Clinton Wins Big In New York As Sanders Campaign Becomes Even More Quixotic

Hillary Clinton scored another big win in New York last night, putting her closer to clinching the Democratic nomination, and causing Bernie Sanders' campaign to make even less sense.

Clinton Sanders Debate

Former First Lady, Senator, and Secretary of State Hillary Clinton scored another huge win over Bernie Sanders in her home state of New York last night, putting her closer to clinching the Democratic nomination and casting more doubt on the logic behind Vermont Senator Bernie Sanders staying in the race:

Hillary Clinton soundly defeated Sen. Bernie Sanders in her adopted home state of New York on Tuesday, placing the Democratic nomination nearly within her grasp after a fiercely fought primary season that has turned increasingly nasty.

With 98.5 percent of precincts reporting, Clinton led Sanders by 57.9 percent to 42.1 percent, allowing her to claim a lopsided share of the state’s delegates and strengthening her argument that there is no plausible way for him to erase her commanding lead.

“There’s no place like home,” a grinning Clinton told supporters in Manhattan.
“The race for the Democratic nomination is in the home stretch, and victory is in sight,” she said to thunderous applause. And then she addressed Sanders supporters directly: “I believe that there is much more that unites us than divides us,” she said.

Both Clinton and Sanders have called New York a likely watershed in the unexpectedly long campaign, a crucial test of strength for both candidates offering a treasure trove of 247 delegates.

For Clinton, winning the large, diverse state buoys her campaign after a string of losses to her underdog rival. A Sanders victory here would have badly embarrassed her in the state she represented as senator for eight years — and would have lent credence to his now-fading argument that he can still catch up.

Clinton’s decisive victory is certain to increase questions about whether Sanders risks damaging the party’s chances in November if he continues to campaign as aggressively against Clinton.

Sanders has vowed to stay in the race through the July convention, and his ability to raise money online from his legions of loyal supporters should enable him to do that.

Before the New York results were announced, Sanders flew to his home town of Burlington, Vt., without the traveling press corps that usually accompanies him.

“Today we took Secretary Clinton on in her own state of New York and we lost,” Sanders told reporters in Vermont after landing. “There are five primaries next week. We think we’re going to do well.”

Sanders claimed to still have the momentum in the race and said, “We think we have a message that is resonating.

Campaigning earlier at Pennsylvania State University, Sanders complained about New York’s closed primary system, in which only registered Democrats can participate in the Democratic vote. According to exit polling reported by CNN, that requirement played strongly to Clinton’s benefit. Fully 83 percent of Democratic primary voters said they typically consider themselves Democrats, 10 points higher than the average so far this year and trailing only Mississippi. Clinton won self-identified Democrats by a margin of 61 percent to 39 percent. Sanders won nearly three-quarters of self-identified independents, but they accounted for only 14 percent of the electorate, similar to 12 percent in 2008.

Sanders has won independents by 62 percent to 36 percent across previous contests this year in which exit polls were conducted, while Clinton has won self-identified Democrats by 64 percent to 35 percent.

Those victories — coupled with Sanders’s continued success in drawing large, enthusiastic crowds, as well as his extraordinary fundraising success — have sustained his long-shot candidacy and complicated Clinton’s argument that she is the better candidate to face the Republicans this fall.

Clinton is attempting to turn her attention toward a general-election contest against either Donald Trump, who won New York’s Republican primary Tuesday, or Sen. Ted Cruz (Tex.). She is the foil for both Republicans, with each arguing that he is the better candidate to defeat her in November.

Earlier Tuesday, Clinton sought to turn the comparison with Sanders to international affairs and national security, areas in which she says his credentials are thin and hers robust.

“And at a time when terrorists are plotting new attacks and countries like Russia, China and Iran are making aggressive moves, protecting America’s national security cannot be an afterthought,” she said.

“Our next president has to be just as passionate about defending our country as she is about fixing our economy.”

Sanders has won independents by 62 percent to 36 percent across previous contests this year in which exit polls were conducted, while Clinton has won self-identified Democrats by 64 percent to 35 percent.

Those victories — coupled with Sanders’s continued success in drawing large, enthusiastic crowds, as well as his extraordinary fundraising success — have sustained his long-shot candidacy and complicated Clinton’s argument that she is the better candidate to face the Republicans this fall.

