Paul Ryan’s Marathon Fish Story

In a radio interview last week, Paul Ryan claimed to have run a sub-3 hour marathon. He did no such thing.

In a radio interview last week, Paul Ryan claimed to have run a sub-3 hour marathon. He did no such thing.

Here’s the relevant part of the interview with conservative host Hugh Hewitt a few days back:

HH: That’s okay. Hey, in high school, what did you do in high school? Were you a speech and debate guy? Were you a bandie? What were you?

PR: No, I was student government and athletics, honor society, you know, that kind of thing. I was kind of a combination. I was class president my junior year, I was the school board rep my senior year. I lettered in varsity, you know, my first year in high school, mostly soccer and track. I was a distance runner and a soccer player. So kind of well-rounded. I can’t, I can play a cowbell. That’s about it for instruments.

HH: Are you still running?

PR: Yeah, I hurt a disc in my back, so I don’t run marathons anymore. I just run ten miles or yes.

HH: But you did run marathons at some point?

PR: Yeah, but I can’t do it anymore, because my back is just not that great.

HH: I’ve just gotta ask, what’s your personal best?

PR: Under three, high twos. I had a two hour and fifty-something.

HH: Holy smokes. All right, now you go down to Miami University…

PR: I was fast when I was younger, yeah.

That’s a really fast marathon. As Jim Henley joked, “Paul Ryan ran a sub 3 hour marathon?? He must be Kenyan. Check his birth certificate!” The gang at Runners World was apparently a little skeptical and looked into it.

Runner’s World has been unable to find any marathon results by Ryan. Requests for more information from Ryan’s Washington and Wisconsin offices, and from the Romney-Ryan campaign, have so far gone unanswered.

If Ryan has broken 3:00, he’d be the fastest marathoner to be on a national ticket. John Edwards has run 3:30; George W. Bush has run 3:44; Sarah Palin has run 3:59; and Al Gore has run 4:58.

Ryan isn’t the first aspirant for national office to make a hard-to-verify claim about having run a marathon. John Kerry came under scrutiny when he ran for president in 2004 for saying that he’d run the Boston Marathon.

The November 2004 issue of Runner’s World reported that Kerry had run Boston in the 1970s but gave no supporting details. ESPN looked into the claim and wound up concluding “there’s no official record of his feat, and his campaign did not provide further details despite repeated inquiries.”

In an e-mail to Runner’s World last night, Tom Derderian, author of Boston Marathon, said, “It is very hard to prove a negative, but in doing my research I read every account in every newspaper about the Boston Marathon. I would have seen and noted that a US Senator ran.”

Ryan’s campaign wrote back to, er, walk back the story:

A spokesman for the Romney-Ryan campaign e-mailed Runner’s World today to say Ryan ran Grandma’s Marathon in Duluth, Minnesota, while a college student in 1991.

When asked about Ryan’s finishing time, the spokesman said, “His comments on the [radio] show were the best of his recollection.”

Ryan’s name does not show up in the 1991 race results provided by Grandma’s. Runner’s World checked 11 years of results for Grandma’s Marathon, from 1988 through 1998, and found a finisher in the 1990 race by the name of Paul D. Ryan, 20, of Minneapolis.

Ryan’s middle name is Davis, and he was 20 in 1990. The finishing time listed was 4 hours, 1 minute and 25 seconds.

We are awaiting confirmation from the Ryan camp that the vice presidential nominee is the Paul D. Ryan listed in the race results – and, if he is, whether he ran any other marathons faster than 4:01:25.

Later, they added:

A spokesman confirmed late Friday that the Republican vice presidential candidate has run one marathon. That was the 1990 Grandma’s Marathon in Duluth, Minnesota, where Ryan, then 20, is listed as having finished in 4 hours, 1 minute, and 25 seconds.

Ryan had said in a radio interview last week that his personal best was “Under three, high twos. I had a two hour and fifty-something.”

In a statement issued to Runner’s World by a spokesman Friday night, Ryan said of his marathon experience:

“The race was more than 20 years ago, but my brother Tobin—who ran Boston last year—reminds me that he is the owner of the fastest marathon in the family and has never himself ran a sub-three. If I were to do any rounding, it would certainly be to four hours, not three. He gave me a good ribbing over this at dinner tonight.”

I’ve never been the athlete Ryan was and sure as hell am not in the kind of shape he is now. Yet, I can tell you my fastest 2-mile  (12:09) and 10k (39:40) times–both from longer ago than Ryan’s marathon. So, no, I don’t believe his recollection was off by more than an hour.  A two hour and fifty-something time would easily have qualified Ryan to run in the Boston Marathon; a 4 hour and 1 minute time is too slow for a 64-year-old—and just barely qualifies a 50-year-old woman. No way in hell he makes that mistake.

This is a classic case of what I years ago dubbed an “Al Gore lie,” after the reflexive tendency of the then-vice president to issue obviously untrue statements for no apparent reason. Politicians lie on the campaign trail all the time, of course. And, as the fictional Dr. House reminds us, everybody lies to cover up embarrassing truths or otherwise make themselves look better. But Gore, whose personal biography was surely impressive enough on its own merits, was constantly telling little stories that wouldn’t have been particularly useful to him even if they were true. That Gore had gone to Harvard and roomed with future movie star Tommy Lee Jones was an interesting story as it was; for no apparent reason, Gore stretched it so that he and Tipper were the inspiration for “Love Story,” forcing the author to say it wasn’t so.

Similarly, Paul Ryan is in fantastic shape for a 42-year-old man. His fitness is legendary and has already been the subject of fawning press stories since his announcement as Mitt Romney’s running mate. Who is it out there who’s sitting on the fence thinking to himself, “Sure, Ryan leads Hill people in grueling P90X workouts; but I’m not sure I can vote for him to be Romney’s understudy without evidence he’s run a sub-3 hour marathon”?  Nobody, that’s who.

Is this going to sink his campaign? I doubt it. While John Kerry lost in 2004, I don’t think his marathon fib was the reason; indeed, I don’t recall having heard the story before. But this is yet another whiskey tango foxtrot moment for a campaign that doesn’t need any more of them.

FILED UNDER: General
James Joyner
About James Joyner
James Joyner is a Security Studies professor at Marine Corps University's Command and Staff College and a nonresident senior fellow at the Scowcroft Center for Strategy and Security at the Atlantic Council. He's a former Army officer and Desert Storm vet. Views expressed here are his own. Follow James on Twitter @DrJJoyner.

Comments

  1. PJ says:

    Add it to lies in his acceptance speech and we have a pattern.
    In April, when he rejected Objectivism, did he lie then too?

  2. I think the Gore and Kerry stories did paint them, as “pols.” To the extent that Ryan needed to be “not an ordinary politician” this does him in.

