Shutdown Likely To Drag On For Extended Period

There's no sign that the government shutdown will end any time soon.

government-shutdown-closed-for-business

In this morning’s Washington Post, Chris Cillizza and Sean Sullivan explain why the shutdown isn’t likely to wrap up anytime soon:

Entrenchment in established positions is the name of the game at the moment. And, you don’t dig in deeper when you are looking for ways to move on.

The reality is that both sides are leaning heavily on principle when it comes to defending their current stance on the shutdown. For Boehner, this is about standing up for the people who don’t like Obamacare and want it gone. For Obama/Reid, it’s about not re-litigating a law that the Supreme Court upheld and, they believe, the 2012 election affirmed.

And, you don’t cave on principle in 24 or 48 hours. The only way you do move off of a principled stand in politics is for a damn good reason — as in a deal that you can sell to your side as going far enough to make it worth compromising.

The two sides are nowhere close to that at the moment. And it’s hard to see them getting to such a “principled” compromise any time all that soon.

 National Review’s Jonathan Strong quotes Republican House members who expect the shutdown to go on for weeks, and ultimately become part of the debt ceiling issue:
Senior House Republicans are increasingly persuaded the government shutdown could last weeks and will only be resolved in a major bipartisan accord involving a funding bill and debt-ceiling increase.

On the first day of the shutdown, President Obama and Senate majority leader Harry Reid only hardened their unwillingness to negotiate with the GOP. For example, Obama threatening to veto rifle-shot funding bills, to keep specific branches of government funded, backed by dozens of Democrats on the House floor.

In the meantime, despite a small bloc of moderates indicating they would happily vote for a “clean” continuing resolution to fund the government without any preconditions, the House GOP conference is remaining steadfast.

At a closed-door conference meeting earlier today, Speaker John Boehner gave a pep-rally-style speech signaling he isn’t about to fold his hand.

“We’re in this fight. This is the moment. We all talk about doing something for our kids and our grandkids. If you want to do something for them, now is the time. We have to work together and win this fight,” Boehner told members, according to a Republican in the room.

“I can’t imagine we’re going to resolve” the shutdown before the upcoming fight on raising the debt ceiling, Representative John Campbell of California says.

“Think about it — if they decided they were ready to talk by next week, you’re not going to negotiate the thing overnight. It’s going to take a little time,” he adds.

“The real problem is, we may have gotten ourselves into a position where we can’t budge on a clean CR and they can’t budge on Obamacare. Then what do you do?” says Representative Mike Simpson of Idaho, a top Boehner ally. When I ask how long he expected the shutdown to last, Simpson says “I don’t know. I honestly don’t know. I don’t know.”

At this point, Republicans probably think that they’ve got nothing left to lose by dragging things out until mid-October when the nation will have to face the hard reality of either raising the debt ceiling or leaving it to the President and the Treasury Secretary to figure out which of the nation’s obligations should be paid, and which of them should go unpaid. President Obama has said repeatedly that he was not going to negotiate over the debt ceiling, but the closer that we get to that deadline, currently believed to be October 17th, the harder it’s going to be to hold that line, or at least that’s what Republicans seem to be counting on.

The risk for the GOP, of course, is that they could end up being wrong in calling what they believe to be Obama’s bluff and that he really isn’t going to blink on negotiations. This would seem to be especially likely if post-shutdown polling starts going negatively for the GOP, which seems to be the direction that its heading. In that kind of situation, we’ll be looking at a standoff up and down Pennsylvania Avenue, with Congress on one end and the President on the other. Meanwhile, the various sides in Congress don’t seem to be talking among themselves, which makes one wonder just how anyone is going to be able to come to an agreement if they’re not talking to each other.

As things stand right now, it seems rather unlikely that we’ll see any kind of real resolution to this crisis this week. The GOP appears to be engaging now in a strategy of passig piecemeal funding bills for discrete parts of the national government such as national parks, the Dept. of Veterans Affairs, and funding for the District of Columbia. Obviously, many of these are directed toward the funding of some of the most visible aspects of the shutdown such as the national parks, monuments, and museums in an effort to both put pressure on Democrats in the House and Senate and to reduce some of the negative perception that things such as a closed and barricaded Lincoln Memorial creates when broadcast constantly on national television. The Senate seems dedicated to rejecting this approach and continuing to insist that the House pass the clean Continuing Resolution that was passed over the weekend. As long as they think they have the public on their side, they’re likely to continue to take that position. So, basically, we’re just looking at both sides making moves that they think will enhance their political positions while not actually accomplishing anything that will resolve either of the two crises that the government is facing this month.

