Trump Victory Spawns National Freak-Out
Americans are rioting in the streets because they don't like the outcome of a democratic election.
To the surprise and chagrin of many of us, Donald Trump confounded the polls and won the presidency. Protestors are taking to the street all across the land and a movement has started to have California secede from the Union. It’s not a fitting reaction for a Republic.
NYT (“‘Not Our President’: Protests Spread After Donald Trump’s Election“):
Thousands of people across the country marched, shut down highways, burned effigies and shouted angry slogans on Wednesday night to protest the election of Donald J. Trump as president.
The demonstrations, fueled by social media, continued into the early hours of Thursday. The crowds swelled as the night went on but remained mostly peaceful.
Protests were reported in cities as diverse as Dallas and Oakland and included marches in Boston; Chicago; Portland, Ore.; Seattle and Washington and at college campuses in California, Massachusetts and Pennsylvania.
In Oakland alone, the Police Department said, the crowd grew from about 3,000 people at 7 p.m. to 6,000 an hour later. The situation grew tense late Wednesday, with SFGate.com reporting that a group of protesters had started small fires in the street and broken windows. Police officers in riot gear were called in, and at least one officer was injured, according to other local news reports.
It was the second night of protests there, following unruly demonstrations that led to property damage and left at least one person injured shortly after Mr. Trump’s election was announced.
The protests on Wednesday came just hours after Hillary Clinton, in her concession speech, asked supporters to give Mr. Trump a “chance to lead.”
One of the biggest demonstrations was in Los Angeles, where protesters burned a Trump effigy at City Hall and shut down a section of Highway 101. Law enforcement officials were called out to disperse the hundreds of people who swarmed across the multilane freeway.
In New York, crowds converged at Trump Tower, on Fifth Avenue at 56th Street in Midtown Manhattan, where the president-elect lives.
They chanted “Not our president” and “New York hates Trump” and carried signs that said, among other things, “Dump Trump.” Restaurant workers in their uniforms briefly left their posts to cheer on the demonstrators.
The demonstrations forced streets to be closed, snarled traffic and drew a large police presence. They started in separate waves from Union Square and Columbus Circle and snaked their way through Midtown.
USA Today (“Thousands across the USA protest Trump victory“)
Protesters took to the streets Wednesday in at least 10 cities to march against president-elect Donald Trump – and numerous college students and faculty leaders took to social media to announce support groups and even postponed exams.
Protests were underway in Chicago, New York, Los Angeles, Philadelphia, Boston, Washington, D.C., Portland, Ore., St. Paul, Minn. and several other cities. An estimated 2,000 protesters shouted angrily in downtown Seattle, expressing their frustration at the Trump victory over Democrat and former Secretary of State Hillary Rodham Clinton, who won 228 electoral votes to Trump’s 279.
Police in riot gear struggled to hold back scores of protesters in some of the cities as protesters chanted “Not My President” and “No Racist USA.” The protests were mostly peaceful. Seattle police said they were investigating a report of a shooting near the site of the protest in that city, but it may not have involved protesters.
In Los Angeles, protesters poured into the streets near City Hall and torched a giant Trump effigy, the Los Angeles Times reported. Later in the night, hundreds marched onto the busy 101 Freeway which brought the highway to a complete standstill. The California Highway Patrol and the Los Angeles Police Department —who urged protesters to remain lawful and peaceful — responded and were seen leading demonstrators away from the busy highway. At least 13 people were later arrested, LAPD Officer Tony Im told the Los Angeles Times.
In Washington, D.C., hundreds took to the streets carrying signs saying “Nasty Women Fight Back” and “White Males for Equality for All.”
The unrest culminated when two separate anti-Trump demonstrations converged in front of the Trump International Hotel. They chanted and yelled “Impeach Donald Trump” and toward the end yelled at police officers who stood guard at the hotel entrance.
WaPo (“Vigils and protests swell across U.S. in wake of Trump victory“):
Vigils and protests against Donald Trump spread from coast to coast early Thursday as crowds burned effigies of the president-elect, blocked highways and warned of wider backlash — underscoring the difficult task Trump faces in uniting a fractured country.
Despite Hillary Clinton and President Obama urging their backers to accept Trump’s victory and support his transition into power, thousands of demonstrators marched through the streets decrying his crude comments about women and attacks on immigrants.
Protests were reported in cities across the nation, from major metropolitan centers like New York, Chicago and Los Angeles, to smaller cities, such as Richmond and Portland, Ore. Dozens of demonstrators were arrested.
Even cities in red states, such as Atlanta, Dallas and Kansas City, Mo., saw demonstrations.
In Oakland, Calif., two police officers were injured and two patrol cars burned as thousands of protesters took to the streets and chanted slogans against Trump, a police spokeswoman said. A few protesters threw objects at police dressed in riot gear, smashed windows and started small fires in the downtown area.
Business Insider (“People in California are calling for a ‘Calexit‘ from the US in the wake of Trump’s win“):
Calexit” is swiftly taking over social media.
After Donald Trump won the race to the White House, people across California took to social media Tuesday night to call for “Calexit” (or California exit), recalling Brexit, Britain’s push to leave the European Union.
As the topic continues to trend on Twitter, Californians in favor of seceding from the US will gather November 9th on the steps of the capitol in Sacramento.
The group leading the charge, Yes California Independence Campaign, assembled long before Trump’s surprising victory. Its aim is to hold a referendum in 2018 that, if passed, would make California an independent country.
Leaving aside that some of these demonstrations have crossed the line into criminality, the First Amendment guarantees these people the right to protest peacefully. But, at this point, they’re protesting the democratic choices of their fellow citizen, not a prospective candidate for president. That’s not only unseemly, it’s weirdly ironic given the real fears that Trump and has supporters would not accept the legitimate outcome of the vote, whether by rioting at the outcome or by threatening to impeach Clinton for unspecified crimes committed before she even took office.
Yes, Trump was an especially awful candidate, running on a populist message that played to nativist fears. He has made statements that are hard to characterize as anything but racist. He’s a serial misogynist and has been accused of sexual assault by enough women as to make the charges credible. He’s so offensive that many of longtime Republicans, myself included, declared early on that we could not vote for him and many of us even voted for his Democratic opponent despite our own serious misgivings about her character. I’m not happy about the outcome and have serious trepidations as to whether he’s up to the job.
Yet, he won a rather decisive victory in the Electoral College, the only mechanism that matters in our system. So it’s time to effect a peaceful transition of power. President Obama and Mrs. Clinton gave eloquent speeches urging just that.
The president:
Now, it is no secret that the president-elect and I have some pretty significant differences. But remember, eight years ago President Bush and I had some pretty significant differences. But President Bush’s team could not have been more professional or more gracious in making sure we had a smooth transition so that we could hit the ground running.
And one thing you realize quickly in this job is that the presidency and the vice presidency is bigger than any of us. So I have instructed my team to follow the example that President Bush’s team set eight years ago, and work as hard as we can to make sure that this is a successful transition for the president-elect.
Because we are now all rooting for his success in uniting and leading the country. The peaceful transition of power is one of the hallmarks of our democracy. And over the next few months, we are going to show that to the world.
[…]
Now, everybody is sad when their side loses an election, but the day after we have to remember that we’re actually all on one team. This is an intramural scrimmage. We’re not Democrats first. We’re not Republicans first. We are Americans first. We’re patriots first.
We all want what’s best for this country. That’s what I heard in Mr. Trump’s remarks last night. That’s what I heard when I spoke to him directly. And I was heartened by that. That’s what the country needs — a sense of unity, a sense of inclusion, a respect for our institutions, our way of life, rule of law, and respect for each other.
[…]
That’s the way politics works sometimes. We try really hard to persuade people that we’re right and then people vote. And then if we lose, we learn from our mistakes, we do some reflection, we lick our wounds, we brush ourselves off, we get back in the arena, we go at it. We try even harder the next time.
The point though is is that we all go forward with a presumption of good faith in our fellow citizens, because that presumption of good faith is essential to a vibrant and functioning democracy. That’s how this country has moved forward for 240 years. It’s how we’ve pushed boundaries and promoted freedom around the world. That’s how we’ve expanded the rights of our founding to reach all of our citizens. It’s how we have come this far.
Last night, I congratulated Donald Trump and offered to work with him on behalf of our country. I hope that he will be a successful president for all Americans. This is not the outcome we wanted or we worked so hard for and I’m sorry that we did not win this election for the values we share and the vision we hold for our country.
[…]
I know how disappointed you feel because I feel it too, and so do tens of millions of Americans who invested their hopes and dreams in this effort. This is painful and it will be for a long time, but I want you to remember this. Our campaign was never about one person or even one election, it was about the country we love and about building an America that’s hopeful, inclusive and big-hearted.
We have seen that our nation is more deeply divided than we thought. But I still believe in America and I always will. And if you do, then we must accept this result and then look to the future. Donald Trump is going to be our president. We owe him an open mind and the chance to lead.
Our constitutional democracy enshrines the peaceful transfer of power and we don’t just respect that, we cherish it. It also enshrines other things; the rule of law, the principle that we are all equal in rights and dignity, freedom of worship and expression. We respect and cherish these values too and we must defend them.
Now — and let me add, our constitutional democracy demands our participation, not just every four years but all the time. So let’s do all we can to keep advancing the causes and values we all hold dear; making our economy work for everyone not just those at the top, protecting our country and protecting our planet and breaking down all the barriers that hold any American back from achieving their dreams.
Protesting the fact of Trump’s election is un-American. But, as Obama hints and Clinton says more directly, losing an election doesn’t mean giving up trying to persuade your fellow Americans on policy choices or trying to win the next election.
Roughly a quarter of eligible voters cast their ballot for Trump this cycle, as did a similar number for her. The rest voted for a third party candidate or sat the election out altogether. Trump has by no means won a mandate to enact some of the more outrageous policies he seemed to champion on the campaign trail. Senate Democrats, in particular, have every right to force compromises should he try to implement a ban on Muslim immigration, for example.
Further, like Occupy Wall Street and the Tea Party before them, it’s perfectly legitimate for crowds to propose policies or conditions that they find objectionable. But Trump hasn’t even been taken the oath yet. At this point, you’re protesting democracy.
In the Southern Strategy era, every Democratic president, nominee and Congressional leader has had his or her legitimacy doubted, questioned and disputed by the Republicans. Republicans never relent or apologize for their nastiness.
Conservatives are in no position to complain when the other side indulges in a fraction of that behavior. What comes around goes around.
@Pch101: I was a kid during the Carter presidency but don’t recall his legitimacy being questioned, much less riots in the street pursuant to his election. There was certainly a lot of vitriol directed at Bill Clinton, questioning his fitness for office, but I don’t recall rioting in the streets after the election. Obama had the Birther movement, which was disgraceful, but I don’t recall street demonstrations. The Tea Party movement certainly spawned lots of demonstrations but it happened after the inauguration in response to the bailouts and other policy prescriptions, not the mere fact of the election outcome.
I strongly disagree. Peacefully protesting the result of this or any election is perfectly American.
Grouping Occupy Wall Street and the Tea Party together is questionable at best IMO.
With all due respect, Dr. Joyner.
No.
All of you who don’t think it can happen here need to revisit your history books. My wife and I are flying to Costa Rica this weekend to look at some property.
Why?
Because the Trump protests aren’t going to stop any time soon. And as soon as one militarized police department gets trigger happy and shoots a protestor, or a protestor shoots a law enforcement officer, it’s gonna get bad fast. I want an exit strategy. And I can afford one.
I’m old enough to remember Kent State. I’m old enough to remember the SLA and the original Black Panthers. If any of that happens today, it will be a wildly different reaction because there is no trust in any institutions any longer.
