Cheney Way Behind

See is paying the price for her defense of democracy.

The Caspar Star-Tribune reports, The poll results are in: Hageman holds commanding lead over Cheney.

Natural resources attorney Harriet Hageman leads Cheney 52% to 30%, the poll shows. No other challenger received more than 5% support. Only 11% of voters were undecided.

The poll, conducted for the Star-Tribune by Mason-Dixon Polling & Strategy, surveyed 1,100 registered Wyoming voters likely to participate in the primary, resulting in a margin of error of plus or minus 3 percent, according to Brad Coker, Mason-Dixon managing director.

While the Cheney-Hageman race is one of the nation’s most closely watched, this is the first independent, public in-state poll to be conducted. It was performed from July 7 to July 11 – shortly after early voting began here.

The odds of this poll being off enough to be wrong in these results is practically zero. Mason-Dixon is a reputable polling agency (they have an A- minus rating at FiveThirtyEight) and while primaries are trickier to poll than general elections, a 22-point gap is huge (especially in the context of early voting having already started).

So, I would say that Cheney deserves recognition for putting at least her short-term, and perhaps longer-term, political career on the line here to stand up for basic democratic practices and in pursuit of the public presentation of the facts about January 6th. She has behaved in public the way more craven politicians like Kevin McCarthy behaved behind closed doors (until it became clear to him that the route his Precious (e.g., the Speakership) ran through Mar-a-Lago, not through protecting American democracy).

In regards to the possibility of Cheney running as an independent in November, Wyoming has a “sore loser” law that would preclude her from losing the primary and then running as an independent in the general election. If she wanted to go that route, she would have had to have skipped the GOP primary. In truth, the polling related to the primary suggests to me that she would have had a hard time winning that way (really, impossible). Even if the Democrats did not run a candidate and threw support behind Cheney, the state is so overwhelmingly Republican, with Republican support overwhelmingly against Cheney that the math just doesn’t work. (Plus, if Wyoming Dems endorsed here, that would just be more evidence of her traitor status).

So, unlike Mike Pence, who is trying to have his cake and eat it too (i.e., he deserves credit for doing the right thing on January 6th, 2021 in the face of pressure from Trump, he also wants to leverage his time in the Trump administration to his political advantage–not to mention that he helped lend legitimacy to Trump’s initial run for office, and later to the administration as veep). A remarkable thing about Pence is that he seems to think he has a shot at being the GOP presidential nominee at some point, and therefore maybe be president (denial is not just a river in Egypt, as the saying goes). However, I honestly think his chances of using the Trump presidency as a pathway to the Oval Office were always slim. Consider that he was always a bit of a lightweight and, really, the vice presidency is far from an automatic pathway to the White House. Further, he isn’t MAGA enough to be Trump 2.0. That is a job for someone like DeSantis.

This is all the more true now that a chunk of MAGA-Americans think that he betrayed them. If Pence wanted to go down in history in a positive way, he would be fully cooperating with the January 6th committee. Instead, he clings to vain hopes of being president.

FILED UNDER: Campaign 2022, US Politics, , , , , ,
Steven L. Taylor
About Steven L. Taylor
Steven L. Taylor is a Professor of Political Science and a College of Arts and Sciences Dean. His main areas of expertise include parties, elections, and the institutional design of democracies. His most recent book is the co-authored A Different Democracy: American Government in a 31-Country Perspective. He earned his Ph.D. from the University of Texas and his BA from the University of California, Irvine. He has been blogging since 2003 (originally at the now defunct Poliblog). Follow Steven on Twitter

Comments

  1. James Joyner says:

    The headline reminds me of the Charlie Daniels song. The irony being that she’s way behind precisely because she’s not willing to make a deal.

    4
  2. @James Joyner: Indeed.

    3
  3. gVOR08 says:

    In the context of Pence doing the right thing, remember that the conspiracy was out of sight and hadn’t yet done anything blatantly illegal in broad daylight. They asked Pence to be the one to stand up in front of God, a joint session of congress, and CSPAN and break the law. If things went south, which they almost certainly would, Pence was the one holding the bag. Doesn’t take a lot of courage to decline to be the flag bearer. It’s been reported Pence thinks God wants him to be president. Chuckles Koch too. So he thinks he can still overcome any setback. I have a picture of Pence at the Pearly Gates as God explains, “I gave you the 25th amendment.”