  3. Jim Henley says:

    I’d love to take credit for coming up with the joke, but that credit goes to commenter Wheat Farmer on Runner’s World. I’m happy to take credit for finding the joke, though.

  4. Scott O says:

    If you use dynamic scoring 4 hours and 1 minute comes in at 2 hours and 50 something

  5. mantis says:

    Like Kerry’s marathon lie, this does not matter.

    The many, many lies Ryan told in his speech about policy, history, and the president do matter. The near constant lies from Mitt Romney and the campaign about nearly every topic matter. Lying about a marathon? Meh. Whatever.

  6. Me Me Me says:

    And to think that Ryan is supposed to be the Republican who is good at numbers.

    His marathon story adds up in exactly the same way that his budget “plan” does – meaning, not at all.

  7. James Joyner says:

    @Jim Henley: In the new media, that’s practically the same thing. And, certainly, if you find THREE jokes someone else wrote and put a clever headline on it, they’re yours outright.

  8. al-Ameda says:

    Wow, he just can’t help himself, right?

    I will say this in his defense – compared to the lies he put out there in his convention speech this one is relatively minor.

  9. I think what the “budget lies matter, running does not” people miss is that the unconnected voter has a hard time parsing budget lies. Who’s telling the truth? No one knows.

    On the other hand, a sports lie is simple, uncomplicated, unnecessary, and clear.

  10. Kerry Holt says:

    What does this really matter at all? Does it change anything? NO, all politicians lie. Its a sad fact, but a true fact. And something this inconsequential, why does it matter? In fairness, now write an article on the lies that the current administration has told. I’m sure there are plenty of them to report on, many just as silly as this marathon time, and many that MUCH more important. Why cant we focus on what is truly important, preserving this great NATION, preserving our families and our way of life, and preserving our economy, and protecting this Nation from its enemies.

  11. Me Me Me says:

    Kerry, how does giving Ryan a pass on a blatant and ridiculous lie help “preserve” your family and your way of life?

  12. @Kerry Holt:

    I’m sorry but the administration is not the one on the defensive. The Romney Ryan campaign has been pushing some Medicare stories, about $716 billion “cut” from Medicare. When the fact-checkers caught them on it, they said fact-checking didn’t matter.

    In that environment, when a campaign depends on ignoring fact checking, Ryan gets fact checked on his running.

    Some people not sure about the Medicare thing should now think twice.

  13. Muffler says:

    The ease at which Ryan lies is the problem. If he lies badly then that is even a greater issue as it shows he is pathological. He had to know that sub 3 running would be world class and people notice that kind of capability. He did not flinch.

  14. In re @Kerry Holt:
    It’s always fun when an author on OTB gets called an Obama-shill (or whatever), especially if it’s James Joyner.

  15. grumpy realist says:

    If Ryan lies this easily about stuff that doesn’t matter, why should we trust him to not lie about things that do matter?

    Falsus in uno, falsus in totus.

    (Totus is a 4th declension noun, right?)

  16. lankyloo says:

    Perfect picture James!

  17. Jeremy R says:

    @James Joyner

    … constantly telling little stories that wouldn’t have been particularly useful to him even if they were true.

    Romney has this affliction too, much to the chagrin of his staffers:

    http://blog.thephoenix.com/BLOGS/talkingpolitics/archive/2012/04/19/romney-s-fenway-fib.aspx

    If you haven’t seen the brilliant Woody Allen film, Zelig is so desperate to fit in, he physically transforms to match the people he is around at a given time.

    Romney is helplessly addicted to this type of lying, often trivial, sometimes not. I’ve witnessed it myself many times, and former Romney aides have expressed their frustration about it to me.

    And a couple examples:

    Earlier this week Red Sox season-ticket holder Mitt Romney gave a national network interview at Fenway Park. This led someone to bring to my attention that Romney, who was governor at the time, was there at Fenway Park for the historic championship-clinching Game 4 of the 2004 World Series. Or at least, he told an Air Force pilot he was:

    When he told me he was Massachusett’s governor, I politely asked him to leave the flight deck, declaring the cockpit off limits to all Red Sox fans. He laughed and made a few cracks my way, regarding the Yanks, and we hit it off pretty well. I asked him if he was at Fenway when the Sox finally won the World Series, and with a huge boyish grin he replied, “Yes I was.”

    No, he wasn’t. I could go to a lot of trouble proving to you that Romney was actually in New Hampshire campaigning for George W. Bush that day, but it doesn’t really matter because — as every New Englander has been screaming while reading this post — Game 4 was played at Busch Stadium in St. Louis, Missouri.

    and:

    Suddenly, a heavyset man wearing a bright-orange cap entered the room. “Mr. Romney,” he called out. “Eric Orff—I’m a hunter.” It was a potentially awkward moment. Earlier this year, Romney claimed that he’d “been a hunter pretty much all my life.” A few days later, he said in a statement, “I’ve hunted small game numerous times.” Four days after that, Romney told W. Gardner Selby, of the Austin American-Statesman, “Any description of my being a hunter is an overstatement of capability.”

    Still, he couldn’t resist. “You’re a hunter?” he said to Orff. “Well, same here. Good to see ya.”

  18. george says:

    I agree that there’s no way he’d forget it if he’d run a sub 3-hour marathon … the long hours on the road training for that kind of run would make it impossible.

    On the other hand, I also agree it doesn’t matter – just another (and minor) example of “politicians lie”.

    There’s plenty of reasons not to vote Romney-Ryan. This isn’t one of them.

    BTW, considering their age and occupation, those aren’t bad times for Edwards, Bush and Palin. Palin’s especially surprised me, though in retrospect I don’t know why. Guess my lack of regard for her in general colored my expectation of what she might do athletically.

  19. Fausta says:

    So…I’m supposed to care about guys bragging over their workouts?

  20. @Fausta:

    … I don’t know, should I be lying more?

  21. Me Me Me says:

    @Fausta: Fausta has presented this thread’s most sophisticated variant of IOKIYAR thus far.

  22. Rick Almeida says:

    @Kerry Holt:

    In fairness, now write an article on the lies that the current administration has told.

    Why don’t you give us some examples?

  23. Jay_Dubbs says:

    When you are first be introduced to the American public, first impressions matter. Between the GM plant story in his speech and the marathon story it is easy for the average American, who had no idea who Paul Ryan was before a month ago, to conclude that he has a problem with the truth. Tough to get past that.

  24. jukeboxgrad says:

    There are liars and there are pathological liars. Many politicians are in the former category. Only a few are in the latter. That few includes both Mitt and Ryan. They both lie even when there is little or nothing to gain by doing so. That’s a key sign that the lying is pathological.