Here’s what we know already:
Racist attacks: http://qz.com/833607/us-election-a-rash-of-racist-attacks-have-broken-out-in-the-us-after-donald-trumps-victory/
KKK announcing a victory parade in North Carolina: http://www.snopes.com/2016/11/09/kkk-of-north-carolina-announces-donald-trump-victory-parade/
http://www.inquisitr.com/3700906/kkk-of-north-carolina-confirms-it-will-hold-parade-honoring-electoral-victory-of-donald-trump-on-december-3/
It’s gonna get alot worse before it gets better. The GOP long-term strategy of racism and xenophobia is creating it’s natural result.
Hyperbolic headline, the hallmark of our era. I live in a town where there are some protesters, but it is certainly not a mass movement. My side lost, and I would prefer a few moments of reflection to some pouting. I doubt that any of these people will be traveling to Pennsylvania to knock on doors and engage people before the next election. The mandate will not fall from heaven; do some work if you want results.
In the interest of disclosure, the above paragraph was written by a guy who was very wrong about the last election, and it is possible that I don’t know anything about politics.
@EddieInCA:
Yep. Reaching out to a friend to look at UK schools, looking up property in New Zealand. . .
James doesn’t get it. Not yet.
@James Joyner:
So decades of abuse by Republicans against duly elected leaders with the endless hearings, shutdowns, disruptions and hyperbole that accompany them is a big whatever, but the presence of some pissed off kids in the streets places the fate of the nation in jeopardy. Got it.
I have quite a few Facebook friends who are more progressive than I am. Many of them are truly freaking out right now. I just had a fairly long back and forth with a few of them. Without sounding like a condescending dick, my basic message is that all this energy is being expended about 3 days too late.
One of them posted a link to a list of the “50 far-right proposals Trump will enact” as an explanation for why she’s so upset. Here was my eventual response:
Long screed.
I think this is the time for panic. The GOP is prepared in 2017 to DESTROY the social safety net. Yes, from 2002 – 2006 the GOP controlled everything. The difference is that GWB was still popular for much of the term, the economy appeared to be in good shape, and they didn’t care about the deficit. The fact that they had turned a $200 billion surplus into a $500 billion deficit didn’t matter to anyone. GWB cut taxes (revenue) and increased spending (expenses). IOW, he and the GOP created a structural deficit that is still here, and nobody cared. The Republicans were bad, but there’s bad and there is DEMENTED. The fact that it all came crashing down in 2008 and Obama helped to rescue the country is history that will be re-written with the help of our media. The current GOP House and Senate is different, it is filled with evil people, who actually want to make people’s lives worse just for the sake of it . And Trump and his brain trust (Giuliani, Christie, Gingrich, Ailes, Bannon) are past evil,they are malevolent. My guess is they are far worse than we know- you think Bannon is just a racist anti-semite, I think he’s a David Duke with media influence, Trump’s not just a sexual predator, he’s a rapist with an appetite for underage girls. For these people the country is there for the taking and a bonus is if the poor/lower middle class get screwed. F Bernie Sanders working with Trump – does he seriously think he won’t get played in the end? Trump has made a career of playing decent people.
The Democrats need some talking point issues, things that will get attention. Melania Trump is here illegally. I think the Democrats need to try to make this issue. At some point Trump has to start deporting people on a large scale, so prioritization will have to be an issue. Who gets deported first? Why not start with the low hanging fruit, the people they know about. Hey, like the president’s wife, she’s here illegally. I’m not being facetious. The Republicans have done shit like this for 30 years, they find weak points and they attack. That’s why they win elections, and Democrats don’t. Trump’s wife’s immigration status is a legitimate issue, given that his first campaign issue was illegal immigrants. And if they have to demonize her a bit, TFB, has any major politician ever demonized immigrants (both illegal and legal) more than Trump.
There is no point in working with Trump. He’s played people his whole life, smart people who should know better. He’s not going to stop now. In the end Trump was right. His people tried to control him, create a new Trump. Ultimately, Trump being Trump got him elected POTUS. Despite getting creamed in the debates, the sexual predator tape, mocking a man’s disability, screwing over thousands of contractors, stealing from his own charity, his birtherism, this piece of crap will be our next president. And the Democrats should work with him?
I think people really underestimate the changes to come next year. I think they will eliminate the filibuster, it doesn’t matter what McConnell and the other senators think, its what Trump and his team want. Trump is in total control of the party and they know it. I believe Ailes and Bannon will be running the entire show. They will dictate the key points in all legislation, then let the House and Senate leaders do the details. Ailes and Bannon are media guys, they know how to sell a shit sandwich to the American public with the help of a compliant media.
This whole thing is starting is starting to seem almost apocolyptical to me. My wife thinks I’m getting paranoid, but if you follow Trump’s path it doesn’t seem so crazy. He couldn’t win the primaries, right. He insulted POWs, he’s done right. He mocked a disabled reporter, he’s done, right. He’s a sexual predator, he’s done, right. No, he’s effin’ president-elect Trump.
@michael reynolds:
NZ is a beautiful place and I quite like the UK.
If you want to live elsewhere because you like it there, that’s great. But I have to say that moving in order to run away from your own country is a bit weak.
If you love America, then fight to keep it. Don’t let some brownshirt punks reshape it in their image.
(Full disclosure: I have to admit that this is easy for me to say because I already have a second citizenship and am eligible for a third, so I could actually move to another perfectly fine western country if the fit hits the shan.)
@James Joyner: Do you remember the Brooks Brothers riot, when the RNC sent campaign operatives dressed in suits to violently protest and shut down the recount of votes in Florida? That was actually using threats of violence to subvert the Democratic process, and it worked.
And then when Bush took office, he claimed an enormous mandate, rammed through crippling tax cuts and launched a war based on lies.
If there are people opposed to Trump who are willing to put the Republicans on notice that they’re not going to lie down quietly and let them deport 11 million people, institute a nationwide police state stopping and frisking minorities just in case, and taking the rights of women to control their own bodies, that’s fine with me.
And you may claim this is lefty hyperbole, but Trump campaigned on every single one of these issues.
@Todd: At this point I think there will be a few more protests and then a long, long pout.
@James Joyner: Obama had the Birther movement, which was disgraceful, but I don’t recall street demonstrations
And where was the GOP leadership during the Birther movement? Oh right, some of them were part of it, and most of the rest just looked away. I believe Obama and Michelle are meeting with Trump and his wife today. I wouldn’t blame Barack Obama if he got a private moment with Donald Trump, and whispered in his ear something like “Donald, GFY for the misery that you put my family through with your Birther BS”. And then ended the meeting abruptly.
@Todd: “Without sounding like a condescending dick, my basic message is that all this energy is being expended about 3 days too late.”
This may be the most self-refuting sentence ever written.
@Pch101:
Well, that’s the nature of the conversation within my family: fight or flight. We agree that as well-off white people it’d be worse than ‘weak’ (your generous word choice) to run away, but at the same time I have kids, and Einstein got out in 1934, many years before Auschwitz opened its gate.
The other problem is the dynamic that’s going to play out. In the nature of things the Left is now going to swing too far left. The right will then justify a crackdown. More protests, more riots, more crackdowns. If the Left isn’t rioting it’ll be the Right rioting because Trump hasn’t rounded up all the Mexicans.
This is not looking like a good four years to be in the United States.
Well, not surprisingly, more votes were cast for Democrats in our recent election, and yet Republicans control every branch of government. There are many structural reasons for this, but it is most certainly a singularly depressing fact of our current political life.
Like it or not Republicans have engineered a way to become a majority party in without getting a majority of votes. Which is richly ironic because Republicans have not considered the last two (two-term) Democratic presidents to be legitimate.
I’m not sure why that’s acceptable to the American people, but it is.
Liberals don’t need to do any soul searching over the results of this election, they need to get even (peacefully, of course.)
@SenyorDave:
No, the time for panic was 2 days ago, 2 week ago, 2 months ago, heck 2 years ago (when most people didn’t realize there was a reason to panic).
Right now is the time for people to calm the hell down and try to figure out the best way forward in what is not likely to be a very pleasant environment for many.
If/when it starts to look like any of people’s worst fears (and I don’t mean just the normal conservative agenda) might be enacted, then perhaps some drastic action might be warranted. But unless and until then, all this freaking out is just making the left look ridiculous.
I’m a lot less worried about the #NOtMyPresident foolishness than I am about the racist bigots actually attacking people.
There are more than 6 cases just among friends and family of people I know that have been spit on, hit, had coffee poured over them and generally harassed for not being white Christians.
Yesterday was the 78th anniversary of Kristelnacht. Yesterday morning in Philadelphia, shop windows were defaced with swastikas and “Sieg Heil 2016”. Vans and buildings were tagged with pro-Trump, pro-nazi and racist grafiti.
This dark genie has been loosed by conservatives and your condemnation of protests is seriously misplaced. Talk to some non-whites and non-Christians, James, and understand that this isn’t just another election and the echos of the not too distant past are getting louder. We understand that they mean it when they say that one of their first steps will be to allow discrimination against the LGBTQ community.
So spare us your hand-wringing about protesting against bigotry and hate, James. Yes, Trump won and will be the next President but that doesn’t mean we can or should be quiet about what that means and meekly accept becoming second-class citizens.
This. Bad polls and taking things for granted. People actually believed they didn’t need to vote to maintain the status quo. Look at Wisconsin turnout from 2012, get off the couch people, christ.
Respectfully, James, I think the reason you’re seeing the level of “freak out” is because of the fundamentally disgraceful and harmful rhetoric that the president-elect has used over the course of this campaign. As a non-white male who is in an interracial marriage, I worry about what kind of an America my soon-to-be born child will grow up in. People of color, women, immigrants, Muslims, LGBTQ, and disabled people have all either been singled out by Trump directly or by those associated with him as contributors to the dystopian hellscape he imagines the country to be and that’s scary.
As a white male who generally votes Republican, it’s quite likely that nothing much is going to change for you under Trump. With unifed GOP control of the federal governemnt, almost EVERYTHING could change for those other groups. Obamacare is almost certainly gone. DREAMers will see their status altered. Efforts at stopping climate change will be reversed. The social safety net is going to be cut. Hyperbole? Maybe, but I don’t think so. When somebody shows you who they are, believe them. Trump has shown us more than enough for all of us to know who he is.
I have no faith that Trump will try to do anything to improve the lifes of non-white Americans. In fact, he talks about many of us – “The African Americans,” the blacks,” the Mexicans” – the way that racists in the 1950s and 60s talked. I don’t know if you can boil the entire election down to a “white lash” but I can certainly tell you I feel a hell of a lot more concerned about things like my physical safety today than I ever did under a President Bush. I didn’t especially like Bush or Romney, but they weren’t out on the campaign trail threatening to jail their political opponents. Also, the same people out here saying we should give Trump a chance or the benefit of the doubt are some of the same people who, from literally the first night of Obama’s presidency, did everything they could to symie and delegitamize his time in office.
This is scary stuff and people who are maginalized feel as though things are about to get a lot worse for them. They certainly have the right to peacfully protest and have their voices heard. They and their allies certainly have every right to fight through legal means to prevent Trump’s policies from destroying their lives. Tell me why we shouldn’t worry.
Not really a democraticaly elected president. An electoral college-elected president. IN a true democracy, it appears that HRC would have been given office based on the number of votes she got versus Trump.
Anyhoo, I agree that the protesters are too little, too late. I suspect many were complacent in the thought that Trump could never win. Some perhaps viewed HRC as a neo-con and wrote in Bernie or voted for Stein?
Proetsts won’t change the outcome. But the one thing protests might do is show the powers that be that there is an awful lot of anger and fear that could have consequences going forward (at least in two years).
Does the 1st Amendment not guarantee these people their right to protest? And is “freak out” maybe a little over the top?
People are angry. People feel threatened. Can you say they shouldn’t? Do you have enough empathy to put yourself in the place of a Muslim or a Dreamer?