And pundits wonder why the American people have such disdain for politics in general and Congress in particular. We’re seeing Exhibit A playing itself out right now.

FILED UNDER: Congress, Deficit and Debt, Health Care, US Politics,
Doug Mataconis
About Doug Mataconis
Doug holds a B.A. in Political Science from Rutgers University and J.D. from George Mason University School of Law. He joined the staff of OTB in May 2010 and contributed a staggering 16,483 posts before his retirement in January 2020.

Comments

  1. gVOR08 says:

    Is there anybody in the country dumb enough to buy the GOPs strategy of offering a discrete, small CR for whatever people are bitching about this week? Sorry. Withdrawn. Lost my head there for a minute. Right around 27% probably.

  2. john personna says:

    And pundits wonder why the American people have such disdain for politics in general and Congress in particular. We’re seeing Exhibit A playing itself out right now.

    No, just no.

    One party, really one sub-group of one party, is denying American democracy, and taking us to ruin in the process.

  3. JKB says:

    So why has their been no effort to actually pass legitimate appropriations bills? Is that what the piecemeal tactic is suppose to be?

    I’m genuinely curious as both Obama and the Senate actually offered suggestions on the appropriations this year and the House budget wasn’t that far off. So why no appropriations bills? Are they even in committee? Has it been so long that no one seems to know how it is suppose to work anymore?

  4. john personna says:

    @JKB:

    The minority position should not be accepted, even dressed up thus.

    That is not how democracy works.

  5. john personna says:

    (And I must say Doug, every time you and OTB deny the democratic mandate, you undermine democracy itself. That is not hyperbole.)

  6. mantis says:

    For Obama/Reid, it’s about not re-litigating a law that the Supreme Court upheld and, they believe, the 2012 election affirmed.

    Bullshit. Cillizza and Sullivan continue to misstate the situation. If Republicans want to change or refund a law, they can do so through normal order. If they can’t succeed in the legislature, they need to appeal to voters and win elections so they can. What Obama and Reid oppose is Republican hostage-taking and extortion to achieve goals they could not accomplish through the democratic representative structure of our government. They oppose negotiating with terrorists. They are correct.

    Oh, and by the way, it doesn’t matter if the 2012 election “affirmed” anything. What matters is who has the votes in Congress and the veto pen. That’s how our government works. It’s been that way oh…forever.

  7. Scott says:

    I read someone that if a clean CR went up for a vote in the House, it would pass. That says several things: Boehner and company are totally afraid of a minority of their members; the House Reps are in an extremely weak position; and three, there is no need for the Dems to do anything but wait.

    Unless the Repub do something to change that reality, they’ve lost.

  8. OzarkHillbilly says:

    And it’s hard to see them getting to such a “principled” compromise any time all that soon.

    I would like for Chris Cillizza and Sean Sullivan to explain how one comes to a “principled” compromise with a party that has no principles.

  9. ratufa says:

    @JKB:

    I’m genuinely curious as both Obama and the Senate actually offered suggestions on the appropriations this year and the House budget wasn’t that far off. So why no appropriations bills? Are they even in committee? Has it been so long that no one seems to know how it is suppose to work anymore?

    There has been no budget deal via the “normal” process because many Republicans believe that a fiscal crisis, such as a government shutdown combined with threats to refuse to raise the debt ceiling, will give them more leverage to get the deal they want.

    http://articles.washingtonpost.com/2013-05-07/business/39084441_1_debt-limit-committee-chairman-patty-murray-debt-summit

  10. OzarkHillbilly says:

    @JKB:

    So why has their been no effort to actually pass legitimate appropriations bills?

    I suspect because that would require compromise with Senate Dems. Something Paul Ryan said they would not even try to do until the debt limit was reached so they could try to leverage a hostage situation.

  11. mantis says:

    @JKB:

    So why has their been no effort to actually pass legitimate appropriations bills?

    The Democrats have requested conference negotiations on the budget for 7 months and Republicans refused to meet. Now that they hold a gun to our heads and are threatening to destroy the economy again, the Republicans want to negotiate. Well, not negotiate, really. They want us to submit to their demands or the hostage gets it.

