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Alaskans Have Soured On Sarah Palin

There was a time when Sarah Palin had the highest approval ratings of any Governor in the U.S., upwards of 80% according to one poll taken before she was named John McCain’s running mate in August 2008, but those times are long, long gone:

We’ve polled Palin’s favorability in ten states over the last couple months. In Alaska just 33% of voters have a favorable opinion of her to 58% with a negative one. The only place where fewer voters see her positively than her own home state is dark blue Massachusetts.

Democrats hate Palin in Alaska but they hate her everywhere so there’s nothing newsworthy about that. What makes her home state numbers unusually bad is that Republicans see her favorably by only a 60/30 margin. In most places she’s closer to 80% favorability within her own party. Also while independents don’t like her anywhere their level of animosity in Alaska is unusually large- 65% unfavorable to only 25% with a favorable opinion.

It’s not a coincidence that the 35% of the vote Joe Miller appears to have received in the Alaska Senate race is almost identical to the 33% who have a favorable opinion of Palin. Miller allowed himself to practically become a surrogate for Palin and while that was good for letting him pull off a primary victory by the slimmest of margins it was not so good for his prospects in the general election.

The Alaska numbers may be a personal rebuke, but they really only a symptom of a much wider phenomenon:

What’s more relevant is that a majority of voters in every single state we have polled so far on the 2012 race has an unfavorable opinion of her. And her average favorability in the Bush/Obama states of Florida, Ohio, North Carolina, and Virginia that are most likely essential to Republican chances of retaking the White House is 36/56.

Here are the numbers:

You’re being warned, Republicans. You’re being warned.

Related Posts:

About Doug Mataconis
Doug holds a B.A. in Political Science from Rutgers University and J.D. from George Mason University School of Law. He joined the staff of OTB in May, 2010 and also writes at Below The Beltway. Follow Doug on Twitter | Facebook

Comments

  1. Axel Edgren says:

    So the state that has experienced her the most in a way that actually matters don’t care for her at all.

    There are some who would say this is just lazy and irrelevant Palin-bashing fit only for lefty blogs. I think it is quite relevant both for US voters in general and the GOP in particular.

    Naaaaah, pointing out that exposure to Palin as a holder of office coincides with clear disapproval of her – that’s just Palin Derangement Syndrome!

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

  2. section9 says:

    And yet Alaskans lined up in droves to buy her book when she had a signing.

    Something tells me that a poll taken by PPP in an off year just after most of her candidates won their House and Senate races doesn’t have the validity you think it does.

    If she ran against Begich in 2014, she would whip his butt. But you all believe what you want to believe. On the other hand, there’s a Gallup poll that just came out that showed her the second most admired woman in the country after Hillary.

    Look, I know you desperately want to believe that Palin has become toxic in her own state, primarily because you are all trying to breathe life into the moldering corpse that is Team Romney, but the anecdotal information suggests to me that when she campaigns for herself, as she did in 2006, she does very, very well.

    Bottom line? Polls taken this far out have very little meaning in the absence of an actual campaign because most of the public simply isn’t engaged.

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  3. TBogg says:

    Don’t listen to Doug, Republicans. Americans love the Mama Grizzly. She should be your l nominee for at least the next three presidential elections. Sarah 2012/2016/2020

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

  4. Mike says:

    I’m engaged, if she runs I’ll vote for Romney, if she gets the nomination I’ll vote for Obama. She’s a perfect fit for reality TV, all show, no substance

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  5. Patrick T. McGuire says:

    “…but those times are long, long gone:”

    They must have been following your posts on OTB.

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  6. democratsarefascists says:

    PPP = Soros poll.

    Meaningless.

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  7. Axel Edgren says:

    “And yet Alaskans lined up in droves to buy her book when she had a signing.”

    Yeah, and everyone who watches her ‘reality’ show are her supporters.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

  8. Jay Tea says:

    Congrats, Doug, you’ve fulfilled your daily quote of Palin-bashing pieces. Christ, I was NEVER this obsessive about Ted Kennedy, and even I admit I was fixated.

    I have to admit, though, I’m puzzled. Why do you feel it significant to announce EVERY SINGLE DAY, virtually without exception, how utterly meaningless she is?

    J.

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  9. Smooth Jazz says:

    “You’re being warned, Republicans. You’re being warned”

    And your warning is based on – Wait for it: a DailyKOS/PPP poll, with an oversampling of Dems no doubt. That’s right, you are taking your cues from DailyKOS pollsters now. Good grief. At least you can look at the bright side: You’ve met your Palin hit piece quota for today.

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  10. wr says:

    Jay Tea — Maybe it’s because whenever Doug posts something about Palin, you and Smoothy and all the other groupies start blasting out comments. Notice that Palin threads can run into the triple digits, where others stall before they hit double. I suspect if the Palin lovers like yourself could stop ranting everytime they suspect their goddess has been slighted, Doug would have to find something else to post about.

    It’s a traffic-driver, a loss-leader. And you are the loss being led…

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

  11. Mike says:

    Why would someone without a favorable opinion of her watch the show or buy her book? Are the PDS-diseased that sick in the head, that they want to wallow in the object of their irrational hatred?

    Jay Tea asks the central question. The answer is evident. People who are dying of the cancer known as cynicism quiver and soil themselves at the prospect of anyone genuine running for office. Palin’s the real deal and they can’t wrap their tiny minds around that.

    They phonied up Obama as a savior and sold him to gullible Americans, and with the help of their RINO counterparts, shoved the East Coast elites’ pick-to-lose McCain down our throats because they LIKE the corruption. They like the feeling of being one of the worms crawling through the ooze of DC. Status quo.

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  12. mantis says:

    Why do you feel it significant to announce EVERY SINGLE DAY, virtually without exception, how utterly meaningless she is?

    I don’t believe Doug has ever said she is meaningless. I’ve been hanging around here for a while now, and it’s pretty clear to me Doug thinks a Palin candidacy for president would be a disaster for Republicans, and he’d like to see the party move in a more sensible, less retarded direction. She’s not meaningless. She’s a threat to Doug’s political goals (and those of most sensible Republicans, however many of those remain).

    Conversely, a Palin candidacy would be quite good for Democrats, of course. Part of me wants the Republican Party to wake up and decide they are interested in governing and dealing with the problems our country faces, and the other part of me wants them to drown in their own bathtub. As you would expect, the latter part is rooting for Palin.

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  13. The Other Ed says:

    After telling the the voters of Alaska “F— you! I’m taking the money!” when she quit halfway through a first term, I’m amazed that even 35% still have a favorable opinion of her.

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  14. wr says:

    What’s really amazing is that the Palinites see polls that give her approval at 28%, then declare them bogus because thousands of people line up at her book signings.

    Here’s a thought, guys — 28% still makes for a lot of bodies. A book signing is going to look huge if only a couple hundred people show up. And the people who like Palin really like her — certainly enough to show up to support her.