It falls on Trump (and McConnell and Ryan) to show they want reconciliation. And given that Trump lies about everything (and McConnell and Ryan), words won’t do it. It’s going to have to be something real and substantive.
@Mike P: Respectfully, James, I think the reason you’re seeing the level of “freak out” is because of the fundamentally disgraceful and harmful rhetoric that the president-elect has used over the course of this campaign
Look at the people he surrounded himself with, especially Bannon and Ailes. He’s a racist, just not the dog whistle type, the overt type. For women, he’s a sexist, not subtle, the sexual predator type.
By the way, if you really want a window into the soul of Trump, watch “The Central Park Five” by Ken Burns. You can see just how demented he really is.
@Todd:
Thank you once again for being the voice of reason.
I’m going to have to disagree with James’ assertion that you can’t show your displeasure with your fellow Americans’ vote.
However, anything beyond a peaceful vote is simply embarrassing. If you think burning effigies is going to convince any Trump voter that they might have made a mistake, you are truly stupid. And like Todd said, you’re expending your energy about 3 days too late.
Personally, I’ve heard from friends that are freaking out (including one person who was a lifetime Republican up until Trump!), but this is not the end of the world or American or anything like that. Some progress will get undone, and with a tiny bit of luck Trump won’t start a nuclear war.
But I’m reminded of the “arc of the moral universe” quote. Wait two years, and the Democrats will take the Senate back over and I’d even bet a small amount on the House as well. And then it’s time for obstructionism payback.
There was a lot of hand wring during the campaigns about Trump normalizing unacceptable behavior and speech. Well, that happened. And here we are. To complain now is too late.
@EddieInCA: Good riddance bedwetter
@michael reynolds: Please leave and ESD
@michael reynolds:
This is one instance in which federalism and “states rights” help liberals.
You can bet that states such as California will maintain healthcare exchanges and gay rights. If the Trumpistas send in jackbooted thugs to shut down the pot shops, then you can bet that California will rise up against it. The more liberal states will form alliances to protect themselves against these people.
The diffusion of power can serve as a check-and-balance in ways that were not possible in Weimar and its aftermath.
The downside is that we may have to rely more upon state rather than federal power for awhile. The situation could be quite different in the Deep South, for example; perhaps the blue states can take in refugees.
@al-Ameda: Bring it bitch
@Franklin:
We aren’t getting the Senate back in two years, or the House. We will have precisely zero political power for the next 4 years, at best.
The Democratic Party is a zombie now, leaderless. The anti-Trump effort will devolve onto Lefty and racial/ethnic groups and will become ever more radicalized. Radicalized to the point that they’ll turn off half the people nominally on their side.
I saw this movie when it was called 1968.
@Franklin: With the voter suppression tools that the GOP has used (and will now have free reign since the DOJ is in their hand), I don’t see either happening. There is no reason to assume that Trump won’t use every tool in his disposal, he has done it his whole life. And soon he will be the most powerful man in the world, and he’s a sociopath (possibly a psychopath, given that he admitted to being a sexual predator, I can only imagine what he has not admitted to).
@Todd: Snowflakes melting because they didn’t get their way – why don’t they all go away?
@Franklin: While I wish this was true, Dems have 10 Senate seats up in 2018, some I think in states Trump carried. It’s going to be very hard for Dems to keep all of those. Best case is to try to start making inroads at the state level (winning back statehouses and building a bench to make a strong push to get the house back in 2020 during the presidential election). The lack of voting for this presidential election, combined with Dems not turing out for midterms, does not inspire me with a lot of hope.
@Mike P: Then go to Mexico
I don’t get it, he’s shown us who is. He has always taken retribution, he’s gloated about it in the past. This is an evil man, he basks in either people’s misery. Even Cheney believed he was doing the right thing. trump doesn’t care, but he genuinely likes hurting people.
I have no problem with peaceful protests. This is a free country and Trump has said and done plenty of things to which people are perfectly entitled to object. This “not my President” garbage, however, is yet another example of liberals trashing an established norm while crying about Republicans doing the same thing. I had hoped that would die with the Clinton dynasty, but maybe not.
As for the “world is ending” hysteria, I suppose it’s pointless to say anything. We’ll all experience the truth soon enough.
Mike
@bandit: Nope. From here, born here. I’ll stay, thanks.
@gVOR08: It falls on Trump (and McConnell and Ryan) to show they want reconciliation
Trump won. Maybe you missed that. The surest way to guarantee a second Trump term will be to act like that never happened.
Mike
@MBunge: This “not my President” garbage, however, is yet another example of liberals trashing an established norm while crying about Republicans doing the same thing.
the difference is that Republicans leadership has acted like that toward Obama for 7+ years.
@Pch101:
The upside to the downside is it might lead Democrats to start paying proper attention to state-level politicking and actually win back some state houses so we can re-draw districts and eliminate the Republican gerrymanders.
@SenyorDave:
It’s never the time for panic. I’m really sure whether to be amused or disgusted by the over-melodramatic pity party the left is throwing for themselves
You lost an election. YOU WILL LIVE. You want to stop Trump, okay well then SUCK IT UP, because a bunch of sniveling wimps sure aren’t going to do that.
It’s all very well for James to decry the growing riots, and I’m inclined to agree with him, but then neither of us are part of the groupings a Trump presidency and republican house and senate have promised to target.
For immigrants, be they legal or illegal (how do the powers that be tell the difference without demanding papers of all) the dangers are real and potentially devastating, and I’m guessing there are millions of kids terrified this morning for themselves and their parents, and plenty of Trump supporters unmoved by that fact. Worth protesting?
It’s likely 23 million of our working poor will lose their healthcare and face not just heart breaking decisions, but bankruptcy too. Meanwhile Trump and the house and senate are planning new tax breaks for the wealthiest among us.
The reintroduction of stop and frisk is back on the table for African American communities just as the KKK and white supremacy groups have won their biggest victory since before the civil war.
By voting for Trump, white america has told everyone else that they could care less about the quality of their lives. For many of our fellow citizens, it must feel like a declaration of war.
@MBunge: Adorable. When a Democrat wins — that is, when a Democrat wins by such overwhelming numbers that he erases the structural priveleges and outright voter suprression that keep Republicans in power — it’s up to him to reach out and make peace across the aisles, generally by adopting right wing policies.
When a Republican wins, even when far fewer American voters have chosen them, it’s up to the Democrats to reach out and make peace, generally by adopting right wing policies.
Oh, and when a Democrat wins, it’s perfectly acceptable for every elected Republican to work together to ensure the policies that a vast majority of the voters chose can never get enacted.
But when a Republican wins without even getting the popular vote, the majority must go along with right wing policies to ensure the good of Democracy.
@SenyorDave: I laugh at your tears – what’d he say ‘You’re Fired’
@cian: Cry me a river bedwetter
@michael reynolds:
Sadly, I fear this prediction is much more likely to come to pass than your other one about the Republicans eliminating the filibuster and freely enacting legislation with no impediments. :-/
@Mikey:
Yes, I hope so.
Along those lines, I liked Obama — I voted for him twice, and not even in the same election — but he was a weak party leader in the sense that he didn’t work to build it up and shore up some of these deficiencies. He was quite interested in his presidency, but the party didn’t seem to interest him much
And a good deal of effort should have been invested in grooming someone for the presidency who wasn’t Clinton or Sanders. The VP should have been one of those people; it wasn’t wise to have a VP who wasn’t on a serious track to seek the presidency, as that was an opportunity lost. So the president has to take some responsibility for the outcome.
@Stormy Dragon:
Yeah, I will live. I’m an upper-middle-class straight white guy. I’ve nothing to worry about.
But there are people who WILL NOT LIVE if Trump and his advisers get their way. This is not hyperbole. Repeal of Obamacare will kill people. Defunding of Planned Parenthood will kill people.
This is more than just having lost an election. Elections have consequences and the consequences of this one could be dire indeed, if you’re black or gay or poor or a woman.
@Mike P:
Please just ignore the 8 year old in the room.
@wr:
The Bunge biopic will be entitled Fifty Shades of Tedious., coming to an empty theater near you.
Aside from being a legend in his own shower, he offers more cliches than insight. This is where the scrolling wheel comes in handy.
@bandit:
You know, you’re confirming all the worst stereotypes of a Trump fan. Nothing of substance to say–just ad hominem insults.
One possible “barely” upside.
If (really when) the Republicans begin to repeal Obamacare they will be forced to finally give some details about their promises to replace it. Frankly I don’t think they have any intention of replacing it other than going back to the way things were.
Will they get called on their mendacity? History says probably not but we’ll see. There will be 23 million Americans waiting to find out.
@CSK:
He can’t believe we didn’t all immediately slip on our swastika armbands and zieg heil along with him.
@bandit:
You’re so cute. By the way, isn’t it time for your daily colonoscopy?
And this time brush your teeth and sanitize your keyboard after the procedure.
All the best,
al-Ameda
@Mikey:
Not one of whom is helped by this “oh I can’t go to class today, someone bring me my fainting couch! Get me a realtor in New Zealand!” BS
I feel like Vito Coreleone talking to Johnny Fontane right now.
@Davebo:
My bright side is that protesting the government is suddenly going to be patriotic again. Heck, we may even start getting anti-war protests again.
Also the news media will once against care about executive overreach, due process, etc.
Not because any of them actually care about any of it, mind you, but for at least the next two years they’ll be talking about it anyways.
@MBunge:
Oh please. Democrats *are* respecting an established norm – one that’s almost a decade old at this point. “Kenyan usurper” ring a bell? A 5 second internet search will turn up hundreds of examples. All requests to stop the disrespectful name calling and show some decorum was disregarded as “Free Speech, bitch!”
Now it’s a Spray-tan usurper with the illegal alien wife. You reap what you sow. You disrespected the Office of the President and its holder so often it’s common place to use names like Obummer. The internet is going to have plenty to say and plenty of precedent to back it up. Look forward to “Trump’s fault!”, “TV reject”, “Neon Numbskull” and whatever dreck flows out of reddit (or worse).
To quote our new resident 4-chan wannabe, “Deal with it bed-wetter.” We’re following tradition.
This is absolutely true. This is time for hard work and straight thinking. Get down to how to actually win elections and play flat out. Handwringing won’t help anything.
“Spock: I intend to assist in the effort to reestablish communication with Starfleet. However, if crew morale is better served by my roaming the halls weeping, I will gladly defer to your medical expertise. Excuse me.” Star Trek (2009)
@Stormy Dragon:
No, but getting the fwck out of this sick country would be great for my peace of mind.
And you never know, really. Einstein got out of Germany in 1934, took all of physics with him, helped make the United States the world’s first nuclear power, which, all by itself made Allied victory inevitable.
Pretty sure I won’t be building A-Bombs, but Trumpy the Pig is already well into the anti-semitism and will only get worse. Jews are the canaries in the coal mine of western civilization. Most of us were raised on a history that includes way too many moments like this.
@michael reynolds: Michael, I agree. But unlike his overt racism wrt African Americans and Latinos, his anti-semitism is more of the dog whistle kind (although Breitbart, which Steve Bannon runs, has very overt anti-semitism). Trump has normalized all the isms, racism, anti-semitism, sexism. What other isms are left?
@Stormy Dragon:
I see no foundation for such a belief in our recent history.
Again, it’s like you’ve lived in a different world the past 8 years.
After this election, mostly peaceful protests(*) seem like a fine way for people to begin to process their anger and disappointment. It won’t change anything that Trump does, and some of his more deplorable supporters will still be deplorable, but it’s entirely for the protesters at this point.
Compared to the dead silence that my office was yesterday, and the wave of depression, a little lively release of anger seems hopeful.
And, it’s a very clear demonstration that if Trump really wants to be the President For Everyone that he alleged to want in his acceptance speech, he has a lot of work to do. He campaigned on dividing us. I expect his administration will combine the worst aspects of George W. Bush and Richard Nixon, but I would love to be wrong.