  12. Rob in CT says:

    @ratufa:

    Exactly right. Lying Ryan and the rest of them (this business about “oh there are a minority of crazies driving all of this!” is far, far too kind to the rest of the party) see the debt ceiling as a leverage point and have always intended to use it. They used it in 2011 and had some success (HUGE mistake by O there), and are going to try it again.

    And that’s the point: they cannot be allowed to succeed, or this will happen again and again and again.

    At this point, I have two main fears: 1) default and its consequences; and 2) capitulation, in whole or in part, by the Democrats. Short-term, #1 scares me more. But I’m not sure when I think long-term. They may be equally bad outcomes.

  13. OzarkHillbilly says:

    Oh and I heard this morning that one of the early victims of the gov’t shutdown has been the E-Verify system. So now business can not hire people because of the requirement that all new employees be E-Verified within 3 days of their hiring.

    See how pro business the Republicans are?

  14. Rob in CT says:

    I’m genuinely curious

    If you were, you could find the answer pretty easily. But you’re not.

  15. JKB says:

    @john personna: That is not how democracy works.

    But it is how a democratic Republic with Constitutional separation of powers works.

    In the end, in a bit over a year, everyone, who chooses to vote, will get to assert their opinion on the matter. Assuming anyone cares in a year

  16. john personna says:

    @JKB:

    No, that is not right either. No Republic gives its minority the right to Enact changes.

    The requested repeal is an action, just like gun control would be, if Democrats held up government over gun control.

    Do you seriously think this stuff through?

  17. JKB says:

    @Rob in CT: If you were, you could find the answer pretty easily. But you’re not.

    I said I was curious not industrious.

  18. @gVOR08:

    Is there anybody in the country dumb enough to buy the GOPs strategy of offering a discrete, small CR for whatever people are bitching about this week? Sorry.

    I imagine the furrloughed government workers who’d be able to get paid again by those discrete pieces would. But I guess wanting to be paid again makes you dumb. And yes, I realize the Republicans are responsible for causing the faceoff, but when the bills come due, all of the Democrats good intensions don’t pay them.

  19. Rick Almeida says:

    @JKB:

    Do you think that if you keep adding to the word salad the ideas in it become more palatable?

  20. JKB says:

    @john personna:

    Nothing has been enacted. That’s the whole point of the shutdown. It’ll take a while before most outside DC or on the government payroll will even take notice. I don’t think throwing up more Barry-cades at open spaces will really have an impact.

  21. john personna says:

    @Stormy Dragon:

    Hey, I guess if you enact enough discrete spending bills you get everything but Obamacare … I can see how the Republicans would like that yes.

    In fact, it is mathematically equal to their demand.

  22. OzarkHillbilly says:

    @JKB:

    Is that what the piecemeal tactic is suppose to be?

    No.

    “We’re going to start picking off those priorities that are important,” said Rep. Marlin Stutzman (R-Ind.), as lawmakers prepared to vote to reopen the national parks and services for veterans. “The IRS was last on the list. The EPA was right above it.”

  23. OzarkHillbilly says:

    @JKB: THAT was worth a good chuckle!

  24. @john personna:

    I get the strategy, but it’s still a strategy predicated on the suffering of furrloughed workers, so it might be nice to be a little less flip about it.

  25. mantis says:

    @JKB:

    I said I was curious not industrious

    In other words, you are ignorant by choice.

    Well, now that you’ve been informed that the Democrats have tried to negotiate with Republicans on the budget for months, but the Republicans refused, what say you?

  26. rudderpedals says:

    @OzarkHillbilly: I thought the GOP hated e-verify? Or at least the mandatory bits of it.

  27. OzarkHillbilly says:

    @Stormy Dragon:

    And yes, I realize the Republicans are responsible for causing the faceoff, but when the bills come due, all of the Democrats good intensions don’t pay them.

    And just exactly what does this mean? I repeat:

    “We’re going to start picking off those priorities that are important,” said Rep. Marlin Stutzman (R-Ind.), as lawmakers prepared to vote to reopen the national parks and services for veterans. “The IRS was last on the list. The EPA was right above it.”

    These people will settle for nothing less than the destruction of the United States. They want to destroy democratic rule and replace it with a tyranny of the Tea Party minority.

  28. OzarkHillbilly says:

    @rudderpedals:

    I thought the GOP hated e-verify?