    Putting pathological liars into high office is a big, big mistake.

    Another important example of Ryan lying hasn’t been mentioned:

    Presented With Letters, Ryan Admits Requesting Stimulus Cash … After repeated denials, Paul Ryan has admitted he requested stimulus cash even after sharply criticizing the program.

  25. ElizaJane says:

    I am a serious non-fan of Paul Ryan but this just doesn’t count as a “lie.” It counts as not remembering exactly what you achieved 20-odd years ago. It’s like asking me what my GRE scores were — I think I remember, kind of, but I could easily give you a number that was off. Maybe not off by Ryan’s order of magnitude, but since I’m still in academia I know what scores count as “pretty good but not superhuman” so I know what the range has to be. Maybe Ryan is just not constantly confronted with marathon numbers against which to remember his own.

    Anyway, this is much ado about nothing, in my books. Let’s concentrate on the very calculated political lies that come out of his mouth on a daily basis.

  26. Fausta says:

    @Me Me Me:
    Only if I gave a damn about Kerry or Gore’s bragging.

  27. Jr says:

    Oh well, this isn’t as bad as Mitt lying about hunting a few years ago.

  28. Ebenezer_Arvigenius says:

    In all honesty I don’t think that “No way in hell he makes that mistake.” He doesn’t seem to be too interested in running as a sport.

    In high school I won the school championship once. Today I have no idea what time I made back then. If I was pressed on air I might feel the need to state a plausible number. Given what I know about running today that number would very likely be way off.

    To me this looks more like a crowd pleaser effect than a deliberate falsehood.

  29. Jed says:

    @ElizaJane: Yeah. For quite some time I actually would try to recall minutiae that people would ask about, sometimes straining and knowing that the thing I came up with couldn’t possibly be correct.

    Fortunately I’ve grown to the point where I can say “I don’t remember” or “I don’t know” without feeling too defensive about it. Kind of wish talking heads and politicians could reach the same realization. And, when shown to be incorrect, say “I misremembered” or “I was wrong” without clumsy reasoning and circumlocutions designed to show that they were correct all along. It’s a waste of brainpower and sets one up for pratfalls.

  30. MarkedMan says:

    I’m a runner and damn proud I finished two marathons. No, I don’t remember the exact time, but they were solidly north of five hours. I could no more ‘remember’ it to someone tat I broke five hours than I could remember I won the Nobel prize for physics. Paul Ryan ran a 4 hour marathon – dang respectable – but ‘mis-remembering’ it as 2:50+? That’s like bowling a 175 and remembering it as 275. That’s like shooting ten over par, with a couple of mulligan’s, and remembering it as two under, on a masters level course, from the pro tees with all rules rigorously enforced. That’s like throwing a key tackle on the game winning drive and remembering it as making a diving catch in the end zone to win the game.

  31. anjin-san says:

    this just doesn’t count as a “lie.” It counts as not remembering exactly what you achieved 20-odd years ago.

    Please. Guys do not forget this stuff. My best year as a high school athlete was 38 years ago. I remember exactly what I accomplished, and what I did not. I can tell you how many tackels I made in some of the games.

  32. jukeboxgrad says:

    ElizaJane:

    I am a serious non-fan of Paul Ryan but this just doesn’t count as a “lie.” It counts as not remembering exactly what you achieved 20-odd years ago.

    Tom Maguire is one of the most extreme right-wing hacks you could ever hope to find. His credentials in that regard are impeccable. This is what he said this morning:

    Paul Ryan, A Man Of Dubious Character … So Paul Ryan was inflating his own athletic prowess when he misremembered running a sub-3 hour marathon? I don’t buy the notion that he simply forgot – a sub 3 is a notably good result, whereas 4 hours (his actual time) is, well, nearly pedestrian. I say this having run five marathons, with times ranging from 3:24 to 3:42.

  33. Andy says:

    Well, it’s nice to see OTB covering the serious issues. Slow news day?

  34. jukeboxgrad says:

    Krugman:

    In itself, this wouldn’t be a story. But you have to put it in the context of the fact that for years Ryan has been lying through his teeth about his budget proposals, and obviously so.

    If you go back to my original piece, more than two years ago, I was already pointing out that his alleged deficit reduction came from unspecified offsets to his tax increases and huge but unspecified cuts in discretionary spending, that the actual described policies would increase the budget gap. But the response from the Beltway was that it can’t be true, because he comes across as such an honest, sincere fellow. So little things indicating that this character judgment was all wrong do matter.

    In that earlier article, over two years ago, Krugman identified Ryan as a “flimlam man” and a ‘charlatan.’ He said “the Ryan plan is a fraud.” Krugman figured out years ago what a lot of other people just started noticing when they listened to Ryan’s speech the other night: he’s a highly skilled and pathological liar, just like Mitt.

    ===================
    andy:

    Well, it’s nice to see OTB covering the serious issues. Slow news day?

    Someone else who thinks character doesn’t matter. A perfect Republican. But I bet you think Clinton lying about a blowjob was a ‘serious issue,’ right?

  35. Andy says:

    @jukeboxgrad:

    Someone else who thinks character doesn’t matter. A perfect Republican. But I bet you think Clinton lying about a blowjob was a ‘serious issue,’ right?

    Here’s a tip – maybe you should take comments at face value and not make a bunch of assumptions about what you imagine other people’s views and ideology are.

  36. michael reynolds says:

    Lyin’ Ryan. What else is new. Here’s a guy who was a devoted, fanatical acolyte of Ayn Rand until he “discovered” she was an atheist about a year ago. Discovering that Ayn Rand is an atheist is like “discovering” the Pope is Catholic.

    He’s a serial liar, perfectly in tune with Mitt Romney.

    He’s not “serious,” he’s not “brilliant,” or any of the other GOP puffery — all of which used to be applied to Newt Gingrich. He’s a creepy little liar with a philosophy most people outgrow by their junior year.

  37. PJ says:

    How about this as an explanation for the lying, Ryan, being a fitness freak, is rather angry about the fact that his hurt disc means that he will never be able to run faster than the 4:01:25 he did, so he lies and tells people a time he thinks he would have been able to do if he hadn’t been injured.

    Also, don’t think a hero from a Ayn Rand novel would do it so slow as 4:01:25.
    Only moochers and looters do.

  38. @PJ:

    An Ayn Rand hero would do ultras, and only when no one is watching.

  39. Socrates says:

    This is my favorite recent joke about lying.

    Romney’s speech: “We all wanted President Obama to succeed.”

    Jon Stewart, last night: “Bull f***ing sh*t!”

  40. jukeboxgrad says:

    andy:

    Here’s a tip – maybe you should take comments at face value and not make a bunch of assumptions about what you imagine other people’s views and ideology are.