    That passion is real, but it isn’t nearly enough to get her elected to anything, unless the other 72% decide to stay home…

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

  15. anjin-san says:

    > Why do you feel it significant to announce EVERY SINGLE DAY, virtually without exception, how utterly meaningless she is?

    Why do you repeat this stupidity endlessly. I don’t think anyone regards Palin as meaningless or unimportant. Clearly, she is a force to be reckoned with. The bad news is that she has the potential to do even more damage to the country than Bush did.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

  16. Louis Wheeler says:

    A poll like this is nothing but propaganda. The 2012 election is too far away for even an honest poll to be meaningful. Who Knows what may happen? America could be in a “Anybody but Obama mood” in the next election. It’s also important who her competition would be. The state of the economy matters, as well. If we have a bad economy with high unemployment and price inflation, as I suspect we will, then Obama’s goose is cooked along with most of her Republican competition.

    What’s interesting is “why is the Left so scared of Sarah? Why are they so determined to keep her from running?” If the Left believed that she was unelectable, then they would be begging her to run, but they are not. You know something is fishy when the Democrats are warning the Republicans that she is unelectable. Do you think that the TEA Party is going to care about this poll? LOL

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  17. mantis says:

    If the Left believed that she was unelectable, then they would be begging her to run, but they are not.

    Yes we are. Run Sarah run!

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

  18. Axel Edgren says:

    First of all – I’ve seen religious people talk about their deities with more aesthetic presence, skeptical faculties and self-distance than these Palinites. This is the main reason I loathe teepers – they are so tacky. I swear you are giving the disgustingly obsessive Ron Paul supporters from 2008 a run for their money.

    Second of all – W, much like McCain, turned out to be unexpectedly degenerate. Nothing could have prepared sensible right-wingers and the left for exactly what kind of evil was harbored inside. Heck, McCain managed to campaign and lose with even less dignity than I predicted, which is saying a lot.

    But Palin gave an advance warning about what kind of pure resentment lurks inside of her. We *know* she is dumber than Quayle and more cynical than Nixon, so why not bash her at every opportunity? She is a bad, nasty person and both duty and ethics demand she and her supporters be put where they belong.

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  19. wr says:

    Mr. Wheeler — I don’t beg Palin to run because she has no idea who I am and would not bother to listen to me if I somehow managed to gain her attention — why would she? So I am free to express my contempt for this carny huckster without fear that I will be dissuading her from destroying the Republican party by running.

    If I gain admittance to her circle of advisors, I’ll be sure to start pretending I think she should run.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

  20. Axel Edgren says:

    I still have to marvel at the “But the left fears her!” argument for GOP supporters. It reveals a complete alienation of your opponent – since my opponent is “the other” then *everything* he fears I must embrace and everything he enjoys I must spit on and lambast. It’s a complete surrender to your enemy’s initiative – rather than actually have a mind of your own you try to create a negative of your enemy.

    Obama likes arugula? Make a moose/mayo sammich – that’ll show him.
    The left hates the idea of mountaintop removal or saving money by skimping on safety measures? Set the poor corporations FREE!
    The left likes trees and electing people with a modicum of genuine intelligence and knowledge? Cut the trees down and turn them into posters for the Palin/Gingrich campaign!

    This has interesting possibilities – imagine if Obama went out in public and expressed his disapproval of smashing your gonads with a mallet.

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  21. An Interested Party says:

    “On the other hand, there’s a Gallup poll that just came out that showed her the second most admired woman in the country after Hillary.”

    Oh yes, that 12% is monumental…as you wrote, you all believe what you want to believe…

    “Why do you feel it significant to announce EVERY SINGLE DAY, virtually without exception, how utterly meaningless she is?”

    Actually, what it appears that he is doing is to warn Republicans not to nominate her to be their standard bearer in 2012…well, that is, if they actually want to win the White House…

    “Why would someone without a favorable opinion of her watch the show or buy her book?”

    Most wouldn’t, they simply want her to be the GOP nominee in 2012 so that the president will easily win reelection…

    “People who are dying of the cancer known as cynicism…”

    But enough about the entire GOP strategy directed at the president ever since he was inaugurated…

    “What’s interesting is ‘why is the Left so scared of Sarah? Why are they so determined to keep her from running?’”

    A false meme…those who are actually scared of her running are people like Doug and James…

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

  22. Mike says:

    What’s amusing is that all those who are “warning” the GOP about picking her are the same kind of losers who warned against choosing Reagan.
    Democrats who knew down in their squirmy, yellow guts that he’d win.
    Along with the same RINO-lovers who want to elect Democrats wrapped in GOP clothing.
    Same tactic.
    Same OLD tactic.
    Same old, worn-out tactic.
    A lot like them, actually.
    But then, that’s all they’ve got.
    If it wasn’t they’d recommend somebody who “can win.”
    And there isn’t anybody. There are all the same losers from before. Romney, aka White Obama or Huckabee aka “I LOVES Joy Behar!” One of these Ronulans? Yeah, we saw how that worked out already.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

  23. democratsarefascists says:

    @Axel Edgren:
    “I still have to marvel”…rant…”Obama likes arugula? Make a moose/mayo sammich – that’ll show him”….rant….elitist derision, etc.

    Yeah, keep it up, Sparky.

    That’s exactly the arrogant talk that allowed us to castrate you in November.

    Totally tone deaf.

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  24. anjin-san says:

    >That’s exactly the arrogant talk that allowed us to castrate you in November.

    Clearly, somebody was out of town during the lame duck session :)

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

  25. An Interested Party says:

    “Democrats who knew down in their squirmy, yellow guts that he’d win.”

    Most Democrats, liberals, progressives, and anyone else who wants the president to win reelection hold as their greatest hope that Sarah Palin will run and win the GOP nomination, as they all know deep down in their guts, whatever color said guts are, that she will most definitely lose…

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

  26. Louis Wheeler says:

    “Mr. Wheeler — I don’t beg Palin to run because she has no idea who I am and would not bother to listen to me if I somehow managed to gain her attention — why would she? “

    You brand yourself as a Leftist, wr. I was speaking of the Professional Leftists in the Media who are so dismissive of Sarah. I was saying that their argument doesn’t hold water, because we know what their motives are.

    “So I am free to express my contempt for this carny huckster without fear that I will be dissuading her from destroying the Republican party by running.”

    You are free to go to hell so far as I am concerned. Who we, on the right, nominate for president is a private matter. It is no one’s business who we chose. You can say anything you wish, but why should we listen? As I said, it is far too soon to gage the response of likely voters to her. Let’s talk again around May of next year.

    “If I gain admittance to her circle of advisors, I’ll be sure to start pretending I think she should run.”

    Everyone knows the Left’s only talent is duplicity. They have neither knowledge, good economics, nor workable plans. We have no idea how messed up the country will be in two years; we may desperately need a woman on a white horse.