    And I see people are beginning to make the obvious connection between missing Secret Service texts and Pence refusing to get in the car.

    4
  4. Scott F. says:

    There’s some ruthlessness that runs in the Cheney family DNA, so I suspect Liz Cheney will go down swinging.

    I say this to my Republican colleagues who are defending the indefensible: there will come a day when Donald Trump is gone, but your dishonor will remain.

    I would think losing the WY primary will relieve her of any hesitancy to go after the dishonorable ones she’s made clear have stained her party. Here’s hoping she claims some scalps.

    3
  5. Just nutha ignint cracker says:

    @Scott F.: I’m interested in speculations of others about how Liz Cheney “goes after” whoever one imagines might be the targets.

    I know how I would do it, but that’s only an argument for why the nation is better off with an unarmed cracker.

    2
  6. Smooth Jazz says:

    Bye Felicia. No worries; Cheney may have vaporized her career over a weird personnel obsession with 1 man, but the Hate Trump grift is lucrative in DC & $millions are available for fake conservatives on MSNBC, CNN, CBS, ABC etc that present just 1 side of the story.

    Conservatives see right through her unwillingness to share the other side of the story — ie when Trump said to march “Peacefully and Patriotically” to the Capitol on Jan 6. Or to only share portions of texts that suggest something nefarious, while omitting the parts that exonerate Trump. Or to only show interviews that buttresses her & the Dems warped view, but not showing interviews that highlight election integrity anomalies that could have made a difference such the suspect WI drop boxes that there just outlawed and these other questions as outlined in this article https://justthenews.com/politics-policy/elections/bombshells-belie-big-lie-21-confirmed-illegalities-irregularities-2020

    See or hear no evil, so let’s pretend none exists.

    Perhaps the biggest reason WY Repubs are going to kick Cheney to the curb is because she sat idly by as the DC cocoon & media harassed Trump for 5 years & never gave the guy a chance to do his job with fake scandal after fake scandal. The Russian Collusion scam. The pee tape. Dirty dossier. FBI lawyers doctoring Emails. Russian bounty hoax. FISA abuse. Alfa Bank hoax. Prague. Dead soldier “losers” & “suckers” ruse. Impeachment hoaxes 1 & 2. All designed to hobble the guy. Liz never said a word to defend the blatant harassment of Trump, though she did get sucked into the DC groupthink on the Russian bounty story which turned out to be a lie like all the other hoaxers.

    Through it all, Trump delivered a robust economy, historic stock market, low gas & inflation, etc even as he was harassed 24X7.

    Bye Felicia Cheney; MSNBC, CNN & The View are waiting.

    1
  7. CSK says:

    @Smooth Jazz:
    Has it occurred to you that Trump’s injunction to march “peacefully and patriotically” might have been a cover for baser motives? Just like the typical mob boss.

    In any case, the crowd appears to have ignored his injunction.

    Building a gallows and chanting “hang Mike Pence” does not strike me as peaceful and patriotic. Nor does the threat to find Nancy Pelosi and “put a bullet through that bitch’s brain.”

    5
  8. Mister Bluster says:

    @CSK:..Building a gallows and chanting “hang Mike Pence” does not strike me as peaceful and patriotic. Nor does the threat to find Nancy Pelosi and “put a bullet through that bitch’s brain.”

    See or hear no evil, so let’s pretend none exists.

    …nothing like taking your own advice…

    1
  9. Smooth Jazz says:

    @CSK:

    “Has it occurred to you that Trump’s injunction to march “peacefully and patriotically” might have been a cover for baser motives?”

    How do you even know if it was a comment to cover? I don’t know any mind readers; do you? Listening to the tape of his speech over & over sounds to me like he was sincere about that comment, though angry about the election administration in certain states & outcome.

    In our system, we don’t indict a POTUS of the opposing party because we “think” they may have meant something else when they said to march peacefully. Or because we don’t like them. Or because they say stupid stuff or they are “cray cray”. Or because a bunch of hooligans’ upset about the election rioted at the Capitol. Or because we don’t like what he was doing while the riot was underway.

