amen honey
now in my NYC hood
the entire bar crowd spends all their time outside smoking
so its like an obstacle course to get around them
and the apartments above have to leave their windows
shut
plus bar business went way the hell down

i think smokers deserve rights too
and there should be at least a smoking section in bars
or the bars themselves and their employees
should be able to decide whether they want to be a smoking or a non smoking bar
shit
everyone deserves a break
not just non smokers
and im a one time smoker
turned non smoker

I must disagree entriely with Rossi and differ slightly with you James. I agree that it should be up to the bar owner. However, they should not be able to pretend that there is any such thing as a "non-smoking" section. If they're going to allow smoking, they should be forced to allow it throughout their establishment, because that's what's happening to the smoke anyway. That is the ordinance we have in the City of Prattville and it has worked extremely well. I'll be interested to see how the UK ban plays out, but I have a feeling it will not go well.

The UK Government has subsequently denied this story.

Kristopher, reasonable people do not demand perfection.

A close approximation of "perfection" would be a situation that permitted bars and restaurants to decide whether they wanted to be "smoking" or "non-smoking". No penalties, no preferences, no matter the decision, beyond the penalties and preferences of the marketplace.

Choose a clientele, choose a staff, choose a menu that goes with your decision and leave it to the customers to decide.

'Tony Blair considering the initiative a so-called "legacy issue" which will define his premiership'

Wow! Banning outdoor smoking will define his term as PM. Sort of like building the pyramids only on a little more intrusive.

There is no state-wide ban on smoking in Maryland. Some localities have a ban, but not the whole state. If there is a ban, then every bar in Baltimore is in violation.

Chris: It must just be the adjacent counties to DC.

The smoking ban in restaurants and bars in Boston has been a huge success. People who stopped going out because of the smoke love it, the staff love it, the bands love it.

The smokers in the place we go to say they love it cause it makes you get up and walk outside every once in a while, instead of just sitting there drinking and smoking forever, getting moldy. They hang together outside for a while, then bop back in and have another beer. Smokers have created a whole secondary scene outside the bars.

Plus business has gone up, not down, as some predicted. A very few of the hardcore who opposed it all along still object, but the numbers--and nearly everyone else--disagree.

I play all the time at a bar that was the smokiest Irish bar this side of the Atlantic, and business has BOOMED since they made the smokers step outside. You couldn't freaking breath in there before.

If smoking just made some people nauseous it would be a non-issue. But it is a major economic debilitator since it causes terminal diseases and hospitals are not allowed to refuse treatment to those who cannot afford it. Ultimately it's the governments that end up bearing this burden, as with every other kind of drug addiction.

Do any of you really want the tobacco industry to thrive on sucking the life out of people and their social institutions?

Smokers deserve rights. Sure. So do cokeheads and tweakers. They have the same rights as every other citizen. But let's get this straight: granting special privileges to them on the basis of chemical dependency is ludicrous. And nobody has the right to pursue their pleasure at the expense of the health of others.