Trump’s Bizarre, Anti-Veteran Rant
The Toddler-in-Chief strikes again.
I’ve been busy with the start of our new academic year and bit under the weather so haven’t written much the last few days. President Trump’s bizarre and outrageous remarks about American’s lost in wars have garnered some discussion in the open fora but they’re worth a bit more examination.
The story broke in The Atlantic (“Trump: Americans Who Died in War Are ‘Losers’ and ‘Suckers’“) by editor-in-chief Jeffrey Goldberg:
When President Donald Trump canceled a visit to the Aisne-Marne American Cemetery near Paris in 2018, he blamed rain for the last-minute decision, saying that “the helicopter couldn’t fly” and that the Secret Service wouldn’t drive him there. Neither claim was true.
Trump rejected the idea of the visit because he feared his hair would become disheveled in the rain, and because he did not believe it important to honor American war dead, according to four people with firsthand knowledge of the discussion that day. In a conversation with senior staff members on the morning of the scheduled visit, Trump said, “Why should I go to that cemetery? It’s filled with losers.” In a separate conversation on the same trip, Trump referred to the more than 1,800 marines who lost their lives at Belleau Wood as “suckers” for getting killed.
While I would be outraged if President Obama had said this (which is frankly unimaginable), my initial reaction to the news was a shrug. Trump is an imbecile and quite probably mentally ill. He’s said this sort of thing before. It doesn’t even strike me as a well-formed thought so much as a simpleton’s view of the world: good soldiers win.
Goldberg, though, starts with the presumption that we’re dealing with a normal President.
Trump’s understanding of concepts such as patriotism, service, and sacrifice has interested me since he expressed contempt for the war record of the late Senator John McCain, who spent more than five years as a prisoner of the North Vietnamese. “He’s not a war hero,” Trump said in 2015 while running for the Republican nomination for president. “I like people who weren’t captured.”
here was no precedent in American politics for the expression of this sort of contempt, but the performatively patriotic Trump did no damage to his candidacy by attacking McCain in this manner. Nor did he set his campaign back by attacking the parents of Humayun Khan, an Army captain who was killed in Iraq in 2004.
Trump remained fixated on McCain, one of the few prominent Republicans to continue criticizing him after he won the nomination. When McCain died, in August 2018, Trump told his senior staff, according to three sources with direct knowledge of this event, “We’re not going to support that loser’s funeral,” and he became furious, according to witnesses, when he saw flags lowered to half-staff. “What the fuck are we doing that for? Guy was a fucking loser,” the president told aides. Trump was not invited to McCain’s funeral.
While I very much remember Trump’s crude remarks about McCain, I had forgotten the timing: they were reported by POLITICO in July 2015—months before the first votes were cast in the Republican primary. So, it’s not that partisans stuck with a choice between him and Hillary Clinton simply swallowed their frustration; literally a dozen objectively-more-qualified Republicans were still in the race (as were a handful of others). His supporters simply didn’t care.
In the cases of McCain and the Khan family, it was at least understandable: they were attacking him and he was “fighting back.” Repugnant, sure, but that was his way and his supporters ate it up.
Trump’s understanding of heroism has not evolved since he became president. According to sources with knowledge of the president’s views, he seems to genuinely not understand why Americans treat former prisoners of war with respect. Nor does he understand why pilots who are shot down in combat are honored by the military. On at least two occasions since becoming president, according to three sources with direct knowledge of his views, Trump referred to former President George H. W. Bush as a “loser” for being shot down by the Japanese as a Navy pilot in World War II. (Bush escaped capture, but eight other men shot down during the same mission were caught, tortured, and executed by Japanese soldiers.)
When lashing out at critics, Trump often reaches for illogical and corrosive insults, and members of the Bush family have publicly opposed him. But his cynicism about service and heroism extends even to the World War I dead buried outside Paris—people who were killed more than a quarter century before he was born. Trump finds the notion of military service difficult to understand, and the idea of volunteering to serve especially incomprehensible. (The president did not serve in the military; he received a medical deferment from the draft during the Vietnam War because of the alleged presence of bone spurs in his feet. In the 1990s, Trump said his efforts to avoid contracting sexually transmitted diseases constituted his “personal Vietnam.”)
Again, Goldberg is inexplicably operating under the assumption he’s dealing with an intelligent man with a coherent worldview. Few Americans, relatively speaking, have served in the military. Most instinctively understand why we honor those lost in our wars—even wars they personally disagree with. And Trump famously went to a military-themed prep school; he was certainly trained in the ways of honor, courage, and commitment—it just didn’t take.