    Hmmmm… I don’t know. I thought they hated illegal immigrants which is the whole point of E-Verify. Maybe they’re just schizophrenic?

  29. mantis says:

    @Stormy Dragon:

    I get the strategy, but it’s still a strategy predicated on the suffering of furrloughed workers, so it might be nice to be a little less flip about it.

    I think he was addressing the Republicans’ efforts with all the solemnity and respect they deserve. You are the one dishonestly trying to claim he was being flip about the workers, not the Republicans’ bullshit, and in doing so you imply that the GOP wants to reopen parks (but not NASA, or the CDC, or many other entities with many employees) out of concern for the furloughed workers. Anyone with a brain knows that is nonsense. Save your righteous indignation for someone who deserves it.

  30. @OzarkHillbilly:

    Again, I get all that. But if you’re a furrloughed worker who’s mortgage payment is coming due, the fact your house will be foreclosed on for a good cause is small comfort. And even if the Democrats are smart to reject the piecemeal bills, the could recognize the cost. gVOR08’s “ha, ha, ha, you people hoping your part of the government will come back are such morons” attitude isn’t all that far off from the Tea Party. I’m glad he’s in a secure position that leaves him free to laugh at all the people who’s lives are being turned upside down by this, but for a lot of people, it’s not at all funny.

  31. Tillman says:

    “We’re in this fight. This is the moment. We all talk about doing something for our kids and our grandkids. If you want to do something for them, now is the time. We have to work together and win this fight,” Boehner told members, according to a Republican in the room.

    This might be the most depressing section of the entire article.

    I think most people have this idea in their heads that politicians only sell the public on bullsh!t, but behind closed doors they talk, all Machiavellian-like, about what levers of power to agree on using and where. It gives this facade of respectability and fear to the government, something Democrats (respectability) and Republicans (fear) both capitalize on.

    This slice, though, shows that they spend about as much time bullsh!tting each other as they do us.

  32. LC says:

    Meanwhile, the various sides in Congress don’t seem to be talking among themselves, which makes one wonder just how anyone is going to be able to come to an agreement if they’re not talking to each other.

    We are so far into this, I don’t know you to can pretend to not know what’s going on here.

    House Republicans ENTIRE STRATEGY is to not talk to anyone else. That is why they have ignored months and months and months of Democrats pleading for a budget conference committee. They think that if they just wait until the last possible moment, President Obama and Senate Democrats will cave. They have no incentive to talk. They don’t want to see this “resolved.”

    I seriously have a hard time believing anyone can be so obtuse as to not understand this by now. At least guys like Paul Ryan acknowledge and admit it, so I’m not sure why “No really I’m not a Republican I swear” Doug Mataconis can’t.

  33. Jr says:

    @john personna: Yeah, I am really starting to get sick of this “both sides do it” bullshit. The problem is the GOP and the GOP only, they have had plenty of opportunities to defeat Obamacare(the election and Supreme Court) and they have lost.

  34. john personna says:

    @Stormy Dragon:

    Well, the Republican strategy is certainly to flip it. They want to shutdown the government, and then declare the Democrats are heartless, because they won’t accede to demands.

    And it’s not like they have offered an encompassing, compassionate, stopgap, which accomplishes all that’s warm and fuzzy while “shutting down” just … well what’s left at that point?

  35. Rob in CT says:

    Jim Fallows:

    2) Thought experiment. Let’s suppose it’s the fall of 2005. Suppose George W. Bush has been reelected, as he was in real life. Let’s suppose, also as in reality, the Senate remained in Republican hands. But then suppose that Nancy Pelosi and her Democrats had already won control of the House, rather than doing so two years later. So suppose that the lineup as of 2005 had been:
    •Reelected Republican president;
    •The president’s Republican party retaining control of the Senate; and
    •Democrats controlling only one chamber, the House.

    Then suppose further that Pelosi’s newly empowered House Democrats announced that unless George W. Bush agreed to reverse the sweeping tax cuts that had been the signature legislative achievement of his first term, they would refuse to pass a budget so that the federal government could operate, and would threaten a default on U.S. sovereign debt. Alternatively, that unless Bush immediately withdrew from Iraq, federal government funding would cease and the debt ceiling would be frozen.