    All this pressure by the DC Dem ecosystem & media to indict Trump based on thought crimes is unseemly & weird. Mueller couldn’t do it, so let’s make up a crime that Trump sat idly by while people rioted.

    No wonder more and more people think this J6 Committee is 1 sided & irrelevant. Cheney is letting her personal bias cloud her judgement & sense of fairness and this is why the people of WY have had enough of her.

  10. Smooth Jazz says:

    @Mister Bluster:

    “Building a gallows and chanting “hang Mike Pence” does not strike me as peaceful and patriotic. Nor does the threat to find Nancy Pelosi and “put a bullet through that bitch’s brain.”

    That has nothing to do with Trump. We all agree the people who rioted at the Capitol should be brought to justice. Just like the rioters in Summer of 2020 resulted in deaths & destruction of many livelihoods.

    Cheney is on a vendetta to get DOJ to charge Trump with an imaginary crime. For what exactly? For having a bunch of crazy people around him that wanted to challenge an election that was administered under abnormal rules due to COVID? For saying stupid stuff? For not responding during the riot the way she would have responded?

    It’s just unseemly that the DC crowd is pushing DOJ to indict a political opponent, while half of the Country thinks this J6 Committee is on a political vendetta & the vast majority of Repubs have major questions about the election including many who think it was stolen.

    For a DOJ indictment to have any credibility you need Nixon type certainty where 70%-80% of Repubs think he committed crimes. You need that type of buy in from the other party to ensure half of the Country doesn’t view it as a political charade to appease CNN & MSNBC types and the DC cocoon.

  11. Thomm says:

    @Smooth Jazz: a fake black man that claims to like fake jazz calling Liz Cheney a fake conservative. The irony is so rich.

    7
  12. Flat Earth Luddite says:

    @Smooth Jazz:
    @Smooth Jazz:
    @Smooth Jazz:
    Whoa. And wowsers, Penny.

    Excuse me, sir/madam, might I enquire as to where you purchase that fine smoke you’re enjoying, and how much it costs per ounce? Mein Gott, and I thought I was delusional. Y’all sure got this poor Luddite beat all to heck and gone!

    5
  13. dazedandconfused says:

    The D’s should encourage a turnout to save her. One can change party affiliations at any time in Wyoming. https://ballotpedia.org/Primary_elections_in_Wyoming

    Might seem counter-intuitive but the odds of a D winning her seat are practically nil and it’s either having to deal with Cheney or yet another MAGA twit.

  14. @dazedandconfused: I am sure many WY Dems will, but IIRC, it would take pretty much all of them showing up to change the outcome. This seems rather unlikely.

  15. DK says:

    @Smooth Jazz:

    No wonder more and more people think this J6 Committee is 1 sided & irrelevant.

    And over here in realityland, 60% of Americans view the committee’s investigation as “fair and impartial” and about the same are following news about hearings.

    You’re as big a liar as Dementia Donald, the sore loser who colluded with Russian cyberwar on US voters, denied Ukraine military aid to blackmail Zelensky and weaken NATO on Putin’s behalf, and then sent a mob to assassinate politicians and destroy democracy according to — among others — the Jan 6 terrorists themselves. And who is now under investigation for stealing and destroying classified documents.

    No wonder the White House, Senate, House, Arizona and Georgia flipped blue in only fours years, due to the the failed leadership of liar, criminal, Putin-puppet traitor, and amoral thug Trump. He should just go back to making gross comments about how he wants to bang his daughter.

    4
  16. Smooth Jazz says:

    @Thomm:

    “a fake black man that claims to like fake jazz calling Liz Cheney a fake conservative. The irony is so rich.”

    LOL. What’s rich is a far left rando commenter on a left wing blog making claims that he or she cannot back up about anonymous people on message boards. It does fit a pattern of leftists trying to buttonhole black, Hispanics & other minorities to think and act a certain way. Maybe that is why Hispanics & Blacks are increasingly turning to the Repub party as the failed POTUS you suport takes this country down a rabbit hole. Both my parents are light skin Jamaicans. & while I got my BS from Syracuse Univ & MBA for Rutgers, I did grow up in Bed-Stuy & Brownsville, Brooklyn, NY. As hood as it gets. I’m fair skinned, but do consider myself a Black man if that is OK with you.