    Obama seems intent on ruling via regulations, wr. Even if the Republican House of Representatives blocks that, Actions have consequences. What Obama has already done could sabotage the dollar; QE2 is troubling. Monetizing the deficit could produce massive price inflation.

    I’m prepared for that eventuality, but I doubt that you are. If Obama merely repeats Jimmy Carter’s stagflation, I’ll earn a half million. If we have a hyperinflation, no doubt, you’ll be on a soup line, but I’ll be just fine.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

  27. anjin-san says:

    One thing is certain, Palin supporters are among the most unlikeable group of folks I have ever run across. Nasty pieces of work fueled by unfocused rage and a persecution complex. Yuck.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 1 Thumb down 0

  28. Louis Wheeler says:

    “I still have to marvel at the “But the left fears her!” argument for GOP supporters. It reveals a complete alienation of your opponent –“

    Axel, how else, but fear, can you explain the hysteria, irrationality and the flagrant lies against Sarah Palin when she was nominated for VP? The Left went bonkers. It was like nothing in American politics since the 1800s.

    “. It’s a complete surrender to your enemy’s initiative – rather than actually have a mind of your own you try to create a negative of your enemy.”

    Not at all, Axel. Knowing that your opponent is irrational makes him easier to defeat; Reality, itself, will defeat him. Of course, he will never hear anything you say, but he’s not important. He has no heart, nor mind, to win over. The vital thing is that ordinary people on the sidelines are watching and will judge who is trustworthy.

    “The left likes trees and electing people with a modicum of genuine intelligence and knowledge? Cut the trees down and turn them into posters for the Palin/Gingrich campaign!”

    We farm trees, Axel; They are a renewable resource. They tend to be well taken care of when they are on private lands. There is no need to worship trees any more than it is to worship Wheat. Obama made extensive use of posters, so why not us? Are you proposing Censorship?

    “This has interesting possibilities – imagine if Obama went out in public and expressed his disapproval of smashing your gonads with a mallet.”

    I would applaud his support of my privates. I have no inordinate fear of mallets wielded by Metro-sexuals, though. Do you have an Army to hold me down? Are you sure you are not bringing a mallet to a gun fight?

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

  29. wr says:

    Wow, this Wheeler guy has it all. He’s got it all figured out financially so that he’ll take down half a mil while we stupid lefties are in bread lines. He knows the secret motives of the left. And he threatens violence against people he will never meet in his life, while bragging about what a tough fighter he is.

    I’m astonished, and yet troubled. Is it possible that he is nothing more than a computer program designed to mimic every cliched response of the nutso right?

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

  30. wr says:

    Oh, wait, he forgot to say he used to be a liberal until 9/11 showed him that the only thing that mattered in life was the size of his balls while he sent other people off to die. I guess he’s real…

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

  31. Louis Wheeler says:

    “One thing is certain, Palin supporters are among the most unlikeable group of folks I have ever run across.”

    Why should we pander to you, anjin-san? Why would we want to be likable to people who want to steal our money and freedom?

    “Nasty pieces of work fueled by unfocused rage and a persecution complex. “

    There is nothing unfocused about me; nor am I vengeful. The Left can only achieve its goals by destroying Kulaks like me, since I will never be your slave. I will kill you, first.

    This is not a persecution complex, either, since that implies that I am in no danger from you on the Left. I’ve read too much history to believe that. Che Guevara would have people like me in front of a firing squad. But I promise you, I won’t kill you any sooner that I have to. You can even have the first shot, since you probably despise guns and are a poor shot. I’m not.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 1

  32. Louis Wheeler says:

    “Wow, this Wheeler guy has it all. He’s got it all figured out financially so that he’ll take down half a mil while we stupid lefties are in bread lines. “

    To be forewarned is to be forearmed. History repeats itself, wr. The people who read history can make a killing from governmental stupidity, because bureaucrats and politicians are so predictable. Markets are not.

    I’m just making a bet on the future and we all make those. You are betting on a Social Democratic paradise which I believe is a chimera. People who try to eat chimera starve.

    The study of economics determines events, not me. The repeat of the Jimmy Carter’s stagflation is what George Soros is promoting through his Opens Society Institute and the Tides Foundation. Of course, he uses different words than stagflation. He wants for there to be an “orderly decline of the dollar.” My words for that are, “That he wants a stagnant economy where there is high unemployment, high price inflation and high interest rates.” George Soros has begun to buy Gold by the metric ton. Neither George, nor I, will be substantially harmed by the coming events, but they will be quite scary. George Soros’ dupes will starve. But this will be good for them; the ones which survive might learn how to think.

    “He knows the secret motives of the left. “

    There is nothing secret about the Left’s motivations. All you need do is go to the University and resist the indoctrination. It helps to be Christian.

    “And he threatens violence against people he will never meet in his life, while bragging about what a tough fighter he is.”

    I threaten no one; reality will destroy you, not me. I merely act in self defense. I’m in good shape for a 68 year old, but I don’t consider myself tough. But, I am not alone. We Conservatives out number you Leftists, almost three to one. And you tend not to have marketable skills in an emergency. You don’t know how to boil water.

    “I’m astonished, and yet troubled. Is it possible that he is nothing more than a computer program designed to mimic every cliched response of the nutso right?”

    I must apologize. It was foolish of me to respond to your arrogance and bad manners.

    Are you so insular that you have never been confronted by a principled debating opponent? Or is it that you are so indoctrinated and politically correct that you don’t know how to construct a case? Hence, anyone who can think and argue a case must be dismissed as spouting noise. The fault lies in your inability to hear, not in my ability to speak.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

  33. anjin-san says:

    > not in my ability to speak.

    Yes, but when you speak, you are a sock puppet with Glenn Beck’s hand up your ass. Not very dignified for a grown man.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 1 Thumb down 0

  34. An Interested Party says:

    There’s nothing worse than some anonymous, faceless entity bragging about what he has or what he’ll earn or what he’s capable of on a comments thread of a blog…I mean, really, who, exactly, is supposed to be impressed…

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

  35. anjin-san says:

    > Why would we want to be likable to people

    Oh, I don’t think you are unlikeable to people like me, I just think you are unlikeable in general. I was in the nightclub business for many years, I am a pretty good judge of people.

    I am a little curious, where did you get the idea I am some sort of Chekist? There is a good chance I am a far more successful capitalist than you are.

    As for guns, I have a number of them, have been shooting for 40+ years and am an excellent shot. I particularly like my Baretta 92F (with 15 round magazine). A beautiful weapon. I need to get some rosewood grips for it.

    At any rate, you seem to be a typical right wing idiot who fantasizes about killing Americans who dare to assert an opinion which differs from yours. Pretty much a dime a dozen.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 1 Thumb down 0

  36. Louis Wheeler says:

    “Oh, wait, he forgot to say he used to be a liberal until 9/11 showed him that the only thing that mattered in life was the size of his balls while he sent other people off to die. I guess he’s real…”

    Are you talking about me? It seems unlikely.