    In this imagined world, I contend:
    •”respectable” opinion would be all over Pelosi and the Democrats for their “shrill,” “extreme” demands, especially given their lack of broad electoral mandate;
    •hand-wringing editorials would point out that if you want to change policy, there’s an established route to do so, which involves passing new bills and getting them signed into law, rather than issuing “otherwise we blow up the government” ultimatums;
    •no one would be saying that the “grownups in the room” had to resolve the crisis by giving away, say, half of the president’s tax cuts. (Even though, to my taste, that would have been a positive step.)

    The circumstances are the mirror image now. A party that within the past year has:
    •lost the presidency by 5 million votes;
    •lost the Senate by a total of 10 million votes;
    •held onto control of the House through favorable districting, while losing the overall House vote by 1.7 million nationwide

    … is nonetheless dictating terms to the rest of the government. This would have been called extreme and unreasonable under an imagined Nancy Pelosi House in 2005. It is extreme and unreasonable now.

    Can you imagine the howls of rage? I would have been mad about it, despite my opposition to both the tax cuts and the war.

    The sad thing is that Republicans look at this and think “yeah, well, that’s just because Democrats don’t have enough guts!”

    These people are crazy, and they are a danger to themselves and others.

  36. john personna says:

    @JKB:

    Repeal is enacting a change to government, and laws of the land.

    A minority want to enact that change, without democratic support:

    Nearly 6 in 10 Americans disapprove of trying to stop the law by cutting its financing. Even among those who don’t like the law, less than half want their representatives in Congress to try to make it fail.

    A 60:40 majority is a solid one, especially for preserving the status quo.

    In a democracy that majority would prevail.

  37. al-Ameda says:

    October 17th is the date Republicans leverage this into default.
    Just 15 days away from further Republican idiocy and insanity.

  38. @john personna:

    Hey, I guess if you enact enough discrete spending bills you get everything but Obamacare

    No, Obamacare is mandatory spending, so you can’t defund it by omission. The only way to cut Obamacare is to pass a specific bill explicitly cutting it. If they passed the entire budget via piecemeal bills, the end result would be exactly the same as passing a clean CR.

  39. al-Ameda says:

    @JKB:

    I don’t think throwing up more

    You mean you’re through?
    But, Republicans like throwing up

  40. OzarkHillbilly says:

    @Stormy Dragon:

    And even if the Democrats are smart to reject the piecemeal bills, the could recognize the cost.

    Oh well, in that case, “I am so sorry all these Federal workers are losing paychecks and possibly houses etc etc. That is why we have asked repeatedly for the House Republicans to pass a clean Continuing Resolution that will keep our government operating for 6 weeks so we can hopefully hash out our differences.”

    Sorry to be flippant, but that is about what your complaint comes down to, and I have heard a # of Dems say basically this.

  41. grumpy realist says:

    The problem is that we’re going to have to break this tactic, otherwise it will be used, over and over again.

    What the Teahadists are doing is leveraging the votes of a small percentage of the House to put the balls of the Speaker of the House in a vice, because said Speaker doesn’t have the intelligence to realize he can just walk away from their threats.

    Reminds me of the whole Manchuko Incident, where the generals of the Japanese Army ended up declaring war on China, because they didn’t have the guts to keep control over their hotheads.

  42. Tillman says:

    @grumpy realist:

    What the Teahadists are doing is leveraging the votes of a small percentage of the House to put the balls of the Speaker of the House in a vice, because said Speaker doesn’t have the intelligence to realize he can just walk away from their threats.

    I’m not sure he can walk away from their threats. He could expect costly primary challenges from the national organizations behind the crazed few. At minimum, his speakership would be threatened unless he appealed to the Democrats for votes, a desperate move if there’s any.

  43. gVOR08 says:

    @Scott: Yes. Boehner has 232 Rs in the House. I see counts of kamikaze Tea Party types ranging from 20 to 50. He and three quarters of his caucus can’t deal with this? Can the Republican Party enforce no discipline at all? Do the Koch bros and Norquist and the Club for Growth (sic) have that much of a hold on these people?

  44. OzarkHillbilly says:

    @grumpy realist:

    What the Teahadists are doing is leveraging the votes of a small percentage of the House to put the balls of the Speaker of the House in a vice, because said Speaker doesn’t have the intelligence to realize he can just walk away from their threats.