Clinton is attempting to turn her attention toward a general-election contest against either Donald Trump, who won New York’s Republican primary Tuesday, or Sen. Ted Cruz (Tex.). She is the foil for both Republicans, with each arguing that he is the better candidate to defeat her in November.

Earlier Tuesday, Clinton sought to turn the comparison with Sanders to international affairs and national security, areas in which she says his credentials are thin and hers robust.

“And at a time when terrorists are plotting new attacks and countries like Russia, China and Iran are making aggressive moves, protecting America’s national security cannot be an afterthought,” she said.

“Our next president has to be just as passionate about defending our country as she is about fixing our economy.”

Preliminary exit-poll data suggested a large nonwhite turnout. Roughly 4 in 10 Democratic primary voters were nonwhite, up slightly from 30 percent in the state’s 2008 primary. Exit polling showed Clinton winning nonwhite voters by a 67 percent to 33 percent margin, just shy of her 70 percent to 29 percent edge across previous contests.

Clinton performs best with defenders of Wall Street. More than 6 in 10 New York Democratic voters said that Wall Street does more to hurt the economy than help, according to preliminary exit polling reported by CNN, and these voters favored Sanders over Clinton by a 12-point margin. Clinton won by more than 50 points among the roughly 3 in 10 voters who said Wall Street does more to help the economy.

More from The New York Times:

In the Democratic race, Mrs. Clinton was set to win roughly 30 more delegates than Mr. Sanders, out of 247 at stake. She already had a lead of more than 200 delegates in the race.

Smiling broadly throughout her victory speech, Mrs. Clinton drew cheers as she thanked her adopted home state and then boomed, “Today, you proved once again, there’s no place like home.”

“The race for the Democratic nomination is in the home stretch and victory is in sight,” Mrs. Clinton added, reflecting the overwhelming mathematical advantage she has in delegates.

Sanders advisers had said that beating Mrs. Clinton in her adopted home state represented one of their campaign’s best opportunities to damage her candidacy and sow doubts about her strength as a general-election nominee. On Tuesday, however, Mrs. Clinton drew deep support among women and blacks — two groups that have been essential for her in many states — while Mr. Sanders was outpacing her among white men and people under 45, according to exit polls.

“Bernie Sanders got very negative attacking Hillary Clinton and dividing the party in New York, and I think he now has to ask himself if he wants to keep going down that path,” said Jay Jacobs, a Clinton supporter who is the Democratic chairman in Nassau County on Long Island. “After New York, we’re moving into a phase of the campaign where we have to start uniting the party.”

Mr. Sanders and his team spent Tuesday looking past New York. Mr. Sanders held a rally at Pennsylvania State University in State College on Tuesday night, then flew home to Burlington, Vt., and spoke to reporters just after the race was called.

“There are five primaries next week and we think we are going to do well and we think we have a path toward victory,” Mr. Sanders said.

He also expressed concern about the closed primary system in New York and said he hoped it would change in the future. “Some three million New Yorkers were unable to vote today because they were registered as independents,” Mr. Sanders said. “That makes no sense to me.”

The Sanders campaign spent roughly $2 million more than the Clinton campaign on television ads in New York. The magnitude of the loss — both in the popular vote and in delegates — was steep for Mr. Sanders, who said he intended to get “recharged and take a day off.”

The senator’s advisers were optimistic that he would perform strongly in next Tuesday’s primaries in Pennsylvania as well as in Rhode Island and Connecticut. The other two states voting next week, Delaware and Maryland, are widely seen as Clinton strongholds. The Sanders campaign is already running television ads in those five states and Indiana, which votes May 3.

“Bernie is in good shape going forward no matter who wins New York,” said Tad Devine, a senior adviser on the Sanders campaign. “We could win enough delegates in Pennsylvania and Indiana to catch up further to her, and we have good opportunities all the way through California,” which votes June 7. Still, Mr. Devine acknowledged, “we’re going to have to have some big wins at the end” of the primary and caucus season.

Mrs. Clinton, a former senator from New York, received support from roughly six in 10 Democrats on Long Island, and she overwhelmed Mr. Sanders in Manhattan, Queens and the Bronx. Mr. Sanders won many upstate rural counties, where few votes were cast, and he also did well in the Hudson Valley, given the enclaves of liberals and college students.