(*I’m not going to quibble over levels of nonviolence. The protesters aren’t going through the neighborhoods, finding the people who still have Trump signs out, and then setting those people on fire, so they are basically nonviolent, a few broken windows or whatever notwithstanding)
Or perhaps put it another way:
@Stormy Dragon:
True, it’s melodramatic right now. It kinda needs to be to set the tone. This was an anger-driven election and it will be anger-driven Presidency. Liberals are just getting their grievances on record along with the other whiner groups. We tried the reconciliation game and got burned. Now its our turn with the torches and ptichforks. The crowd will only grow as Trump begins to disappoint them.
I’m not a fan of riots in the street – I think they defeat the purpose. But I’m 100% for flipping the script and getting my con on. All the nasty conspiracy theories? Forward those memes. All the clever little name plays? The Dump’s moving on up! Constant trashing of the legitimacy of his legacy? Petition Disney to close the Hall of Presidents rather then add His Orangeness. Heckle his Twitter feed. Start investigations and rumors to see how long it takes Congress to give a damn.
Trump ran on anger and spite and by god, is he going to get it.
They are protesters. But
Also, they’re black people, so they’re not protests, they’re “riots”.
@Gustopher:
There are folks on the right who have a plantation mentality: They want to be able to abuse you, then silence you if you dare to complain about it.
@Stormy Dragon: Pretty ironic choice of quote all things considered!
@Davebo:
I was conscious of the irony. But ultimately, a leader can be a leader without being president and a president can be president without being a leader, so it still applies.
@KM: Trump also ran on “Drain the swamp” Rhetorically, at least, that put him in the same camp as Sanders and Warren. Put that in his face every time. The House and Senate are full of the insiders that he was talking about. Make the rhetoric reality. Point him in that direction. Starting with the attempts to help Wall Street by weakening Dodd-Frank and the CFPB. If anything, it will show that the fleecing of the Trump voters will go on.
@Pch101: “This is where the scrolling wheel comes in handy.”
That and the 25 identical comments from the sled dog creep. But at least he doesn’t drone on.
The media made him and they will move on to another Pidgeon. Now they will keep us hating each other because ratings are good. Who will do the most outrageous thing next. Stay tuned. Did you see that, did you hear that OMG I am so sick of it. I really do not think many people truly care what happens. Why did we have these two people to choose from? I know we had others, but as everyone here said that does not count. Well that is what media told us to say. They paid for this, and this is what we got. It is all a effing mess. and we keep falling for it.
@Stormy Dragon: Oooh, ooh, I get it! The media is all lefties!!!
Wow, what an insightful comment. Now explain that all the time the media spent on Hillary’s emails was really part of a liberal plot to — well, it’s your fantasy. You go for it.
@barbintheboonies:
We have one candidate who was flawed, had issues and is completely qualified to be POTUS. The other was a racist, sexual predator who is less qualified than most of the commentators on this blog.
@Scott: “Trump also ran on “Drain the swamp” ”
Yup, he’s going to end government corruption. Which is why his first hires are:
Rudy Guiliani, who misappropriated 9/11 funds to build a love nest for him and his girlfriend.
Chris Christie, whose three top aides have been found guilty (one confessed and pleaded) to shutting down bridge lanes and harming tens of thousands of citizens simply to take political revenge on a mayor who wouldn’t support him.
Newt Gingrich, who shut down the government because he couldn’t get a seat on Air Force One.
Just feel that clear wind a’blowin.
@wr: Chris Christie is a one of his hires, for what official food taster?
Mumble. I’ll worry if we start getting rallies of 100,000 or more 6 months after the election.
At present, we’ve had more violence in a college town after the local football team unexpectedly loses.
Meh.
President Obama was elected in 2008 on the premise of hope and change, to raise the bar.
President Trump was elected in 2012 on the premise of hope and change, to raise the bar in a different perspective.
Trump is the Republican equivalent of Obama.
Same players in Congress. Who will do whatever is politically viable for themselves.
Trump isn’t savvy enough to pull them inline, not smart enough to play political chess. He will have to rely on his experts.
It’s just more Republican nonsense we have seen the last 16 years. Just a different figurehead and what happens the next two years is anyone’s guess at this point.
Trump will own, as well as every other Republican in a position of power, everything that happens to this country. Starting January 20, 2017. Period.
On topic: People are pissed. They thought Trump was going to lose, and now they worry about their safety, their family’s and the state of the nation. Democratic, Republican, and others alike.
Once Trump starts implementing the neo-con vision of America, again. Protests will only continue. Bank on it.
It’s not just liberals who are afraid of this presidency. My friend, who is conservative, a former Republican, and an evangelical Christian, is terrified of what a Trump presidency will mean for the country and specifically for her son.
@Andrew: Same players in Congress. Who will do whatever is politically viable for themselves.
Trump isn’t savvy enough to pull them inline, not smart enough to play political chess. He will have to rely on his experts.
Trump and his experts have rolled anyone in their way, they’ll roll Congress. Trump is the Republican party now. Ailes and Bannon will dictate to Ryan and McConnell. We’re in a different world now. They will go all in on getting rid of the social safety net for tax cuts. Short term gain, the hell withe long game. The long game is for losers, like obama.
I feel like I should be saying the following in that tiny font that is used when people want to meekly respond on the internet with words that they know a lot of fellow commenters on this site will disagree with…but I agree with James that peaceful outbursts of frustration are fine, but if it crosses the line into the destruction of private property or harm of others than that is not a very civil way to express your displeasure at the results of the election (gee, look, two days later and the world has still not ended).
To folks who say I do not get it…my mother is from Italy, grew up in Turkey, and recently had to renew her green card and passport (she does admit she is glad she got all this done while President Obama is still in office, also glad my Aunt from Turkey concluded her visit in Oct.), so she is an immigrant (married my father who is a veteran when she was volunteering for USO in Turkey), my brother-in-law is African American (aka…black), and I grew up in Pacoima.
I have been impacted in a super mundane way by civil unrest, as I remember the LA Riots well (kicked off by an event that of course happened not far from where I used to live in Pacoima), thank goodness my Sister had a license otherwise getting home working near Ventura Blvd and living off of Devonshire Blvd would have been fun, to put it mildly (no Uber in those days, and it would have been a hideosly expensive taxi ride if I could even get one to show up, the RTD buses at the time were not running due to the riots)…again super mundane, but it was not all rainbows and sunshine where I grew up…San Fernando High was the site of one of the first student shoots teacher incidents back before these incidents became more common.
My point is that most people were resolved that Clinton or Trump were going to win the prize and understand that the world is not going to hell in a hand-basket. This is my very verbose way of saying that this gringo just expected a more pragmatic (aka…calm) reaction from some of the posters on this great blog.
I also realize that this post is just a long ramble full of random points that may or may not fit into the context of the subject of this thread, but I am going to post it anyway.
WTF? He is an admitted serial sex offender.
@michael reynolds: Actually, the U.S. preponderance in science and technology was built on the backs of Jewish (and other) refugees from Nazi-occupied Europe. I find it ironic because the intellectual culture of Europe is something that most of the US outside of New England never has had much use for. All those Trump supporters moaning for a return to the 1950s are going to discover that the benefits of the 1950s arose from a culture that none of them would be happy to live in and from the education that none of them believe in.
So if you want to know if it’s time to move, keep an eye on the scientists and engineers. They’re the canaries in the coal mines. And if it gets bad enough that they’re vamoosing the US to elsewhere, you can write FINIS to the good ol’ USA. It will dwindle into a collection of thinly inhabited towns trying to keep an economy running on strip malls, Barcalounger stores, and radio talk shows. That’s all “real AmurricaHns” will have left.
Have fun!
@SenyorDave: He’s in charge of the transition.
@Andrew:
Nonsense, Andrew. They are Republicans…so responsibility and accountability mean nothing.
Remember…according to Republicans 9.11 didn’t happen on their watch, and the recession was Obama’s fault.
Republicans are all pu$$ies who refuse to accept responsibility for anything…and it’s pretty obvious that Trump is the biggest pu$$y of them all.
@SenyorDave:
That is political suicide. It is.
The largest generation in American history is now retirement age. Also the biggest Republican block of voters.
It’s easy to be against something when it’s viable to be. When you can say oh, we do not have the votes!! It’s also another thing to put your money when your mouth is, when you are actually called on to do it AND can.
For months now most on this blog have been calling Republicans on the fact they always blame everyone else not them, for their problems.
What makes you or anyone else think that just because (R)’s hold both houses and the Oval office they will all of a sudden grow the pair needed to take responsibility after something that huge?
The last Republican president expanded federal insurance, as did President Obama.
Republicans had the power back then to defund the net, and they did not.
Could it happen in the future? Sure
Will it? I doubt it.
Case in point: what
@C. Clavin: said
@Mike P:
Mmm, it’s actually 23 seats for Dems and 8 for Republicans. Ignoring the very real possibility of voter suppression, I still think we make gains.
These seats were originally won in 2012. On the one hand, that means they were on Obama’s coattails, but on the other hand the presidency was expected to remain Democratic. In 2018 the shoe will be on the other foot – it will be the bigger struggle for the Reps to hold their seats.
Personally I think it’s irrelevant if Trump carried states – it’s ignoring why people voted for him specifically (and to be honest, we don’t entirely know the answer to that right now despite plenty of useless punditry). In any case, if Trump and Congress are as bad as everyone says they are, America *will* make a correction.
@michael reynolds:
I said essentially the same thing about the GOP Saturday morning. I was hoping for a rebuke of Trumpism that would have forced reflection and rebuilding. Instead, a relatively small shift in the vote creates a euphoria about a permanent Republican majority.
It’s likely true that the Democrats won’t take back the House. It’s probably not seriously up for play, absent Trump living up to people’s worst nightmares, until 2022–when the new Census comes in and reapportionment occurs. The Senate isn’t looking great for the Dems next cycle, either, because it’s their turn for most of their most vulnerable members to come up for re-election.
Regardless, while I opposed Trump. he’s get a much, much narrower majority in the Senate than Obama did after the 2008 elections. One presumes Dems will use their power to stop craziness and force reconciliation.
@Stormy Dragon:
Of course they aren’t, but allow people a couple days to work through their normal reactions to legitimate fears.
After that, though, it’s time to actually get to work.
@dxq: The ones I’m seeing are mostly white. They’re riots because they’re blocking streets and damaging property.
But, at this point, they’re protesting the democratic choices of their fellow citizen, not a prospective candidate for president. That’s not only unseemly, it’s weirdly ironic given the real fears that Trump and has supporters would not accept the legitimate outcome of the vote, whether by rioting at the outcome or by threatening to impeach Clinton for unspecified crimes committed before she even took office.
I normally try to be at least nominally polite to our hosts here, but what campaign were you watching?
The majority (I’ll even go so far as to say the vast majority) of violence so far has been aimed against Trump and his supporters. Just a few examples:
— countless assaults
— vandalism of signs
— vandalism of campaign offices
— firebombing of one campaign office
— one actual assassination attempt
And that’s not even touching upon the DNC hiring convicted felon and frequent White House guest Robert Creamer to send instigators to Trump events to pose as Sanders supporters and start fights.
These riots should have come as no surprise to anyone who paid the slightest bit of attention. Hell, we were even given a sneak preview when Scott Walker was elected in Wisconsin, an encore when he beat the attempt to recall him, and another re-run when he won re-election.
And your little equivocation of the Tea Party and the Occupy movement? The Tea Partiers, more often than not, left their protest sites cleaner than they found them. The Occupy movement was practically a Detroit or Chicago weekend everywhere it went.
To steal a phrase from the legendary Iowahawk, these are YOUR screaming garbage babies having their felonious temper tantrums. You can take out your own trash… or it can be done for you.
@Andrew: the year is 2016, not 2012. Correction. ha.