    For the record, my favorite artists include contemporary saxophonists Gerald Albright & Najee, guitar legends Earl Klugh & Norman Brown, keyboard titans Bobby Lyle & Lonnie Liston Smith, Mizell Brothers productions featuring Dr Donald Byrd & Bobbi Humphrey, and funk bands Shakatak, Spyro Gyra & Swing Out Sister. I also like bands with large horn sections such as Chicago, Earth Wind & Fire and Tower of Power. Some of the music by the above is often categorized as “Smooth Jazz” while some of this music is pure unadulterated funk.

    At the same time, I also have a soft spot for Jazz songstresses including LGs Natalie Cole & Sarah Vaughan as well as Jane Monheit, Karrin Allyson & Patti Austin. LG Bebop titans Charlie Parker, Clifford Brown, John Coltrane & Thelonious Monk are on my Fav lists as well.

    Ayuh.

  17. Smooth Jazz says:

    @DK:

    “You’re as big a liar as Dementia Donald”

    The irony of a Biden supporter on a hard left blog tagging someone with the Dementia label is rich and ironic. Joe Biden is a sick old man who is obviously mentally impaired. The guy “looks” the part: addled, bumbling, confused & hapless who appears to not know where he is on a given day as he shuffles around like a walking carcass. Running him out to give speeches looks like cruelty to the elderly at this point. My favorite part of his speeches is when he reads the teleprompter instructions ala Ron Burgundy in Anchorman. Clearly Biden is not playing with a full deck.

    Donald Trump may be a narcissist, self absorbed, tweets & talks too much, is full of himself, and shoots himself in the foot all too often. But Dementia is not a word I would associate with a guy who looks like he hasn’t lost a step since he first started campaigning for POTUS 7 yrs ago. If I were you, I would pray Senile FJB makes it to the end of this year.

  18. Jim Brown 32 says:

    @Smooth Jazz: Shorter Smooth Jazz: The Media picked on my man!—[waaaaaahhhhhh]

    BTW- Smooth Jazz is neither jazz nor smooth.

    4
  19. Jim Brown 32 says:

    @Smooth Jazz: Jamaican–explains alot about you. A handful of yall middle-class and up will do anything to not be associated with American Blacks….and the lighter the complexion the worse it is. I guess you’re one of the retards.

    Sad–just like an MBA from Rutgers

    2
  20. Jax says:

    @Smooth Jazz:

    Donald Trump was impeached twice, lost the 2020 election by 7,052,770 votes, is entangled in investigations by federal prosecutors (over the Capitol insurrection and over the mishandling of classified White House documents and over election interference) and the District of Columbia attorney general (over financial fraud at the Presidential Inaugural Committee) and the Manhattan district attorney (over financial fraud at the Trump Organization) and the New York State attorney general (over financial fraud at the Trump Organization) and the Westchester County district attorney (over financial fraud at the Trump Organization) and the Fulton County, Georgia, district attorney (over criminal election interference in Georgia) and the Securities and Exchange Commission (over rules violations in plans to take his social-media company public through a SPAC) and the House Select Committee on January 6 (whose hearings are the runaway TV-ratings hit of the summer), yet on Monday, July 11, he was in a fantastic mood.

    You know that saying, right? If you don’t see who the sucker is in the grift, it’s probably you?

    3
  21. Smooth Jazz says:

    @Jim Brown 32:

    “Shorter Smooth Jazz: The Media picked on my man!—[waaaaaahhhhhh]. BTW- Smooth Jazz is neither jazz nor smooth.”

    “Don’t Start None, Won’t Be None”? Just trying to keep my head above water as the Senile POTUS you & your ilk hived up on the rest of us while he hid in his basement takes the Country into the Abyss.

    Btw, The great Jim Brown 32 is a legend at my alma mater Syracuse Univ. At SU he was 44, which has become a special FB number at SU worn by many legends who followed Jim Brown including LG Ernie Davis & Floyd Little. Of course, JB preceded me by many decades but there are reminders throughout the campus of his great accomplishments for the football team.

  22. Smooth Jazz says:

    @Jim Brown 32: @Jim Brown 32:

    Yawn. 1 rando said I wasn’t black. Now another rando is disparaging Jamaicans & Rutgers Univ. Great to see James Joyner middle of the road platform which had spirited back & forth from both sides during the era of GWB has evolved into a cesspool of angry personal insults now that Senile FJB has imploded. Nice.