The anecdote which has drawn the most attention is this one:
On Memorial Day 2017, Trump visited Arlington National Cemetery, a short drive from the White House. He was accompanied on this visit by John Kelly, who was then the secretary of homeland security, and who would, a short time later, be named the White House chief of staff. The two men were set to visit Section 60, the 14-acre area of the cemetery that is the burial ground for those killed in America’s most recent wars. Kelly’s son Robert is buried in Section 60. A first lieutenant in the Marine Corps, Robert Kelly was killed in 2010 in Afghanistan. He was 29. Trump was meant, on this visit, to join John Kelly in paying respects at his son’s grave, and to comfort the families of other fallen service members. But according to sources with knowledge of this visit, Trump, while standing by Robert Kelly’s grave, turned directly to his father and said, “I don’t get it. What was in it for them?” Kelly (who declined to comment for this story) initially believed, people close to him said, that Trump was making a ham-handed reference to the selflessness of America’s all-volunteer force. But later he came to realize that Trump simply does not understand non-transactional life choices.
“He can’t fathom the idea of doing something for someone other than himself,” one of Kelly’s friends, a retired four-star general, told me. “He just thinks that anyone who does anything when there’s no direct personal gain to be had is a sucker. There’s no money in serving the nation.” Kelly’s friend went on to say, “Trump can’t imagine anyone else’s pain. That’s why he would say this to the father of a fallen marine on Memorial Day in the cemetery where he’s buried.”
Again, this would be shocking coming from anyone else. Bill Clinton famously dodged the draft and his administration was constantly forced to answer for inside-the-house quotes that the military brass found disparaging. But Clinton had the decency and good judgment not to say this sort of thing even if he believed it—and he was a much younger man. (Recall that Trump, elected in 2016, is two months older than Clinton, elected in 1992.)
White House sources and Trump himself have vehemently denied the story. But even Fox News has confirmed the main points. (They were unable to corroborate pieces of it, though.)
But this should have been baked into our understanding of who Trump was five years ago. It’s why so many Republicans—including just about anyone who was anyone in the Republican national security establishment—abandoned Trump. He’s simply unfit to sit at the Resolute desk, much less serve as commander-in-chief of our armed forces.
I am shocked, shocked I tell you…
Yeah, I had the same reaction as you James: “He is who I knew he was way back when.”
Still, I was caught by his abhorrent lack of empathy and self awareness while standing at the grave of Lt Robert Kelly with his no doubt still grieving father. That was a moment that showed the true depth of trump’s amoral character. The fact that 40% of our country’s citizens will accept this with a “So what?” shrug or bury their heads in the “fake news” sand is far more troubling tho.
Trump supporters say they’re absolutely sure the Atlantic story is fiction. Rush Limbaugh claims that it was being held in wait by the magazine and the DNC as an October surprise, but it had to be released early because of the Nancy Pelosi hair salon scandal, which was garnering a lot of attention.
Everything bad said about Trump is always Fake News.
We all agree that Trump is an imbecile, moron, demented and mentally ill, but to dismiss his ravings because of that is to normalize them. Allowing those who support him for tax cuts, deregulation and judges, off the hook if they are taken aback by his rantings. Sh$t, no one cares about the crazy stuff, so why don’t I vote for him for the goodies.
Goldberg is correct in holding him to the same standards we would hold any president or for that matter any citizen.
Yeah, there was no way we could have seen this coming…
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/politics/wp/2017/10/23/it-made-me-cry-gold-star-widow-myeshia-johnson-breaks-silence-on-trumps-condolence-call/
@mattbernius:
I vividly remember when this happened. How hard could it have been for Trump to get the name right? Obviously, too hard. Or he didn’t care to make the effort to check.
My nomination for the most ridiculous statement of the decade (I know we are less than one year in):
VP Pence: “To know President Trump is to know someone who’s word is his bond.”
He had to have thrown up a little bit in his mouth when he said this.
@Sleeping Dog:
I agree with the latter but not the former.
Each new outrage should be added to the long list of reasons Trump must be removed from office, notwithstanding that one might, say, prefer his Supreme Court picks to Biden’s. But it’s absurd to analyze him as though he were normal and that each new outrage is surprising. At some point, this is simply who he is.
As have 10 people who were actually there, including John Bolton
Kelly’s silence says it all.