@C. Clavin: Bullshit bravado in the Billy Bush tape is hardly an admission of serial criminal behavior. It’s almost certainly macho fantasy. But it does look like there are multiple actual incidents of untoward behavior.
@inhumans99 :
Never be ashamed to ramble 🙂
I find it quite curious that the people who wanted to burn it all down are surprised liberals are reaching for matches. Plus, two days and the world not ending isn’t an indicator since Obama’s still President. Let’s revise this in late January for a better comparison.
You are right in that property damage is not the answer. Again, I feel riots defeat the purpose but you can’t make an omelette without breaking a few eggs. Shock value and disruption is inherently necessary in a protest for it to be effective – the vaunted Gandhi and King protests were definitely disruptive in nature. What we are seeing are proper protests and have been very peaceful considering. Wait till you see what happens among the die-hards when the Wall fails to materialize.
However, expecting calm responses to the election of Trump belies the same kind of blindness to cultural anger that got him elected in the first place. Rural America felt disrespected and thus went with Loud-n-Crude to get their F-U in. Not expecting a reciprocal F-U from the other side is foolish. It’s just as disrespectful to invalidate one form of anger as it is the other. Being the adult in the room doesn’t mean you can’t drop some F-bombs when the hammer hits your foot. We will eventually get down to rebuilding but right now more then half the country wants a do-over – with a healthy number of conservatives in that mix. Protests are going to be a hallmark of the Presidency same way they were for Nixon. We just got the party started early.
@Andrew: “For months now most on this blog have been calling Republicans on the fact they always blame everyone else not them, for their problems.
What makes you or anyone else think that just because (R)’s hold both houses and the Oval office they will all of a sudden grow the pair needed to take responsibility after something that huge?”
I asked a a Trump supporter how it was that the Democrats were at fault for everything when the GOP had control of the House. He said, “Well, most of them are not really Republicans so they’re really Democrats in disguise and so it’s the Democrats fault.”
Who can argue with logic like that>
@James Joyner:
What in the holy hell are you talking about, James? A large number of women – women who are now being viciously attacked by the alt-right – have come forward to say it was NOT just talk.
Of course it isn’t just talk. Jesus Christ, he referred past tense to being able to get away with it.
Great piece in the New Republic…America changed for the worse on Tuesday.
https://newrepublic.com/article/138649/president-donald-trump-means-muslims
James, please go jump in the Potomac. Trump is really just the GOP with spittle-flecked lips, and most of the damage that he does will be what the GOP has been trying to do for decades.
@James Joyner:
BS…it is a candid admission of guilt. I get that he is the leader of your team now…but dude…you have daughters. Grow a pair and call him what he is…a serial sex offender.
@James Joyner: Bullshit bravado in the Billy Bush tape is hardly an admission of serial criminal behavior.
I thought he was actually pretty specific in the tape. Especially when he went into the star bit:
Trump: Yeah, that’s her. With the gold. I better use some Tic Tacs just in case I start kissing her. You know, I’m automatically attracted to beautiful — I just start kissing them. It’s like a magnet. Just kiss. I don’t even wait. And when you’re a star, they let you do it. You can do anything.
That sounds like a man who has decided he can do what he wants. I think that if a prosecutor had the full transcript of the tape to work with and a few credible complaintants most people would get a jury to convict. Trump admitted on camera that he is a sexual predator. I’m guessing he’s also a rapist since what most people admit is less than what they do.
BTW, what’s up with the untoward behavior term, they are sexual assaults
@James Joyner:
This defies logic…when he says that he did it, it’s simply bravado. But then 12 women come out and say, “yeah, he did that to me”…and you refuse to accept that is in fact a de facto admission of guilt???
I just lost all fwcking respect for you.
@James Joyner: “Bullshit bravado in the Billy Bush tape is hardly an admission of serial criminal behavior. It’s almost certainly macho fantasy. But it does look like there are multiple actual incidents of untoward behavior.”
‘Grab them by the pussy’? That’s not criminal?
@Lynn Eggers:
Do not get me wrong. Everything that comes to pass under Trump is specifically the fault of those who voted for him. The mental pretzels that these people have to twist themselves in is not my problem. Ignorance is never an acceptable excuse. And not doing enough critical thought into what may actually happen under President Trump is not a valid excuse either.
You vote, you take responsibility for the person for whom you voted for. Your victim-hood is left in the voting station. If someone wishes to be treated as an adult, they will have to start acting like one.
@michael reynolds: Well, if the alt-right gets really lunatical, I can see women start arming themselves (with hatpins at least, if not guns), and starting to cover up with hijab.
In fact, if I had some spare time, that’s what I’d be doing: starting a woman’s movement insisting that since we’re going to have to deal with a nation of crotch-grabbers if the alt-right takes over, the best thing to do is Start Protecting Ourselves. With great vigor, against those who have revealed themselves to be oinks.
The alt-right may end up being very, very surprised at how their supposed utopia will turn out….
@michael reynolds:
I am white, straight, and not a religious minority. I’m staying. But I don’t blame anyone who doesn’t fit that description for getting out while they can.
@Jenos The Deplorable: Shorter Jenos: “Even though my God-king won the presidency, that’s no reason to stop feeling sorry for myself. Waaaaah!!!”
@KM: “I find it quite curious that the people who wanted to burn it all down are surprised liberals are reaching for matches”
I love this, and will use it frequently.
And you’re right. Trump voters keep talking about how they want to tear everything down — who could think that maybe some people would like to see civiliization keep standing?
@Jenos The Deplorable:
Jenos playing the white male victim again. What a pathetic excuse for a man.
Getting back to the jist of the original post…sure is nice to see Trump is already making ‘Mericuh great again.
@barbintheboonies: Proud that my state choose Kasich over Trump for the Repub Primary, not proud of their general election choice.
1) The GOP is clearly the party the Democrats said it was. It’s now the Trump Party.
2) They’ve got the House, the Senate, and the Presidency. I expect to see immediate huge economic growth instead of Obama’s “Failed Policies” and I expect them to replace my Obamacare policy with Something Terrific.
3) Let’s see the Wall, and let’s see Mexico pay for it.
Let’s see how Doug writes up Trump’s monthly jobs numbers.
@Andrew: “Do not get me wrong. Everything that comes to pass under Trump is specifically the fault of those who voted for him.”
Of course. And attempts to shift the blame only make it worse.
@michael reynolds:
This. Exactly this.
My family has been through this before, and, to a person, the ones who died at Auschwitz-Birkenau & Treblinka & Dachau convinced themselves that everything would be alright. It was all talk, and, after all, our family had lived in Germany for hundreds of years. We were GERMANS. They’d never harm their fellow countrymen.
They were wrong, and that mistaken sense of trust cost them their lives.
The firm is moving us to Paris, and maybe I am overreacting, but I’d rather be wrong (and get to enjoy living in Paris) than be right. At its most basic, I’m just not going to take that chance. I’m going to protect my kids.
@Pch101: yes, remember when obama won and all those wacky right wingers took to the streets? neither do i as it never happened….mainly as they have a bit more class as well as jobs to get to.
so these dumb kids who apparently never heard about the 60’s/70’s protests are doomed to repeat their fore-bearers idiocy. most have no clue what they’re protesting, it’s just “cool” to do so…..until you wind up being jailed and have a criminal record and need help landing a decent job and such- but by all means, show us just how “smart” you all are!
@HarvardLaw92:
Our children make cowards of us. But the first part of the job description for the “Dad” job is you keep the kids safe. And you try as well to protect them from the hatred and poison.
One of my kids is Chinese by birth. She’s not entirely kidding when she says she doesn’t want to be an American citizen anymore.
@bill:
Please scrape together both of your IQ points and type “tea party demonstrations” into your favorite search engine. Go look at the images that come up from that search — they ain’t pretty.
@michael reynolds:
That they do. From the moment I held the oldest in my arms, I’ve been hopelessly in love with them. They’re my life.
I’m an only child, as was my father before me, and my mom has a single sister who died in her teens. Both sets of grandparents fled from Berlin prior to Nuremberg. Neither could convince their parents to accompany them. Everybody else stayed. A few I’ve been told fled to France, only to be caught up later on, and as I understand it, they began to try in earnest after 1938, but of course by then it was far too late.
So, for me, maybe it takes on an added dimension of fear that folks who don’t share our heritage can never understand, but when your family – your ENTIRE family – can fit around a single table at Pesach, it adds perspective. Whatever it takes to keep them safe, I’ll do.
@michael reynolds: You know I share your feelings about Trump, but I’m not convinced I’d trade him for Xi…
@HarvardLaw92: There was a story I heard from a reporter friend of mine about someone living in Europe who saw the handwriting on the wall when a certain man made his speeches as Nuremburg, was terrified of getting caught up in a great war, and researched and scouted and looked for the most isolated, out-of-the-way place he could find to be safe with his family.
….unfortunately, it was a small island in the Pacific called Guadalcanal.
I always tell myself this story when I get the impulse to head for the hills–my feeling is if the Universe has got your number behind the eight-ball, there’s not much you can do about it, so just make sure you can take some of the enemy with you.
(Not to say that I don’t agree heartily with your solution. I may do something similar, but want to get all my ducks in a row first.)
@HarvardLaw92: @michael reynolds: You aren’t going anywhere. Enough with the verkakte fantasies.
@HarvardLaw92:
Will you adopt me?
@Benjamin Wolf:
With all due respect, sir, GFYS
@grumpy realist: Reminds my of my high school physics teacher who always chuckled and told the story of a colleague who was getting freaked out by the protests in Berkeley during the mid-60s so he took another job and moved to Kent State…
Now here’s something to actually freak out about.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-fix/wp/2016/11/10/trump-ditches-the-media-as-he-travels-to-meet-with-obama/
Trump is not allowing a poll of reporters to follow him around, even now after the election. He’s not letting them on his plane. He’s not giving them a schedule of where he’s going to be.
I’m not at all a fan of “he said, she said/both sides do it” journalism, but it does help to avoid stuff like this.
Mike
@grumpy realist:
Anne Frank was born in Frankfurt. Her family left Germany in 1933, but unfortunately, we know now that getting to Amsterdam wasn’t enough. (Her father had tried but failed to obtain visas for the US and UK.)
I have to wonder how many of these protesters voted.
I also have to wonder what they think protests after the election are going to accomplish. As someone on TV put it, the election is over, it’s decided and, at least for now,, we have to accept that fact and let the process work itself out. What these people are protesting now isn’t Trump and it isn’t Trump’s ideas, it’s the fact that Trump won. They’re protesting a free and fair election that didn;t turn out the way they wanted. In the end, they’re no different than Trump supporters who talked about taking up arms if Trump lost.
They have every right to do this, but in my opinion they are being childish.
@C. Clavin:
If this were Trump supporters protesting would you be taking their side, or calling them sore losers?
@Doug Mataconis:
It’s a reminder that Trump didn’t win a mandate.
Let’s hope that Trump understands that this is a republic governed by laws, not a dictatorship run on vendettas and enemies lists. I’m willing to bet that his most fervent supporters sure won’t.
@Pch101: That’s another reason to not budge. First of all, is there anywhere that is really SAFE? Second, I figure that the crazier stuff gets, the more likely there is to be a pushback within the US. Third, if everything really goes to pot, I’d rather be near the world’s biggest collection of fresh water because lord knows we’ll need it.
I also think that we’re going to very quickly see the automobile meet the wall as Trump discovers that most of those things he promised to do he can’t actually pull off. That is, of course, if he ever bothers to even try to keep his promises. I suspect he’s more interested in trying to see how much he can build up his business empire by using the position of POTUS than he is in actually governing and will be perfectly happy to let his band of merry nitwits wreck havoc all around him.
And all the people who voted for him will discover the hard way why Trump was persona non grata when it came to the financial entities of NYC. You poor fools….