    Here’s a tip – maybe you should answer the question I asked. My sentence that you’re whining about ended with a question mark. I notice that you haven’t answered the question. People who duck questions shouldn’t be surprised when others make assumptions about them.

  41. Andy says:

    @jukeboxgrad:

    You didn’t simply ask a question. You stated that I think “character doesn’t matter” as if it were a fact and then insinuated that I’m a “perfect Republican.” It’s at that point you ask a question phrased in the form of an accusation and structured as if you already know the answer. Well, you, quite obviously, don’t know jack shit about me and I see no reason to answer your little “question” given you couldn’t bother to ask it honestly, nor without ad hominem editorializing.

    But here’s a little info for you: I’m not a Republican. Never have been. I’m not a Democrat either. My affiliation is anti-partisan and I’m a man without a party. So, in the future, please don’t think you can lecture me or anyone else and deem yourself an expert on who they are or what they believe. Fair enough?

  42. Scott says:

    As the Daily Mail explains:

    “‘Barack Obama: The Story’ by David Maraniss catalogues dozens of instances in which Obama deviated significantly from the truth in his book ‘Dreams from My Father: A Story of Race and Inheritance’. The 641-page book punctures the carefully-crafted narrative of Obama’s life.”

    It’s almost as if the President of the United States turned himself into a multi-millionaire by defrauding the buyers of his book.

    But the important thing to remember is that Paul Ryan exaggerated his marathon time. Got it.

  43. Me Me Me says:

    @Scott: Wow Scott, that is some comparison you’ve got there. On the one hand, you’ve got what an British tabloid says about what a minor author says about marginal details in Obama’s autobiography.

    On the other hand, you’ve got Paul Ryan undeniably simply flat out lying.

    And you choose to apply the word “fraud” to Obama but let Ryan skate with a simple “exaggeration”.

  44. Ed, Watertown MA says:

    I hit 714 home runs in the Major Leagues before Hank Aaron!

    Oops! My bad. It was only 7 home runs and it was in Little League.

    I guess I just msremembered since the records are so close. It’s a mistake anyone could have made, right?

  45. Eric Florack says:

    This bit of investigative hutzpah is being brought to you by the same people that refuse to investigate Oh, Bummer’s college transcripts. Forgive me if I’m less than impressed

  46. Tsar Nicholas says:

    If I were a liberal journalist (redundant, I know) the first question I’d ask Ryan during an interview is whether “Marathon Man” is his favorite movie. The second question for him would be whether ‘Running on Empty” is his favorite tune. Oh, wait, my bad, Ryan’s into heavy metal, so I’d ask him if “Run to the Hills” is his favorite Iron Maiden track. I wouldn’t let up. Is “The Running Man” your favorite short story by Stephen King? So on, so forth.

    In any case, fluff interviews with talk radio shows are not depositions and if you’re a politician and you’re not lying then you simply ain’t trying.

  47. EddieInCA says:

    @ElizaJane:

    I am a serious non-fan of Paul Ryan but this just doesn’t count as a “lie.” It counts as not remembering exactly what you achieved 20-odd years ago.

    Sorry, Eliza, and anyone else who thinks you can forget your best marathon time. You can’t. Period.

    I’ve run nine. I have friends who have run one. Others who have run 2, 3, 4, and one friend who has run 23.

    Every single one of them can tell you their best Marathon time to the second. If you’re never run a full marathon, you have no idea how much it takes over your life. Not the run itself, but the training.

    You get up at 5am to run 10 miles before work – sometimes in the dark and rain.
    You leave work at lunch time to squeeze in five miles because you didn’t get enough miles in the previous day.
    You forsake parties on Saturday nights because you have a 15-17 mile run Sunday morning with your regular running group.
    You watch everything you eat, and eat more carbs then you’ve ever eaten in your life.
    You get pains, aches, and feel like quitting every long run.

    Then, after 20-40 weeks of this sort of life, you get to run the marathon, and on that glorious day, it’s all worth it.

    At the end, you swear you’ll ever do another one because you hurt so much.

    Then, two weeks later, you can’t wait to do another one.

    No runner EVER forgets his best marathon time. Ever. Paul Ryan was flat out lying.

    My best time was 3:01:15 in Los Angeles in the very early 1990’s.. I missed qualifying for Boston by waiting in line two minutes for a porta-potty at mile 15.

    I also ran 3:31 in Paris in 1994, 3:15 in Long Beach in 1993, and 3:12 in Las Vegas in 1992.

    Is there anyone on this board who has run a marathon who does NOT remember their best time?

  48. Me Me Me says:

    @Eric Florack: Eric, what on earth is the logical connection between Paul Ryan telling a ridiculous blatant lie and Obama’s college transcripts?

  49. raoul says:

    JJ: Concerning your comment on Gore and Love Sstory and other alleged prevarications- it seems to me you are not familiar with Bob Somerby- please go to howhegotthere.blogspot.com

  50. EddieInCA says:

    @Eric Florack:

    Hmmm… You didn’t ask for Romney’s college transcripts.

    Or… John Kerry’s….

    Or.. Bill Clinton’s…

    Or.. Bob Dole’s…

    Or.. Mitt Romney’s…

    Hmmm.. What’s different about Obama that you need his college transcripts? What do you think is there? Why do you answer everything with… “But… But… Obama!!!”

    Weak.

  51. Me Me Me says:

    @Tsar Nicholas: I think that is third time in two days you have argued that Romney and Ryan get a pass for their lies because they are campaigning, not giving depositions.

    So, by your logic, is it the case any lie that a politician tells outside of actually giving a sworn deposition is OK? Or do you pull out this trite bit of phraseology only when you want to give the guy you support a pass?

  52. Rick Almeida says:

    @Eric Florack:

    Please explain to us exactly how one “investigates college transcripts”.

  53. Me Me Me says:

    @EddieInCA:

    Sorry, Eliza, and anyone else who thinks you can forget your best marathon time.

    Note that what Ryan did was lie about his ONLY marathon time. So, in fact, he told two lies: first, the blatant fabrication of his time. Secondly, his assertion that he had run more than one marathon but “had to give it up.

  54. al-Ameda says:

    @Eric Florack: Or as the Romney-Ryan campaign announced shortly after Ryan was caught in several lies, they were not going to be deterred by fact-checking. Now there’s your ‘bummer’

  55. @al-Ameda:

    Fact-checking finished its marathon in 2:55, jumping several sharks in the process.

  56. michael reynolds says:

    @Rick Almeida:
    You ‘investigate’ to discover if Obama is black. Florack – who last I heard was an unemployed truck driver with a blatantly racist blog – seems convinced Obama took his place at Harvard.