Mattis’ silence says it all.
@JKB:
Bolton has said, on the record, he was not with the President the entire day. Your post doesn’t say what you think it does.
@JKB:
https://twitter.com/Yastreblyansky/status/1302037601239674882
More here, I couldn’t quote from it though:
https://twitter.com/Yastreblyansky/status/1302037601239674882/photo/1
@James Joyner:
But it’s absurd to analyze him as though he were normal and that each new outrage is surprising. At some point, this is simply who he is.
But, it is a problem – a massive collective problem – that you (and others) would initially react to this story with a shrug. But, it’s not Trump’s problem, it is ours.
Earlier this week, you thought Nancy Pelosi stepped on a political landmine by getting her hair washed without a mask. You held her to a standard of political participation that we both understood whether we agreed with it or not. But, what has become normalized for Trump is incomprehensible. We’ve become numb to his imbecility, crassness, ineptitude, corruption, and bigotry.
This is dangerous, isn’t it? As exhausting as it has become, we still need to summon the outrage when he behaves in ways that would outrage us if he were some other politician. Hell, as it would outrage us if he were any other human being. Otherwise, it becomes the new normal.
Can’t manage to be surprised by Trump’s latest outrage? Then direct the surprise toward his enablers and supporters who still refuse to abandon him. But, don’t let it become absurd to scrutinize it anymore. Nothing good could come from that.
@JKB:
Testimony from Joe Isuzu is not admissible in court.
@charon:
This might work better:
https://twitter.com/Yastreblyansky/status/1302036808872669184/photo/1
@charon:
maybe this:
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EhHENOgXgAIc8df?format=png&name=large
ETA:
Yes, this is best linky
Here is some Bloomberg:
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2020-09-04/bolton-says-trump-remarks-on-military-despicable-if-accurate
@James Joyner:
I think this is the formulation I quibble with. There is only one reason that Trump must be removed from office — it’s that he’s an incompetent vindictive sociopath. That’s more than sufficient reason. Each new outrage is merely confirmation, as you note. The evidence is already in, and it’s overwhelming — yes, water is still wet.
We need to stop wasting time noting confirmatory incidents and focus on unbrainwashing The Faithful, putting pressure on the GOP enablers, and getting the [expletive deleted] out of office. Pointing at new outrages does not help with any of those activities — the brainwashed are immune, the enablers are fully aware, and no votes are influenced. We need to shift the point of attack.
@Scott F.:
It is absurd to parse the rantings of a known lunatic as though it were new news that he’s a lunatic. That so many veterans continue to support him when it would disqualify anyone else is a story. That Kelly didn’t resign on the spot is a story. That Trump is a sociopath? Old news.
Seth Cohen at Forbes magazine says that it’s Kelly’s patriotic duty not to remain silent about what Trump said. I agree.
@JKB:
He said it.
You know he said it.
You’ve come here with no purpose but to lie. As always.
@James Joyner:
To you. But those that live in the Fox bubble only hear vague whispers of these drowned out by the constant praise from the Murdoch army. But sometimes something breaks through….
And, given that Trump is busily engaged in trashing Kelly now, you’d think that Kelly would want to defend himself, at the very least.
I don’t understand this. Is it part of the military code of honor that one not criticize the commander in chief, even when that “commander” is engaged in libeling and slandering one?
FTFY, free to a repeat customer.
@JKB:
As denials go that is pretty weak sauce.
Are you really hanging your hat on this? Bolton is at least acknowledging that he could have said it.
@James Joyner:
On the one hand, I agree that there is nothing surprising here in terms of Trump.
On the other, I think that there is value is constantly underscoring what a sociopath he is because there are still people out there who need to understand this fact.
@MarkedMan:
I don’t know if it’s Fox so much as it is The Gateway Pundit, The Conservative Treehouse, and other crackpot blogs. Fox, like the Drudge Report, is now seen as very left-wing by true Trumpkins.
Yes, there is a bit of ho-hum to this. Had you asked me four years ago whether Trump was capable of respect for our war dead I’d have told you, no. Of course he’s not capable of it, he’s a psychopath. It’s right there in the definition of what this man is.
Next up, by the way, we’ll likely see quotes from him ridiculing and disparaging Christians. Because you know he does. Even @JKB knows in his corrupt, dishonest heart that Trump laughs at Christians.