@Pch101:
But he did win a mandate .He won the election and, after noon on January 20th he will be President. I don’t like it any more than most of the people commenting on this post but it’s true. Whether or not he ends up with a “mandate: depends on how effective he is at exercising the power that the Consitution gives him. And, when 2020 comes around it depends on whether or not the voters believe he deserves a second term in office.
As I think I have made clear since June 14th 2015, I vehemently oppose Donald Trump and wish he wasn’t President. But I also opposed Barack Obama on many issues he had campaigned on in 2008. Nonetheless, I hope that he ends up at least being an effective President who executes the basic duties of his job because our country can’t afford a President who is a failure.
@grumpy realist:
Otto Frank probably bought several years of time for his family. The fact that they weren’t apprehended until the tail end of the war may have helped him to survive, since he was in a concentration camp for less time than many. (Unfortunately, that didn’t save the rest of his family or the others who shared their place in the Amsterdam annex.) So I wouldn’t say that it was completely futile.
But as I noted above, federalism will help to save us. If Trump is truly wretched, then I would be surprised if some of the states didn’t band together to support each other against him.
Personally, if there is anything to worry about (and I’m honestly not that worried about it), then it’s the possibility that some of his halfwit supporters decide to form their own SA-style militia groups and deputize themselves as street fighters for the cause.
There is an element of nutters who are genuinely convinced that the cops and military will support them if they decide to have their own little uprisings, which gives them license to decide whether they can start shooting. (I do wish that I was joking, but some of them really do believe that. Yes, they are that f**ked in the head.)
I find this an odd statement, but it might be in how we each define mandate. Trump lost the popular vote and this election cost Republicans seven (I think?) seats in the House, and they also lost seats in the Senate.
He won the Presidency, but mandate to me means “clear direction by a majority in the country to move in a specific direction.” Nothing is clear, and as noted, he didn’t win a majority of the votes. Thus, to me at least, no mandate.
Seeing Trump this morning with Obama, I’m reminded of the scene at the end of The Candidate…in some ways Trump is completely in over his head…meanwhile, whenever one of the two parties has complete control in Washington, they overplay their hand, screw up, and are repudiated in following elections…
@Doug Mataconis:
Er, he didn’t even win first place. .
Have you considered the possibility that this is not a desirable outcome for the various minorities who he has specifically targeted?
You guys on the right seem to be oblivious to the fact that Trump has declared war on certain groups of people. They’re worried because they are on the enemies list.
You don’t happen to be one of that list, but try to have some empathy for those who are and understand that this is not business as usual. This is not a debate over whether the candidate agrees with us on funding mass transit and space exploration, but a guy whose rhetoric resonates with the Klan.
@Jen:
He won, and the Constitution doesn’t give a President who wins by more votes, or cost his party the least seats in Congress, more power. He will have all the powers that Article II of the Constitution and the law allow and that’s good enough for now.
Again that doesn’t mean anyone is obligated not to speak out against him when they feel he’s doing something wrong. Indeed, it’s our duty as American citizens to speak out on those occasions. But to protest the fact of an election seems silly, childish, and ultimately destructive.
@HarvardLaw92:
You’ve done enough self-righteous signaling. You’re staying here because you have nowhere to go.
@Pch101:
When the time comes that President Trump actually proposes policy ideas like the ones you suggest, I will be among the first to speak out as loudly as I can.
@Doug Mataconis:
He already proposed them during the campaign! People are worried because of the things that he has already said.
How bad does it have to get before you’re motivated to care? At this point, we have to pray that he’s full of crap and putting on an act for the electorate, yet your own previous posts indicate that you think that he’s not faking it.
@Scott:
This is what I am talking about.
The fleecing of the Trump voters has begun:
http://www.wsj.com/articles/donald-trumps-financial-advisory-team-stocked-with-wall-streeters-1478730578
@Benjamin Wolf: People with enough money always have somewhere to go.
@Pch101:
Whether he’s faking it or not is irrelevant. My point is that protesting now is pointless and it makes the protesters look like they are protesting the outcome of an election. The time to do that was beforehand, and to vote against the candidate they oppose.
As I said, they have a right to do it but I am questioning the point of expending the time and energy they are now.
@Doug Mataconis: He doesn’t have to propose policies. All he had to do is talk and all we had to do is elect him and now this shit is normalized.
https://twitter.com/ShaunKing
I don’t know who Shaun King is, but I’m sure one of the usual idiots will be along soon and tell me how horrible he is and he’s a terrorist and just as bad as or worse than and paid people to attack Trump supporters and is some BLM thug and but but but
Just stop. There are videos. And photos. And news reports. Too many for this to be some kind of hoax or conspiracy or whatever other story you have to tell yourself that it’s not a big deal or that it’s somehow the Democrats fault because black people are racist too blah blah blah.
The reality is the cat’s out of the bag. A significant portion of this country thinks like this, has this in their hearts. I’ve been trying really hard the last two days to be the Good American and listen to people who voted for him and try to unify and move this country forward, but THIS SHIT IS MAKING IT REALLY FUCKING HARD.
So just stop with the excuses and false equivalencies and even true equivalencies. I’m not hearing it today. What I want and need to hear today is our president elect behaving the way our current president has behaved when the shoe was on the other foot: denouncing this kind of behavior clearly, succinctly and in no uncertain terms. Affirming to American that this is not who we are as a people and it is inexcusable.
I’m going to hope real hard that he does, but I’m not holding my breath.
@Benjamin Wolf: He already has arranged for a transfer to Paris; have you not noticed that?
And those of us who speak more than one language often find it very easy to pick up and move elsewhere, especially if we see the handwriting on the wall.
@bill:
Yeah, the tricorn hats were pretty wacky looking. And the ones who had tea bags dangling from them? Beyond wacky.
@Doug Mataconis:
This is how the Tea Party got started. This is the sort of thing that eventually ended the war in Vietnam. (As a plus, it produced some pretty good rock music, too.)
While I don’t welcome the prospect of a group of anti-capitalist left-wing whackjobs driven by conspiracy theories of their own, a grassroots resistance movement motivated by concerns for equality and protecting the vulnerable may be what the doctor ordered in order to get us through this relatively unscathed.
Again, I should point out that there is an element of Trump supporters who literally want to kill people, including people like me. Do you want to do anything about that?
@grumpy realist:
You mean that there is a Paris aside from the one in Texas? I’ll have to look that one up.
Not surprised to see you celebrate “The High Moral Ground” claimed by
David Duke and the KKK.
@Pch101:..I worked in Paris Il and I drove through Paris KY.
You need to get out more!
@Mr. Bluster:
I’ve actually been to Paris, Illinois. Even ate lunch there once, so I’m practically a local.
@Mr. Bluster: The trash WILL be taken out. The rioting mobs will not prevail. There are three possibilities:
1) The rioters will sober up and stop themselves.
2) The authorities will get fed up and stop them.
3) The targets of the rioters’ wrath will defend themselves.
Let me draw you a picture. No, let me draw you two pictures. Are you familiar with Venn diagrams?
Draw a circle and call it “the rioters who are so mad about Trump winning.” Now draw a circle that includes “rioters who believe very strongly in gun control.”
Now draw a second circle and call it “Trump voters.” Draw another circle that is “Trump supporters who own guns.”
There is a great deal of overlap in both circles. Letting the first group get to the point where they can pose a credible threat will end in blood.
Here are a couple of articles from CNN about what’s going on right now.
Or this one:
If the guy in the second link had had a gun, he would have been more than justified in shooting his attackers. And then promptly condemned as a racist murderer for defending himself from people who didn’t have guns.
These screaming garbage babies rioting in the streets are going to be stopped. Who do you want to stop them? I’m hoping they grow up and stop themselves. If not, I hope the cops can stop them.
If not, then Lily is absolutely right. There will be casualties on both sides.”
I didn’t want to risk the moderation machine with a third link, so here’s a little graphic to reinforce my point.
@Pch101: Paris, Maine’s a nothing town whose only claim to “fame” is in producing arguably the vice president with the most badass name who came closer than most to becoming president.
@bandit:
Do you have any idea how silly you sound. There you sit behind your keyboard telling people to bring it. Dumb.
@Jenos The Deplorable: This is still America and people have a right to speak their minds. I realize that as a Trump supporter you are hoping that will change, but it won’t be that easy to shut people up.
@al-Ameda: Well, not surprisingly, more votes were cast for Democrats in our recent election, and yet Republicans control every branch of government. There are many structural reasons for this, but it is most certainly a singularly depressing fact of our current political life.
That’s called “knowing the rules of the game and playing to win.” The Democrats’ strategy seems to have been “do whatever we feel like, then try to find some way to argue that we really won when we get our asses handed to us.”
Like it or not Republicans have engineered a way to become a majority party in without getting a majority of votes.
It’s called “The Constitution of the United States of America.” The crafty Republicans invented a time machine and implemented it about 80 years before the Republican party even existed. You apparently have never heard of if. You might wanna give it a read some time.
I’m not sure why that’s acceptable to the American people, but it is.
Because they, unlike you, have heard of the Constitution.
Jenos hears Reagan whispering from the grave.
@Doug Mataconis: Doug, I would have agreed with you 2 years ago, but Trump has proven to people that showing your ass works. I am sad to say that, but I think it is true. A mandate is something Reagan could claim, maybe even Obama…Trump won the election, but I don’t think he won the hearts of the American people. Most of them hate or fear him..or both.
@Mr. Bluster: Just what part of ” I’m hoping they grow up and stop themselves. If not, I hope the cops can stop them.” did you not understand?
The only thing I regret about saying that was that I should have said “I hope the cops stop them.” The “can” was ill-phrased there.
Just what part of what I said do you disagree with, or not understand?
@Jenos The Deplorable: We do not elect people today the way founders originally intended. That is just a fact. They did not even have tickets…the man who won the most was President and the person who came in second was vice President. And speaking of the Founders I doubt if they would have supported a nominee like Trump who does not even understand the Constitution much less support it. I left the party over this candidate…but then again, the neo nazis and their ilk came into the party, so you don’t need people like me anymore. Yet, but someday there will be a price to pay for nominating a man who got the endorsement of the KKK.
@James Joyner: My macho fantasies has women throwing themselves at me not me physically forcing my way on women who don’t want me….
Keep on excusing his admission of sexual assault James…
“Protesting the fact of Trump’s election is un-American. ”
I am so incredibly tired of this. Who are you to say what is American or not? Why should your judgment of what it means to be an American hold more value than any other? I am so tired of conservatives being the determiners of who is a real American. You shouldn’t be.
Why get so worked up about a comparatively small amount of property damage/inconvenience compared to the large scale damage caused by voter suppression, wage disparity, and going into a senseless war?
Math and scale seem to be a true weakness with even the seemingly intelligent.
Amazing.
@Pch101: You guys on the right seem to be oblivious to the fact that Trump has declared war on certain groups of people.
If by “has declared war” on certain groups of people” you mean “is not a Democrat,” I think we’re all quite aware of that.
Mike
@Pch101: You guys on the right seem to be oblivious to the fact that Trump has declared war on certain groups of people.
If by “has declared war” on certain groups of people” you mean “is not a Democrat,” I think we’re all quite aware of that.
Mike
@michilines: Why get so worked up about a comparatively small amount of property damage/inconvenience compared to the large scale damage caused by voter suppression, wage disparity, and going into a senseless war?
You mean the wage disparity Hillary did nothing about in all her years in Washington? The senseless war she voted for?
Mike
@MBunge:
You should stop digging.
“We gotta try to make Trump a one term President.”
-Mitch McConnell, probably.
@MBunge: Senseless war? Whatever you might think of that, most Republicans supported it. Including Trump…and despite what Trump might have said Saddam was not a killer of terrorists. He was a supporter of terrorists and I doubt if the world would be better today with him in it. And Hillary Clinton did support wage equality. Republicans by and large simply did not believe it existed.
@MBunge:” You mean the wage disparity Hillary did nothing about in all her years in Washington? The senseless war she voted for?”