  57. Tony W says:

    You guys are so skeptical and mean…. Maybe Ryan retroactively ran a 2:50 marathon – never thought of that, did you?

  58. James Joyner says:

    @Eric Florack: That’s pretty weak. For one thing, what the hell do his college transcripts have to do with, well, anything? For another, he transferred to Columbia University, on of the best schools in the country. You think they didn’t check his transcripts? He graduated there with grades good enough to get into Harvard Law School, one of the top six and probably top two law schools in the country. He was president of their law review. Later, he was, by all accounts, an outstanding teacher at the University of Chicago’s law school, also one of the top six in the country.

    Having a wee bit of familiarity with academe, having earned three degrees and teaching college for a number of years, I have zero question that Barack “Barry” Obama was one hell of a student. Further, all of the anecdotal evidence I’ve collected with my own eyes suggests that he’s incredibly bright, with an exceptional ability to think on his feet.

    On what basis do you believe we need to investigate his transcripts?

  59. Eric Florack says:

    @al-Ameda:

    Several lies?

    You mean about how Obama showed up at the plant at Janesville and told it’s (union) workers the place would be open for 100 years?

    Oh, wait…

  60. Eric Florack says:

    @James Joyner:

    That’s pretty weak. For one thing, what the hell do his college transcripts have to do with, well, anything?

    No more than running a marathon, James. No less, either.

    Look, if the media and the left (but I repeat myself) is valid in it’s pressure on Romney to release his tax records… and they’re willing to ignore the fact that Romney has already released released a number of years…. and willing to back check Ryan on something as minor in the grand scheme as a marathon time, then how is it any less valid for them (and us, for that matter) to pressure Obama to release his transcripts?

    It’s my take that Obama refuses to release his records because he knows he’ll be caught in a lie about his past, thus destroying his re-election chances. You cite hearsay evidence that he was a hellova student. Do the transcripts back that, or challange it? Did he gain admission as a foreign exchange student? That would tend to add fuel to the long standing questions of his citizenship.

  61. anjin-san says:

    Shorter Florack

    Obama is black, so any claim of academic excellence is suspect. Guilty until prover innocent.

    For those that don’t know, Michael is quite correct about Florack’s racist blog. And little bitsy is quite proud of it.

    Florack racist idiot

  62. Jeremy R says:

    @Eric Florack:

    You mean about how Obama showed up at the plant at Janesville and told it’s (union) workers the place would be open for 100 years?

    He never did anything of the sort, even if you’re using Ryan’s BS abridged version of his statement with the middle hacked out. Here’s what he actually said though:

    I believe that if our government is there to support you, and give you the assistance you need to re-tool and make this transition, that this plant will be here for another hundred years

    This is a something Paul Ryan explicitly agreed with — from a letter he wrote in ’08, bemoaning the decision to shutter the plant :
    http://paulryan.house.gov/uploadedfiles/ltr_gm_060308.pdf

    We believe that the Janesville workers would bring the same dedication and effectiveness to a new product line. We recognize that market demand in the automobile industry is changing and that GM intends to adapt to the changing demand to remain a viable company. But rather than closing the Janesville plant, a retooled Janesville GM plant can assist in OM’s efforts to adapt to a changing market. The Janesville workforce is first-rate and the Janesville workers have proven their commitment to GM generation after generation. The Janesville GM workers will be strong partners in a retooled Janesville GM plant.

  63. Brainster says:

    Well, we could talk about Joe Biden’s lies about finishing in the top half of his law school class, about his getting a full-ride academic scholarship, about graduating with three degrees from college, etc. Things that you could not argue were simply mistakes, unlike Ryan’s claim to a sub-3:00:00 marathon.

    If Ryan had run a lot of marathons, I could see the argument that he would not have forgotten his best time. As it is, I’m inclined to give him a pass.

  64. An Interested Party says:

    But the important thing to remember is that Paul Ryan exaggerated his marathon time. Got it.

    Actually the important thing to remember is that Paul Ryan wants to destroy Medicare and that Mitt Romney approves (depending on which day of the week it is) of this…

  65. michael reynolds says:

    @Jeremy R:

    You seem to think Florack cares about facts or logic.

  66. Me Me Me says:

    @Brainster:

    Well, we could talk about Joe Biden’s lies about finishing in the top half of his law school class, about his getting a full-ride academic scholarship, about graduating with three degrees from college, etc.

    My head is spinning. Why do you know all those things about Joe Biden? I’ll type this slowly: because they were big news that was reported in the, you know, news, back when they were, you know, news.

    So now when Ryan makes news, it is also news. Or do you think that the amount of time that is devoted to discussing new news has to be counterbalanced by the same amount of time devoted to discussing old news?

    Things that you could not argue were simply mistakes, unlike Ryan’s claim to a sub-3:00:00 marathon.

    It is simply a mistake if you are a Republican.

    If Ryan had run a lot of marathons, I could see the argument that he would not have forgotten his best time. As it is, I’m inclined to give him a pass.

    Are you also inclined to give him a pass on his second lie – that he had run multiple marathons?

  67. michael reynolds says:

    Making up some story about a race isn’t the issue to me. Everyone embroiders their life a bit around the edges. But here’s a guy who knows everything he says is now being parsed. He tells a lie that he must know will be found out. And as many above have pointed out, he does it for no real gain. And he does it on the heels of an utterly dishonest convention speech. And on top of an utterly dishonest “conversion” from Objectivism to Catholicism.

    There’s embellishing, and then there’s just clueless. He’s already used up his supply of free passes and he’s less than a month into this. That shows me he’s either pathological (as suggested by some above) or he’s immature and not ready for prime time.

    Why are we giving this guy a free pass on the ‘readiness for office’ test? He’s young, he has very narrow experience — no private sector (aside from summers driving the Weinermobile), no academia, no military, no executive, nothing but Congress. College to Congress.

  68. Me Me Me says:

    @Eric Florack: That’s right, Eric, running a marathon has nothing to do with anything.

    Lying about running a marathon does.

  69. Colbert on Paul Ryan’s Misleading GOP Convention Speech

    A bad week to shave an hour off your marathon time.

    “If these men win the election, it validates the strategy.”

  70. Eric Florack says:

    @anjin-san: Oh, please. Race has nothing to do with it. Was Clinton black? Carter? Crying “racist” ain’t getting it done.

    @Jeremy R: Chuck Sweeny: Paul Ryan didn’t lie about Barack Obama GM speech

    Or, perhaps you’d like Obama’s speech?on the matter, where he makes that promise? Don’t tell me he never made that promise. THere it is in black and white.

    @An Interested Party: So, stealing 716 billion USD from medicare, as Obama has, won’t destroy it? Even Obama liked Ryan’s plan, back in 2010, calling it “A serious proposal”. Did he take that back since then? Did he have his fingers crossed?