    First, I went off to fight in Vietnam. Protecting America from its enemies is a worthy goal. You metro-sexuals don’t have to balls to be in combat. Are you proud of your cowardice?

    Second, I was a member of the Democrat Party until 1976. I voted for Jimmy Carter. His administration made me reexamine my beliefs. I was a “Scoop Jackson” type Democrat . There was no place in the Democrat Party, because I believed in a strong national defense and open markets. I voted Libertarian for decades. It wasn’t until 2002 that I register Republican.

    I believe both political Parties are corrupt and self serving. The Leadership of both Parties have been co opted by the Progressives. I am a TEA Party member. I believe that the Democrat Party is too corrupted to be reformed, but the Republican Party leadership must be replaced by TEA Party people. This will be no easy task, since we will be forced to dispose of many RINO’s.

    Meanwhile, we must de-liberalize the government. We must throw away every institution and practice erected in the last century by the Left.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

  37. anjin-san says:

    > t was like nothing in American politics since the 1800s.

    In reality, the venom directed at the Clinton’s by the right in the 90’s probably exceeded anything thrown Palin’s way.

    Well, one thing is obvious, Louie Louie is a legend. In his own mind. I’m done with this idiot. He makes JT look like a Dale Carnagie instructor.

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  38. Louis Wheeler says:

    “Yes, but when you speak, you are a sock puppet with Glenn Beck’s hand up your ass. Not very dignified for a grown man.”

    You know nothing about me. I’m a survivor, anjin-san. I don’t care about dignity. My highest value is truth.

    If you disagree with me, then make a good case. So far, your arguments have been puerile.

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  39. anjin-san says:

    > My highest value is truth.

    This is coming from someone who assumed I “despise” guns (love ‘em) and can’t shoot.

    Sorry fella, life’s too short to spend any more on you. The truth is, you are dull as dirt.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

  40. Louis Wheeler says:

    “In reality, the venom directed at the Clinton’s by the right in the 90′s probably exceeded anything thrown Palin’s way.”

    Please go back and study the campaigns of the 1800s before you make an utter fool of yourself. They were truly vile and disgusting campaigns. Some of the politicians of the time were artists of the insult.

    It is clear that you are wearing rose colored glasses. You obviously have no memory of Sarah’s campaign, or you believed every insult which was uttered. None of those claims and accusations have been born out, but I have no interest in rehashing this with someone who is not intellectually honest.

    Clinton was an admitted liar. He took a plea bargain and was disbarred. Only a sophist would disagree that this was a guilty plea.

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  41. anjin-san says:

    > Please go back and study the campaigns of the 1800s before you make an utter fool of yourself.

    Umm. I did not mention the campaigns of the 1800’s, and they are not relevant to my comment, which is firmly rooted in the last 18 years. Exactly what kind of drugs are you taking?

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 1 Thumb down 0

  42. anjin-san says:

    Well, after this little descent into the living hell that is the world of Palinites, I need a mental health break. An Iron & Wine record and some ginsing tea should do the trick.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

  43. Louis Wheeler says:

    “This is coming from someone who assumed I “despise” guns (love ‘em) and can’t shoot.”

    Yes, I assumed you were atypical Leftist. This is why I inserted the word “probably” in case I was wrong. You have my apology for jumping to a conclusion. You are not as insipid as you appeared.“

    “Sorry fella, life’s too short to spend any more on you. The truth is, you are dull as dirt.”

    Please, run away as quickly.as possible. You are no fun. You can’t argue worth a damn.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

  44. Louis Wheeler says:

    “> Please go back and study the campaigns of the 1800s before you make an utter fool of yourself.
    Umm. I did not mention the campaigns of the 1800′s, and they are not relevant to my comment, which is firmly rooted in the last 18 years. “

    And history didn’t begin until after you are born, right. You are very proud of your ignorance. You are grounded in nothing, because you know no history and are certain to repeat the mistakes of the past.

    You don’t even know the right questions to ask. How can you be sure that your teachers weren’t lying to you?

    “Exactly what kind of drugs are you taking?”

    I take Vitamins, Aspirin, Thyroid hormone and steroids for cholesterol. I use no mind altering drugs, cigarettes or alcohol. Hey, I was offered Pot in Vietnam and didn’t smoke it.

    I don’t believe your condition can be blamed on anything but Public Education. They indoctrinated you well to be biased and ignorant.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

  45. anjin-san says:

    > And history didn’t begin until after you are born, right.

    Ummm, dipwad? I picked up on your reference to Kulaks, no? Guess you are too busy ranting to catch nuances like that.

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  46. anjin-san says:

    Oh, and the correct Santayana quote is “Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it”. If you knew that he was a Harvard man you probably would not reference him.

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  47. Louis Wheeler says:

    “> Why would we want to be likable to people

    Oh, I don’t think you are unlikeable to people like me, I just think you are unlikeable in general. I was in the nightclub business for many years, I am a pretty good judge of people.”

    We are inside an argument; that is often unpleasant. I’m a pussycat when I don’t have my dander up. I never saw any cordiality from you.

    “I am a little curious, where did you get the idea I am some sort of Chekist?”

    No, I have no checklist. What I wanted was a good discussion and a logical case from you. I wanted you to tell me why I was wrong. What I got was spin and insults.

    I don’t care if Sarah Palin runs for office. She is doing a fine job as a firebrand. She drives the Left into distraction. She is an Avatar of traditional American frontier values; she is our exemplar in the Culture wars. On many different levels she proves that the Democrat party is a fraud; that it no longer represents the common man. She is an independent business woman, a self made politician, a faithful Christian, a forgiving person, a good wife in an equal marriage and a good mother. Before the New Left took over in the late 60s, most Democrats valued such characteristics.

    So far as I can see, her only mistake was in being too trusting of the Media. By attacking Sarah so harshly, the Media proved that were in Obama’s pocket. That was useful for the public to learn.

    “There is a good chance I am a far more successful capitalist than you are.”

    I’m not a capitalist; I’m a working man; I’m a retired engineer. The major beneficiary of Capitalism is the consumer, not business, capital or labor. Each conspired with the government to take the power of the purse away from the consumer and to restrict competition. We are in Fascist country now and both parties put us there.

    I’ve had to reexamine my values and to keep only what works. I’ve studied Socialism and I believe it always fails. It’s failing now.

    “At any rate, you seem to be a typical right wing idiot who fantasizes about killing Americans who dare to assert an opinion which differs from yours. “

    I don’t care if you disagree with me. Prove your case; Make your argument; Let me tear it down; Make a rebuttal. Don’t whine that I’m not treating you with respect. Threaten me and you get threats back.

    Don’t think that you have a right to dispose of my life, liberty and property, nilly willy, for the common good. I am not yours or the government’s slave. I am a citizen of the united States; the government works for me. And when it no longer provides for justice and the rule of law by erecting a tyranny on the people, then it is the right of the people to reform the government. The best way is through the ballot box, but if that fails, then constitutional remedies such as a Constitutional Convention are necessary.