Was it a timed release? Yeah, probably, and Limbaugh is too stupid to see the point of the timing with his nonsense about Pelosi’s hair. It was timed for Labor Day weekend. You know, when Americans famously start paying attention to the election? It will be the topic of conversation in families all across the country.
Will it hurt Trump in the polls? Not much. If people like @JKB were partisans it would hurt, but this is a cult of personality and culties are faithful right to the fiery end. Self-destruction is baked into the nihilistic mind-set of culties. They’ve already committed mental and spiritual suicide by surrendering their shriveled souls to their orange Jesus stand-in.
It won’t cut Trump’s 42% much, but it’ll destroy Trump’s effort to get back to 46%. His campaign people keep trying to get him to act like a human, but he’s not capable of it.
@EddieInCA:
@DrDaveT: I keep wasting time commenting at WAPO that they bury the lede. The story isn’t that Trump said thus and so. The story isn’t that Trump is walking back something stupid, or that he’ll walk back the walkback tomorrow. The story isn’t that Trump doesn’t understand this or that. Thestory isn’t that Trump incited violence. The story is that the President of the United States and Commander in Chief of our Armed Forces is babbling incoherently.
@Michael Reynolds:
I would have agreed with you four years ago that Trump would not respect our war dead. But even I thought he could manage to fake it.
@James Joyner:
I agree. Which is why I will continue to implicate Trump’s enablers and supporters in his unfitness for the presidency at every opportunity between now and the election.
The story is this disgrace of a man still polls in the 40s and he could still somehow be re-elected.
@James Joyner: Kelly was trying to keep the dumpster fire inside of the dumpster–while Im sure his instinct was to walk out–his since of sacrifice and duty got the better of him. Im sure he has an impressive list of bad options, decisions that he kept out of Trump’s purview.
I have worked for Toxic bosses–obviously nothing like Trump. But the instinct to protect as many people as you can from the SOB is a motivating factor to keep you going to work
@Jim Brown 32: This is pretty much the same explanation as the famed anonymous staffer.
And I am sure it is how folks like Lindsay Graham will rationalize this conversions after this chapter of our history comes to a close.
They were all actually saving us from the worst of Trump’s excesses.
@CSK: Yes, and moreso from retired General Officers. Never criticize civilian leadership in public. However, in Trumps case, you really have to weigh out the effects of criticism and timing. Remember, Mattis has been critical of Trump when conversation meandered into military use to suppress protestors.
You have diminishing bang for the buck and small windows to fire with criticism. If Kelly were to say anything, I would anticipate he would fire closer to election day. 2 months out is to far away
@Jim Brown 32:
Thank you! I hope that Kelly does choose to unburden himself one day.
@gVOR08:
That’s always been the X factor with Trump: stupid, sure, but how stupid? Turns out: really stupid.
@Jim Brown 32:
There’s a NYT piece from yesterday that states that this is explicitly Kelly’s positon — 4-star should not criticize during a contentious political election. (Note I posted the quote but it’s stuck in the SPAM filter).
However, in my mind this also calls into question the wisdom of having them serve in civilian roles post-retirement. If their former rank means that regardless of what they see, they are unable to publicly criticize, even if they feel the criticism is warranted, is their taking those positions good for a functional democracy/government in the first place?
@CSK: I agree with you about the hard core Trumpers but there’s no chance of reaching them and that’s why I singled out the Fox News bubble. I’m thinking of a particular casual friend of mine who doesn’t pay that much attention to politics. I assume he mostly watches Fox News, but for the sports and weather. Much of his family, on the other hand, are fairly hard core Trumpers and he likes his family so he’ll probably end up voting for Trump if he votes. But if he’s waiting for work to be done on his car and cell reception is bad and they have CNN playing in the waiting room he might watch it and if he saw an unbiased summary of this issue it might just turn him around. Not enough to argue with his family but enough to keep him home or even vote for Biden.
@MarkedMan:
I truly would like to know how many people there are like your friend: possibly open to reason and persuasion, but surrounded by Trumpers whom they don’t want to alienate. Not voting doesn’t seem to be an option, because the Trumpers will be upset with you. I suppose one could express token support for Trump to keep the peace and then quietly vote for Biden.
“Photographs cannot create a moral position, but they can reinforce one—and can help build a nascent one.” Susan Sontag
The first thing that struck me in this post, was the photograph at the beginning, after all, aren’t they worth a thousand words?