I’m referring to the relative importance of James and Doug getting worked up about some limited property damage compared to what the president of the U.S. and his party did in the years 2000 to 2008. I hope that clarifies it somewhat for you.
I have been called un-American and not a real American for years by conservatives like James and Doug. I don’t really think I deserve that label, nor do the protesters. James and Doug are not the measure of patriotism or American-ness, nor am I.
As to your particular criticism of my comment, you don’t seem to have been around or remember the lead up to the war, nor do you understand that one person can’t change the wage issue in the U.S., but a party can.
@michael reynolds: Of course it isn’t just talk. Jesus Christ, he referred past tense to being able to get away with it.
Of these allegations…
1. One was a civil lawsuit that claimed rape and was dropped.
2. Another groping claim has been refuted by a witness.
3. Pretty much all of the other behavior described involves momentary butt squeezes, a couple of boob touches and kissing women.
Should women have to put up with any of that? No. But Trump is by and large accused of being a boorish jackass who deserved a slap or a kick to the jimmy, not a sexual predator.
Mike
.
So much anger. So sad, really, how poorly the winners are dealing with winning.
Must not have a lot of practice at it… and likely some will find out in about 2 years that they really didn’t win anything at all. So sad for them.
Still, what helped me put this into perspective, and laugh again, was Colbert’s monologue last night.
http://www.vulture.com/2016/11/watch-stephen-colberts-post-election-monologue.html
No matter what, we can all be a sexy kitty!
@MBunge:
LOL, what are you, 90? Did you just walk out of a time machine from the 1940s?
We call that “battery”. It’s illegal, and it’s how a misogynist asshole treats women.
smdh …
@MBunge: But Trump is by and large accused of being a boorish jackass who deserved a slap or a kick to the jimmy, not a sexual predator.
Says a man who has probably never experienced it, just like James and Doug.
I’m with other commenters here — jees you have wives, mothers, sisters, daughters . . . how do you think it feels for them? Is there no empathy for people in your own family?
Wow the White privilege is blinding on OTB this evening.
“Yeah…that steaming pile of a candidate we sold you on backing. Well she lost–we OUT! Buh-Bye”
I distinctly remember highlighting that the Obama Coalition–was HIS coalition. And the assumption that it would come out for HRC just because Trump is so horrible–was not only dumb but pseudo-racist. White folk always going to find a way to marginalize the accomplishments of a Black man by thinking they can do the same thing. Well guess what? She PREDICTABLY underperformed with key demographics of the Obama Coalition and LOST to DONALD FREAKING TRUMP. The worse MFing candidate EVER. EVER. One more time without capslock– ever.
Look–damn all this hand wringing and feinting. You need to get your arses together with a plan to win back the suburbs. She lost the suburbs! Trump salvaged ONLY a 6 point loss with COLLEGE EDUCATED white women. How on earth is that possible? That ain’t racism–they been voting blue for a while…that’s a bad candidate. HRC has a great Resume–but she doesn’t have “It”. Lots of people have a great resume but lack the intangibles needed for a job. There are capable women with “It”—just not her. The telling stat is that among people that could not stand Hillary or Trump. Those voters broke for Trump 2-1. That’s people gambling on the Devil they don’t know.
Dont get me wrong–I can’t stand your party–or theirs because both of them are prejudiced against black people. But I do admit the Democratic party is LESS prejudice and we need 2 functioning parties to keep them from becoming hollow institutions. Like they almost are now–well, one already is.
In a perfect world–I’d like the Repubs to reach out to minorities and the Democrats to reach out to rural folks. But first the White Ds and Rs going to have to resolve this political civil war you got going. Plus, the 2020 census is coming up…redistricting for 10 years is up for grabs…its work to do–get to it.
@HarvardLaw92:
Yeah, I don’t think this is the exact moment you should be telling anyone else what to do.
HarvardLaw92, October 9 – “Every Republican strategist in my contacts list is privately saying the same thing – the presidency is lost. They’re focused at this point on trying to contain the down ballot damage, but (again, privately), they’re now worried about losing Congress as well. One of them made the comment earlier today that there are certainly more bad optics / even worse oppo releases just waiting to drop on their heads. Trump’s lifelong love affair with himself and with microphones makes that utterly unavoidable, and the Dems have funded OpRes extremely well in this cycle. The next 30 days are going to be a constantly playing defense whack-a-mole circus / death of a thousand cuts for the GOP.
It’s not a good time to be a professional political operative if you’re a Republican.”
HarvardLaw92, October 9 – “when it comes to formulating political strategy on a macro level, she’s world class IMO. As talented as her husband is at retail politics, the behind the scenes stuff involved her far more than most would imagine. You can expect the next 30 days to be a painful experience for the GOP.”
HarvardLaw92, September 24 – “Imagine what Trump’s campaign, imploding disaster that it still is, would look like if they’d decided to close their checkbooks and head for the Bahamas instead.”
And of course, HarvardLaw92, November 8 –
“Clinton 50
Trump 44
Johnson 3
Stein/Other 1
Dems win the electoral with
Clinton / Kaine 328
Trump/Pence 204
McMullin 6”
McMullin 6? Did you take a photo of that shovel after beating yourself over the head with it?
Thanks, though, for inspiring a little trip down memory lane. It’s like this campaign turned the lot of you into Bill Kristol clones. I enjoyed laughing myself silly.
Mike
@MBunge:
Yea, I’d hide from the remark behind an ad hominem too if I were you 🙂
All these infantile “I’m leaving” idle,threats.
Look, I’ve got an in on the comfort dog market, so contact me and I’ll make you a good deal, you poor dears.
So…was assuming that the Clinton Coalition would come out for Gore dumb and pseudo-racist? The Bush Coaltion (such as it was) for McCain and Romney? I hope it isn’t racist to point out that Democrats have done horribly on the state level on Obama’s watch…so yes, indeed, there is a lot of work to do…
@MBunge: No. But Trump is by and large accused of being a boorish jackass who deserved a slap or a kick to the jimmy, not a sexual predator.
Let me clarify that for you, Mike: Trump is a boorish jackass, but he’s no Bill Clinton or Anthony Weiner. He’s not even a Ted Kennedy.
@michilines: I’m with other commenters here — jees you have wives, mothers, sisters, daughters . . . how do you think it feels for them? Is there no empathy for people in your own family?
The vast majority of women I know would 1) deal with the boor appropriately, then 2) deal with me for being so sexist that I thought they needed my protection.
What kind of delicate flowers do you have around you that they need a big, strong man to defend their honor?
@MBunge: 2. Another groping claim has been refuted by a witness.
3. Pretty much all of the other behavior described involves momentary butt squeezes, a couple of boob touches and kissing women.
The witness was a man who was 17 at the time, claimed he was alone and traveling in first class. In addition, back in 2014 he claimed that as a 17 year old he helped “hire” underage boys for sex parties with high ranking British politicians. Numerous people have said his timeline on that claim is preposterous, and he has no credibility.
#3 WTF? This is no big deal to you? You sound like you are as much of a pig toward women as Trump is. Fortunately you wont be POTUS, unfortunately he will be.
@MBunge: Thanks, though, for inspiring a little trip down memory lane.
Your ideas are intriguing to me and I wish to subscribe to your newsletter.
But be careful… you’re dealing with a Harvard alum here. He might club you with his degree, then strangle you with his ivy.
@Jenos The Deplorable: You really don’t think its a big deal that there are more than a dozen women making the same claims, they are all a bunch of delicate flowers. I assume you think they are just a bunch of hysterical women making a big deal when they should be flattered. WTF is wrong with you? I have a 19 year old niece ,and if some pig like Trump did that to her and I was anywhere near I would like to chop their nuts off. As Harvardlaw92 said its illegal, and if you think its no big deal it really is a testament to your complete lack of character.
@Jenos The Deplorable:
Even if the female can fight it off, the assault either happened or was attempted nonetheless.
You don’t have to be weak to appreciate help. You do have to be an as**ole to think that just because someone can fend off that type of attack that it’s okay.
You’ve made it clear that just because a woman might be able to defend herself and that you might get your feelings hurt for trying to defend her that sexual assault is okay.
Nice little situation you’ve painted yourself into. You don’t have to care or do a damn thing and feel alright about it.
Well done, dude.
@michilines: I’m with other commenters here — jees you have wives, mothers, sisters, daughters . . . how do you think it feels for them? Is there no empathy for people in your own family?
I’m guessing they would have no empathy for women in their own family if it happened to them. Maybe full blown rape they might care a bit, but just a little groping? They should be flattered. These are the sort of jackasses that have a “she asked for it” mentality.
@Senyordave: You really don’t think its a big deal that there are more than a dozen women making the same claims, they are all a bunch of delicate flowers.
Why are you giving such credibility to a bunch of nuts and sluts?
@Senyordave:
Doubtful. There is enough proof out there that even families doubt any kind of sexual abuse. When did the fear of false accusation become stronger than the fact of assault? Oh, that’s right. It’s always been that way.
For anyone assuming that the Democrats are dead, make of it what you will…
James and Doug, I agree that Trump is our legitimate president despite the fact that he lost the popular vote. Maybe you’ve seen this already but apparently Mr Trump disagrees with us.
http://mashable.com/2012/11/06/trump-reacts-to-election/#ZoQOKionikqG
I just heard from a friend that a major university in Houston is considering staying open over the winter break because their international students are afraid if they go home they won’t be able to come back to finish their degrees.
There are immediate consequences to this election.
@michael reynolds:
Pick New Zealand. Gorgeous nature. Also one of the best places in the world to survive a total nuclear war. Drifting fallout from anything hitting Australia’s east coast might be an issue, so Perth, Australia might be the better option, very isolated.
No idea about the schools in New Zealand or Australia though.
@michilines: I just heard from a friend that a major university in Houston is considering staying open over the winter break because their international students are afraid if they go home they won’t be able to come back to finish their degrees.
There are immediate consequences to this election.
This is 1) hearsay that is 2) from an anonymous source and 3) lacking in actual verifiable details that reports 4) gullible, ignorant, stupid people are considering something stupid over 5) something that simply cannot happen.
The “immediate consequence” of your comment should be laughter, head-shaking, and consumption of more adult beverages.
@Jenos The Deplorable:
Sure you can doubt me, but I’m sure that the university considering this action is not the only one. Since you are probably not familiar with the university environment, your distrust is expected.
@michilines: The reason I distrust it is because, quite simply, it’s too good to be true. It confirms so many of my opinions about the laughable state of so-called “higher education.” That degree of credulity, hysteria, and downright idiocy is too, too delicious.
I remember the days when colleges were supposed to prepare students for the real world, not protect them from any reality they might not like.
I’d like to send my sincere thanks to those who made this all possible, losing the election and leaving the levers of government almost exclusively in Republican hands.
First, the “Elegant Black Man” whose arrogance and misguided policies managed to galvanize voters against him like no a Republican could. Second, to Donna Brazile (and DWS) for single mindedly engineering the Democrats coronation of one of the most over-rated and feckless candidates in memory. With an assist, the insufferable press who laid it all out to the electorate that they had better get to the ballot box before all control was usurped by the elitists of the country. Did someone say something about awakening a giant? It was something to behold.
Congratulations, and thank you, oDemocrats; you shot your dicxks off.
@al-Ameda: A 200,000 vote margin in a 100 million vote total could actually be slippage and statistically irrelevant. Get over yourself. Republicans won the trifecta–The Presidency, The Senate and The House.
Yes, they will pick the next Supreme Court Justice(s) too.
Just as important is the fact that they control the same three levels of government in 30+ states. That will impact the next 20 years or so through the design of Congressional Districts.
Coastal elites were pwned by their buddies in the media into believing they were still the elite of America.
Here is a very good reason to stop considering Harvard Law grads for the SCOTUS and other judgeships.