    If Obama refuses to yield power, then he will have a revolt on his hands. We are getting close to make or break time: we will become a Social Democracy, as Obama wants, or we will return to being a Constitutionally limited Republic. The outcome is unclear. And people are likely to get killed in the process.

    “Pretty much a dime a dozen.”

    Yes, we Conservatives vastly out number you Leftist. But, America is in a political realignment. It is not clear to me that either party will survive the next ten years. The American Republic is in question. Obama is trying to transform us into something unrecognizable — unAmerican.

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  48. Louis Wheeler says:

    Let me restate my case.

    This poll was meaningless because the election is too far away. Sarah is not yet entered the race and she has no opponents to poll against. It smacked of an Ad Hominem attack. Who cares if Alaskans no longer view her favorably?

    I also said that events may change how people look at Sarah. My study of free market economics says that our economy is not in recovery. The government has been fiddling with the figures to make it seem so. Every change the administration wants increases our peril.

    We are experiencing a series of bubbles, all of which are caused by the easy money policies of the FED. The Housing market bubble, the stock market collapse, the financial meltdown and the personal disposable income bubble have burst and are still dropping. The fall needn’t be steady. We can have minor corrections, before these markets fall again.The Housing market is leading the way down.

    We still have three other bubbles that must burst before the markets can reset from all the monetary inflation. The Government and the Fed have many market mechanisms, but we don’t know if they will work. Our Financial systems are built on trust and that is in short supply.

    It seems likely now that the Bond market will burst for States and Cities. Next, The dollar will burst as its value drops dramatically in foreign exchange. It is unclear how far the dollar will drop. It could go to 10 percent of its current price or it could become worthless. What is driving this, now, is distrust of Quantitive Easing number two.

    Individuals are bailing out of treasuries while the Federal Reserve Bank and its captive institutions are the only ones buying. Panic has not, yet, set in, but it is not clear what will happen next. What happens if someone, who holds a large number of treasures, decides to bail out of them in a hurry? That could create a run on the currency. But, no one knows how quickly or soon it will happen. It could take years or the house of cards could fall apart tomorrow.

    If the Dollar collapses, then the government has no means of gaining credit. It can no longer pay the interest on its bonds, so it must repudiate them. The era of big government, then, is over, because it has no credit. The government can only fund what it has taxes to pay for. Obama could not navigate such a scenario, but Sarah Palin could. Why? Because she will do the hard things. She won’t go looking for a poll to tell her to do the easy things. Problems are never solved by doing what is easy and popular. We have earned our pain by acting stupidly.

    I also questioned the motives of the people making the poll. Was the poll honest? If not, what were they trying to prove? Why were they using a poll to lower Sarah’s popularity? That smacked of fear to me.

    Why did they think that people who knows what she stands for would be influenced? We Conservatives are not easily swayed. You have to give us a good argument and prove your case. We will not take your word for anything.

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  49. Louis Wheeler says:

    “Oh, and the correct Santayana quote is “Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it”. If you knew that he was a Harvard man you probably would not reference him.”

    Yes, I knew Santayana was a Socialist, too. I did not give him credit, because this sentiment has been expressed many times throughout the millennia. Also, This statement is misleading. It has a hidden flaw because of the mental reservation of its speaker.

    Santayana failed to apply his statement to Socialism. He could not say that Socialism would continually fail, but it has failed wherever it has been tried.

    There is a good reason why Santayana could not be realistic. It has to do with G.W.F. Hegel’s definition of history. Hegel was one if the founders of Communisms and he had a very strange view of history — almost as though it was a God. History was alive and it could validate social and economic beliefs. Those who would not surrender to Political Correctness were damned. This was Anti-scientific. Socialism, thus, is a quasi-religion — a dogma.

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  50. Louis Wheeler says:

    “> And history didn’t begin until after you are born, right.

    Ummm, dipwad? I picked up on your reference to Kulaks, no? Guess you are too busy ranting to catch nuances like that.”

    I was making a point that went over your head. Part of my family were Russian peasants. They were destroyed by collectivism and had to flee to the West. It was a way of saying that I identify with the common man, not the elites. I am no plutocrat. I am a common man who resists being ruled by authoritarians. Obama is an authoritarian. Sarah Palin is not.

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  51. anjin-san says:

    > No, I have no checklist

    In other words, you don’t know what a “Chekist” was and how they relate to Kulaks. You might want to give a little more thought to what is going over who’s head…

    > I never saw any cordiality from you.

    Kind of laughable consider you were talking about killing me.

    > By attacking Sarah so harshly

    What newspapers do you read? Harsh indeed. Shocking, really.

    > Threaten me and you get threats back.

    That is a pretty serious charge. Please show were I threatened you.

    > Don’t think that you have a right to dispose of my life, liberty and property

    Please show were I said I did

    > Part of my family were Russian peasants. They were destroyed by collectivism

    So? My family came from coal mining country in France. It was sort of a right wing dream, a few people owned pretty much everything. My grandfather almost diid in the mines, the poverty was so bad 5 of his siblings did not reach age 18. collectivism had nothing to do with their misery, quite the opposite.

    > It was a way of saying that I identify with the common man, not the elites.

    Goody for you. I have earned a living washing dishes. Now I am an executive for a Fortune 500 company. I identify with both, which gives me a somewhat more informed view of the world.

    > Who cares if Alaskans no longer view her favorably?

    They know here best. When the people who know you best don’t like you, it is quite revealing.

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  52. anjin-san says:

    BTW, your concern about maintaining cordial discourse seems very one sided:

    > You are free to go to hell so far as I am concerned.

    Where exactly did WR insult you? He referred to you as “Mr. Wheeler” and was simply expressing his first amendment rights in remarks about a politician he does not like. You told him to go to hell. AFTER that, he replied to your nastiness in kind.

    Do you have anything to offer besides warmed over Beck, Rand and the well developed victim complex that all Palin supporters seem so well equipped with?

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  53. Louis Wheeler says:

    “There’s nothing worse than some anonymous, faceless entity bragging about what he has or what he’ll earn or what he’s capable of on a comments thread of a blog…I mean, really, who, exactly, is supposed to be impressed…”

    I’m not sure who this is referenced to.

    If it is to me, then perhaps, I should explain.

    I‘m not bragging; I’m stating facts as I see them. I’m 68 years old; I gave up comparing cocks long ago. I believe that the next three years will be hard. I have done every thing I can to ameliorate that pain. If I escape hardship when the rest of the country is experience it, then a new danger arrives — envy. I have prepared to take advantage of the pain that the Obama administration will cause us. If, I become wealthy, then I become a target. I am not wealthy now and most people have resources to make more money than me, if they knew what to do.

    I don’t want to become like the Jews after the German hyperinflation of 1923. Some prominent jews became quite wealthy, even though most jews suffered with the German people. Hitler used resentment and envy against the jews as a justification for the Holocaust. I’d just as soon not have to leave the US.