As with Donald Trump, Clinton did better in the final results than most polling was indicating, a fact that indicates that her campaign likely did a good job of getting key voting groups to the polls, especially among minority voters in New York City, which has long been the stronghold for Democrats in the Empire State. While the magnitude of her victory is muted in comparison to some extent due to the Democratic Party’s proportional delegate allocation rules, it is still clear that Clinton had a very good night last night and stands well positioned in her hunt for a delegate majority in advance of the Democratic National Convention in Philadelphia.  Indeed, Clinton’s victory was so far reaching that the logic behind Bernie Sanders campaign, something that Sanders is perhaps considering as he takes today off from campaigning.

If Sanders wants to look at the sobering truth, of course, he really only needs to look at the delegate count and the race ahead. Of the 247 delegates up for grabs last night, Clinton has won at least 139 and Sanders has won 106. Including Superdelegates, this means that there are roughly 1646 delegates left to be allocated among the remaining primaries, 172 of which consist of Superdelegates who have yet to endorse a candidate. As of this morning, Clinton has 1,930 delegates in her column, meaning that she would need another 452 delegates, or roughly 27. 46% of those remaining, to get to a delegate majority. Sanders, on the other hand, has 1,189 delegates and would need to get another 1,189 delegates, or roughly 72 .48% of those remaining, to get to a majority. Taking the Superdelegates out of the mix, Clinton could get to a majority by winning roughly  65% of the remaining pledged delegates, while Sanders would need to win 83.51% of the remaining pledged delegates. Realistically, there is no way Sanders could achieve either of these goals.

Looking ahead to next week, Hillary Clinton appears well-positioned to do well once again. She is currently ahead in the polling in Maryland, Pennsylvania, and Connecticut and, like Trump, appears likely to do well in Delaware and Rhode Island as well. While she’s not likely to get the blowout win in any of these states that she did in New York, she should do well enough to continue racking up delegates, and will likely increase the pressure on Sanders to make some decisions about the future of a campaign that seems to be more quixotic as the days continue.

FILED UNDER: Campaign 2016, Hillary Clinton, Politicians, US Politics,
Doug Mataconis
About Doug Mataconis
Doug holds a B.A. in Political Science from Rutgers University and J.D. from George Mason University School of Law. He joined the staff of OTB in May 2010. Before joining OTB, he wrote at Below The BeltwayThe Liberty Papers, and United Liberty Follow Doug on Twitter | Facebook

Comments

  1. EddieinCA says:

    Watching Sanders’s campaign manager, Jeff Weaver, last night on MS NBC, was surreal. He was talking about how Sanders could sweep the whole remaining Midwest states, how they would do very very well in California, and how they would probably win New Mexico because Senders is doing better with Latino voters every day. It was delusional. Completely delusional.

    And when he was asked, straight up: “if you are behind in popular vote, behind in pledged delegates, behind in superdelegates, will you still go all the way to the convention floor?”

    He answered “Yes.”

    Delusional

  2. Michael says:

    Sanders complained that Independents could not vote for him because New York is a closed primary. Apparently the good Senator has forgotten that he is an Independent and not a Democrat.

  3. al-Ameda says:

    Looking ahead to next week, Hillary Clinton appears well-positioned to do well once again. She is currently ahead in the polling in Maryland, Pennsylvania, and Connecticut and, like Trump, appears likely to do well in Delaware and Rhode Island as well. While she’s not likely to get the blowout win in any of these states that she did in New York, she should do well enough to continue racking up delegates, and will likely increase the pressure on Sanders to make some decisions about the future of a campaign that seems to be more quixotic as the days continue.

    I live in an area – about 65 miles north of San Francisco – where, if America had a viable national Green Party, I’m pretty sure it would get a plurality if not a majority of the votes in a national election.

    Also, round here Sanders has a lot of support, probably 10-20 points more than Hillary Clinton. Bernie Sanders gets a lot of support up here because his supporters believe that Hillary is very much a corporatist establishment politician, while Sander’s is running populist economic justice rhetoric out there.

    I honestly do wonder if the Sanders people will be able to set hard feelings aside and vote for Clinton? They’d better if they want someone other than Ted Cruz or Donald Trump making nominations to the Supreme Court.

  4. HarvardLaw92 says:

    Ended up listening to this driving down the FDR this morning on my way in from Westchester, and I was reminded yet again why I love this gritty, diverse and thoroughly amazing city. Thank you New York!

  5. HarvardLaw92 says:

    @al-Ameda:

    The problem there, as I see it anyway, is that Marin is a pretty small slice of California. The valleys (San Joaquin, Imperial, you name it), Inland Empire, San Diego, etc will all almost certainly break for Clinton. I’m betting that much of metro LA does as well.