    People like me from Brownsville & Bed-Stuy have seen it all & yawn at people like you who just throw insults because they can’t hold an argument. I can only imagine the anger as Senile FJB continues to faceplant & Dems get stomped this Nov.

    I will stop by occasionally to laugh at you angry far left ankle loons.

  23. Scott O says:

    @Smooth Jazz:
    “ The guy “looks” the part: addled, bumbling, confused & hapless who appears to not know where he is on a given day as he shuffles around like a walking carcass. Running him out to give speeches looks like cruelty to the elderly at this point.”

    I haven’t seen any evidence of this. Does he bumble a bit, yes. Did Trump bumble a bit, yes. But I don’t think either one could be described as impaired. Can you tell us why you believe this about President Biden?

  24. Jax says:

    @Smooth Jazz: But how do you feel knowing how many fraud investigations (throughout his entire business career, and ESPECIALLY once he became President) your “muscled, completely mentally intact hero” is facing? I mean, that’s a lot of fraud. Maybe you’re not being told the whole story from your media sources.

    2
  25. Jim Brown says:

    @Smooth Jazz: Im s’posed to believe a cat from Brownsville uses the word “ilk”?

    Bwahahahahahahahahahahaha!

    Dude Please.

    I don’t argue with hostile bad-faith actors. Ill return whatever energy you bring…

    The real Jim Brown is Pro-Black try it one time.

    3
  26. Smooth Jazz says:

    @Jim Brown:

    “Im s’posed to believe a cat from Brownsville uses the word “ilk”? The real Jim Brown is Pro-Black try it one time.”

    Jim Brown’s politics is more nuanced. Of course, he was at the forefront of the Civil Rights Movement & Black Power during the 60s, but has become circumspect with age & willing to give people the benefit of the doubt. Importantly, he has been open to listening to others even if they are a different color or on the other side politically. Case in point: https://bleacherreport.com/articles/2792118-jim-brown-on-donald-trump-i-find-myself-really-pulling-for-the-president

    Not sure what “Pro Black” means, but if it means supporting an addled, hapless buffoon POTUS that is driving the Country into a ditch because all Blacks are supposed to think a certain way no matter the impact of an Admin on their lives, NO THANKS.

    Btw, cats from Brownsville & Bed-Stuy say a lot of things when they grow up and leave the hood: “ilk”, “WTF”, “AF”, “H to the Izz-O” & LBNL “Change Clothes” https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CxMrvJ2fxl4

  27. Smooth Jazz says:

    @DK:

    “He should just go back to making gross comments about how he wants to bang his daughter.”

    I responded to a post about Liz Cheney suggesting a personal vendetta is clouding her sense of fairness, & that Repubs — including the good folks of WY — are about to kick her to the curb where she can grift for hits on Hate Trump platforms such as The View & CNN. I also alluded to the fact that Trump was never given a chance to be POTUS given he was hounded 24X7 with Fake scandals his entire term in office. I also made the point that it was unseemly for Cheney & the DC cocoon to try and pressure DOJ to indict their political enemy without an “open and shut” case of a crime given the half the Country still have major questions about the 2020 election and think the 1 sided J6 committee is on a witch-hunt.

    In response, I get responses attacking my race, Grad School & comments suggesting Black people should think a certain way & acquiesce to Liberal masters and groupthink. Now this. Trump says a lot of batshit crazy stuff & I have no idea what you are talking about, but what does Trump’s daughter have to do with anything we’re talking about?

    If I were you, I would stay away from this topic given what Biden’s daughter has to say about him in her diary & the tape of Hunter Biden suggesting his dad is a pedo. If I were you, I would hope the Repubs don’t take over this Nov. After bogus investigations of Trump for 5 yrs, Repubs in Congress are going to rip Dementia FJB & Hunter a new one with investigations of influence peddling (Remember “The Big Guy” the Dem media covered up before the 2020 election).

    Unfortunately, the entire sordid mess about Senile Joe & his daughter, some of which is on tape courtesy of his son Hunter, will be revealed to the world. Couldn’t happen to a nicer crew.

  28. wr says:

    @Smooth Jazz: Say Smoovie,

    I liked you better when you were insisting that Sarah Palin was going to be president. Although you’ll still go with any obvious con reaching into your pocket.