    Dangerous times are coming. This also gives us opportunities. The Progressives have been bending us toward a Socialist State for over a hundred years. It has been almost impossible for me to explain to loved ones of the peril we are in. I know some of the hyper inflations have been violent, either from a breakdown in civil authority or from a tyranny imposed from above. I am a quiet, peaceful man; I have no desire to be rash. But, I will defend my life and property against all comers. These are serious times and I am a serious man. I know exactly how far I will bend.

    Most of you are not serious people. You have not thought through to the consequences of frightening times, It is only natural that you think me extreme. I am dealing with a reality which you must deal with, too. But, you will not have the advantage of time or resources, because you have not prepared.

    I write about this, in the hope that one or two of you will investigate the possibility of a currency collapse before it happens. It only cost me a little time. There is plenty of links if you just google the word — hyperinflation.

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  54. An Interested Party says:

    “Most of you are not serious people.”

    With all due respect, you are projecting with this statement…I mean, you have presented a fantasy homily about Sarah Palin, implied that we have socialism going on in this country, that the president is supposedly transforming the country into something “unAmerican”, that he is supposedly an authoritarian, and, to top it all off, you seem to think that our current situation is very similar to Germany’s just before the Nazis came to power…tell me, do you believe the president is the new Hitler? You should really examine yourself far more closely before you accuse anyone else of being unserious…

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  55. wr says:

    Anjin — I hate to say this, but I’m pretty sure that Louis is a troll, a slightly less amusing version of Triumph. Read his messages — not only does he parrot every Beckism, not only is he buying Glenn Beck gold, but he is also a former Democrat, a former soldier, the offspring of Russian peasants — he is whatever the turn of the conversation needs him to be. Now he’s on to Obama as Hitler, he’s got the semi-coherent pseudo-historical references, and that insanely pompous writing style. His next message will no doubt include the word “methinks.”

    I guess we could all believe that he’s a 68 year-old Vietnam vet survivalist, stockpiling his guns and gold while drooling over Palin. But really…

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  56. Louis Wheeler says:

    “In other words, you don’t know what a “Chekist” was and how they relate to Kulaks. You might want to give a little more thought to what is going over who’s head…”

    Sure, I do. I just assumed a spelling error. Sorry, that was my mistake.

    “> I never saw any cordiality from you.

    Kind of laughable consider you were talking about killing me.”

    I’ve had to mentally prepare for the hard times ahead. Perhaps, I am a bit bloody minded. The Left are always making veiled threats.

    “What newspapers do you read?

    All of them. They are on the web. At least a third of my sources are from Leftist venues. You have to know what the enemy is doing and what lies they are spouting.

    “That is a pretty serious charge. Please show were I threatened you.”

    Implied threats, using the government as your agent, are still threats. Leftists believe that the government can do anything with us. Do you disagree? Do you believe that the Constitution limits federal authority? Most Leftist do not. They just expect that their interests will prevail; that they will be the whip hand. And that the Constitution is a “Living Document” which can be distorted into anything they want. There is no end to their power and authority. I disagree.

    ” Part of my family were Russian peasants. They were destroyed by collectivism

    So? My family came from coal mining country in France. It was sort of a right wing dream, a few people owned pretty much everything. “

    No, your ancestors were the victim of authoritarianism. Conservatives oppose to both authoritarianism and communism. Authoritarianism has nothing to do with what created America.

    I suggest that you read Alexis de Tocqueville’s, “Democracy in America.” French and American cultures are completely different. Americans were free, even as British colonials. France was never free. Its people are not now, but Americans are not free either. We live in a Fascist country run by the Progressives of both parties.

    “My grandfather almost diid in the mines, the poverty was so bad 5 of his siblings did not reach age 18. collectivism had nothing to do with their misery, quite the opposite.”

    “Many workers turned to communism to fight back against authoritarianism. But, communism was no solution; it was merely a change of masters. People were not allowed to be free. The Liberal tradition died out in France by the late 1790s. The French Revolution was reactionary, not liberating.

    “> It was a way of saying that I identify with the common man, not the elites.

    Goody for you. I have earned a living washing dishes. Now I am an executive for a Fortune 500 company. I identify with both, which gives me a somewhat more informed view of the world.”

    Don’t break your arm patting yourself on the back. The difference between us is not our origins. It is how we would use the government.

    I want the government out of my life. I want it to stop interfering in the economy. I am as opposed to Big Business as I am to Big Labor and Big Government. I am not in favor of a Business / Government relationship. That is not free enterprise: it is crony capitalism.

    I am not less informed; I am differently informed. I was never part of the corruption, as you seem to be.

    “> Who cares if Alaskans no longer view her favorably?

    They know here best. When the people who know you best don’t like you, it is quite revealing.”

    Sarah belongs to American ow. There are enough Conservatives in the lower 48 to elect her. Besides, I doubt the validity of the poll.

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  57. Louis Wheeler says:

    “Do you have anything to offer besides warmed over Beck, Rand and the well developed victim complex that all Palin supporters seem so well equipped with?”

    Sure, It’s called freedom, Constitutionally limited government and the rule of law. It is the traditional American values. But, you don’t want to know anything about that, do you?

    You clearly don’t know anything about Glenn Beck or Ayn Rand. You can’t argue against what they are saying, so you just hurl insults.

    Conservatives are not victims; we are self defensive, though. We fight the authoritarians like George III and Barack Obama.

    Victim mongering is a trait of the left, not the right.

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  58. Louis Wheeler says:

    ““Most of you are not serious people.”

    With all due respect, you are projecting with this statement…”

    The definition I am using for serious is ” worrying because of possible danger or risk; not slight or negligible.”

    It’s my view that most people, even on the right, are not, yet, serious. Hard times lie ahead. Privation will become common.

    I see this in terms of a world wide hyper inflationary depression. I don’t want this to happen, but the laws of economics say it is inescapable, although the debacle can take several forms. I have been planning for years and I doubt I am ready. How could you be when you are ignorant of these facts?

    “I mean, you have presented a fantasy homily about Sarah Palin, implied that we have socialism going on in this country, that the president is supposedly transforming the country into something “unAmerican”, that he is supposedly an authoritarian, and, to top it all off, you seem to think that our current situation is very similar to Germany’s just before the Nazis came to power…tell me, do you believe the president is the new Hitler? “

    No, Obama is not as competent as Hitler, nor is America, Germany. Obama’s political base is much smaller than Hitler’s was. Everything Obama has done in the last two years has moved the US toward the right. He only has his core constituents now and they are less than a quarter of the population.

    Obama is quite clear and ruthless about what he wants. He wants to turn America into a Social Democracy, like the EU. Is this necessarily authoritarian? Sure. Will it duplicate Hitler’s regime? No. Will it be unAmerican? Absolutely.

    Nor is it likely that Obama will succeed. A reaction is taking place.

    “You should really examine yourself far more closely before you accuse anyone else of being unserious…”

    We merely disagree. I am willing to discuss my views. You are not. This makes you unserious.