  6. EddieinCA says:

    @HarvardLaw92:

    Marin is whiter than white. Not representative of the Dem coalition.

  7. al-Ameda says:

    @HarvardLaw92:

    The problem there, as I see it anyway, is that Marin is a pretty small slice of California. The valleys (San Joaquin, Imperial, you name it), Inland Empire, San Diego, etc will all almost certainly break for Clinton. I’m betting that much of metro LA does as well.

    I reside further north, in Sonoma County, in the coastal corridor, where politics is more green and funky than in Marin County (where I grew up eons ago, also, the town I grew up in voted about 80% for Obama in 2008 and 2012.)

    I generally agree with your take on this – I think that urban coastal cities will go for Hillary Clinton, and Bernie will do okay (primarily as a placeholder or a marker for people who find Hillary too establishment).

  8. Jenos Idanian says:

    And in other news, Bernie Sanders released his taxes for 2015. A few fun facts:

    1) He and his wife reported a total income of $205,271 — which puts him in the top 6% of income in the US.

    2) His effective tax rate was 13.5%, which is actually a lower rate than my 14.4% on a significantly lower income.

    3) As much as he says the rich need to pay more, he chose to minimize his tax liability, and also did not avail himself of the option to pay more than the minimum to help the government out. (This is an option for anyone who believes that the government needs more money, and they are undertaxed — I invite those who believe such to make their donations immediately.)

    That last link is incredibly useful. Anyone who thinks their taxes should be higher can calculate what they think is their fair share, write out the check, and mail it in. Go ahead, folks, demonstrate your patriotism today!

  9. al-Ameda says:

    @Jenos Idanian:

    And in other news, Bernie Sanders released his taxes for 2015. A few fun facts:
    1) He and his wife reported a total income of $205,271 — which puts him in the top 6% of income in the US.

    I suppose he could turn down his Senate salary, wear hurachi sandals and wander the streets of Burlington and Georgetown begging for support?

    2) His effective tax rate was 13.5%, which is actually a lower rate than my 14.4% on a significantly lower income.

    Scandalous, he probably claims a mortgage and property tax deduction too, just like millions of resesentful white working class voters do!

    3) As much as he says the rich need to pay more, he chose to minimize his tax liability, and also did not avail himself of the option to pay more than the minimum to help the government out.

    LOL … $205K – maintaining two households (in DC and Vermont ) really does not position Bernie as rich.

  10. Jenos Idanian says:

    @al-Ameda: I suppose he could turn down his Senate salary, wear hurachi sandals and wander the streets of Burlington and Georgetown begging for support?

    He needn’t go that far, but even a token gesture or two of him living by what he espouses would be a good start. Instead, he’s taking the typical leftist “we all should pay more taxes, but I won’t unless I’m made to — and everyone else is, too.” He’s gotta force everyone to live by his standards, and won’t until they do, too.

    candalous, he probably claims a mortgage and property tax deduction too, just like millions of resesentful white working class voters do!

    As I said, if he thinks the top 6% are undertaxed, he could just pay more.

    LOL … $205K – maintaining two households (in DC and Vermont ) really does not position Bernie as rich.

    Top six percent. Just barely out of the top 5%. He could afford to (by his own standards), so he should.

  11. Tyrell says:

    Hillary will be making a big mistake if she moves to the left to pick up Sanders voters. She should stay in the middle.

  12. C. Clavin says:

    @Jenos Idanian:
    Hilarious that a self-proclaimed free-rider on the health care system would suggest someone else should pay MORE than their fair share.

  13. Tony W says:

    I am a little slow and have been a Sanders supporter a bit longer than many others, but even I know when it’s time to throw in the towel and support Clinton.

  14. Franklin says:

    @Jenos Idanian: Out of curiosity, how much did he donate to charities? Many people, including me, donate to organizations that ideally would get more public funding – schools, etc.

  15. walt moffett says:

    Democracies work best when there are vigorously contested elections.

  16. Facebones says:

    @EddieinCA: Weaver is showing himself to be the Mark Penn on 2016. He’s not doing Bernie any favors.

    And remember how the Sanders camp was complaining about superdelegtes being undemocratic and they should respect the will of the people? Well, that was then. Now Weaver is insisting that they’ll try and flip delegates before the convention to get the nomination. Bernie should kick him to the curb in a hurry.