Why do all the pointy heads constantly deny what they can see with their own eyes. Look at the photograph at the top the piece for Christ’s sake. The humble man, who sacrificed a life of leisure to lead us to the land of plenty, solemnly and selflessly saluting our great military. We just need stop allowing our minds to cloud our judgment. He is truly America’s Bodhisattva, and the liberals are just a bunch of haters.
For clarification, the above was written using absurdity to make a point. In this age of Trump, I have seen his supporters use similar, but even more absurd arguments, apparently being serious about them. Hence I felt the need to explain.
We are now in the age of video, and it is photography on steroids, for their ability to manipulate emotions to sell products and predigested opinions. In an above post senyordave shared a quote from the Vice President, “To know President Trump is to know someone who’s word is his bond.”
From what I can tell, Pence is a true believer, and is being sincere. This is the power that video, coupled with motivated reasoning, has on a large segment of our citizens. Trump’s presidentcy, has been nothing but a long PR campaign promoting himself. Indeed one can argue, his entire public life has been one. He shamelessly uses this to his advantage, and because he is humorless, can always maintain a straight face in his cartoonish skits.
The fact that he is politically amorphous, coupled with his constant, ubiquitous and attritious speaking (and tweeting), there are always, snippets of video to show in hindsight “proof” of what ever arguments he or his minions want to make. In essence calling heads and tails on film, then editing the wrong call out, after the coin is flipped.
The totality of Trump’s very public life demonstrates his true feelings about our military, as well as every thing else. In our times of personal exposure, Trump stands out as being, notably transparent, however dishonest. That he has utter contempt for anything that doesn’t scream out “winner”,
including his true self, is a symptom of his obvious disorder. Just like the fact that I wouldn’t be offended by a blind man accidentally bumping into me, I find his opinions entirely inconsequential.
Trump is but a symptom of our current malaise, alleviated by the ballot box. I believe the root cause, and biggest threat to future of our Democracy, is this new medium of instant video, and its effects on people’s motivated reasoning.
@CSK: I don’t think “persuadable” is quite the right word. I suspect he views politics like I view NBA basketball, I.e. not at all. Not interested and will tune out if people start talking about it. But if I saw that some basketball player had done something horrible to a puppy and there was a way I could vote against him or his team, I would. Similarly, if I saw that a player had rescued a small child from a burning building and could through him my support, I would. But I still wouldn’t watch a game.
@MarkedMan:
Then if I understand you correctly, this guy will just vote for Trump out of inertia and to keep his family happy.
I suspect there are a lot of people like that.
And everyone, including the people who voted for him, knew that already before the election even happened. We have met the enemy, and he continues to be us. (Forgive me for being redundant, but all of the outrage has become tiresome.)
@CSK: “I hope that Kelly does choose to unburden himself one day.”
If he does, I will happily send him telegram inviting him to kiss my ass.
Once Trump is out of office the world will be flooded with books and articles by his loyal defenders telling us all the dirt about him, and how they only stayed to save the country… and only spoke out when it was completely safe and they could cash in with out any repercussions.
Do it now when it counts or be damned forever.
@CSK: “Fox, like the Drudge Report, is now seen as very left-wing by true Trumpkins.”
Sure, but the Fox bubble is pretty big. The hardcore rightwing sites are comparatively tiny. You may never peel off the core that reads Treehouse every day, but it you can get a chunk of that Fox audience away from Trump he’s toast.
@wr:
I know. It just never fails to confound me that some people can say, with a straight face, that Fox is left-wing, and that Chris Wallace and Brett Baier are undercover agents for the Demonrats, as they call them. This is an alternate reality I can’t grasp.
I suppose that everyone who doesn’t adore Trump is a minion of the socialist Satan.
@Teve: How often have women shown that they are much stronger than the many men who surround them? Particularly when it comes to standing up to bullying assholes? Examples abound…
He just thinks that anyone who does anything when there’s no direct personal gain to be had is a sucker. There’s no money in serving the nation.”
Obviously, Trump does not know that military service has provided upward mobility for a generation of poor/working class people from small towns in the South and Midwest. Some enlist take advantage of the training and transfer to the civilian job market. Others attend one of the US Military Academies
or join ROTC to prepare for a career as a military officer, and retire after 20 years with enough experience to land a high-level job in the civilian job market. You will not get rich but the military has provided direction and discipline, a stable career and middle class lifestyle for millions of men and women. You would think the leader of the working class would know this
@CSK: You didn’t know that? I have a friend on the membership committee; I can hook you up if you want/need to join.