  71. de stijl says:

    This is the upside to Ryan’s acceptance speech falsehoods – there were enough factually-challenged statements and they were egregious enough, that the political media had to finally declare “Shenanigans!” Hereafter, every Ryan utterance will be fact-checked.

    Once a politician is labelled by the media, they are extremely loathe to counter the label and most stories always mention the reason a pol got tagged with the label. If Kerry is a flip-flopper and McCain is a maverick, it comes up in every frickin’ story that election season. So, basically, it’s “Lyin’ Ryan” from now until November.

    If Ryan is now tagged as a liar, it will come up in every story and every factual assertion that he makes will be fact-checked.

    (BTW, why this same pressure has not come to bear on Romney himself, escapes me entirely. He lies about things large and small all the time — check Steve Benen’s weekly recap. I don’t get it.)

  72. An Interested Party says:

    So, stealing 716 billion USD from medicare, as Obama has, won’t destroy it?

    It’s nice to know that you are as dishonest as Paul Ryan…the money that was moved from Medicare to PPACA is actually going to help seniors, with programs like closing the doughnut hole in the their prescription drug plan…oh and Ryan’s plan is indeed a serious proposal….a serious proposal to destroy Medicare…

  73. anjin-san says:

    @ Florack

    Oh, please. Race has nothing to do with it.

    Of course. Just show us where you have referred to Clinton or Carter as “n**gger” on your blog.

  74. steve says:

    I believe Obama ran a sub 2:40 marathon, but then he is Kenyan.

    Steve

  75. TheDude says:

    Seriously. This is what you post James? After months of tirades about “distractions” in politics? Really? This is what matters?

  76. jukeboxgrad says:

    andy:

    you, quite obviously, don’t know jack shit about me

    I’m pretty sure that what I know exceeds “jack shit.” For example, I know that you have a history here of being evasive (link). So I’m not surprised to find you evasive.

    I see no reason to answer your little “question”

    There are several possible reasons that you’re still ducking my question, and with increasing umbrage, but the most parsimonious reason is that my original assumptions about you are correct.

  77. jukeboxgrad says:

    florack/bithead/buzz buzz:

    This bit of investigative hutzpah

    Speaking of chutzpah, it takes a lot of that to keep showing up here even though you are a known liar (example). Don’t you think it’s time for you to change your name again?

    What a surprise that other liars flock to defend Lyin’ Ryan.

  78. jukeboxgrad says:

    james:

    I have zero question that Barack “Barry” Obama was one hell of a student

    You listed some good reasons, but I’ll add one that you omitted, that I think is important. He achieved magna cum laude at HLS, which means top grades at a top school, under a system of blind grading. That’s why Jim Lindgren, no friend of Obama, said this:

    For Obama to graduate with high honors, even if he had stellar grades in seminars he would have to have done well in blind-graded courses. IMO, that means he is very smart in conventional terms, probably smarter in academic terms than any president of the last 40 years (with the possible exception of Clinton, who did well at Yale, but not as well as Obama did at Harvard) … In traditional academic terms, Obama did better in school than any president in the last 40 years.

    The people whining about his transcripts work hard at refusing to understand this. They also like to pretend that a transcript release is normal, even though no POTUS or major candidate has ever done that. For Bush, Gore and Perry, they were leaked. For Kerry, he released it after he was no longer a candidate.

  79. jukeboxgrad says:

    This is the time Ryan claimed: “Under three, high twos. I had a two hour and fifty-something.” This was his actual time: 4:01:25.

    To put this in perspective, some marathon statistics might be helpful (link), in addition to the numbers James already posted. This is based on “approximately 523,000 marathon finishing times … recorded in the USA in 2011.”

    Average time for all men: 4:26:43
    Average time for men ages 20-24 (Ryan was 20): 4:22:48
    % of men with time 4:00:00 or less: 37.5
    % of men with time 3:00:00 or less: 2.9

    So a man beating 4 hours is doing better than 62.5% of all men. A man beating 3 hours is doing better than 97.1% of all men. So that’s why Hewitt said “holy smokes,” because he knows that beating 3 hours is a big deal. But beating 4 hours (and Ryan didn’t even do that) is not a big deal at all. It’s just a little above average.

    And the problem is not just that Ryan said “under three.” What happens next is also important, because he essentially repeated the lie. This is nicely explained here:

    What’s striking about the exchange is how he responds to Hewitt’s “Holy smokes.” A four-hour marathon, for a twenty-year-old, is not something that elicits a “holy smokes.” It’s entirely average; in fact, for the race that Ryan ran, it was below average. In the marathon in question, he finished in nineteen hundred and ninetieth place, out of just thirty-two hundred and seventy-seven male runners. (A 2:55 would have had him at a hundred and thirtieth.) But Hewitt’s reaction didn’t set off any alarm. Instead, Ryan could tell that he had just impressed his host, and he reinforced it, saying “I was fast when I was younger, yeah.”

    This is a key indication that the time he mentioned a moment earlier was not just a slip of the tongue. Here (“I was fast when I was younger”) he is deliberately repeating the lie, because he wasn’t “fast when [he] was younger.” He was just average.

    This is the classic behavior of a narcissistic pathological liar. The pattern is to inflate your achievements, sometimes drastically, for the purpose of gaining admiration. It’s so habitual you do it without thinking about it. (And the habit might be even stronger on a phone call like this, because the listener is not physically present and watching you; possibly the lying is a bit harder when facing a live crowd.) And you get caught sometimes, but you just laugh it off and act like it was an innocent and humorous mistake (“he [Ryan’s brother] gave me a good ribbing over this at dinner tonight”).

    By the way, notice that Ryan at age 20 achieved a time (4:01:25) not as good as what Palin achieved at age 41 (3:59:36). Another clue that his actual time was mediocre.

    And since various people have ignored it, it’s important to repeat what Krugman said:

    In itself, this wouldn’t be a story. But you have to put it in the context of the fact that for years Ryan has been lying through his teeth about his budget proposals, and obviously so.

    The problem is not the marathon lie. The problem is that Ryan is a marathon liar. The marathon lie is just the latest example in his marathon of lies.

  80. jukeboxgrad says:

    me me me:

    his second lie – that he had run multiple marathons

    This is an important point that is largely overlooked. There is this:

    A spokesman confirmed late Friday that the Republican vice presidential candidate has run one marathon.

    Trouble is, Hewitt and Ryan both said “marathons,” plural (and Ryan did it first). He was trying to create the impression that he had run several or many, even though he only ran one.

    Lyin’ Ryan. Given his impressive track record, only a fool would accept any claim he makes unless it can be independently verified. If he tells you what time it is, you better also check your watch.