    1
  29. Smooth Jazz says:

    @wr:

    Never insisted Palin be POTUS, though I felt she was a fresh face & preferred the McCain/Palin ticket in the 2008 election. Though when the election was decided, I grew to appreciate Obama & felt he was entitled to a honeymoon all Presidents deserve.

    Trump was never provided the deference of a honeymoon. As soon as the guy was elected it was fake scandal after fake scandal to hobble his Admin. To his credit, Trump did deliver peace & prosperity even as he was attacked 24X7 for being a POTUS the DC media & establishment didn’t like.

  30. @Smooth Jazz: I am not going to wade into the above, but will simply note the following.

    You are defending a man who did nothing for roughly two hours when any other president, of either party, would have gone on national television to call for the violence to stop. When he did release a video that day he sympathized with the people who had attacked the Capitol and told them “we love you.”

    He definitely said a lot of inflammatory things before Jan 6th. And the evidence mounts that he was trying to stir up his followers and the he was seeking whatever means he could to stay in power.

    You need to deal with these facts rather than simply spouting talking points you are consuming.

    This all beyond some partisan game of “people are being mean to the guy I voted for, so I am going to be mean about the guy that beat him.”

    Again: think back to 2012 and how the people you were listening to misled you about the polls. You are listening to the same kind of reasoning now.

    2
  31. Smooth Jazz says:

    @Steven L. Taylor:

    “You are defending a man who did nothing for roughly two hours when any other president, of either party, would have gone on national television to call for the violence to stop. When he did release a video that day he sympathized with the people who had attacked the Capitol and told them “we love you.”

    Spare me. Liberal blogs such as OTB never gave Trump a chance from day 1 & most certainly wouldn’t never give him the benefit now. You have ZERO idea what Trump was doing during the riot or what he was discussing with his team regarding how to respond. We’ve only heard from people the J6 committee wants us to hear from regarding what he was or was not doing & never heard from the people who have defended what he was doing that day. The fact that this committee has failed to mention he told the crowd to March “peacefully & patriotically” tells me there may be a lot of exculpatory stuff about that day they have not told us about. I suspect the other side will be presented in some form when Repubs take over the House.

    All I know for sure is Trump was upset well before the election because he felt Dems in key states were implementing illegal rules contrary to codified state law under the guise of COVID — such as the use drop boxes in GA & WI where the WI Supreme Court just ruled were used illegally in the 2020 election & millions of mail in ballots allowed to be received after election day, most of which were never impossible to signature verify with legit IDs. That Trump’s combustible personality made him react in ways most of us wouldn’t react, doesn’t make it a crime or obviate the fact the 2020 was operated under dubious circumstances. I’m not into conspiracy theories about voting machines and all the other kraken BS, but I feel this guy makes some great points and understand why Trump would be very upset https://justthenews.com/politics-policy/elections/bombshells-belie-big-lie-21-confirmed-illegalities-irregularities-2020

    As for the 2012 election, I admit I was duped by the “Unskew The Polls” folks. I now realize Romney lost convincedly in part because he didn’t appreciate the Dem early voting juggernaut. At the same time, I did stop by this blog prior to the 2016 election and remember all the “Hillary In A Landslide” posts based on what we now know were bogus polls, including a few posts from you prior to the 2016 election that suggested Trump never had a chance. “What Goes Around Comes Around”.

    At least you didn’t name call, or attack my race, MBA school or where I grew up like the commenters here, so I do appreciate the respectful disagreement.

  32. Smooth Jazz says:

    Yikes. A bunch of typos & diction errors in that last post. I remember OTB has a “15 min” to edit feature. Looks like that feature no longer exists.

  33. @Smooth Jazz:

    Spare me. Liberal blogs such as OTB never gave Trump a chance from day 1 & most certainly wouldn’t never give him the benefit now.

    You start with deflection and then ignore what I provided.

    He told a mob that stormed the capitol that he “loved” them. You have got to deal with that.

    You have ZERO idea what Trump was doing during the riot or what he was discussing with his team regarding how to respond.

    I 100% know what he didn’t do, and you didn’t address that either.

    And we actually have quite a bit of evidence, including inflammatory Tweets from Trump, as to what he was doing.