    Boehner’s problems are a little deeper than that. There are 30-40 hard core Tea Partiers. There are another 30-40 who are scared to death of the Tea Partiers. Another 100 or so GOPer’s who just don’t want to fight that battle so go along to get along. That leaves Boehner with about 30-40 members of his caucus who’s support he can count on.

    If it were me, I’d tell them all to take a flying f, find somebody else to this job (would not surprise me in the least if they couldn’t). But Boehner likes being Speaker, the so-called 2nd most powerful man in US gov’t, 3rd in succession to the Oval Office.

  45. john personna says:

    Let me take you back to when I was on the other side of majority opinion:

    March 17, 2003: “A new CNN/USA Today/Gallup poll shows support for an invasion of Iraq slightly higher than in recent weeks, at 64%, although support is slightly lower when Americans are asked about an invasion that would take place within the next two weeks.”

    At that point I lamented the democratic outcome, but I did not insist that the democracy should be abandoned, or that my minority should prevail. I accepted the outcome because the first principle in any democracy is democracy.

    Of course I also argued that the Bush administration had actively subverted that democracy, lying us into war … something the majority came to accept in time.

    Similarly, if Obamacare is a bad path, the majority will accept in time and make changes. That is the way it is supposed to work.

  46. george says:

    @john personna:

    At that point I lamented the democratic outcome, but I did not insist that the democracy should be abandoned, or that my minority should prevail. I accepted the outcome because the first principle in any democracy is democracy.

    Of course I also argued that the Bush administration had actively subverted that democracy, lying us into war … something the majority came to accept in time.

    Similarly, if Obamacare is a bad path, the majority will accept in time and make changes. That is the way it is supposed to work.

    That’s basically it. I’d add just one thing – Obamacare was an election issue, and Obama won on it. As the saying goes, “elections have consequences”.

  47. JKB says:

    This is great. The NPS is closing off venues that don’t even receive federal support. They don’t get federal appropriations, nor have federal employees on-site. But the NPS is renting Barry-cades. (someone check that Anti-Deficiency Act on that) Apparently, the theory is that if the federal government isn’t funded, then Obama and his minions are just going to block off public lands from the public.

    Back-fire, I expect so.

  48. OzarkHillbilly says:

    Heh. Scott Galupo:

    Here’s the bad-to-worse takeaway: the K-Street Republicans may be about the cynical business of lining the pockets of their bespoke suits. But the true believers are no more capable of leading the party out of the political wilderness in which it found itself last November.

    If the choice is between between Wall Street and the self-assured ideological commandos of aging all-white R+20 congressional districts—between Goldman and Bachmann, if you will—well, then I’m just taking my ball and going home.

  49. Rob in CT says:

    I argued vehemently against the Bush tax cuts for a decade. I’ll still argue the point if anybody wants to get into it. I was utterly furious about Iraq, The Sequel. And I was very, very disappointed the morning after the 2004 election.

    Why was I disappointed? Because politicians who were closer to my desired policy preferences than the other guys lost and therefore my preferred policies would not be enacted.

    When the Democrats re-took the House in 2006, I certainly didn’t expect much progress on my desired policies. I expected some moderation of the bad policy choices of the GOP. Which we basically got.

    When the Democrats won the Presidency, House and Senate in 2008, THEN I expected major results (and was somewhat disappointed to discover that one needed 60 senators to do anything). When the GOP won back the House in 2010, I was dismayed and expected there would be policy outcomes I didn’t like much, such as extending nearly all the Bush tax cuts, getting rid of the payroll tax cut in a still-weak economy, no chance at more stimulus, etc. I did not expect this debt ceiling hostage bullshit.

  50. Raider says:

    I love how the WW2 vets have been going through the barricades in front of the WW2 memorial in DC. They don’t give a damn about the government shutdown closing their memorial.

    The undocumented illegal alien Obama better walk wisely concerning these veterans.

  51. grumpy realist says:

    @OzarkHillbilly: So what you’re saying is that the bulk of the Republicans elected in the House are wimps and are terrified of the extremists?

    Boehner could crack this rebellion in half if he brought a clean bill to the floor and had it passed over the screeching of the Teahadists.

    I don’t know–he may be saving this tactic for when the same shenanigans gets pulled over the debt limit, at which point Boehner also gets to paint the Teahadists as incompetent fanatics willing to destroy the economy of the US and send it plunging into a depression if they don’t get what they want.