  81. Eric Florack says:

    @michael reynolds: As usual, you’re wrong.
    Hardly unemployed, I’m a Senior driver, and a driver trainer.

    That after spending 2 years as a systems analyst… until the most recent presidential election…. shortly after which I was on the street looking up where my office used to be, along with the 400+ people I supported.

    In short, I’m one of the many millions of under-employed in the economic mess Obama created.

    At the very least you’d think you could get your facts right. Tehn again, if you did, you’d likely not be speaking up as often, huh?

  82. Me Me Me says:

    @Eric Florack:

    That after spending 2 years as a systems analyst… until the most recent presidential election…. shortly after which I was on the street looking up where my office used to be, along with the 400+ people I supported. In short, I’m one of the many millions of under-employed in the economic mess Obama created.

    How did Obama create the economic mess that occurred before he took office?

  83. Eric Florack says:

    @An Interested Party:

    It’s nice to know that you are as dishonest as Paul Ryan…the money that was moved from Medicare to PPACA is actually going to help seniors, with programs like closing the doughnut hole in the their prescription drug plan…oh and Ryan’s plan is indeed a serious proposal….a serious proposal to destroy Medicare…

    Your dodging, and not very well. The Obama plan destroys Medicare.
    And of course what they’re replacing Medicare with, limits care to seniors…. Death panels, the whole nine yards. Everything the left has denied is in there, turns out to be foundational in Obamacare. It’s the Democrats tossing grandma off the cliff in her wheelchair because keeping her alive will cost of the government too much.

    Why would Dems lie like this? Bob Beckel the other day, noted, in a rare moment of truth, that Democrats always had great history scaring the Hell out of seniors over medicare. He worries it won’t work this time… and with little tidbits like this, he’s quite right; it will not work..The truth.. the left’s worst enemy… is known.

  84. Eric Florack says:

    @anjin-san: And that would have what to do with anything? You’re over-reaching, Anjin. Nothing new with that, I suppose.

  85. pseudonymous in nc says:

    @ElizaJane:

    It counts as not remembering exactly what you achieved 20-odd years ago. It’s like asking me what my GRE scores were

    Except that as others have pointed out, marathon runners remember their times as clearly as they remember their wedding day or the birth of their children. Given the amount of training and effort that goes into them, that’s not too surprising.

    Marathon runners also appear to get quite prickly about people BSing over their times, for the same reason. Those times are about as cut and dried as facts can get, and don’t need flaming garments or animated puppets when judging them. It’s different in degree from fabricating a war record, but it’s not necessarily different in kind.

  86. al-Ameda says:

    @Eric Florack:

    In short, I’m one of the many millions of under-employed in the economic mess Obama created.

    And exactly how did President Obama create the 2008 collapse of the financial and housing markets?

  87. Eric Florack says:

    @al-Ameda: Obama didn’t. THe liberalisjm he subscribes to, did.
    Housing collapsed because of the calculated political move on the part of the left, then headed by BUbba Clinton, to force banks to provide housing lending to people who couldn’t afford it, under the guise of “Fairness”.

  88. Eric Florack says:

    Oh… as to Obamacare vs Medicare, perhaps Paul Ryan can speak to that point?

  89. Me Me Me says:

    @Eric Florack: Housing collapsed because of the calculated political move on the part of the left, then headed by BUbba Clinton, to force banks to provide housing lending to people who couldn’t afford it, under the guise of “Fairness”

    Can you identify for me what legislation the Democrats passed that forced non-bank mortgage companies to make no-doc, cash-out refi’s on McMansions in the far outer suburbs, and on second homes in Florida?

  90. Eric Florack says:

    Oops… typo, above… not 2 years…. 20 years as an SA. My bad.

  91. Eric Florack says:

    @Me Me Me: That’s not where the majority of the traffic went.
    You wouldn’t know this, I suppose, but the place I was working for 10 of that 20 years as an SA was at a major bank, supporting the home equity division. I know this stuff from the inside. I was THERE. The laons to which you refer were a small part of the traffic and a VERY small part of the defaults. The vast majority of the defaults came from the low income people who benefitted from the lowered loan standards.

    The problem, of course started by Carter in 1977. As Wikipedia says…

    The Community Reinvestment Act (CRA, Pub.L. 95-128, title VIII of the Housing and Community Development Act of 1977, 91 Stat. 1147, 12 U.S.C. § 2901 et seq.) is a United States federal law designed to encourage commercial banks and savings associations to help meet the needs of borrowers in all segments of their communities, including low- and moderate-income neighborhoods.[1][2][3] Congress passed the Act in 1977 to reduce discriminatory credit practices against low-income neighborhoods, a practice known as redlining.[4][5]

    As written in 1977 the CRA was fairly innocuousand caused no insurmountable problems, from an economic standpoint. The trouble really began when Bubba and the Democrats in Congress dove in, prior to the 1992 GOP takeover of Congress: (Wikipedia, again)

    During one of the Congressional hearings addressing the proposed changes in 1995, William A. Niskanen, chair of the Cato Institute, criticized both the 1993 and 1994 sets of proposals for political favoritism in allocating credit, for micromanagement by regulators and for the lack of assurances that banks would not be expected to operate at a loss to achieve CRA compliance. He predicted the proposed changes would be very costly to the economy and the banking system in general. Niskanen believed that the primary long term effect would be an artificial contraction of the banking system. Niskanen recommended Congress repeal the Act.[54]

    Funny thing; Turns out he was right.

  92. Me Me Me says:

    @Eric Florack: What a load of rubbish.

    Community Reinvestment Act had nothing to do with subprime crisis

    http://www.businessweek.com/investing/insights/blog/archives/2008/09/community_reinvestment_act_had_nothing_to_do_with_subprime_crisis.html

    The vast majority of crap loans that went tits up were not subject to the CRA because they were made by non-banks.

  93. jukeboxgrad says:

    florack:

    Housing collapsed because of the calculated political move on the part of the left

    Naturally. It probably had something to do with the guy from “the left” who said this (video):

    More and more people own their own homes in America today. Two thirds of all Americans own their homes, but we have a problem because fewer than half of the Hispanics and fewer than half of the African Americans own their home. That’s a home ownership gap, a gap we have to work together to close. By the end of this decade we will increase the number of minority homeowners by at least 5 and ½ million families. And of course one of the larger obstacles to minority home ownership is financing. Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac have committed to provide more money for lenders, they have committed to help meet the shortage of capital for minority homebuyers. Freddie Mac recently began 25 initiatives around the country to dismantle barriers and create greater opportunities for home ownership. One of the programs is designed to help deserving families with bad credit histories to qualify for home ownership loans. You don’t have to have a lousy home for first time homebuyers. You put your mind to it, the low income homebuyer can have just as nice a house as anybody else.