    If you disagree, make me prove my views. Make me back up them with evidence and logic. The fact that you dismiss my contentions out of hand is what makes you negligent.

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  59. anjin-san says:

    Well Louis, I see you could not back up your claim I threatened you. That makes you a liar.

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  60. anjin-san says:

    > Sure, It’s called freedom, Constitutionally limited government and the rule of law. It is the traditional American values. But, you don’t want to know anything about that, do you?

    Right. Just like I hate guns. Just like I don’t know any history. You move from one ignorance based assumption to the next. The constant is the ignorance.

    My take is that after Palin’s rocky performance in the mid terms, the smarter folks started moving on. Perhaps they will find a way to take their ideas and add some real value for the GOP, this country badly needs two parties based on ideas, not dogma.

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  61. democratsarefascists says:

    “Palin’s rocky performance in the mid terms.”

    Hilarious spin, but it’s a FAIL.

    The rocky performance was Michael Steele’s.
    If not for him, Palin would’ve been credited with a string of victories the lefties would find very hard to explain.

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  62. anjin-san says:

    > Hilarious spin, but it’s a FAIL.

    Yea, joe miller, christine o’donnell – high water marks indeed for the tea party. as a democrat, I am grateful to palin for her help in keeping the senate under our control. of course steele is yet another clown holding an important place in gop politics, but that is another story.

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  63. An Interested Party says:

    “I want the government out of my life.”

    You are a senior citizen, correct? I assume you are prepared to give up collecting Social Security and using Medicare? I mean, if you really want the government out of your life…

    “If not for him, Palin would’ve been credited with a string of victories the lefties would find very hard to explain.”

    Christine O’Donnell, Joe Miller, Sharron Angle, Carly Fiorina…yes, very hard to explain…

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  64. Pug says:

    Victim mongering is a trait of the left, not the right.

    Down in Texas we call that bullshit.

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  65. anjin-san says:

    > You clearly don’t know anything about Glenn Beck or Ayn Rand.

    Question for you (or any other tea party type) Who was the hero of Atlas Shrugged?

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  66. Louis Wheeler says:

    “Well Louis, I see you could not back up your claim I threatened you. “

    Then consider it a friendly warning.

    “That makes you a liar.”

    No, it makes me human. Human beings make mistakes; some times we get carried away.

    Did you directly threaten me? No. Do your Leftist goals threaten my life, liberty and property? Absolutely.

    Did I directly threaten you? No. I promised NOT to kill you, until necessary. When would it be necessary? When it is in self defense.

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  67. Louis Wheeler says:

    “My take is that after Palin’s rocky performance in the mid terms, the smarter folks started moving on. “

    What rocky performance? All, but three of her recommendations won.

    What smarter people are you talking about? The Left always hated her. The Country Club Republicans, who control the leadership, are threatened by her, too. But what does that matter, she is not running for office yet. I think she is doing a fine job as a firebrand.

    “Perhaps they will find a way to take their ideas and add some real value for the GOP, this country badly needs two parties based on ideas, not dogma.”

    The Democrats have no ideas; they just want power and money to buy votes woth. Take that from an ex-Democrat.

    Note: neither of us knows much about the other. You seem to think that I am some sort of plutocrat, rather than being a working man all my life.

    Please don’t be offended if I assume you have the general characteristics of the New Left. If you don’t have their characteristics, then why are you running with them?

    Yes, the country needs two parties based on ideas. But, the Democrat Party’s ideas are Socialistic or Progressive and they always fail by either destroying freedom, wasting money and interfering in the citizen’s peaceful pursuit of happiness.

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  68. Louis Wheeler says:

    ““I want the government out of my life.”

    You are a senior citizen, correct? I assume you are prepared to give up collecting Social Security and using Medicare? I mean, if you really want the government out of your life…”

    Yes, I want Social Security and Medicare to fail. Neither Social Security and Medicare will last. They were never designed to be anything but welfare. Neither is sustainable. They would bankrupt the nation eventually, but there are other catastrophes ahead of them in line. A hyperinflation will likely take us down first.

    It would have been preferable if these two had failed in my youth, before they started taking 17+% of my wages and blowing it. Right now, I am exploiting Social Security in order to get my money back. I need not defend these programs, because I am taking the taxpayer’s money. I won’t sell my virtue so easily.

    Do you think that Social Security and the other social programs will survive a collapse of the dollar? No way. I am making preparations to leave Social Security behind. I just don’t know where I can escape to.

    I’m hoping that the Obama administration will be able to “kick the can down the road” and avoid a hyper inflationary depression for twenty years. But, this is pure selfishness on my part. The stories I’ve read about Germany’s, Argentina’s and Chile’s hyperinflation are scary. I don’t want to live though that. The problem is that the hyperinflation will hit the whole world since the dollar is the world’s reserve currency.

    I will make a half million from a much milder Stagflation, like Jimmy Carter had. As a rich man, I will die of natural causes, from too much wine, women and song, before the hyperinflation hits. You won’t have to pay for my support.

    ““If not for him, Palin would’ve been credited with a string of victories the lefties would find very hard to explain.”

    Christine O’Donnell, Joe Miller, Sharron Angle, Carly Fiorina…yes, very hard to explain…”

    Have I said that Sarah Palin was perfect? Or that every one of the people she recommended would win? No. Not even the Republicans were expecting most of her recommendations to win. Three losses out of twenty recommendations is a good batting average. But, this is irrelevant to the intent of this thread.

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  69. Louis Wheeler says:

    “> You clearly don’t know anything about Glenn Beck or Ayn Rand.

    Question for you (or any other tea party type) Who was the hero of Atlas Shrugged?”

    Was there a single hero in Atlas Shrugged? Was it John Galt? Or Dagny Taggert? Or Henry Rearden?˜ All had their struggles to overcome.

    It certainly wasn’t Wesley Mouch or Balph Eubank.

    But, we were talking about your deficiencies, not mine. Can you cogently explain Beck and Rand’s arguments? I think not. You need to be able to state an opponent’s points, before you start attacking them. Otherwise, you sound like a fool.

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  70. anjin-san says:

    > Was it John Galt? Or Dagny Taggert? Or Henry Rearden?˜

    Well those would be the obvious picks. But they are incorrect. Clearly you did not understand the book, which BTW I have probably read 7 or 8 times. It remains a favorite despite the heavy handed dogma.

    > You need to be able to state an opponent’s points, before you start attacking them

    When did I attack Rand? I am a fan of her work. I simply pointed out that you are not doing any original thinking just serving up warmed over Beck and Rand. Poorly understood Rand at that.

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  71. Louis Wheeler says:

    “> Was it John Galt? Or Dagny Taggert? Or Henry Rearden?˜

    Well those would be the obvious picks. But they are incorrect. Clearly you did not understand the book, which BTW I have probably read 7 or 8 times. It remains a favorite despite the heavy handed dogma.”