  17. anjin-san says:

    @Jenos Idanian:

    the typical leftist “we all should pay more taxes

    I’m not sure how many “leftists” I know. That being said, I do know a lot of Democrats, and offhand, I can’t think of any that take this position.

  18. Grewgills says:

    If my quick math is correct half +1 of the pledged delegates (not including super delegates) is 2027. There are about 1474 pledged delegates left to win. Clinton has 1428 pledged delegates so only needs 599, or 40.6% of the remaining pledged delegates to win the pledged delegate race. If she wins that, she wins. Sanders would need to win 876, or 59.4%, to do the same. Absent a clear pledged delegate majority he loses.

  19. Pch101 says:

    @anjin-san:

    I’m not sure how many “leftists” I know.

    To our, er, bright minds such as Jenos, anyone who is to the left of Attila the Hun is a socialist.

  20. Jenos Idanian says:

    @Franklin: Out of curiosity, how much did he donate to charities?

    It looks like he gave about 4% to charities, which is odd, because in 1981 he told the New York Times that he doesn’t believe in charities.

  21. MarkedMan says:

    It’s curious to me that he hasn’t released earlier years taxes – despite assuring reporters he has done so. I doubt there is some hidden affiliation there, or an astounding source of income. Rather, I suspect his wife, who Bernie said is the one who actually does their taxes, never did them. When Bernie pointed in her direction, reporters asked her about them and she gave a vague answer about having done it before and sincere assurances that when she got home she would send them right off. Nothing so far…

    Like I said, I don’t suspect anything ethically questionalble to show up, at the most a failure to file. But I could only imagine what he would be implying about Hillary if she hadn’t coughed up hers.

  22. HarvardLaw92 says:

    @Facebones:

    Weaver is showing himself to be the Mark Penn on 2016. He’s not doing Bernie any favors.

    Weaver is essentially a political neophyte where real world retail politics outside of the quirky environment of Vermont is concerned.. The only campaigns he has ever worked with were Sanders reelection bids, and even then he’s only been in the drivers seat for one of them.

    I don’t like Tad Devine – I find him a tad slimy to be honest about it – but he does at least have some idea of what he’s doing. Weaver is in way over his head. His inexperience and relative incompetency with respect to operating on a larger stage than Vermont are showing themselves.

  23. Tony W says:

    @Jenos Idanian: Oh FFS – quoting World Net Daily again?

    Of course Sanders does not believe charities should be relieving government of its responsibilities to our most vulnerable citizens. You people want to call that “doesn’t believe in charities” – go ahead. Nobody sane believes you.

  24. Davebo says:

    @HarvardLaw92:

    Devine is a pretty big player in the world of political operatives and I’m pretty sure he’d like to keep it that way.

    If the Sanders campaign does something idiotic in these final weeks I doubt Devine would be behind it.

  25. Lynn says:

    @al-Ameda: “I honestly do wonder if the Sanders people will be able to set hard feelings aside and vote for Clinton? They’d better if they want someone other than Ted Cruz or Donald Trump making nominations to the Supreme Court.”

    Some will, some won’t. I’ve heard a number of Bernie supporters say they’ll vote for Jill Stein rather than Hillary. When I ask about the possibility of a President Trump or President Cruz, they sort of shrug and say that America deserves what it gets.

  26. Jenos Idanian says:

    @Tony W: Oh FFS – quoting World Net Daily again?

    Hell, no. Powerline. And they went directly to the New York Times:

    ”I don’t believe in charities,” said Mayor Sanders, bringing a shocked silence to a packed hotel banquet room. The Mayor, who is a Socialist, went on to question the ”fundamental concepts on which charities are based” and contended that government, rather than charity organizations, should take over responsibility for social programs.

  27. Monala says:

    @Jenos Idanian: another reason why the Republicans would attack him mercilessly if he were the nominee. Very few Americans, even among those who think government should do more, don’t also think charities are a good thing.

  28. HarvardLaw92 says:

    @Davebo:

    Oh I agree. Devine from what I can tell is trying to steer the ship the right way but being ignored. I wouldn’t be surprised if he departs soon. This current train wreck IMO has Weaver written all over it.

  29. Kari Q says:

    @Lynn:

    That’s fairly common this time of year. Most of the time, these people change their minds and support the candidate who wins the nomination in the general election. Maybe it will be different this time, but my guess is that at least half of the #bernieorbust types will vote for Hillary in November.