    You might also be thinking of the guy from “the left” who said this:

    Nearly 70 percent of Americans enjoy the satisfaction of owning their own home, and my Administration continues to promote an ownership society where the promise of America reaches all our citizens. The American Dream Downpayment Act of 2003 is helping thousands of low to moderate income and minority families with downpayment and closing costs, which represent the greatest barrier to homeownership. Since 2002, when I announced our goal to help 5.5 million minorities become homeowners by the end of this decade, the rate of minority homeownership has climbed above 50 percent, and more than 2.5 million minority families have become new homeowners. My Administration will continue to provide counseling and assistance for new homebuyers and expand homeownership opportunities for all Americans.

    Sharing some frustration about that guy from “the left” was Sen. Chris Bond (R), who said this (4/08):

    Homeownership appears to be a bigger priority in the administration than affordability and foreclosure… I think the emphasis on homeownership helped to drive the foreclosure crisis we’re now in. . . . All these wonderful ideas . . . didn’t do them any good when we put them in housing they couldn’t afford.

    Yup, I sure can see why you think the problem is “the left.” Your claims are roughly as credible as Ryan’s claims about his “marathons.”

  94. An Interested Party says:

    That after spending 2 years as a systems analyst… until the most recent presidential election…. shortly after which I was on the street looking up where my office used to be, along with the 400+ people I supported.

    In short, I’m one of the many millions of under-employed in the economic mess Obama created.

    So we can add pu$$y to the many other terms to describe you…why not man up and take responsibility for your own problems rather than blaming them on the President…I thought conservatives were supposed to be all about personal responsibility…

    Your dodging, and not very well. The Obama plan destroys Medicare.
    And of course what they’re replacing Medicare with, limits care to seniors…. Death panels, the whole nine yards. Everything the left has denied is in there, turns out to be foundational in Obamacare. It’s the Democrats tossing grandma off the cliff in her wheelchair because keeping her alive will cost of the government too much.

    Doing your Paul Ryan impersonation again, I see…sorry to inform you, but it ain’t working…

  95. anjin-san says:

    You wouldn’t know this, I suppose, but the place I was working for 10 of that 20 years as an SA was at a major bank, supporting the home equity division. I know this stuff from the inside. I was THERE.

    Ah, more of your legendary inside information. I remember 2008, when you spent the days leading up to the election crowing about your special inside information that told you McCain was surging on on his way to a big win. How did that work out for you?

    Yep, you did IT support for a bank. You were pretty much sitting at Bernanke’s elbow.

  96. al-Ameda says:

    @Eric Florack:

    @al-Ameda: Obama didn’t. THe liberalisjm he subscribes to, did.
    Housing collapsed because of the calculated political move on the part of the left, then headed by BUbba Clinton, to force banks to provide housing lending to people who couldn’t afford it, under the guise of “Fairness”.

    And exactly how did the Left (or Liberals, you decide …) force Wall Street to bundle the mortgages into sub-prime derivative investments and sell them to institutional investors around the world?

  97. Eric Florack says:

    Oh, you mean like Citigroup did? You remember Citibank… Who now has Robert Rubin on their staff, alonmg with a host of former Clintonistas? IN looking around, I find…

    We learned yesterday that Peter Orzag, the former White House Budget Director, may be taking a job at Citibank. You remember Citibank, they got $45 billion in a taxpayer bailout. The actual job is unimportant. What is important for Citibank is having a guy on the payroll who can call the White House and they’ll take his call. They guy who replaced him as budget director, Jacob Lew, worked at Citibank from 2006 to 2009.

    How about some more cronies? There is former Treasury Secretary under Clinton, Robert Rubin who became an executive-committee chairman at Citigroup. Treasury still owns 11% of Citi stock. As Obama raked in the campaign cash from Goldman Sachs, we have Timothy Geithner’s replacement as head of the New York Fed, William Dudley, was a former chief economist at Goldman Sachs. Former Democrat senator and Governor Jon Corzine was a previous chairman of Goldman Sachs.

    But don’t worry the Democrats are looking out for the little guy. They ignore Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac in the financial regulations overhaul and hand the bill to the little guy. They bail out GM and Chrysler, turning over the bulk of the company’s ownership to the unions and hand the bill to the little guy. TARP money goes to foreign banks to cover their losses and they hand the bill to the little guy.

    Now, what would these Citibank folks be doing with so many Clintonista on their payroll?

    The big guys can take enormous risks and if they pay off they make enormous profits and personal wealth for their management. But if the risks don’t pay off, do they go out of business? Hardly. They go to the government with dire predictions of a collapse of the economy unless the government steps in and when it does, the bankers get their big bonuses and the little guy gets stuck with the bill.

    Clinton, knowing this, used his influence to get such banks to finance his attempt to buy minority votes. Worked, too… and we’re still dealing with the financial mess he left us with.

    That falls directly at the feet of Bill CLinton.

  98. jukeboxgrad says:

    florack/bithead/buzz buzz, you need to address this:

    You don’t have to have a lousy home for first time homebuyers. You put your mind to it, the low income homebuyer can have just as nice a house as anybody else.

    You also need to explain this lie.

    I can see you’re really busy coming up with new lies, but every now and then you should take a break and clean up a few of your old ones.

  99. jukeboxgrad says:

    Something I didn’t know (link):

    Paul Ryan, mountain man … he has climbed 40 of the state’s 54 peaks over 14,000 feet

    Did he mean to say 30? 10? 0? Hard to tell.

    And he’s too modest to mention it, but he also regularly swims the English Channel.

  100. illaper says:

    If you want to know how sleazy that story on Love Story by Melinda Henneberger
    of NY Times was, check out http://howhegotthere.blogspot.com/ and re-read her
    report closely. (Hint: Why do you think her report is titled “Author of Love Story disputes a Gore Story”, and not “Author of Love Story disputes Gore” ?)

    Gore had heard from reports in Tennessee that Segal had modeled his characters
    after Al and Tipper Gore, according to Karen Tumulty, who actually interviewed
    Al Gore. But those reports were not entirely accurate – Segal had not modeled any
    character after Tipper.

    And Segal *DEFENDED* Gore – he confirmed that Gore was one of the models, and
    he also criticized Time for not reporting clearly that Al Gore was talking about what
    he had heard from reports in Tennessee.

    You are only showing how easily you can be played by NY Times.

  101. al-Ameda says:

    @Eric Florack:
    Thanks for the talking points, it was colorful and pleasantly evasive.

    Yet, again: Please explain how Liberals forced Wall Street to bundle subprime mortgages into derivative investments that were purchased by institutional investors around the world.