    Make a case on who you think the hero was. Let me tear your opinion apart. Not that I care much.

    Ayn Rand is not a favorite of mine. I read her works many times, but not lately. Her objectivist philosophy is too reflexively Anti-Soviet to persuade me. Mankind does not live by bread, alone. She and the communists think that they do; there is no Soviet Economic Man.

    Since there are infinite ways of being wrong, promulgating the opposite of Communism, as Ayn Rand does, is no way to find truth. Besides, I am a Christian and Ayn Rand is an Atheist. Atheism is a false religion, since there is no logical way to prove that God does not exist. I don’t have to prove that he does.

    The reason that Ayn Rand was important was that she had no competition back in the 40s. The Progressives and Socialists had won over the literary market. Ayn Rand did a fine job of attacking these false religions. She, and Rose Wilder Lane, started the Libertarian movement. I can honor them for that.

    Do we Conservatives need Ayn Rand now? No, there are many fine opponents of socialism in literature.

    May I suggest “The Last Centurian” by John Ringo? It’s action adventure, but it has an interesting plot: A military unit must fight its way back home, after It was abandoned in Iraq by a liberal president intent on ending America’s role as the world’s policeman. It combines hard times due to governmental mismanagement and a financial crisis along with a Pandemic during a world wide famine produced by a mini-Ice age which destroys crops.

    The background mirrors the outcome of many current trends. Anyone who has studied history can see similar patterns crop up when a civilization is in retreat. The government has no resources to fight one trend, let alone many.

    “> You need to be able to state an opponent’s points, before you start attacking them

    When did I attack Rand? “

    I was not talking about Rand; I don’t give a damn about Rand. I was talking about Sarah Palin and the Conservatives. Do you remember what this thread was about?

    ” I simply pointed out that you are not doing any original thinking just serving up warmed over Beck and Rand. ”

    I wanted you to prove that you knew what Beck and Rand’s positions were. You failed.

    Get out of attack mode and prove a case. I don’t give a damn about your opinions. What can you prove? Nothing.

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  72. Louis Wheeler says:

    “Anjin — I hate to say this, but I’m pretty sure that Louis is a troll, a slightly less amusing version of Triumph. Read his messages — not only does he parrot every Beckism, not only is he buying Glenn Beck gold, but he is also a former Democrat, a former soldier, the offspring of Russian peasants — he is whatever the turn of the conversation needs him to be. Now he’s on to Obama as Hitler, he’s got the semi-coherent pseudo-historical references, and that insanely pompous writing style. His next message will no doubt include the word “methinks.”

    I guess we could all believe that he’s a 68 year-old Vietnam vet survivalist, stockpiling his guns and gold while drooling over Palin. But really…”

    I am not intentionally confrontational, wr; I am merely replying to your positions. I have staked out my points which you do not attack. I doubt that the Poll is valid; it seems like propaganda. Coming events may alter Palin’s popularity and it is too soon to make predictions. She is useful to Conservatives where she is now. It is none of the Left’s business who we Conservatives run for President.

    You and anjin-san insist on attacking side issues. I believe that the Progressives are leading America to ruin, but I believed that in the 1970s, long before I ever heard about Glenn Beck. You could say that Beck agrees with me, but not all the way. I was first; Glenn Beck is a late convert.

    We will see soon enough who is right about the economy. The Economy is not recovering, but I don’t know how desperate events will become. I am investing in the future which I see. So far, with Silver at $30.17 an ounce this morning, I made a hundred and 17 per cent profit in about a year. No one can be sure of what the future holds. If I am wrong, I have positioned myself not to be hurt much. If I am right, I won’t starve and I’ll make a ton of money. It will cause me great anxiety watching you Leftist starve, but I’m not good enough a Christian to want to keep you alive.

    Obama is not Hitler, but he will lead America to ruin just like Hitler did Germany. Obama’s beliefs aren’t very different from Hitler’s; Both want an overpowering state.

    I don’t drool over Sarah Palin. I think she is doing a fine job now as a firebrand. I’m not sure she should run. I have no idea if she can win the presidency. But, I love how she ties the Left in knots, though.

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  73. An Interested Party says:

    “But, I love how she ties the Left in knots, though.”

    Actually, it would appear the “the Left” points at her and laughs more than anything else…it is the establishment GOP and people like Doug and James who seem to be tied in knots by her, as she has the possibility of being the Republican nominee for president in 2012 and losing the GOP’s chance to take the White House…it’s understandable though how you love fantasies…I mean, you actually think that the president wants an “overpowering state” just like Hitler did…

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  74. Louis Wheeler says:

    “Actually, it would appear the “the Left” points at her and laughs more than anything else…”

    You Leftists are merely following Saul Alinsky’s dictum that ridicule is the most powerful tool to use against Conservatives. Also, it is you being moralizing or judgmental by holding us to an absurd interpretation of Christian values. We conservatives, often, have a good laugh about those. You are such bone heads about religion.

    Saul Alinsky is far out of date now; we conservatives read his book “Rules for Radicals” to find out how to sabotage you leftists. No Conservative gives a damn what a Progressive or Communist says. Consider the source; They are all liars and thieves.

    “it is the establishment GOP and people like Doug and James who seem to be tied in knots by her,”

    Yes, there is an internal fight between the TEA Party and the Country Club Republican leadership. I believe the TEA Party will win, because we vote and have money. Mike Steel did a piss poor job at the NRC of electing and supporting candidates. All this means is that we must field TEA Party candidates to replace the current RINOs. Rome wasn’t built in a day, or torn down.

    The establishment says that our TEA Party candidates won’t win, but history shows that whenever we Conservatives offer the Public a clear alternative to the Democrats, we prevail. Obama’s high handed Leftist policies are gaining us many independent and moderate voters.

    “as she has the possibility of being the Republican nominee for president in 2012 and losing the GOP’s chance to take the White House…”

    It’s too soon to say. We have some primaries to get through. The Electorate has a voice in this process.

    As I said, I think Sarah is doing a fine job where she is. I don’t like any of the front runners; they are all Country Club Republicans. Not even Mike Pence or Chris Christy are well known enough to win.

    “it’s understandable though how you love fantasies…I mean, you actually think that the president wants an “overpowering state” just like Hitler did…”

    Obama has repeatedly said that he wants America to become like Europe. Since the European Union is a unelected tyranny which has never been ratified by its member states, what else could it be but an overpowering state?

    I never said that Obama’s regime would take a NAZI form. What we have in America is a mixed economy and society. It is a mixture of crony capitalism, Communism and Fascism. There is very little freedom; Bill Gates has stated that he could have never founded Microsoft under current conditions. I expect even less freedom as Obama grabs more power to rule us. He uses the persistent poor economy as an excuse to grab power.

    A massive struggle will take place over the next two years. The only real question is whether Obama will give up authority if the Republicans win in 2012. Will he stage an emergency in order proclaim himself President for Life? The Second American Revolution has begun if he does that.

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