  52. grumpy realist says:

    @OzarkHillbilly: P.S. Boehner doesn’t come across as a very powerful man if his only strategy is acquiesce to the Teahadist threats. He would do much better by telling the far right to piss off and running on a platform of standing up to fanatics.

  53. David M says:

    It’s a safe bet that there aren’t only 30 or so extremists in the House doing this. There’s at least another 50 willingly going along, and then the rest of the GOP falls into the wimp category.

  54. OzarkHillbilly says:

    @grumpy realist:

    So what you’re saying is that the bulk of the Republicans elected in the House are wimps and are terrified of the extremists?

    In a word?

    Yes.

    Boehner could crack this rebellion in half if he brought a clean bill to the floor and had it passed over the screeching of the Teahadists.

    Boehner would lose his Speakership in a New York second if he did that. The fact of the matter is that right now the GOP is hostage to the Tea Party. Look at the #s: There is somewhere between 31% and 40% (depending on the poll) support for the repeal of the ACA. The Tea party approval rate is 22%. Take 22% from 31% and what do you get? Hell take it from 40% and what do you get?

    Forget the math, what you get is the death of the Republican Party. The GOP has a tiger by the tail and they don’t dare let go.

  55. john personna says:

    @OzarkHillbilly:

    So does Boehner put his speakership before default of the US government.

    That is the question.

  56. David M says:

    @john personna:

    He’s already shown that it’s more important than shutting down the government. The question is how long that will last for, and how important the debt ceiling is.

  57. OzarkHillbilly says:

    @grumpy realist:

    Boehner doesn’t come across as a very powerful man if his only strategy is acquiesce to the Teahadist threats.

    He’s not.

    He would do much better by telling the far right to piss off and running on a platform of standing up to fanatics.

    Well, he might then get your vote, and might even get my vote, but neither of those would count for much in a House fight over the Speakership.

  58. OzarkHillbilly says:

    @john personna:

    So does Boehner put his speakership before default of the US government.

    That is the question.

    I think you already have the answer, tho he still has 2 weeks to change his mind.

  59. David M says:

    Boehner has the Tea Party support for a while, based on the nonsensical ramblings of our trolls on here.

  60. Rob in CT says:

    He has lukewarm, distrusting support from the teahadies right up until he does something reasonable, at which point he’s a RINO to be destroyed. And he knows it.

    Not that I shed any tears for Boehner. He can shed plenty for himself.

  61. al-Ameda says:

    @Raider:

    The undocumented illegal alien Obama better walk wisely concerning these veterans.

    I’ve got to ask: Did your mom help you with that?

  62. OzarkHillbilly says:

    @Raider:

    The undocumented illegal alien Obama better walk wisely concerning these veterans.

    Funny. If my old man was still alive, a combat vet of both WWII and Korea, he’d likely box your ears. So here’s a suggestion: Better you walk wisely concerning these veterans.

  63. KM says:

    @OzarkHillbilly:Funny. If my old man was still alive, a combat vet of both WWII and Korea, he’d likely box your ears. So here’s a suggestion: Better you walk wisely concerning these veterans.

    So true. My grandfather (god rest him) just passed recently and was furious whenever he heard someone disrepect President Obama like that. He stormed the beaches of Normandy (and had the medals to prove it) and would take no shit in regards to such blatant disrespect of the CO of the US Army, regardless of politics.

    @Raider: Do not disrespect your elders that way. You do not speak for them. If they hold such views, they’d have no problems speaking them for themselves. Otherwise, how dare you impune the honor of these vets with your nonsense!

  64. Scott says:

    Once the House Democrat vote counter concludes that there will be enough Republicans to vote for a clean bill, then you are going to hear Democrats publically demand from Boehner that a vote be allowed. Rock, meet hard place.

  65. David M says:

    @Scott:

    That bill would have passed last week and will pass now. The challenge is getting the GOP Reps to say publicly they will vote for a clean CR.

  66. Raider says:

    I know it’s extremely hard for some of you to believe that we have an undocumented, illegal alien usurper who has stolen the office of POTUS, but it’s the truth. Your unbelief, your denial, and your deep refusal to acknowledge this truth, will not dictate to me, nor affect what I will say.

    I hope you wake up soon, if you choose to, because America has been conquered from within, right in front of your wide open eyes.

  67. slimslowslider says:

    @Raider:

    Awesome right wing parody!