  30. Todd says:

    It might be harder for Sanders to come around and endorse Clinton than has been the case in past races. His principal issue being money in politics, I could imagine that the main “ask” he would make of Clinton for his endorsement is to not take any more Wall Street money in the general election campaign. That may be a deal she’s not willing to make.

    Ultimately, one benefit for Sanders being towards the end of his career, if he doesn’t get what he asks for, he can happily go back to doing what he was doing in the Senate. It’s not like he has “future ambitions”. This was his one time shot.

    As I said in the other thread, the impetus is going to be on the Clinton campaign to “heal the rift” and bring the party together. Although, depending on what’s actually in those Wall Street speech transcripts, there’s also a very real possibility that Sanders may choose not to endorse Clinton at all. For Sanders and many of his supporters, the influence of money in politics was not just a convenient “attack” issue, it’s an issue that is undermining the foundation of our whole system of government.

    I predict that for Clinton to get Sanders’ endorsement, she’s going to have to get on board with campaign finance reform in a way much more serious than just lip service.

  31. Just 'nutha ig'rant cracker says:

    @Jenos Idanian: Yeah, Sean Hannity was saying the same thing this morning in an advertising blurb for his show later on the radio station I was listening to this morning. I didn’t care when he mentioned it either.

    In other news of the day, it was announced that it costs $17,000 more than the average Portlander (Oregon) makes to live comfortably there. The fact that Sanders is in the top 6% of incomes and yet is not actually wealthy by any reasonable measure of how Americans live is one of the “what’s wrong with this picture” elements of our life here that rwnjs keep being in denial about.

    I see that you are back to being here more often. Did you lose your second job already? A mean person might note that such a situation would indicate that the job market is becoming able to be more selective, but I will take a higher road and not go there.

  32. Just 'nutha ig'rant cracker says:

    @Jenos Idanian: I take it that you haven’t changed your mind about anything during the last 36 years? Good to know!

  33. Todd says:

    This also rings true. Clinton is not going to be able to just “tack to the center” and expect to keep the support of many Sanders voters.

    In the Post interview, Jane Sanders made it clear that her husband’s supporters won’t simply fall in line with the Clinton campaign.

    “If they have any hope of getting any of Bernie’s supporters, it cannot be ‘Okay, we got through the primary, now I move to the center,’ ” she said. “That is the history of the Democratic and Republican party. The Republicans go right-wing, then they go more to the center. The Democrats go more liberal, and then they go to the center. So we will keep people, whether Bernie’s the nominee or Hillary’s the nominee, we will keep people focused on issues that are important.”

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/after-new-york-comes-the-question-what-does-bernie-want/2016/04/20/f50b161c-06a2-11e6-b283-e79d81c63c1b_story.html?tid=sm_fb

  34. Joecu says:

    @Michael: But he is running as a democrat and democrats can vote for him, and in some states, independents can vote for him too.

  35. Joecu says:

    Hillary is a warmonger and is a republican in democrats clothing just like Diane Feinstein.

  36. EddieInCA says:

    @Joecu:

    Hillary Clinton, who has been fighting for cheaper healthcare since 1992?

    Hillary Clinton, who supported Eugene McCarthy, because of his Anti-War stance, while she was still a Junior in College?

    Hillary Clinton, who has been a children’s rights advocate since 1971?

    Hillary Clinton, who led a student March to get more African American students and faculty at Wellesley?

    Sounds totally Republican to me.

    Grow the eff up! If you cant’ see the difference between a solid center-left candidate with what is currently the center of the GOP, you’re delusional.

    Oh, you probably were a Nader voter (but my guess is you’re too young, because most Nader voters will never make that mistake again.), Yeah. there was absolutely no difference between Al Gore and GW Bush. No difference at all.

    When Nader dies – and I hope he lives a long life – I’m going to visit his grave site, and piss on it. I’ll feel bad about it, but not much.

  37. Kari Q says:

    @Joecu:

    Anyone who sees no difference between Hillary Clinton and today’s Republicans needs their eyes examined.

  38. Dave D says:

    @EddieInCA: I know I regret my vote for Nader but I was 18 and believed there was no difference by 04 I voted Kerry because the difference between Bush and Gore were clearly borne out. Perfect cannot be the enemy of good for me, but that’s just me since the alternative to good is terrifying.