@An Interested Party: Really? Gore distanced himself from Clinton so he effectively attempted to build his own coalition. Last I checked Romney and McCain were white like Bush so no racism there. Bush also hadn’t run the top 2 Presidential campaigns OF ALL TIME in terms of vote turn out. Bush success could have reasonably been expected by Romney and McCain.
Since you bring up racism and State politics–yes. Democrats talk a good game about caring for us–but most Black people live in the south—so their refusal to try to make ANY meaningful inroads at the State and Local level is a mixed signal about their true commitment. The record amount of Republican officials beneath the Federal level is an indictment of this neglect.
Ironically, it is Obama himself who is partially responsible for the state-level rot…
@JKB:
Absolutely. Why go for the best when you can recruit from Trade Tech? You’ll certainly save money.
@Doug Mataconis:
I am well aware of this–my quibble is with your use of the word mandate. Winning and winning a mandate are two very different things. He won by the skin of his teeth, and the Republican party lost seats in both houses. Barely half of eligible voters participated in this election, meaning he won with just around a quarter of the electorate. Claiming a this is a mandate is, at very least, a misuse of the commonly accepted definition of the word. Congress and President Trump risk overplaying the hand they were dealt if they think this election provides them carte blanche.
@Jenos The Deplorable: Of course to be fair, the vast majority of women Jenos knows are digital images, blow-up dolls, and complete strangers who cross the street to avoid him.
@wr: You should speak more respectfully of your mother, punk.
@Jenos The Deplorable: Lordy, are you ever one hot mess. How you manage to come off as sweaty and bug-eyed over the intertubes is quite the feat.
@James Joyner:
I’m ashamed and horrified you have daughters.
@becca: becca, if you look at wr’s comment history, giving him even THAT much respect was more than he deserves.
These Protestors were identified as the Progressive Occupy groups. They are funded by Democrat Donor George Soros. This isn’t an organic movement.. its all organized and paid for
@Scttg: Yep, that how it works. Just like the Tea Party.
@Pch101: Yeah, Doug. Trump has ALREADY proposed this stuff. We’ll have to see if he follow up on it, but The Wall (TM), the Muslim ban/registry, the mass deportations…they were the entree, not the side, of the Trump campaign.
@Jenos The Deplorable: “It confirms so many of my opinions about the laughable state of so-called “higher education.”
Perhaps if you’d graduated from the fifth grade you might have gone to college, and then your opinions about higher education would have some basis in experience.
@Jenos The Deplorable: You know my mother? I guess I wouldn’t be completely surprised, since she spent many decades as a psychotherapist and you are clearly in need of serious help.
Still, please, give me details. How long have you known her? Did you send her a condolence card when my father died? Does she give you a warm smile when you wash her windshield and offer to check her oil?
Love to know more, Jenos. Please tell me all about your relationship with her.
Sometimes I feel people here act like 12 year olds. Grow up
@James Joyner:
The self-defense classes at the nearby center are full – they’re so desperate for teachers to open up new session I got a recruitment call! You know who’s populating these classes? Young and middle-aged white women. There was a surge in the last few weeks and an absolute flood in the last 4 days. The parking lot is full of cars with Trump bump-stickers driven by concerned women wanting to know when classes start. What I keep hearing over and over again? “I just don’t feel safe anymore”
With all the rape cases lately of men getting slaps on the wrist so “their lives aren’t ruined”, women being killed for rejecting strangers and now the election of the Proud Pussy-Grabber has terrified the women in this deep red county. They may have voted for him for economic reasons but fear the toxic machismo he typifies. That someone made it to the White House talking/acting like he does (even if you buying into the BS locker-room talk excuse) shows that this kind of thing is OK now and from poisoned soil grows truly deadly fruit.
We’re seeing a resurgence of the KKK for exactly that reason. Trump’s normalized horrible, shameful behavior to the point asshats like Duke publicly claim their bigotry with bare censure. Us ladies can see the writing on the wall – disgusting I’m-entitled-to-you men will be emboldened the same way.
@An Interested Party: Typical–Blame the black man. The south has been Red for a generation + –the first half of that time unavoidable so. The Bill Clinton years would have made a good time to start making a play for some of these rural areas–but no he was too busy repealing Glass-Stegall, Signing NAFTA, expanding the Prison Industrial Complex, smh. The bottom line is the DNC lost its roots to become the party of East/West Coast, Financiers, and kluged together wedge issues. For goodness sake–DEMOCRATS are touting the Dow as an economic measure of success. What happened to Main Street metrics? How about presenting a strategy to help the countries workforce deal with the disruption of robotics and digitization? Obama was able to overcome the limitations of the Party–frankly because hes a once in 20-25 year candidate. Your average candidate will not.
@wr: All you bring to the table are personal insults, and you’re not even good at that.
@KM:
This is one of the most ridiculous things I have ever heard. Talk about enabling behavior.
@HarvardLaw92: Why go for the best …?
That’s marketing. You may appreciate these comments on Harvard and Harvard law by well regarded academics
@Jenos The Deplorable: “All you bring to the table are personal insults, and you’re not even good at that.”
Says the manchild who came up with the zinger “Yeah, so’s your mother.”
You got the God-king you want, little man. Is your life better yet? Or did you wake up to find that you’re still the same sad leader, even if the election has made a lot of people you don’t like unhappy.
Change comes from within. Act like a better person and you’ll feel like a better person. There’s no other way.
@JKB:
Everybody hates what they can never be …
@wr: You got the God-king you want, little man.
You really are a stupid, narrow-minded, obsessive little fsck, aren’t you?
I didn’t vote for Trump in the primary. I didn’t want him as the nominee. Your Lord High Queen Infirm worked like hell to get him the nomination. She wanted the face-off she got last Tuesday, and she was the one who had her faces slapped off. (Both of them — her “public” and “private” ones.)
You lost, loser, Start practicing saying “President Trump,” because you’ll have YEARS to say it.
Because YOUR Queen Brain Damage picked him.
@HarvardLaw92: Hey, if JKB chooses to “self-identify” as a Harvard Alum (valedictorian, no less), who are you to challenge that choice? What kind of hater and oppressor are you?
@Pch101: really, the tea party crowd were boring as they too had jobs and couldn’t stay up playing hacky-sack and beating bongos while burning/looting unrelated businesses.
just making a point, as if i tried to argue with an idiot…… well you know- or do you?
@Jenos The Deplorable: Okay, since you seem to be concerned with the quality of my repartee today, a little hint: If I refer to the object of your current man-crush as your God-king and you come back to call the candidate for whom I voted Lord High Queen Infirm (whatever the hell that means) or any other kind of royalty, you look like an ignorant child completely incapable of coming up with anything the slightest bit original and is reduced to screaming “I’m rubber, you’re glue!”
We all know Trump is your candidate, and we did long before you started giving him the patented Jenos tongue bath around here.
So when your minimum wage is cut and your health care is cancelled and you have to go back to stealing from hospitals, when any hope of retirement is destroyed along with Social Security, remember how happily you can live on that one little bit of warm feeling you got thinking that the election made people better than you unhappy.
Then you can freeze to death in the street.
@wr: Lord High Queen Infirm (whatever the hell that means)
It means that Hillary Clinton, by her own admission under oath to the FBI, is brain-damaged, in addition to all her other wonderful qualities.
What’s your excuse? What’s the reason you immediately resort to crass homoerotic innuendo when you get the most desperate to insult people? It doesn’t anger me in the least; I was “straight, but not narrow” back before it was cool. All it does is make me chortle a little, because it always means you’re at your wit’s end. (Note the singular; giving you credit for a single wit is an act of charity.)
And as much as you keep shoving your head in the sand (which must be a refreshing change from shoving up your fundament), Hillary and the DNC wanted Trump to get the nomination. They put a hell of a lot of money and effort into getting him that nomination. Just how long do you intend to pretend that never happened, and give them a pass for Trump’s victory?
I voted for Ted Cruz (God willing, one day “Associate Justice Ted Cruz” or even “Chief Justice Ted Cruz”) in the primary. If I’d had my way, Trump would have been stopped in the primaries. But my one little vote was crushed by Hillary and the DNC, who majorly misunderestimated what Trump would do in the general.
But back on topic… to steal an old riff, I was told that if I voted for Trump, there would be a resurgence in violence and intolerance. Between the riots, the CEO of GrubHub telling all his employees that any Trump voters could just resign, and several other examples, I see they were right!
@Jim Brown 32:
Who bears the responsibility for the Republican dominance of the past eight years? Bill Clinton did make a play for the rural areas as he was the last Democratic President to win the white working class vote…granted, his globalist solutions didn’t do much to help many working class folks…but Trump’s empty promises aren’t going to help them either…as for the Democrat’s embrace of the high finance types–that was part of the party’s move to the center…I’m not saying that was a good thing or a bad thing but I’m sure they got tired of getting clobbered in presidential elections…as for a strategy to help the country’s workforce deal with the disruption of robotics and digitization, is any politician/political party offering solutions for that? Obama, much like Clinton, was indeed a once in a 20-25 year candidate…as presidential elections of at least the last 36 years have shown, the more charismatic candidate always wins…
@An Interested Party: Who bears the responsibility for the Republican dominance of the past eight years?
Apparently you either just woke up, Rip Van Winkle, or you can’t do math, or you’re chemically impaired. In 2009, the Democrats had the White House and both Houses, and a lot of people were crowing about how the GOP was dead and would never get close to the reins of power. And that lasted until the 2010 elections.
Which were 6 years ago.
And Obama’s still in office for a couple months more.
@An Interested Party: Obama, much like Clinton, was indeed a once in a 20-25 year candidate…as presidential elections of at least the last 36 years have shown, the more charismatic candidate always wins…
I’ve said, repeatedly, that Trump had the passion element going for him. There were a lot of people who voted for him because they really liked him. There were a lot of people who voted for Hillary because they really didn’t like him. And there were a lot of people who voted for Trump because they really didn’t like Hillary.
There weren’t a lot of people who really liked Hillary.
And one exception to your observation would be 1988, Bush vs. Dukakis. I believe Dave Barry, in his Year In Review for that year, said something like “The Union Of Deranged Loners With Guns have announced that they are sitting out this year’s presidential election. Their spokesman said that anyone who cares enough about either candidate to shoot one of them should seek psychiatric help.”
Oh pardon me, I mistyped…to help with that I would ask you for some drugs from your past unpaid hospital stay, but I’m sure you’ve used them all up by now…
@An Interested Party: Oh pardon me, I mistyped
If you’d used the actual number, instead of the word, that might fly. But you typed out the word.
Which probably means you wanted to whitewash Obama’s first two years, when we were all treated to “I won” and “elections have consequences” and “After they drove the car into the ditch, made it as difficult as possible for us to pull it back, now they want the keys back. “No! You can’t drive. We don’t want to have to go back into the ditch. We just got the car out.”
And after 2010, the Republicans didn’t “dominate.” They “checked.” Obama’s advancing agenda was slowed, not stopped, while the Republicans’ agenda went nowhere. We had six years of Obama finding new and interesting (at extraconstitutional) ways to get his way when the traditional (Constitutional) ways were stymied.
And now we have all those delightful little precedents for the president to get his way when the Constitutional methods fail him… in the (“not small at all, trust me”) hands of Donald J. Trump.
I spent too many years decrying executive overreach. I’m tired. It’s your turn to start harping on it.
@Jenos The Deplorable: Sorry, did you have a point? Nodded off there.
@wr: Don’t let me keep you awake. You’re a far more valued contributor when you’re asleep.
@MBunge: and butt and boob squeezes aren’t sexual assault?
It’s amazing how people excuse violence against women that they would feel horrified about if it happened to them.
Get out the hatpins, ladies…..
@grumpy realist: I’m sure in his mind it’s a beautiful woman that’s squeezing his butt.
I’m pretty sure if a gay guy treated him that way things would be vastly different…..