  68. David M says:

    @slimslowslider:

    Sadly, I don’t think that’s parody. Just pure derp.

  69. wr says:

    @Raider: Congratulations. You just made Tyrrell look sane — and he believes in aliens at Area 51.

  70. Pharoah Narim says:

    @Raider: Or what? They’ll run over his feet with their scooters? Smash his shins with oxygen tanks?

    “It rubs the lotion on the skin…or else it gets the hose again…” SHOO TROLL!

  71. Rob in CT says:

    Poe’s Law.

  72. grumpy realist says:

    @Raider: Prove it. And while you’re at it, prove that you’re a human being and not some wingnut-bot dreamed up by a Comp Sci student for giggles.

  73. Raider says:

    Prove it? Grumpy answer me this:

    Do you think the evidence proving that the white house released long form Obama birth certificate on 4/27/11, was a forgery, isn’t real? Arizona law enforcement and many other people, have proven that the document is fraudulent. Don’t give me the standard birther accusation so you can avoid dealing with the evidence.

    Why else do you think Obama spent over 2 million dollars in lawyer fees to keep his birth records sealed? To this day he will not allow anyone to see the paper long form birth certificate that is suppose to be in Hawaii. He won’t do this because his real birth certificate is not there, period.

    Obama is not who you think he is.

  74. KM says:

    @Raider :

    THEN GO ARREST HIM!!

    Go on. March thy ass down to DC and do a citizen’s arrest. Or get your Sheriff to do so. If you have the evidence of a crime, go for it. You have it, right? Solid, undeniable legal proof? Then rustle up a posse and go do your duty as an American and a Patriot. Jurisdiction be damned, go save the country!!!!

    We will await your trial as this evening’s entertainment. I’ll bring the popcorn.

  75. CB says:

    Stop feeding the trolls.

  76. gVOR08 says:

    @Stormy Dragon: Seems a considerable distortion of what I said, which was that the GOPs are trying a stupid political tactic and most of the country will see through it, except the GOP base, who I do think fall into the Crazification Factor. You brought up disdain for people losing their income, I said nothing like that. If people losing income is your big concern why aren’t you after the 20 or 30 or whatever TP congressmen who are driving this stupid shutdown.

  77. mantis says:

    @CB:

    Stop feeding the trolls.

    Seconded.

  78. Matt Bernius says:

    @Raider:

    Arizona law enforcement and many other people, have proven that the document is fraudulent.

    Citation please to the news story of the century.

    Oh wait, it’s coming out of your ass… please don’t share that.

  79. grumpy realist says:

    @Raider: Ok, guys–we must be the focus of a Comp Sci student hacking us. No human could be this stupid and manage to operate a computer. In fact, I’m surprised he would know how to breathe.

  80. OzarkHillbilly says:

    @grumpy realist:

    In fact, I’m surprised he would know how to breathe.

    He doesn’t. He lives in an iron lung.

  81. RaflW says:

    So, basically, we’re just looking at both sides making moves that they think will enhance their political positions while not actually accomplishing anything that will resolve either of the two crises that the government is facing this month.

    Argh, This fundamentally misunderstands the situation. I’m not hyperventilating quite as much as Andrew Sullivan, but I agree with his basic premise that the Democrats cannot negotiate or ‘make moves.’ If they do, then the die is cast, and any law that an out party dislikes, but said party retains even a narrow majority in one chamber, we’ll see nullification attempt after nullification attempt and plenty o shut downs and brinkmanship.

    Even if Reid, Pelosi and Obama maintain excellent discipline and the GOp finally collapses on this, the risk of more hostage-taking exists, though the price will be better known for a while.

    But if the Dems negotiate anything other than a CR that leaves ACA alone, and a straight-up vote on the debt limit, well then the nation will go a major step-change deeper into ungovernability.
    So, really, there’s no both sides need to talk/negotiate/deal. NO. The cost to democracy of that faux-centrist, false-equivalence is extreme.

  82. OzarkHillbilly says:

    @Raider:

    Do you think the evidence proving that the white house released long form Obama birth certificate on 4/27/11, was a forgery, isn’t real?

    Yes I do. And for the record? Joe Arpaio sure has purty lips. I’ll bet he squeeeeeeels like a pig.

    Tuffest cop in America my ass… I know 3 or 4 dozen, no hundreds, of cops in St Lou tuffer that that pussy mf’er.