on the line instead of our own. Such is the pragmatic nature of the “new” conservatism. And as the climate degrades and the oil runs out, it will get worse.

  78. Tom Payne says:

    PS @ superdestroyer You are plain disgusting.

  79. Joel S Henderson says:

    @ Tom Payne – hear hear!!

    I’m about as ‘conservative’ (governmentally-speaking) as anyone I’ve ever come across…however, my views about the role of gov’t have NOTHING to do with social matters; IMO, the less involvement that gov’t has to do with social matters, the better.

    From where I stand, the federal gov’t has a few, important roles: national defense, protecting people’s civil liberties, protecting citizens in regards to contracts, and regulating interstate commerce…NOT empire-building or creating a society that appeals to a certain few.

    In any case, my political ‘conservatism’ aside…the hatred/xenophobia that some people are posting here is pretty sad & doesn’t exactly give me a lot of hope for the future…