    Are you in denial about this information?

    As for the 2012 election, I admit I was duped by the “Unskew The Polls” folks. I now realize Romney lost convincedly in part because he didn’t appreciate the Dem early voting juggernaut.

    If you were duped then, perhaps you are being duped now. You are so obviously spouting taking points (e.g., Biden’s basement) that it is clear you are still consuming the same kinds of media sources.

    BTW, the polling in 2016 was pretty close–HRC did win the popular vote, and not far off from the national margins. And the 538 model gave Trump, IIRC, a 33% (maybe 25%) chance to win. Those are not terrible odds. He won, again without majority support. As such, what is your point?

    3
  34. Scott F. says:

    @Steven L. Taylor:

    BTW, the polling in 2016 was pretty close–HRC did win the popular vote, and not far off from the national margins. And the 538 model gave Trump, IIRC, a 33% (maybe 25%) chance to win. Those are not terrible odds. He won, again without majority support. As such, what is your point?

    I think his point is that in 2016 when HRC refused to concede, then summoned her supporters for a march on the Capitol that sadly turned violent, the mindless Liberal sell-outs at OTB didn’t condemn her, so the far left ankle loons here should just accept that they’re the ones who are wrong about everything. No wait… what?

    2
  35. Smooth Jazz says:

    @Scott F.:

    “I think his point is that in 2016 when HRC refused to concede, then summoned her supporters for a march on the Capitol that sadly turned violent”

    It is ironic that you brought Hillary in this thread. Ironic because she paid for the dirty dossier and was the catalyst for the Russian Collusion hoax that sucked in the FBI into chicanery (ie The FBI lawyer who doctor Emails to entrap Trump folks at the FISA court). Not to mention the Alfa Bank scam to push a bogus story that Trump’s server were tied to Russia that her campaign manager Robby Mook just revealed had her imprimatur in court.

    I don’t think Hillary ever really conceded. I don’t think you would want to use her as a paragon of grace in this case. The only reason why her Russian Collusion hoax and dirty dossier malfeasance wasn’t pinned on her as much was because the Dem media buried her role in the Russian hoax just like they bury all major stories that Dems — like the emerging Hunter Biden saga they are trying to pretend doesn’t exist.

  36. Smooth Jazz says:

    @Steven L. Taylor:

    “You start with deflection and then ignore what I provided. He told a mob that stormed the capitol that he “loved” them.”

    And you continually gaslight, parrot red herrings & Dem talking points, incapable of seeing the other side on this. What does telling a “mob” he loved them has to do with anything? Hundreds of thousands were protesting the election results, just like millions protested in Dem cities in 2021. So what. He tells crowds who attends his rallies he loves them all the time.

    Are you suggesting he told the “mob” to storm the Capitol. If so, please provide proof.

    Like all Trump Hating Libs, you are incapable of an open mind on anything Trump. I just provided links regarding how WI just ruled the drop boxes used in the 2020 election were illegal, and most certainly would have changed the 2020 WI outcome. I also provided a link to other documented irregularities in how ballots were compromised in the election.

    People were pissed the administration and execution of the 2020 was compromised. Trump asked people to come to DC to protest — Similar to Dems like Kamala Harris was encouraging people to protest in Dem cities and supporting bail initiatives for protesters. A bunch of hooligans broke off from the main group and trashed the Capitol and many of whom are in jail.

    It’s noting more, nothing less; a protest gone awry. This unseemly effort to pressure DOJ to indict their political opponent for a riot Trump had no involvement in is weird and off-putting to half of the Country.

  37. @Smooth Jazz: Your deflection continues.

    You have not addressed a single issue from above. He said he loved them. That he understood them.

    Address that.

    1
  38. Scott F. says:

    @Steven L. Taylor: SJ has taken it upon himself to define what counts as concession, he knows (and you don’t) which words spoken by Trump on January 6th matter and which are irrelevant, he’s determined for himself which of those who marched to the Capitol were hooligans and which were legitimate Trump supporters, and he will disregard the investigative findings of Robert Mueller (former FBI Director appointed by Bush Jr.), while championing the “reporting” of John Solomon (well documented partisan hack).

    As open-minded and enlightened as he professes to be, this commenter is simply mentally incapable of addressing the issues you’ve raised.

    2